extreme atheists want ww1 memorial removed

@erik: I don't know if I'd equate it to a zoo, but I see where you're going with it. I think I stated this, but it wouldn't happen any time soon. People just aren't ready. It'd be too revolutionary and too much work. It's a feasible and hypothetically simple idea, but with politics (stupid board of education elections), religious sensitivity, and constitutionality of such an act, the idea is a long ways away. Not to mention the terrible amount of coordination many districts have, and poor communication between parents and teachers.

The thing to remember is stupidity has no discrimination, and is not specific to any one people or group. It comes in all shapes, sizes, colors, creeds, political affiliations, and professions.

@mikesterman said:

warning the following picture may piss off some atheists. if you are easily offended... do not view.

God is not an "ultimate moral authority" first of all. 2nd. Just because we don't subscribe to religion, doesn't mean we don't have morals, I keep saying this over and over, MORALS AND RELIGION HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER. We don't have to rationalize our behavior with a all loving and caring deity. By this logic there has never been an atheist who was a prosecuting lawyer, judge, cop or any authority figure who has the ability to decide someones future depending on crime. It's actually sad and an insult to your intelligence that you yourself doesn't know not to forcibly have sex with someone, murder someone, steal something you didn't earn etc... If a "god" has to tell you those things and you didn't know they are wrong, you're a VERY sad human being

I was having a laugh. Don't take the zoo comment seriously.

@mikesterman: what does that even mean? Atheists are supposed to support civil chaos and lawlessness?

I love how the comments that are not inflammatory have been ignored. Just goes to show that when people show up to topics like this, they come looking for fights. That pr they want to add pointless memes.

@erik: oh alright. I didn't take any offense to it.

@mikesterman said:

warning the following picture may piss off some atheists. if you are easily offended... do not view.

As an Athiest myself I am angered by this!

How dare they claim we have no "Ultimate Moral Authority"!

We do!

We just ummm he's just only visible to us Atheists

And only talks to us..

...

:P

Unsurprising that the article the OP links to goes into very little detail and basically provides no evidence or clarification about the story. The article seems pretty bias and may have taken things out of context. If the article is true then yeah it is stupid, I am sure most atheists would agree.

Interesting to see this the other way around though see when religious people get offended over things for stupid reasons it is different. Say something bad about religion or something that makes fun of religion and religious people are quick to start complaining.

Though considering atheists were classed as the least trusted minority in America people's views and misconceptions on people who do not believe in gods is hardly surprising. Just kinda sad and pathetic to see.

@lvenger said:

h you do realise that if I do that, this thread will just flame out of control right?

@mikesterman said:

warning the following picture may piss off some atheists. if you are easily offended... do not view.

And this image is a suitable response to your poorly contextualised one. Don't look at it if you feel you might get offended

Thanks. Can always count on you to be a voice of reason and logic in this ignorance filled wasteland.

@sog7dc: Atheist take their em... "lack of religion" seriously :P

Honestly, I would keep the cross. But I am agnostic leaning toward atheist. I'm not a prick atheist, I just believe in science.

No. Any type of extremist is bad and this is just another example

Also I think there are more Christians than atheists but I'm not sure

@mrdecepticonleader: Dude I can't believe I used to follow this.

@mikesterman You really believe that atheists have no moral code? If so, then you you are sadly mistaken. I will gladly school you.

@dshipp17 I read something about how atheists were challenged by theists. Apparently the atheists didn't show up to the debate. Well, guess what? I'm right here. If you want to debate an atheist, now's your chance. And we don't even have to do it in this thread.

Just to respond to some of the criticisms I've gotten today, First, i should clarify my own belief set.

I define myself as Agnostic. If someone asks me "Is god real? " I would respond, "At present, there is not enough evidence to say one way or the other. Perhaps, with time and better understanding about the nature of existence, the answer will be clearer. For the moment though, I can't prove or disprove the existence of god, and neither can you"

Now then, with that out of the way... I do not believe these particular atheists have the so called "moral high ground". In fact, most (not all, but a fair majority) of Atheists are religious in their anti-religious beliefs. Most atheists are completely intolerant to the very idea that diety could exist, and anyone who disagrees with them must be ignorant. There is absolutely no room for debate, they are right, you are wrong.

I'm not saying religious people are any better. Indeed, it is well documented on the intolerance of many people, of many different faiths, on a myriad of issues. My question is this, without even allowing the other side to participate in the debate, how can logical people advance society? The short answer is that they can't. If all religion is outlawed, all holy books burned and all preachers tried and jailed, not only are we doing a grave diservice to history, but Atheists have now become the very thing they hate: A monotheistic dictatorship that is absolutely right, and all other viewpoints are heresy.

