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Edited 11 months, 14 days ago

Poll: Do you feel a fictional story HAS to be realistic or make sense or not? (49 votes)

Yes 39%
No 53%
Not sure 8%

So wondering, it's something I've debated with my friends over time. And found it to be an interesting concept when you think about it.

Especially with comics for instance, I sometimes read the Flash topics and Superman too. People sometimes go into this whole "realistic, scientific" breakdown while other users say "hey dude it's fiction, who cares"? lol

So what are your thoughts? Fiction in general, do you feel it needs to be realistic or doesn't matter being fantasy/fiction? Does it depend on the story regardless of fiction or not?

Do tell, I hope to read many interesting posts :)

#1 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

If by reallistic you mean plausible and internal logic.

Yes.

People often forgets this two things, if is not plausible and has no internal logic, people is not going to belive it.

#2 Edited by Fallschirmjager (16648 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistic and make sense aren't too mutually inclusive concepts though.

Superman being able to fly because he gains powers under the yellow sun isn't realistic.

But when he's not in the presence of the yellow sun and THEN can still fly is when it wouldn't make sense.

(i know there are multiple sun colors, I just oversimplified it for the sake of an example)

Basically. As long as the universe sets up its own set of rules, I don't care how realistic it is, as long as they abide by those rules it will make sense and I'm happy. Its when they break their own rules when I get annoyed.

#3 Posted by Dragonborn_CT (21866 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mind it very much, unless if there isn't a reasonable explanation. Or if the story has enough momentum to keep me interested into not thinking about these details. Honestly you can go on forever bitching about some things in Assassin's Creed doesn't make sense until you realize that its all inside a simulation program, nothing is real, so therefore you had to cut a huge slack.

I know some people who are driven insane by these little things.

#4 Edited by TheCannon (18304 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistic and make sense aren't too mutually inclusive concepts though.

Superman being able to fly because he gains powers under the yellow sun isn't realistic.

But when he's not in the presence of the yellow sun and THEN can still fly is when it wouldn't make sense.

(i know there are multiple sun colors, I just oversimplified it for the sake of an example)

Basically. As long as the universe sets up its own set of rules, I don't care how realistic it is, as long as they abide by those rules it will make sense and I'm happy. Its when they break their own rules when I get annoyed.

This.

#5 Posted by DecoyElite (4019 posts) - - Show Bio

Really depends on the story. I prefer consistency to realism, although you can even throw that out the window if it's the right sort of story.

#6 Posted by Deathstroke02 (2332 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistic and make sense aren't too mutually inclusive concepts though.

Superman being able to fly because he gains powers under the yellow sun isn't realistic.

But when he's not in the presence of the yellow sun and THEN can still fly is when it wouldn't make sense.

(i know there are multiple sun colors, I just oversimplified it for the sake of an example)

Basically. As long as the universe sets up its own set of rules, I don't care how realistic it is, as long as they abide by those rules it will make sense and I'm happy. Its when they break their own rules when I get annoyed.

#7 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the story. If it intends on being more realistic, then yes. If not, then I could care less.

#8 Edited by Squares (5560 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, yes, to some extent all stories need to make sense, and there needs to be some element of realism to them for them to be...well, understood at all.

#9 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10877 posts) - - Show Bio

It has to remember to follows it's own rules, and I won't mind if it's realistic or not.

Online
#10 Posted by DoomDoomDoom (4235 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends, but generally for me it doesn't have to be realistic but it must make sense in regards to itself. I don't know how to phrase that...wait...

It has to remember to follows it's own rules, and I won't mind if it's realistic or not.

This!

#11 Posted by ARMIV2 (8432 posts) - - Show Bio

Realism is required only in that everything that is going to happen within the story needs to make sense in the given context and frame of the story as events transpire.

I have no immediate problems with the idea of a character farting rainbows so long as the world/story the character is set in totally works with it.

#12 Posted by russellmania77 (15013 posts) - - Show Bio

It needs realism but not too much to over shadow that it is still a fictional story

#13 Posted by Squares (5560 posts) - - Show Bio

@armiv2 said:

Realism is required only in that everything that is going to happen within the story needs to make sense in the given context and frame of the story as events transpire.

I have no immediate problems with the idea of a character farting rainbows so long as the world/story the character is set in totally works with it.

Well put.

#14 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

No, obviously.

