#1 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Counter-arguments for the naysayers

Almost everywhere when the subject topic of Immortality is brought up plenty of sources would be against the idea. Well we could be different, maybe living forever and the inability to die is a great state of being. People often side with religion that it is bad, some would use the justification of seeing people die, others use loneliness as an excuse. Common folk making lists of why people should not wan to live forever I say screw them, and the idea of being forever is simply wonderful. Some of us wanted more time to enjoy what the world has to offer, some of us do not want to die yet, while others simply wish to spend eternity on something that they love to do. Maybe it is adventure, I mean when you literally have all the time in the world at your disposal there isn't much that cannot be accomplished. So why do you like the idea of being immortal?

Different Kinds of Immortality

The TV Tropes Wiki uses the following categories:

  • Type I: Perfect Immortality: The character is immune to all harm, doesn't age, doesn't need to eat.
  • Type II: Undying: Immune to aging and disease, but can still be killed.
  • Type III: Regenerative: The character doesn't age, and heals quickly from any wound that doesn't kill them, but may die to sudden severe trauma. In some cases (think vampire), it takes specific types of injury to do them in.
  • Type IV: Resurrective: The character can die - or so it seems. They'll either grow a new body or transfer their consciousness to one that's already waiting.
  • Type V: Undead: Typically overlaps with Type II or Type III, but ghosts overlap with Type I. May or may not be creepy.
  • Type VI: Age Without Youth: The character cannot die, but shows their age. Could be said that this is immortality without the Required Secondary Powers.
  • Type VII: External: Immortality granted by a deal with the devil, demonic possession, soul jar or other Applied Phlebotinum. As such may be vulnerable to things that wouldn't harm a normal person, such as antimagic or an exorcism.
  • Type VIII: Legacy: The character can die, but their reputation or bloodline lives on. Think Dread Pirate Roberts.
  • Type IX: Parasitic: Like Type IV, except you force your mind into the body of some unsuspecting victim, and generally do so before the old body wears out.
  • Type X: Vampiric: The character is immortal, as long as they feed off the life-force of others.
  • Type 0: Non Diegetic: The character can't die because the author wouldn't dream of killing them off.

Neat read(s) about the subject

  1. http://www.andrewmbailey.com/jmf/Immortality.pdf
  2. http://www.maxmore.com/mythofstagnation.htm
  3. http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs/creative/writing/immortality.html
  4. http://strangeandhappy.com/2010/04/24/four-arguments-for-immortality/
  5. http://vincentwoo.com/2011/04/30/arguing-for-immortality/

Start here...

#2 Posted by Aiden Cross (15569 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't. I like the thought of living longer or time travel, but immortality? No thank you.

#3 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (22271 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, living forever is great. Until you do everything that can be done and eventually get bored and wanting to end it sooner or later. Not to mention that if you don't outlive the people you love, you end up bored to tears with the presence of other immortals. I think what people prefer is a very long life rather than a eternal one, so that you can perform everything you want that you wouldn't in a normal lifetime and when you are done, you can leave this world at peace.

#4 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

nahhhhhhhhh

#5 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull:
stick to the topic >.>

oh and why

@dragonborn_ct:

  • How would you get bored from your own perspective?
  • So your version of a good immortality is longevity?

@aiden_cross: Actually Immortality and time travel would be the best combination possible

#6 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: I didn't avoid the topic, i sad nah to being immortal, and thats because the idea of existing forever scares me.

#7 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@theacidskull: oh, interesting and do elaborate (curious here)

Well for one thing, it scares to watch everyone around live their life, settle down, and then eventually pass away, while i'm stuck, always the same, never changing, seeing others come and go, while i'm always stuck.

It's heart wrenching you know? and i get the feeling that i'm left out of the loop, unable to communicate with anyone.

#9 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Just like relationships, we all have to learn to move along

EDIT: posted types of immortality on OP

#10 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (22271 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: That is a eventual face that every one cursed with immortality face sooner or later.

1. For the first few years, you get to see more than any human ever could. You travel around the world, master every martial arts imaginable, learn quantum physics and stuff like that. You do everything that the world has to offer, and eventually there is nothing else left to do and you have no other reason to keep living anymore. And yet you keep going on. You get tired of the companies of everyone since you can't stand seeing they growing old and dying while you keep young, or having to suffer the company of other immortals until the end of time.