As to the issue at hand, it's simple. For 80 years since that memorial has stood, no one had a problem with it. Now suddenly, these people come along and want to tear it down, not only at the expense of Christians (who still make up 70% of America, at last count) but at the men and women who fought in that war. They never asked for recognition or glory, just a chance to do the right thing, and this simple epitaph is our way of saying thank you. If that somehow offends your sensibility, move to North Korea and find out how an atheist society lives, (hint: It's not very pleasent) and stop soapboxing on the graves of dead soldiers.

There are vastly more Christians, and their accompanying scientists, than atheists, like 1 million to 1; surprised you seriously didn't know that, but no biggie.

@dshipp17: That's what I thought but I wasn't completely sure. I didn't think there were so little atheists though, thanks for clearing that up

Marvelboy is on all of you!

This man speaketh the truth indeed.

@wolverine08: What's the issue now? *sigh*

Who cares. They're dead atheists. aka, "worm food".

Kidding aside, they shouldn't care.

Just so you know, at least I agree with you.

Actually, you might want to respond by saying that you're unaware of any evidence supporting the existence of God or you're in denial about any evidence supporting the existence of God; there is some evidence supporting the existence of God and absolutely no evidence supporting the notion that God does not exist; having said that, currently, the burden of proof is actually on the atheists to support their firmly held beliefs that God does not or cannot exist; and seriously, do you think a group so outnumbered as atheists could actually outlaw all religious people, jail all religious people, and burn all religious books? That comment is just plan delirious even to suggest as a possibility.

@dshipp17:

there is some evidence supporting the existence of God

Can you show me this evidence?

currently, the burden of proof is actually on the atheists to support their firmly held beliefs that God does not or cannot exist;

No it's not. It's makes absolutely no sense from a logical stand-point either.

@lvenger said:

@raiiyn: Uh you do realise that if I do that, this thread will just flame out of control right?

@mikesterman said:

warning the following picture may piss off some atheists. if you are easily offended... do not view.

And this image is a suitable response to your poorly contextualised one. Don't look at it if you feel you might get offended

Just wondering, how the f**k are intelligence and morality interrelated? There are plenty of idiotic people that don't "need the promise of heaven to see the merit in good deeds." There are plenty of intelligent people that do "need the promise of heaven to see the merit in good deeds." That statement is completely retarded.

Also, don't get me started on how incredibly biased and subjective that second statement is.

It's up to you to do the research and read about the evidence; research key phrases likely to lead you to the evidence; if a keyword that should logically lead you to at least speculation about the topic leads you nowhere, provide me with the keyword you used and your findings, than I'll suggest some topic to search, if deemed necessary.

Actually, no, that's not how science work; if you have a firmly held belief in a theory than you're supposed to present evidence supporting your hypothesis; that's how it's suppose to and does work; a scientist thought he had it all put together when he envisioned evolution, presented his evidence, and had it dismantled by his fellow peers; if you believe otherwise, try approaching your science teacher/professor with the notion that others should support your hypothesis for you and see how far you get; I must give it to you, it's spoken by an opinionated atheists; why does this part of the scientific method have to be suddenly suspended, when the topic of a proof of God come up?

Lol, this thread is so filled with ignorance that it's both sad, and hilarious.

@tazzmission:

1. Atheism and Agnosticism are not mutually exclusive. Theism/Atheism has to do with belief(theists believe in the existence of a god, atheists don't), while Gnosticism/Agnosticism has to do with knowledge(gnostics will claim that they know/are sure that a god exists, while agnostics will say that they are unsure).

You can have an agnostic Theist, someone who acknowledges that they are not sure whether a god exists or not, but believes that he does.

An agnostic atheist, someone who is not sure whether a god exists or not, but does not believe he does.

A Gnostic Theist, someone who not only believes in the existence of a god, but is sure about it.

A Gnostic Atheist, someone who not only not believes that a god exists, but is sure that he doesn't.

@rd189: The reason that most american atheists primarily focus on christianity, is because that is what they are primarily exposed to on a daily basis.

However, if you actually knew the least bit of what you're talking about, you would know that plenty of atheists, even most of the well-known ones, speak out against Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. just as they speak out against christianity.

Sam Harris, for example, is known for being particularly aggressive towards Islam, calling it the biggest threat to modern society.

@tazzmission: The reason that a lot of atheist actively speak out against religion, is that they honestly think that religion is detrimental to our society.

For example, the conservative party in texas, as part of their charter, wants to have Critical Thinking removed from public schools, this is due to(according to statements from a, iirc, texan senator) the children learning critical thinking, leading them away from christianity. In the long run, if they managed to get that through, it would result in a technological backslide, which would most definitely be detrimental to our society.

Another example would be the Pope condemning the distribution of condomns to combat AIDS in Africa. Effectively leading to more people getting the disease, and dying, slowly and painfully, from it.

@riddlergeist: Most atheists do act like atheists. Not believing in things that cannot be proven, and acting according to their own moral compass, rather than pretending to follow a moral code from a book.