#15 Posted by ARMIV2 (8432 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares said:

@armiv2 said:

Realism is required only in that everything that is going to happen within the story needs to make sense in the given context and frame of the story as events transpire.

I have no immediate problems with the idea of a character farting rainbows so long as the world/story the character is set in totally works with it.

Well put.

Why thank you.

#16 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@fallschirmjager: Well, I didn't say the two were necessarily mutual hence the "or" in the title ;) if that's what your assumption is.

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

If by reallistic you mean plausible and internal logic.

Yes.

People often forgets this two things, if is not plausible and has no internal logic, people is not going to belive it.

Hey what's up? That's the thing, different people may have a different interpretation of "plausible and internal logic" know what I mean? lol, for example. I always get into a debate with one of my closest friends concerning AVP one, now he's pro predator and I admit I prefer them myself, however the scene where the first one gets killed by an alien drone he went nuts.

He pretty much ranted that "the alien tail on a drone IS NOT THAT LONG! to impale a predator" my other friend disagreed and said "dude it's science FICTION, it's a movie who cares"? My other friend said he had issues with consistency and continuity concerning the "alien drone's tail" which to him wasn't that long in the alien films.

So I really think it may depend on the viewer, unless they're purposely going for a realistic gig I don't feel IMO that they should go nuts with the homework too much. I mean god knows we've seen crazy stuff in comics that isn't consistent and that's very dependent on the writer no doubt, movies and games.

Now if you take a series like say South Park or Family Guy, does it really have to make sense? lol because god knows between both shows, neither have in various episodes lol.

#17 Edited by PowerHerc (83261 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#18 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Because AVP was a huge hit and loved by everybody?

AVP was the main example, it never try to build any type of internal logic, thing that Alien and Predator did in their own movies, anything that happened in their own movies were plausible in their movies.

AVP didnt have internal logic and plausible things going on, the movie failed because of this, it wasnt Alien or Predator, it was just some random rumble spotfest going on, as cool as it is, it will never live for long and people is not going to care since anything goes, what means the movie is terribly more easy to figure out how is going to end, amazingly being chaotic made this movie more generic.

Famialy Guy and South Park have an internal logic going on,they make sense in his own universe , maybe you cant see it, but is there the type of humor it follow, how thing happens, the characters and how they react, in this universe what happens its plausible and make sense.

You should see Excel Saga, even that show has internal logic and the things going on are plausible in their universe, even when they make Family Guy look normal with his crazyness an wackyness, you notice the internal logic of this show in the first episode.

You dont see episodes like The King of The Hill in this shows, you don see Adventure Time things or House M.D. going on, it because is absurd dead baby comedy that many times is only insulting, but still it follows his own internal logic.

Why do you think The Simpsons now suck money balls?

They changed the internal logic of the show, nothing that happens in the new episodes is plausible with the old internal logic, the one that made amazing episodes, so the show became terrible because of it, the show now make no sense and crash totally with the old show and his logic.

The new writer never decide to use the old linternal logic and that why the show is dying and they should fire their asses on live television.

#19 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistic and make sense aren't too mutually inclusive concepts though.

Superman being able to fly because he gains powers under the yellow sun isn't realistic.

But when he's not in the presence of the yellow sun and THEN can still fly is when it wouldn't make sense.

(i know there are multiple sun colors, I just oversimplified it for the sake of an example)

Basically. As long as the universe sets up its own set of rules, I don't care how realistic it is, as long as they abide by those rules it will make sense and I'm happy. Its when they break their own rules when I get annoyed.

#20 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000 said:

@vaeternus: Because AVP was a huge hit and loved by everybody?

AVP was the main example, it never try to build any type of internal logic, thing that Alien and Predator did in their own movies, anything that happened in their own movies were plausible in their movies.

AVP didnt have internal logic and plausible things going on, the movie failed because of this, it wasnt Alien or Predator, it was just some random rumble spotfest going on, as cool as it is, it will never live for long and people is not going to care since anything goes, what means the movie is terribly more easy to figure out how is going to end, amazingly being chaotic made this movie more generic.

Famialy Guy and South Park have an internal logic going on,they make sense in his own universe , maybe you cant see it, but is there the type of humor it follow, how thing happens, the characters and how they react, in this universe what happens its plausible and make sense.

You should see Excel Saga, even that show has internal logic and the things going on are plausible in their universe, even when they make Family Guy look normal with his crazyness an wackyness, you notice the internal logic of this show in the first episode.