2. Yes, or alternatively, being ageless, immune to the ravages of time but still being able to be killed by mortal means like the elves in Lord of the Rings.

#11 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (22271 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that I see you are using TV Tropes terms, the best one out of these is probably Type II.

#12 Edited by Deep_Six (142 posts) - - Show Bio

Immortality would be cool, with like super saiyan powers. I wouldn't mind to be honest, so long as I could traverse the universe at light speeds.

#13 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@dragonborn_ct:

  1. The thing is that the development of the world and the human race is exceedingly fast, even if you have immortality it is doubtful that you will earn every single whisper of information from every speck of dust on earth. In fact Information tends to get lost, being an archaeologist can be fun. Also there are other worlds, besides like relationships people make new friends. Death is a common thing in the world, you are merely above the rest.
  2. So immortal unless killed? sweet deal

check the types

#14 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that I see you are using TV Tropes terms, the best one out of these is probably Type II.

Like an elf, personally I find the parasitic type interesting

@deep_six said:

Immortality would be cool, with like super saiyan powers. I wouldn't mind to be honest, so long as I could traverse the universe at light speeds.

What kind would you like?

#15 Posted by Deep_Six (142 posts) - - Show Bio

I sometimes wonder if Type IV is what happens when you pass on. If that's the case, I'd like to be buried in front of a huge badass tree so when I reincarnate within it(?) I can overlook all the other puny trees and plants.

#16 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@theacidskull: Just like relationships, we all have to learn to move along

EDIT: posted types of immortality on OP

No, a person can deal with a death or two but when you see this go on for a long time, you won't be able to make friends, because eventually they will die. and i don't want to be the only one left. you can't Learn to move on.

Immortality sucks

#17 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Eventually you will get used to it, plus there are other immortals

@deep_six said:

I sometimes wonder if Type IV is what happens when you pass on. If that's the case, I'd like to be buried in front of a huge badass tree so when I reincarnate within it(?) I can overlook all the other puny trees and plants.

That is new, what kind of tree?

#18 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't want to live forever or stay young. I want to grow old with my significant other someplace in Florida where we can retire and live off of tapioca and smell like moth balls in peace.

#19 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: I'd rather die then gets use to something like that, i don't want to be an emotionless drone.

#20 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (22271 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@dragonborn_ct:

  1. The thing is that the development of the world and the human race is exceedingly fast, even if you have immortality it is doubtful that you will earn every single whisper of information from every speck of dust on earth. In fact Information tends to get lost, being an archaeologist can be fun. Also there are other worlds, besides like relationships people make new friends. Death is a common thing in the world, you are merely above the rest.

I don't think I would like to become this detached from the rest of the world like that. Its only a matter of time before we become just like Vandal Savage...

@nerx said:

@theacidskull: Just like relationships, we all have to learn to move along

EDIT: posted types of immortality on OP

No, a person can deal with a death or two but when you see this go on for a long time, you won't be able to make friends, because eventually they will die. and i don't want to be the only one left. you can't Learn to move on.

Immortality sucks

Definitely agree.

#21 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@nlghtcrawler: So which type or immortality do you dislike most and which of them do you like the most?

@theacidskull:

You would get new emotional attachments or find love elsewhere

#22 Edited by Deep_Six (142 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@theacidskull: Eventually you will get used to it, plus there are other immortals

@deep_six said:

I sometimes wonder if Type IV is what happens when you pass on. If that's the case, I'd like to be buried in front of a huge badass tree so when I reincarnate within it(?) I can overlook all the other puny trees and plants.

That is new, what kind of tree?

lol jk and to answer your earlier question a Type IV. I'd like to live out my life than lay to rest. If I'm to come back in any form I hope it is as an angel on a higher plane of existence and invisible to mortal eyes when visiting inhabited planets.

#23 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@dragonborn_ct:

I don't think I would like to become this detached from the rest of the world like that. Its only a matter of time before we become just like Vandal Savage...

True rulers of the world

Definitely agree.

you would be surprised what we can be desensitized to, violence used to be shocking. Now mundane.

#24 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18051 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't want to be immortal,its odd that I/we think mortality is a curse if for the fact our lives are too short,yet at the same immortality is also a curse because we would just live for too long. And I have already seen some of my family members pass away if I were immortal Id hate to see how many people close to me I could loose.

