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#1 Edited by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio

George Martin is famous for his book series. I find his characters dull, and unrealistic. The dialogue is boring, and the characters are killed left and right for no reason ( for shock value). This show is not dark fantasy, but a Dark Medieval fiction. I find for example Hellsing, Deathnote are written perfect.

http://brenthartinger.com/2012/05/03/is-george-r-r-martin-is-the-best-worst-writer-of-all-time-or-the-worst-best-one/

http://www.sonsofsuicide.com/why-george-r-r-martin-is-a-terrible-writer/

http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2013/personal/three-reasons-why-game-of-thrones-is-overrated.html/

http://io9.com/is-the-game-of-thrones-tv-show-finally-going-off-the-ra-472067301

Death note

#2 Posted by joshmightbe (24882 posts) - - Show Bio

Everybody is entitled to their opinion

#3 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: He is running out of characters. If he was a good writer then do something-else to the characters then kill them.

#4 Posted by buttersdaman000 (9637 posts) - - Show Bio

Did you just watch the new southpark??

#5 Posted by judasnixon (6530 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by judasnixon (6530 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds familiar what does he write ?

#8 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@buttersdaman000 said:

Did you just watch the new southpark??

My thoughts exactly XD

Here is a wiener! Judge it by it's size? Rub it three times and it has a surprise!

#9 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10877 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725 said:

Sounds familiar what does he write ?

The source material for Game of Thrones

#10 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10877 posts) - - Show Bio

*yawn*

If you're gonna do this please give out some better examples and reasonsing.

#11 Posted by Guardiandevil83 (5527 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't even...

#12 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

Then you must hate Robert Kirkman

#13 Edited by judasnixon (6530 posts) - - Show Bio

#14 Posted by Stupid_People (1248 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else think of the new Southpark with him in it????

#15 Edited by danhimself (22495 posts) - - Show Bio

that is one of the best gifs ever! I lmao every time I see it

#16 Posted by RDClip (1129 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkadyred: You are entitled to your opinion. But I completely disagree.

I'm not an English professor, but Martin is a good writer in the technical sense. All major characters have arcs, the world stay dynamic with shifts in power among characters, every book has a clear plot breakdown and the structure of all his novels are well put together. He also has the huge challenge of balancing dozens of characters, many of whom are point-of-view characters.

ASOIAF is a complete deconstruction of the fantasy genre. What does that mean? Well, it means we take standard fiction tropes and characters, put them into a realistic world and see the result. Most fantasy is based on middle ages Europe, which sure as hell wasn't a safe place for anyone. If you were a person who values honour above all else, court politics would destroy you like they did Ned. If you are a person who dreams about a heroic princes and shining knights like Sansa, you will have your world shattered. Sure Martin's books are all depression inducing, but books like that are needed when so much of the genre is boring cookie-cutter bulls**t.

Martin's series doesn't take place in the real world, so it is not medieval fiction. There is still uses of fantasy features like dragons and magic, which I'm pretty sure did not exist in the real world during the middle ages. The story is based on a period of civil war in English history, that is where the connection to medieval fiction ends.

If you want to make comparisons to a series of novels, pick something in the same medium. If you want to make a better point you can compare it to other literary works of fantasy fiction. Don't randomly pick out a couple of anime to make your point. Always remember apples to apples oranges to oranges.

#17 Posted by BR_Havoc (1286 posts) - - Show Bio

Martin is a great writer it's hard to argue that he is bad when you look at the world he has created. His biggest issue in my opinion is he obsessed with not making things cliche he has said this many times in interviews and says that the reason he did the red wedding is because to have a son avenge his fallen father was cliche. My issue with that is now his writing have become predictable you know what you think or want to happen will not come to be it will go the darker route so it stays away from the fantasy stories that Martin considers cliche. So I feel many peoples issues with Martin is not his work but his ego.

But as Martin himself has said many times love the story not the characters a quote that makes little sense to me because if you do not care about the characters you do not care about the story.

#18 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16806 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

I view Martin like I view Tolkien. Not that good a writer (though far from bad) but a topnotch storyteller.

#20 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16806 posts) - - Show Bio

I view Martin like I view Tolkien.

No. Just No.

#21 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16806 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: My opinion is that your opinion on my viewing tolkien like martin is wrong. I'm entitled to it Xp

#24 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip: He is not a great writer, most of the stories are dull. There are only a handful of good characters. I know how stories are written. I wrote and explained Shakespeare perfectly.

#25 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20171 posts) - - Show Bio

Complain all you want but at least he ain't Tolkien. The guy can fill up an entire page describing just a tree but only gives a blurb about the dragons.

#27 Edited by scorpion2501 (5549 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkadyred: Martin is a very skilled writer, you don't find a lot of writers of his calibur. He describes everything in a huge amount of detail. But yes, his books are slow paced, but I think it fits perfectly. And you can't compare a manga/anime/comic to a novel. If you would stretch a comic for 800 pages it would also become dull. Martin just writes on a bigger scale than most writers do.

