Government: "You May Not Wear Clothing That Shows USA Flag...

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Cort

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#1  Edited By Cort

Because It Might Tempt Those Who Hate America Toward Violence...!"

Government logic has become so absurd, its OBSCENE!

Morgan Hill Students Lose Lawsuit Over Right To Wear Flag

"MORGAN HILL (CBS SF) – The families several high school students who sued the Morgan Hill Unified School District for violating their free speech rights have lost their case.

On Cinco De Mayo, 2010, students at Live Oak High School were told to remove shirts, hats and other clothing bearing the American flagfor fear that the articles would incite violence on campus.

The former principal told the boys to turn the shirts inside-out or go home. When the refused, the were asked to leave campus.

Parents claim that the demand violated the students’ first and fourteenth amendment rights.

A federal court ruled that Live Oak has the right to restrict a student’s free speech when it is likely to cause a substantial disruption.

The plaintiffs were John and Dianna Dariano, parents of Matt Dariano; Kurt and Julie Ann Fagerstrom, parents of Dominic Maciell; and Kendall and Joy Jones on behalf of Daniel Galli. The group was seeking damages including changing school policies to clearly state students’ rights, and reimbursement lawyer fees."

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/11/morgan-hill-students-lose-lawsuit-over-right-to-wear-flag/

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joshmightbe

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#2  Edited By joshmightbe

so you can wear rebel flags and swastikas and be protected under the first amendment but you can't wear an American flag now? I don't personally own any patriotic clothing but you should be allowed to wear it if you choose to

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Dracade102

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#3  Edited By Dracade102

I'm wearing my Captain America t-shirt right now ~ I suspect that the Red Skull may be responsible for this...

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joshmightbe

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#4  Edited By joshmightbe

Did I somehow miss the part about us having freedom of expression unless people don't agree with it part of the first amendment cause I've read it several times and there didn't seem to be any qualifiers in there

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gravitypress

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#5  Edited By gravitypress

Why does this seem like our government wants us to hate them?

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Larkin1388

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#6  Edited By Larkin1388

This is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. They say to love you country but can't wear shirts flying our flag. Stupid if you ask me.

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owie

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#8  Edited By owie  Moderator

It's true that schools have a crazy legal degree of power to regulate things that otherwise fall under the first amendment, but this is an amazingly stupid subject for them to try to control.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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#10  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous

They did they same in England, you couldn't fly the Union Flag because it's some how racist.

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King_Saturn

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#11  Edited By King_Saturn
well aint this something
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joshmightbe

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#12  Edited By joshmightbe

I remember when my high school tried to ban the confederate flag from our school people freaked about the violation of free expression so why is that flag protected but not the American flag

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one_upper

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#13  Edited By one_upper

This has to be a joke.

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Whisper_

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#14  Edited By Whisper_

How utterly ridiculous.

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one_upper

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#15  Edited By one_upper

The irony that Neo-Nazi's may march through a neighborhood of Jewish Holocaust survivors and relatives in the name of the first amendment, but our children can't wear their own flag.

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cyberninja

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#16  Edited By cyberninja

I knew few guys in my High School who use to wear USA shirts only on Cinco De Maya and shout USA whenever they see someone of Mexican descent, and when they were told to not be jerks they too said "this is America, we have freedom of expression"( to a point where the principal had to take actions) I guess those guys were right to some extent. What they didn't know is that freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from consequences or the right to be racist.

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turoksonofstone

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#17  Edited By turoksonofstone

..

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Fatal

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#18  Edited By Fatal

I don't see how this is really newsworthy.

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unopen7639

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#19  Edited By unopen7639

this is messed up.

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ssejllenrad

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#20  Edited By ssejllenrad

Apollo Creed, Rocky Balboa and Butterbean should go to jail!!!!! So should Don Frye!

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jordama

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#21  Edited By jordama

Hmmm...

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CATPANEXE

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#22  Edited By CATPANEXE

I was suspended form High School once for showing up wearing nothing but one of the school flags, lmao. *^.^*

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OmegaDynasty

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#23  Edited By OmegaDynasty

Well, I remember this happening twice before.  
One was when two kids wore there America shirts during Cinco De Mayo of course this took place in a school in California.  
Kids were expelled. 

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nefarious

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#24  Edited By nefarious

Great.

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sesquipedalophobe

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I think some Americans wear flaggy clothing so they won't forget which country they're from.

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ssejllenrad

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#26  Edited By ssejllenrad

@CATPANEXE said:

I was suspended form High School once for showing up wearing nothing but one of the school flags, lmao. *^.^*

Suspension for a memorable action? Good trade! :D

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cyberninja

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#27  Edited By cyberninja
@Dernman said:
@cyberninja said:

I knew few guys in my High School who use to wear USA shirts only on Cinco De Maya and shout USA whenever they see someone of Mexican descent, and when they were told to not be jerks they too said "this is America, we have freedom of expression"( to a point where the principal had to take actions) I guess those guys were right to some extent. What they didn't know is that freedom of expression doesn't mean freedom from consequences or the right to be racist.

