Greatest boxer to ever live?

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BiteMe-Fanboy

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#1  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy

Most people will say Muhammed Ali or Mike Tyson. Forget them. They do not compare to this guy. He is no doubt the best boxer to ever live. And I can say that might just be a fact. Ali and Tyson have nothing on this guy:
John L. Sullivan. 

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http://www.badassoftheweek.com/sully.html  
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/John_L._Sullivan
read for an interesting bio. or look him up on wikipedia.
 
Once beat a guy in a bareknuckle boxing match in the 75th round. yes, 75TH round.
Screw boxing gloves. These guys boxed bareknuckled. And this guy went 75 rounds. And won.
 
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RedheadedAtrocitus

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#2  Edited By RedheadedAtrocitus

One of the best. Not the best I would think, because in my opinion the best boxer is the one that held a heavyweight title for the longest time. And in terms of title longevity, only one boxer has held a heavyweight title of any size (world or otherwise), longer than any other.  And that man was Jack Broughton, who was the English bareknuckle heavyweight champion from 1734 to 1750.   

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turoksonofstone

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#3  Edited By turoksonofstone
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BiteMe-Fanboy

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#4  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy

Sorry. Ali has NOTHING against bareknuckled boxers. Sullivan would OWN him.
 
Just imagine 75 rounds of beating the sh*t out of each other bareknuckled. I know it hurts to get hit with boxing gloves, but bareknuckled is a different story. And any man who can go 75 rounds of beatin the hell out of each other bareknuckled is better than any gloved boxer.

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turoksonofstone

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#5  Edited By turoksonofstone
@BiteMe-Fanboy said:
Sorry. Ali has NOTHING against bareknuckled boxers. Sullivan would OWN him.
Doubt it. really I'd just send this guy for any bare-knuckle challenges.. 
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turoksonofstone

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#6  Edited By turoksonofstone

That's Jack Johnson BTW.

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mikethekiller

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#7  Edited By mikethekiller
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RedheadedAtrocitus

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#8  Edited By RedheadedAtrocitus
@BiteMe-Fanboy: Jack Johnson, World Heavyweight Champ from 1908-1915...and an entirely overrated champion at that. A middleweight once knocked him flat on his bum actually lol.
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#9  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy
@turoksonofstone said:
@BiteMe-Fanboy said:
Sorry. Ali has NOTHING against bareknuckled boxers. Sullivan would OWN him.
Doubt it. really I'd just send this guy for any bare-knuckle challenges.. 
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Def. a badass. But idk man. Sullivan I think could take him. 75 roads of bareknuckled boxing and beating the hell out of each other isnt a fact you need to ignore.  If any man can take a beating like that, he is def. a badass that could prob. own almost anyone.
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turoksonofstone

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#10  Edited By turoksonofstone
@RedheadedAtrocitus said:
@BiteMe-Fanboy: Jack Johnson, World Heavyweight Champ from 1908-1915...and an entirely overrated champion at that. A middleweight once knocked him flat on his bum actually lol.
Meh, He'd eat these other guys in his prime the first Black Heavyweight Champion, due to racism he had to wait until after his prime to even receive a shot. Non-integrated Eras don't have a greatest.
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#11  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy
@mikethekiller said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_Ray_Robinson

having gloves on is alot different than fighting bareknuckled. and going 75 rounds and winning in a bareknuckled fight is def. more badass and hardcore than a gloved fight.
 
so no, i doubt it.
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turoksonofstone

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#12  Edited By turoksonofstone

Obviously Sullivan wasn't human, Men of the past were made of sterner stuff.

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Wise Son

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#13  Edited By Wise Son
How long were the rounds? How many punches were thrown? Did they count it as a KO if the other person was out on their feet? So many variables there to make a "solid" assumption. 
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#14  Edited By mikethekiller
@RedheadedAtrocitus: and after that Johnson got up and proceeded to Ketchel's teeth out.
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#15  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy
@turoksonofstone said:
Obviously Sullivan wasn't human, Men of the past were made of sterner stuff.
QFT.
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mikethekiller

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#16  Edited By mikethekiller
@BiteMe-Fanboy: Are you an avid boxing fan?
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superojsimpson

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#17  Edited By superojsimpson

who the hell is that guy? you must be a poor relative or somting.

