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#201 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

But that premature baby is in the same stage of development as the unborn fetus of the same age.... basically your stance is "out of sight, out of mind"

What people really want (most of the time) IMHO is convenience. They want to have all the sex they can and not own up to the responsibility of a child when they get pregnant. So they say "its a fetus" so they don't feel like a murderer when they have an abortion

I take you don't realize how awesome sex is?

#202 Posted by ComicStooge (13965 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@comicstooge:

Every menstrual cycle must be the death of a child then. Same with when males ejaculate into something or onto something that isn't a fertile womb.

In a way, it sort of is, technically.

But anyway, I do not support the abortion of a fetus. That's where I draw the line, personally.

#203 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17132 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

@comicstooge:

Every menstrual cycle must be the death of a child then. Same with when males ejaculate into something or onto something that isn't a fertile womb.

In a way, it sort of is, technically.

But anyway, I do not support the abortion of a fetus. That's where I draw the line, personally.

That has to be something like ninety eight percent of the stuff.

Talk about mass murder.

#204 Edited by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: yes but that is a natural biological function. Having some doc scrape an unborn baby out of you is not natural. Therefore they are not equal. Also I made a general statement and I did apoligize for it offending you.

Only natural things should be okay? So surgery to save someone's life -- or artificial insemination or other methods to held conceive a child are all wrong? You gave a non-apology, your apologized that I felt offended, not that you were wrong in stating people who justify abortion also justify the killing of those who died in that tragedy. That's the insult. But at this point, I don't see the purpose of discussing it any further.

But that premature baby is in the same stage of development as the unborn fetus of the same age.... basically your stance is "out of sight, out of mind"

What people really want (most of the time) IMHO is convenience. They want to have all the sex they can and not own up to the responsibility of a child when they get pregnant. So they say "its a fetus" so they don't feel like a murderer when they have an abortion

What? Out of sight/out of mind? You don't have a vagina, you don't have a uterus, clearly.

You and I do not agree on this. That's okay. Abortion is legal. What you think in contrast to what I think is a moot point - and as for treating abortion as a form of birth control, if you really want to learn, then read up on it. This thread is more for people's opinions on it so arguing whether it's right or wrong is off topic. So I shall stop.

#205 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio
#207 Edited by ComicStooge (13965 posts) - - Show Bio
#208 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: I never said that people who support abortion support that. I said to me murder is murder. So both should be considered an equal tragety. You totallymtook what I said out of context, but thats ok lol. No harm done

#209 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@martyyy15:

I didn't take it out of context. My previous posts are pretty clear. But that's okay -- I agree about the no harm done.

#210 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6538 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose said:

@black_arrow said:

@v_scarlotte_rose: Yeah you are right i should go and kill that guy who I consider his face pretty similar to that guy who raped me and because he is a constant reminder of a tramatic, degrading event and that hurts me a lot.

My reasons weren't based on the child looking like the rapist, the child being there at all is the reminder. At the point of abortion it probably wouldn't look like either parent anyway, so looks don't really come into it at all.

So why should I have to suffer more after having already been raped?

You could just give the baby up for adoption or the like.

The baby shouldn't be put to death before it even gets a chance to live.

That's my opinion, anyway.

That might work for other people, but I don't think I could. Even a child tainted by being fathered by a rapist would still be a part of me, and I might still feel the need to care for it despite resenting its' existence. I'd rather not be forced into such a position.

"Before it gets a chance to live" is the big thing here, as I wouldn't consider it to truly be life up to a certain point.

#211 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio
#212 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio
#213 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: it is cinstantly ever growimg form of life inside the mother.

#214 Edited by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: it is cinstantly ever growimg form of life inside the mother.

A what?

You mean like a tapeworm?

I still dont understand how a clump of cells is a human life.

#215 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: does a tapeworm have humam DNA lol? Btw all organisms are a clump of cells

#216 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18722 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course.

#217 Edited by CrouchingTiger (148 posts) - - Show Bio

@glitch_spawn: sex is awesome, but like many awesome things, it bears consequences.