I'm going to disagree with you on something.  Maybe it's just your wording I don't know but I expect you will disagree with me. So I ask that we don't get into a big debate over it.
Freedom of Expression does and should mean freedom from consequences when it comes from the government and in certain cases people or it's not freedom. 
 
If the kids were simply wearing the shirt and saying USA then that would be a case of freedom of expression that they were pissing on but if they were wearing the shirt and getting up in people's faces shouting that would not be a case of freedom of expression that would be case of harassment.
I will try to not get into big debate too, so I will say this, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you so some extent. That being said, everything has consequences, you can not just shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and expect nothing to happen. ( I hope you understand my wording) 
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joshmightbe

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#28  Edited By joshmightbe

@cyberninja: I've seen people wearing Mexican flags on the 4th of July should they be forced to take those flags off?

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cyberninja

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#29  Edited By cyberninja
@joshmightbe said:

@cyberninja: I've seen people wearing Mexican flags on the 4th of July should they be forced to take those flags off?

Were they disturbing the peace?
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dernman

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#30  Edited By dernman
@cyberninja said:
@Dernman said: 
I will try to not get into big debate too, so I will say this, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you so some extent. That being said, everything has consequences, you can not just shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and expect nothing to happen. ( I hope you understand my wording) 
I believe it was yelling fire in a theater when there isn't a fire. But anyway is yelling fire really a case of freedom of expression?   What is being expressed when yelling fire? There is no belief being suppressed?   I just think a lot of people mix up the grounds that  freedom of expression covers.  
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Mortein

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#31  Edited By Mortein

here in Croatia, you may wear clothing that shows USA flag.

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Chaos Burn

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#32  Edited By Chaos Burn

Sounds like if you're proud to be an American, you better go do it somewhere other than America....

Well, us in the UK have had trouble with these t-shirts recently

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joshmightbe

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#33  Edited By joshmightbe

@cyberninja: no but I don't see how simply wearing an American flag on Cinco de Mayo would be any more disruptive than wearing a Mexican flag on the forth of July, Don't get me wrong I personally don't think anyone should be able to tell you not to wear what ever you like I'm just saying you can't say one group isn't allowed to do something while allowing another group to do the exact same thing

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cyberninja

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#34  Edited By cyberninja

@joshmightbe said:

@cyberninja: no but I don't see how simply wearing an American flag on Cinco de Mayo would be any more disruptive than wearing a Mexican flag on the forth of July, Don't get me wrong I personally don't think anyone should be able to tell you not to wear what ever you like I'm just saying you can't say one group isn't allowed to do something while allowing another group to do the exact same thing

I agree with you but do you really think that's all there is to the story and that only the shirt got them into trouble so big that the principal had to take actions?

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FadeToBlackBolt

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#35  Edited By FadeToBlackBolt

Oh USA, you so silly. 

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biggkeem89

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#36  Edited By biggkeem89

It's stupid that this is an issue. People should have the right to wear the flag if they wanted to, but with that being said, technically noone is supposed to wear the flag. Historically, wearing the flag was a form of disrespect because it could come in contact with unclean places or the ground, which is considered disrespectful

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cyberninja

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#37  Edited By cyberninja

@Dernman said:

@cyberninja said:
@Dernman said:
I will try to not get into big debate too, so I will say this, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you so some extent. That being said, everything has consequences, you can not just shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and expect nothing to happen. ( I hope you understand my wording)
I believe it was yelling fire in a theater when there isn't a fire. But anyway is yelling fire really a case of freedom of expression? What is being expressed when yelling fire? There is no belief being suppressed? I just think a lot of people mix up the grounds that freedom of expression covers.

The answer to all your questions depends on if you think the people in THIS video are expressing freedom of speech or something else.

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dernman

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#38  Edited By dernman
@cyberninja said:

@Dernman said:

@cyberninja said:
@Dernman said:
I will try to not get into big debate too, so I will say this, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you so some extent. That being said, everything has consequences, you can not just shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and expect nothing to happen. ( I hope you understand my wording)
I believe it was yelling fire in a theater when there isn't a fire. But anyway is yelling fire really a case of freedom of expression? What is being expressed when yelling fire? There is no belief being suppressed? I just think a lot of people mix up the grounds that freedom of expression covers.

The answer to all your questions depends on if you think the people in THIS video are expressing freedom of speech or something else.

Does it suck what they are doing. Yes but freedom of speech/expression wasn't just designed to protect speech you like.  It was designed to protect even the speech you don't.  Would you have feel the same if it was a protest against say a Nambla meeting?    I know I wouldn't.    
Switch the protest  with something you agree with and you would have different outlook on the protest.   
Personally when I see vids of protests I rarely see it as something good. Even when it is something I agree on but most people live in a double standard.   
If you truly believe in freedom of speech what the issue should be not whether they get to do it but what is the proper way to do it without crossing the line into something else.. 
 Freedom of Speech/expression is actually a lot harder thing to live by then people generally believe. I have trouble myself living by it because there is a lot of people out there that I would love to shut up.
  