#28 Posted by russellmania77 (15034 posts) - - Show Bio

Never watched that show b4

#29 Posted by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok

#30 Posted by RDClip (1129 posts) - - Show Bio

@rdclip: He is not a great writer, most of the stories are dull. There are only a handful of good characters. I know how stories are written. I wrote and explained Shakespeare perfectly.

Sorry, but dull is a matter of preference. If you dislike his books, that's fine. Don't pretend that he isn't a skilled writer just because his stories don't appeal to you. I don't really like Stephen King's novels, but I'm not going to call him a bad writer.

Please tell me how stories are written and how Martin does it wrong. You wanna give me some better examples of fantasy fiction in the same vien of A Song of Ice and Fire?

This discussion has nothing to do with Shakespeare, why are you bringing him up?

#31 Edited by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

I can respect the fact that you are not a fan of his work, but your comparisons are a bit ridiculous. You are comparing completely different mediums. And, it just seems like your problem is that the story moves too slowly, or you want a more 'warm and fuzzy' feeling from the novels. These are realistic stories written with adults, or those with accpetionally long attention spans, in mind. This is not so much a fantasy, as it is an authentic reimagining of fuedal-Europe, with ties into the fantasy genre. I find these stories to be very well written; imagery, allegory, characterization and plot-schemes are all expertly implemented. Keep in mind...these aren't Warhammer novels.

@arkadyred said:

@rdclip: He is not a great writer, most of the stories are dull. There are only a handful of good characters. I know how stories are written.

I wouldn't say that you know how stories are written, rather you just know what you like to read. There are too many writing styles, in use, to make such a claim.

I wrote and explained Shakespeare perfectly.

You do/did? When? It sure wasnt in this thread. This is a very empty, and very irrelevant (for that matter), claim. Any proof?

You're just not very good at trolling.

#32 Posted by RogueShadow (10366 posts) - - Show Bio

If you're gonna troll, at least give reasons. GRRM is spectacular, he's managed to merge the style of epic poetry with Tolkien with his own modern sensibility.

#33 Posted by Farkam (4884 posts) - - Show Bio

George Martin is famous for his book series. I find his characters dull, and unrealistic. The dialogue is boring, and the characters are killed left and right for no reason ( for shock value). This show is not dark fantasy, but a Dark Medieval fiction. I find for example Hellsing, Deathnote are written perfect.

#34 Edited by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: This not a troll thread. He is going to kill all the characters especially arya. Don't blame me if it happens.

#35 Posted by KingOfAsh (3588 posts) - - Show Bio

#36 Posted by Cgoodness (4352 posts) - - Show Bio

#37 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingofash: Give me your money, and your precious time.

#39 Posted by ImagineMan16 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

I could never really get into any of his work, but I don't think it was so much because of his writing, which I found no particular error with, but I just wasn't interested in anything going on in the story.

#40 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: This not a troll thread. He is going to kill all the characters especially arya. Don't blame me if it happens.

#41 Posted by VoodooPenguin (974 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't really like it either. Just didn't like his writing style.

#42 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by Jphu8414 (3634 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with OP, probably one of the most overrated writers ever-if you want someone who actually writes fantasy stores well, try JRR Tolkien

#44 Posted by Arkadyred (266 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: Tell me why he is a good writer?

Ummm... Why? Didn't I just say he wasn't that good a writer?

#46 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

People will probably burn me alive but I prefer Jordan and Goodkind over Martin. And yes, I know Goodkind is a douche.

#47 Posted by FriendlySymbioteVenomMan (12 posts) - - Show Bio

A: "Hey guys, I discovered that [popular thing] is objectively bad, stop liking it."

  • B: "Well, I'm alright with you not liking it, but I like [popular thing] and you don't really have anything that sways me here."
  • A: "Ah, fair enough!"

-or-

  • B: "I feel similarly, and here's why!"

[Intelligent discourse ensues]

Let's just pretend it (and the many other similar CV threads) went like this, eh?

#48 Posted by KingOfAsh (3588 posts) - - Show Bio

They are rarely killed off without reason, or even without warning. Each character is in a position of tension, and you could tell ill was likely to befall them (for instance, Visery's being a d**k to the Dothraki and threatening Khal Drogo's queen). You expect bad things to go down, but you expect them at the end of the book rather than midway through it. Ned, the attack on Winterfall, the Red Wedding, other events that have yet to screen but I wish not to spoil; all of them had some pre-warning hinting that something bad was about to befall. George R. R. Martin tries to make his works more like history and break the conventions & cliches of the fantasy genre. The characters are unique, as you rarely see cripples, midgets, fat people, retards (there's a better word I know) and ugly woman among the main heroes. Even though each A Song Of Ice & Fire book is long, none of it is filler, and all of it relevant. Not to mention he's written other books, such as The Armageddon Rag and Tuf Voyaging, which differ much from his most famous works (especially the latter).

#49 Posted by RogueShadow (10366 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: This not a troll thread. He is going to kill all the characters especially arya. Don't blame me if it happens.

I heard he'd made a promise to his wife that he wouldn't kill Arya because she is her favourite. But there has been a fair amount of foreshadowing for her death, but there has been for pretty much all of the characters.

#50 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (33084 posts) - - Show Bio

as much as the OP is a troll he's not wrong