So I would pass on that if not for any other reason that.

Id like our life times to last maybe about two hundred years or so just a longer lifespan but nothing too long.

#25 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@deep_six:

lol jk and to answer your earlier question a Type IV. I'd like to live out my life than lay to rest. If I'm to come back in any form I hope it is as an angel on a higher plane of existence and invisible to mortal eyes when visiting inhabited planets.

True, since a 'merely' human existence can get tedious, for me I want to be immortal with a time machine. Travel with the prophets ,and move history as I please. Becoming a secret ruler of the world.

#26 Edited by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: If I had to choose a favorite it would probably be Regenerative because a solid healing factor would be the only cool thing out of getting to live forever. My least favorite are the last few because living forever at the sake of another sounds like a sh*tty way to live.

#27 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@nlghtcrawler: So which type or immortality do you dislike most and which of them do you like the most?

@theacidskull:

You would get new emotional attachments or find love elsewhere

no, you won't , because death will mean nothing to you, and you won't find love if others aren't immortals too, and thats a big IF.

#28 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrdecepticonleader:

Id like our life times to last maybe about two hundred years or so just a longer lifespan but nothing too long.

So a form of longevity then, what about immortality by legacy?

@nlghtcrawler:

Would you share regenerative with your significant other?

#30 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: and how would i know if someone else is immortal? do i ask?

living forever is terrible, and i wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy

#32 Edited by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: If that is what they wanted then of course. I would actually hope that they would. Staying young while your family and loved ones aged would be literal hell. You would watch them die one after the other after getting to know them for an entire lifetime.

#33 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Live long enough to find one, or find yourself surviving an accident together

plus there are different 'kinds' of immortality

#34 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@nlghtcrawler:

If that is what they wanted then of course.

sounds cute

You would watch them die one after the other after getting to know them for an entire lifetime.

After the first few centuries they will seem far away, distant memories

#35 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio
@nerx said:

@theacidskull: Live long enough to find one, or find yourself surviving an accident together

plus there are different 'kinds' of immortality

So what? What difference does i make if i live forever this way or that way? Immortal is still immortal

#36 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Nope, some forms of immortality is not 'true' immortality per-se

#37 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@theacidskull: Nope, some forms of immortality is not 'true' immortality per-se

if you can still be killed you're not really immortal, it just takes more effort to die, and to me killing someone else for my life sucks even more.

#38 Edited by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@nlghtcrawler:

If that is what they wanted then of course.

sounds cute

You would watch them die one after the other after getting to know them for an entire lifetime.

After the first few centuries they will seem far away, distant memories

But what about their children and their children's children. Soon it's a never ending circle of pain and death until I finally snap and decide to become a tree. I'll just stand there with my tree self and refuse to acknowledge anybody because I would be an immortal person tree and that is what is expected of an immortal person tree to do.

#39 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@nlghtcrawler: That is an interesting view point, so your Ideal is to reincarnate as a tree?

@theacidskull:

If you forget your morals it would be fun

#40 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: nope, last thing i want to do is cause others pain.

#41 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: That mindset is the problem of why you can't enjoy it. At least from your perspective, as if morality holds you back.

#42 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: No.. I'll still be a human. Just a crazy dude pretending to be a tree.

#43 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@nlghtcrawler: That seems awesome actually

If i were immortal I would try to ride across the ocean of stars

#44 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@theacidskull: That mindset is the problem of why you can't enjoy it. At least from your perspective, as if morality holds you back.

now you just added another reason to WHY not to like immorality.

#45 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: You mean just float aimlessly in space? Sounds terrifying.

#46 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull:
The eternal soldier, dat blackwater publicity

@nlghtcrawler: Not that, build a spaceship and travel to far away planets to search for life.

#47 Edited by Dragonborn_CT (22271 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: That seems a lot of fun to you in the beginning, but trust me, sooner or later you will wish for death's release. Valar Morgullis.

#48 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@dragonborn_ct: Or be friends with the reaper once you transcend the human barriers

#49 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@dragonborn_ct: Or be friends with the reaper once you transcend the human barriers

or the eternal psycho.

#50 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2899 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: That actually sounds pretty cool. I would probably take a really big craft with me and learn all I can about running the spaceship before going though. It would suck so bad if it crashed on Neptune or something.