I think we agree on a lot of the subject. It's just the finer points that we diverge.
Sorry looks like this is turning into a debate. :/   I actually wrote a really big thing but deleted it because we agreed not to go there. 
I'll give you the last word so we can end it. :p
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cyberninja

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#39  Edited By cyberninja

@Dernman said:

@cyberninja said:

@Dernman said:

@cyberninja said:
@Dernman said:
I will try to not get into big debate too, so I will say this, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you so some extent. That being said, everything has consequences, you can not just shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and expect nothing to happen. ( I hope you understand my wording)
I believe it was yelling fire in a theater when there isn't a fire. But anyway is yelling fire really a case of freedom of expression? What is being expressed when yelling fire? There is no belief being suppressed? I just think a lot of people mix up the grounds that freedom of expression covers.

The answer to all your questions depends on if you think the people in THIS video are expressing freedom of speech or something else.

Does it suck what they are doing. Yes but freedom of speech/expression wasn't just designed to protect speech you like. It was designed to protect even the speech you don't. Would you have feel the same if it was a protest against say a Nambla meeting? I know I wouldn't. Switch the protest with something you agree with and you would have different outlook on the protest. Personally when I see vids of protests I rarely see it as something good. Even when it is something I agree on but most people live in a double standard. If you truly believe in freedom of speech what the issue should be not whether they get to do it but what is the proper way to do it without crossing the line into something else.. Freedom of Speech/expression is actually a lot harder thing to live by then people generally believe. I have trouble myself living by it because there is a lot of people out there that I would love to shut up. I think we agree on a lot of the subject. It's just the finer points that we diverge.Sorry looks like this is turning into a debate. :/ I actually wrote a really big thing but deleted it because we agreed not to go there. I'll give you the last word so we can end it. :p

I agree with you my friend and I shall have the last word by saying "f*ck politics".

*Cyber high-five*

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tensor

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#40  Edited By tensor

what has America come to that is the dumbest thing i have heard all year, to me America has just gotten soft that would never happen in china

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cyberninja

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#41  Edited By cyberninja

@tensor said:

what has America come to that is the dumbest thing i have heard all year, to me America has just gotten soft that would never happen in china

I see what you did there.

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Shamelesslysupportinaznballers

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@Dernman said:

@cyberninja said:
@Dernman said:
I will try to not get into big debate too, so I will say this, I understand what you are saying, and I agree with you so some extent. That being said, everything has consequences, you can not just shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater and expect nothing to happen. ( I hope you understand my wording)
I believe it was yelling fire in a theater when there isn't a fire. But anyway is yelling fire really a case of freedom of expression? What is being expressed when yelling fire? There is no belief being suppressed? I just think a lot of people mix up the grounds that freedom of expression covers.

I think a better example is seeing a group of fat kids in school and then wearing shirts and saying things to mock them for being fat. Is that freedom of speech? I guess so. What it also is is a form harassment or bullying and that's worthy of a principle's attention.

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BiteMe-Fanboy

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#43  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy

Don't go to that school.

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InnerVenom123

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#44  Edited By InnerVenom123

@cyberninja said:

@tensor said:

what has America come to that is the dumbest thing i have heard all year, to me America has just gotten soft that would never happen in china

I see what you did there.

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LMAO

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PowerHerc

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#45  Edited By PowerHerc

This is absurd, ridiculous and against the constitution. When will this stuff stop?

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Fatal

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#46  Edited By Fatal

I actually don't think this is that ridiculous at all. Stopping potential racial violence is good justification for limiting certain articles of clothing. It's not like the article is implying the government is saying nobody can wear patriotic clothing, because obviously that would be a violation of the constitution.
 
Schools, however, do have the right to limit what can and can't be worn on it's campus. The only issue I would have with this school is if the principle only banned clothing with American flags/insignias. It is entirely possible the school banned Mexican flags/insignias as well. Of course this is only an assumption, so I can be wrong.  As long as it equal and unbiased, I have no problem with it.
 
Another thing we don't know from this article is what these kids are like. It's entirely possibly that they were wearing the clothing they had just to spite those of Mexican ancestry. But again, they may not have been.  There is so little detail in this news story that it can just be a piece of biased journalism.
 
My point is, this isn't unconstitutional and it isn't even all that newsworthy. It seemed more to me like a school being a school and enforcing a rule that they put into effect.

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jeanlucpicard

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#47  Edited By jeanlucpicard

When you say don't, people do.

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Dracade102

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#48  Edited By Dracade102

America is ashamed of patriotism now. Is the Pledge of Allegiance banned from there too? You wouldn't want anything to be started up if someone's too lazy to stand up for twenty seconds a day there~

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isaac_clarke

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#49  Edited By isaac_clarke

Misleading thread title is misleading and apparently a ton of people are falling right into it.

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_Hawk_

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#50  Edited By _Hawk_

I think it's disrespectful to wear the flag anyways.