#218 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6538 posts) - - Show Bio
#219 Edited by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio
#220 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio
#221 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6538 posts) - - Show Bio

@martyyy15: It's not. I'll give you a clue. The brown stuff is dirt.

#222 Posted by CrouchingTiger (148 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Read up on it? Oh yes, obviously I haven't read up on it because I disagree with you. Obviously you know more than me on the subject because I don't have a vagina. I guess only women can have educated opinions on abortion. Unless they're pro life, then they need to read up on it and fix their opinions.

#223 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18722 posts) - - Show Bio

Only in the early months. Late months are acceptable only if they are health risks. That's pretty much my whole stand on it.

So like the standard months gap when it is legal to have one anyway?

#224 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio
#225 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6538 posts) - - Show Bio

@martyyy15: Nope. Next clue. The round thing around it is the top of a plant pot.

#226 Edited by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: Read up on it? Oh yes, obviously I haven't read up on it because I disagree with you. Obviously you know more than me on the subject because I don't have a vagina. I guess only women can have educated opinions on abortion. Unless they're pro life, then they need to read up on it and fix their opinions.

I think she's right. If you had a vagina or maybe were educated on the subject you might not be saying dumb things like that women want to have abortions because they want to have sex without caring about birth control. I've never seen a woman who thought having to have an abortion was a good way of birth control. I wonder how you'd feel if all those unwanted babies were born and then dropped off at your doorstep to care for and raise. Or how about if we charged you for murder every time a woman died at birth when it could have been prevented with an abortion? You might change your mind real quick.

#227 Edited by SolthesunGod (278 posts) - - Show Bio

I was totally pro-choice when I was a teenager and then as I got older it changed. I made some friends with some people who were adopted. One of them was very anti-abortion. Her mother didn't decide to give her up for adoption, she was forced by her family. Although she never said it to me directly it was clear that it's in the back of her head that her life could have been ended had abortion been legal in my country and it definately would not have been her mother's choice. I also have another friend whose background I am totally unaware but he's adopted. I have no idea if he's the product or incest or rape but I don't particularly care if he. He's not defined by what someone else did and it seems cruel to expect people who are born into those situations to be punished in lieu of the rapist. Also the only person I know who has had numerous abortions is now struggling emotionally with the reality of that years later. In that case she and her boyfriend at the time didn't like using protection.

Saying that I totally agree that if the mother's life is at risk she should have the option of having a termination. That's about survival.

I also dislike both the Pro-Life and Pro-Choice lobby. I think both sides cruelly use emotional blackmail and hate mongering. Unfortunately it seems like neither side is able to recognize that they just imitate each other's bad behaviour.

#228 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: a seed, which is not a human life. Cause it has no human cellular structure

#229 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: he is not saying they should just die if the baby is a direct threat to the moms life. Im pro life but if the baby is a threat to her life then if should be removed, every effeort to savw it if possible, if its grown enough. But better to lose one life instead of two sadly :( and only for this case is it acceptable

#230 Edited by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@martyyy15 said:

@willpayton: he is not saying they should just die if the baby is a direct threat to the moms life. Im pro life but if the baby is a threat to her life then if should be removed, every effeort to savw it if possible, if its grown enough. But better to lose one life instead of two sadly :( and only for this case is it acceptable

"Murder is murder"... that's what you said, right? So, in this case murder is "acceptable" to you?

Here's a question, what's this? (hint: it has a "human cellular structure")

Is this a human life?

#231 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: does it have the potential to be life that has free will?

#232 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@magnificentstorm: Regardless, I said it could happen. It is possible, especially for minors.

There's a good reason why threads like this get locked. People have different views and they like forcing theirs on others. No one's opinion is going to change, so this is just an endless argument. This thread should be locked.

#233 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: does it have the potential to be life that has free will?

Is has a "human cellular structure", which is what you claimed caused something to be a human life. Are you changing your definition of a human life already?