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BiteMe-Fanboy

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#18  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy
@Wise Son said:
How long were the rounds? How many punches were thrown? Did they count it as a KO if the other person was out on their feet? So many variables there to make a "solid" assumption. 
Even if the rounds were one minute long. Thats still one hour and 15 minutes of fighting. BARE KNUCKLED.
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turoksonofstone

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#19  Edited By turoksonofstone
@BiteMe-Fanboy:  
75 rounds how long were the rounds? These guys were poor and fought with a different set of sensibilities. What was Sullivan's bare-knuckle record?
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superojsimpson

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#20  Edited By superojsimpson

anyways I think the best boxer ever is either Manny Pacquiao Pacman of Mike Tyson.

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turoksonofstone

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#21  Edited By turoksonofstone
@superojsimpson said:
anyways I think the best boxer ever is either Manny Pacquiao Pacman of Mike Tyson.
lol.
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mikethekiller

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#22  Edited By mikethekiller

And who to say a fight sugar ray would even go 75 rounds. By the 1950's and 60's people knew things about boxing that hadn't even been comprehended back then.

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#23  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy
@turoksonofstone said:
@BiteMe-Fanboy:  75 rounds how long were the rounds? These guys were poor and fought with a different set of sensibilities. What was Sullivan's bare-knuckle record?
His record was 38 wins, 32 KOs, 6 decision. 1 loss. 2 draws and one no contest
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turoksonofstone

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#24  Edited By turoksonofstone
@BiteMe-Fanboy said:
@turoksonofstone said:
@BiteMe-Fanboy:  75 rounds how long were the rounds? These guys were poor and fought with a different set of sensibilities. What was Sullivan's bare-knuckle record?
His record was 38 wins, 32 KOs, 6 decision. 1 loss. 2 draws and one no contest
Perhaps, He's one of the best Bare-Knuckle Fighters, but this era isn't comparable to even early organized fights. be real.
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#25  Edited By mikethekiller

Ray Robinson was 173-19-6-2NC with 108 KO's

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BiteMe-Fanboy

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#26  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy

 
I think Sullivan is indeed one of the greatest. Whether  he can defeat Ali, Robinson, Tyson, we will never know. Bare knuckled boxing is brutal. Esp. to go up to 6 hours of beating the hell out of each other. And ofcoarse as I stated, Sullivan winning a 75 round fight.
But I also read that boxing gloves adds power and force to a punch, allowing the boxer to hit harder, and at times, more often.
So really it's really difficult to tell who is indeed the 'best'. But a man like Sullivan def. can be one to be considered in the 'argument' on who's the best boxer.
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#27  Edited By mikethekiller

He was probably greatest of that era.

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#28  Edited By superojsimpson

he would get his ass kicked if he wore to fight people in this era. no seriously, he will get his ass kicked. since you know, he's already dead and all that.

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B'Town

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#29  Edited By B'Town

@turoksonofstone said:

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Oh, yeah. This. Plus he made people smile and laugh.

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RedheadedAtrocitus

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#30  Edited By RedheadedAtrocitus
@turoksonofstone:   Not entirely true. What of Tom Molineaux, one of America's first heavyweight champions? Bill Richmond? Peter "Black Prince" Jackson? Those were some prominent African-American boxers far before Jack Johnson's time who all had major bouts and title fights in and before their prime and were either great or defeated fair and square. Yes, Johnson was held back, just like many others though in the time in which he fought.  Besides his true equal of the day was Jim Jeffries and that match was a joke because the latter was WELL past his prime and sick entering that 'great white hope' match.  Not saying Johnson wasn't a great fighter, but just like many sports historians have agreed, I tend to think his greatness was just a little on the exaggerated side. 
 
@mikethekiller: Yes you are right, Johnson went on to win the match and win hard, but regardless, Johnson SHOULD NOT have been knocked even off of his feet considering he outweighed Ketchel by at least 47 pounds, had a fist reach of well over 4 inches on that of Ketchel and was taller by about 3 and 1/2 inches.  Let the rumors go as one may...Ketchel gave Johnson a sucker punch, that Johnson had no idea it was coming. Fact is, both boxers agreed to go all the rounds and make it an interesting fight to make sure more people watched the match and paid to see more fights. Johnson deviated from the agreed rules and had already bloodied Ketchel, so in all fairness Ketchel only gave what he received, and apparently it was even more than Johnson could take.  Winning or not...a heavyweight should feel embarassed at being knocked over by a mere middleweight. Just saying.
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#31  Edited By Chaos Prime

Henry Armstrong 

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#32  Edited By cyberninja
@turoksonofstone said:
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This 
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#33  Edited By King_Saturn
John L. Sullivan was a Bareknuckle Brawler... he was not really as a Pro Boxer in the Modern Era... he may have fought over 70 rounds against some opponents... but that was a totally different era of fighting... 
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#34  Edited By TheGoldenOne
@cyberninja said:
@turoksonofstone said:
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This 
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