@dshipp17:

"Christians have some proof for God's existence."

And yet, not a single christian has actually provided any evidence to support their claim of god's existence, in any of the countless debates that have taken place.

"Atheist have no proof that there is no God and even scientist on their side admit to that fact."

This is true, but Atheists don't have to provide proof that there is no god. The theists are the ones making the positive claim, thus the burden of proof is on them. And they have yet to provide a single piece of solid evidence.

"Atheists have been challenged by Christians but never show up for the debates"

Just like several christians have been challenged, but never shown up, or outright denied the challenges. It just happens more often with christians, than the other way around.

"atheists even have a $10,000 reward available to demonstrate that there is no God"

Yes, atheists also have a, iirc, 100 thousand dollar reward, for conclusive evidence of anything supernatural. A reward that has been on the table for more than 15 years, and has never been claimed.

"although atheists can desire to challenge our evidence that there is a God, with little success I might add, atheists have yet to present evidence that there can be absolutely no God or there's absolutely no evidence of God"

Atheists don't have to prove that there is no God, they don't make that claim in the first place. On the other hand, despite more than a hundred years of trying, christians have not provided a single piece of conclusive evidence to support their claim that god exists.

"But, please, just lay out how what I said lacks logic and lets debate; sometimes, I'll provide my references. I'm actually a trained scientist who happens to be Christian."

A trained scientist that, based on your comments, apparently doesn't understand the burden of proof, or the scientific method.

I don't suppose you got your scientific "training" at something like the Liberty University(and I use the word university, in the loosest possible way)?

--------------

Christianity: Believing that if God tells you to, it must be ok. That includes rape, robbery, mass-murder, pedophilia, slavery, brain washing, child abuse, lying, stealing, etc. etc.

A person who, in his life, has done all of the above, will be forgiven and go to "heaven" if he simply accepts jesus as his savior. While a good person, who has spent his life helping others, or an infant that dies of sickness in its early years, but was born in the wrong part of the world, will burn in hell for eternity.

@dshipp17:

It's up to you to do the research and read about the evidence; research key phrases likely to lead you to the evidence; if a keyword that should logically lead you to at least speculation about the topic leads you nowhere, provide me with the keyword you used and your findings, than I'll suggest some topic to search, if deemed necessary.

I've already searched this studied this subject many times in the past, have read books about, etc, etc, and there is still no concrete evidence for a God(s) existing. Which is why I asked you to provide evidence.

Believe me, proof that a God(s) exist would do wonders for me because I am a deist - not an atheist like people have an habit of associating me with.

Actually, no, that's not how science work; if you have a firmly head belief in a theory than you're supposed to present evidence supporting your hypothesis; that's how it's suppose to and does work; a scientist thought he had it all put together when he envisioned evolution, presented his evidence, and had it dismantled by his fellow peers; if you believe otherwise, try approaching your science teacher/professor with the notion that others should support your hypothesis for you and see how far you get; I must give it to you, it's spoken by an opinionated atheists.

My second comment was made in conjunction with the first actually - which, is why I said it's illogical for burden of proof to solely fall on atheist even though deist or theist don't have any evidence to support their claim either.

I know how science works, I don't need a lecture about it.

Edit: Also, How can a negative be proven anyway? They are the one claiming a God exist, so the burden of proof is on their shoulders.

That's like characters X claiming, Z is real and telling characters Q to prove it's not. The burden falls on X because he/she is the one making the positive claim, not Q.

i love being right @sog7dc

We have converted him to the dark side of the force.

Indeed you are.

You can have him :)

@sirmethos: Excellent post.

Welcome to the internet.

This is why we can't have nice things.

@wolverine08: You will join us, soon enough.........

That's not the case at all with me.

When I see bullsh!t I'm going to respond to it, that is, if I'm not to lazy at that point and time.

Asking for Atheists to provide evidence that god does not exist, is like asking for evidence that Santa Clause does not exist, and when no evidence is provided, saying "Aha! See! he does exist!".

That there is no evidence to show that something does not exist, does not prove that it does exist.

None of you can prove that I don't have a pet baby dragon in my backyard, and yet no rational human being would believe that I have it, if I don't prove it(just to clarify for the slow readers, I'm not claiming to have a pet dragon, baby or otherwise. it's just an example)..

I thought you might find this interesting. While Christianity is the largest religion, the MAJORITY of the world is NOT Christian. and for every 2.3 Christians there is 1 atheist/agnostic. Islam is currently the fastest growing religion. Many estimate that in our lifetime Islam will be the dominate religion

http://day.newton.k12.ma.us/sites/day.newton.k12.ma.us/files/users/3/pdf/Culture.pdf

Well, you need to research again, but, it appears that you're saying that you're in denial about the existence of God. It can be a pointless endeavor to reason with someone who's in denial; but, provide some examples of these subjects and topics you've search; name some authority figures who've established the existence of God; I know there's quite a bit of evidence that points to the existence of God; I know of a group of scientists who's doing a weekly YouTube broadcast refuting claims by atheists for the notion that God does not exist; if you can go through all of that information and claim to be absolutely certain that there's no God, than I'd say we have a case of pure delirium. I've examined the evidence from a purely objective position.