#234 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: and would you then perfer both the mother and baby die then? Its like in war, sometimes you have to choose the lesser evil

#235 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6538 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: a seed, which is not a human life. Cause it has no human cellular structure

Yep, a seed, not a flower.

The seed has the potential to become a flower, but is not a flower.

The seed is the equivalent of the "clump of cells", ie, not a human life, but merely something that could become a human life if left to grow.

Can you see that there is a difference between the early clump of cells and an actual human child?

#236 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: does it have the potential to be life that has free will?

BTW, a tree has the potential to be a chair.

Are trees chairs?

#237 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5669 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the woman's choice and all of these politicians ( male) need to stay out of it.

#238 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: well by extension then by the transitive property a seed is a flower.

#239 Edited by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@martyyy15 said:

@willpayton: and would you then perfer both the mother and baby die then? Its like in war, sometimes you have to choose the lesser evil

It doesnt matter what I'd prefer. You're the one who said that "murder is murder". Are you saying that murder is ok? Why would murdering one person to save a different person be justified? You're making claims, back them up.

#240 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: well by extension then by the transitive property a seed is a flower.

So you think that seeds are flowers, trees are chairs, clumps of cells are people. Do I have the right?

#241 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6538 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: well by extension then by the transitive property a seed is a flower.

So the way that you think of things, every stage before the final product, is the final product?

#242 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: a tree xan also become paper, a cane, or box. Where as the fetusmhas potentail to become a life form with free will. It can only become one thing not multiple things such as a tree. Also where chairs can be made from diferent materials. Where a human with free will cant.

#243 Edited by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio
#244 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: @v_scarlotte_rose: cop shoots criminal holdimg a hostage

So a baby in a womb is like a criminal holding a hostage? What particular crime did the baby commit?

You still havent answered my question about the image I posted. Is it a person, a human life?

Also, have you changed your mind about all organisms being "clumps of cells"?

#245 Posted by CrouchingTiger (148 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: I never said women didn't care about birth control. Never even implied it. And yes, i believe most abortions are out of convenience, but i never said anybody WANTS them. There are SOME circumstances where abortion is acceptable. And furthermore, dont call people dumb or tell them what they say is dumb for disagreeing with you. You are trying desperately to push an agenda on this forum.

#246 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

I can honestly say that @lykopis has left me with no work to do whatsoever. Look @pyrogram, we are out of work!!!! Dunno how to feel about this :S........

Abortion- its a no brainier for me.

What I will say though, is that I think its sad that the infrastructure for Adoption is not developed enough so that people who can't bear children can take them off people who are unable to look after them/don't want to.

#247 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: I never said women didn't care about birth control. Never even implied it. And yes, i believe most abortions are out of convenience, but i never said anybody WANTS them. There are SOME circumstances where abortion is acceptable. And furthermore, dont call people dumb or tell them what they say is dumb for disagreeing with you. You are trying desperately to push an agenda on this forum.

I'm pretty sure I can say whatever I want.

#248 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: I domt know wha that image is lol. And consider the guardian movie, you cant save everyome. Better to save at least one life than lose both. Also you asked for situation for taking human life was justif8able and I gave you such a situation

#249 Posted by WillPayton (9822 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton: I domt know wha that image is lol. And consider the guardian movie, you cant save everyome. Better to save at least one life than lose both. Also you asked for situation for taking human life was justif8able and I gave you such a situation

No, I asked if "murder" was justified. You talked about murder, not "taking a human life".

Also, the situation you gave is not "murder"

mur·der

/ˈmərdər/

Noun
The unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

A cop killing a criminal that's holding a hostage would not be murder, it's be a justifiable, lawful killing.

So I have to ask again, are you saying that murder is just justified? If so, why would murdering a baby be justified?

Ok, you dont know what the image is. But like I said, it has human DNA. Was this not your criteria for what a human life is? Are you changing your definition of a human life to something that has human DNA and has the "potential" to be a human?

If so, why does having potential to be human make something human?

If I have a sperm and an egg cell, are those a human life?

#250 Posted by martyyy15 (1223 posts) - - Show Bio