Ok, act like you know how science works. The way science works is that you have a claim and belief system already in place; you study those claims and belief systems carefully; you than find a flaw, you develop a hypothesis, you do testing, and than you develop a theory; you than present it to your peers; it gets accepted or rejected. The belief in God has been in place for millenia; now, we have this situation where we get this group of hard heads who challenge our belief in God and we're suppose to alter the scientific process and suddenly reverse the process to support your assertions that there's no basis for our long held belief in God? I don't think so. For example, previously, the belief was that the Universe always existed, the static state theory, for example; other scientists came along and questioned that theory, soon coming up with the Big Bang Theory; although the theory is clearly flawed, it's preferable to the theory that the Universe had no beginning; now, the burden of proof is on the atheists to disprove our static state theory that there is a God; the same thing happened with Newton's principles to form the field of Modern Physics; before modern physics was accepted, it underwent the rigors of the scientific process; Quantum Mechanics on the other side of the spectrum; so far, atheists haven't even caused me to question anything I've read in the Bible; as a scientists, trust me, I questioned it myself, and came back to my belief and faith in God.

Co signed.....

@mikesterman said:

warning the following picture may piss off some atheists. if you are easily offended... do not view.

Double Co Signed.

@dccomicsrule2011: @dshipp17: @marvel_boy2241: You guys should do a C.A.V (challenge a viner). For those who don't know a CAV is a one on one debate, where no one is supposed to interfere. They are very popular on the battle boards. I think a religious CAV would be awesome. Between the 3 of you, we have a deist,atheist and theist. Match made in heaven!

Christianity is the largest global religious group; Christianity is the most persecuted religious group; many who have a preference for Christianity would be too afraid to admit it in certain location; also, consider more carefully how Islam is growing/spreads; I've heard within just a period of a couple of months on CBN that Christianity is actually the fastest growing religious group, always has been, and always will be until Jesus returns.

I said Christianity is the largest religious group. That does not change the fact that the majority of the world is NOT Christian. Of course Christianity is the most persecuted because it is the largest and loudest. it's the biggest target. also it is possibly the most hypocritical religion which leads to persecution. In some places it is bad to admit your christian but i would wager saying your a Muslim or atheist in todays world is worse. I know many people who can't even tell their families of their atheist/agnostic beliefs because of persecution. Islam is definitely the fastest growing. In places where islam is dominate you are nearly forced to follow it. Some countries are 98% Islam. Where Christianity is dominate you have more choices and freedom. So Christianity is losing ground

Why dont you post an unbiased article that talks about what the group is actually asking for, rather than a petition that likes to use the frame "angry atheists" as much as you do?

Speaking for myself, I dont mind if people want to put up crosses on their own land and with their own money. But the problem that I and other atheists have is when the government uses public funds and public lands to do so. We do, after all, have this little thing called the Establishment Clause in the Constitution... otherwise known as Separation of Church and State. And, while many Christians feel entitled to the government financially supporting their beliefs, I for one dont want that.

I wonder how quickly these Christians would cry bloody murder if the government went around putting up Islamic symbols all over the place, and the President started mentioning Allah in every speech.

That's rubbish, because if it had any basis in logic, than the second largest religious group would also be a major target of persecution; Christianity is not persecuted because of perceived hypocrisy; that's clearly your opinion; this discussion is intended to debate facts; Christianity is more than a third of the world population so it's the largest group; actually, the loudest religious group is not Christians; Christianity is spread in a very subtle way; if you're so displeased with Christianity in comparison to other religious groups, than why don't you just move to Iran or Afghanistan, try to express your freedom from religion, than see how far you get?

Extreme Atheists suck.

Wait I thought he was OFF! you, is he on or off now :p

Islam(the second largest religion) is persecuted. Muslims are the most hated religion in america. And Christianity is the largest hypocritical religious group by statistics. Google: Religion of people in jail. The data is right there. then when you consider all the corrupt politicians, sexually deviant entertainers, number of people committing adultery and fornication, stealing, killing... in a CHRISTIAN dominated world. the answer is clear who the hypocrites are. I'll stay right where I am so that I can try to reason with Christians to stop being Christian. Christians are so intent on saving people, I feel I should try to save some of them.

P.S It's funny you state you want to discuss facts while believing in invisible people, talking animals and rivers turning to blood. Where are your FACTS to support those ideas. The words "Facts" and "religion" are oxymorons.