You dont see episodes like The King of The Hill in this shows, you don see Adventure Time things or House M.D. going on, it because is absurd dead baby comedy that many times is only insulting, but still it follows his own internal logic.

Why do you think The Simpsons now suck money balls?

They changed the internal logic of the show, nothing that happens in the new episodes is plausible with the old internal logic, the one that made amazing episodes, so the show became terrible because of it, the show now make no sense and crash totally with the old show and his logic.

The new writer never decide to use the old linternal logic and that why the show is dying and they should fire their asses on live television.

I enjoyed the movie, well the first one to a point I know it wasn't the best however.

But I do think they should have used a more vet predator instead of noobies to train. But I hear ya.

Not sure about FG and South Park though, lol even in their own universe they've had episodes that don't make sense but given the fact that they're a random comedy at times, I can live with it. Don't get me wrong though, I love both shows and one reason being is the randomness of both and how crazy they go sometimes.

But if you want a prime example of my perspective, Seinfeld is a GREAT example. Random comedy, NEVER makes sense nor has to. It's why some people hated it, but why many loved it too. Unlike most shows that have a generic, predictable script you never knew what was going to happen with Seinfeld, it was that random being a fan of the show and seen every episode I know this.

KOTH I lost interest in, Adventure time not my cup of tea(never really watched much of it to be honest) lol House and other medical shows exaggerate or underestimate the realistic scenario half the time.

Excel Saga huh? Have to check that out.

I agree about Simpsons, it became dull years ago imo and lost it's flavor that it had in the 90's

I think once you have a new writer for anything it allows them to have power and alter anything they wish regardless of logic or not. Look at loeb for example, lol so many people have issues with him apparently.

#21 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: Yeah, they are bizarre, random and weird, that still dont mean is illogical, Seinfeild as random as it is, always acted in a way , the characters were doing some thing and there was main characters, you dont see an episode where the main character is a monkey with a lizard face one episode and the next a super serious drama, there has being tv show that had try to be illogical and bizarre, but being bizarre and illogical became their own internal logic.

That is internal logic, you confuse internal logic with storyline, plots and jokes, besides external logic.

If you are going to change things, so they never fit what they were, you should better do something new, this whole are fictional character argument is for dumb people without any skills.

#22 Posted by MrDirector786 (43516 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistic and make sense aren't too mutually inclusive concepts though.

Superman being able to fly because he gains powers under the yellow sun isn't realistic.

But when he's not in the presence of the yellow sun and THEN can still fly is when it wouldn't make sense.

(i know there are multiple sun colors, I just oversimplified it for the sake of an example)

Basically. As long as the universe sets up its own set of rules, I don't care how realistic it is, as long as they abide by those rules it will make sense and I'm happy. Its when they break their own rules when I get annoyed.

Pretty much this.

#23 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
@deathpoolthet1000 said:

@vaeternus: Yeah, they are bizarre, random and weird, that still dont mean is illogical, Seinfeild as random as it is, always acted in a way , the characters were doing some thing and there was main characters, you dont see an episode where the main character is a monkey with a lizard face one episode and the next a super serious drama, there has being tv show that had try to be illogical and bizarre, but being bizarre and illogical became their own internal logic.

That is internal logic, you confuse internal logic with storyline, plots and jokes, besides external logic.

If you are going to change things, so they never fit what they were, you should better do something new, this whole are fictional character argument is for dumb people without any skills.

Hmm, I'm not so much emphasizing on the logic vs. illogical but rather if something is realistic or just doesn't make sense. I believe something doesn't necessarily have to make sense or be realistic to be explained. Know what I mean? South Park and FG let's be honest lol, neither really use "logic" nor does Seinfeld, but they can explain something that will make you go "ohh that's why he did that" know what I mean? Aside from the randomness and comedy factor just making it funny...

Well, the Seinfeld example that's cause it was a real live TV show so unless they had great CGI that would be kind of difficult with the one show being a monkey, another A Lizard etc. They did do however kind of an alternate universe seinfeld episode once lol where they met "bizarro" versions of themselves lol. It's the one show like you said where being illogical, random can be logical in their own universe lol. As crazy as that theory may sound to some people out there. Oh I'm not confusing internal logic with plot, just saying logic in general concerning fiction at times tends to be overrated generally speaking. It's like my friend, instead of enjoying the film or show, whatever he'll question "every little thing" like dude, it's fiction...who cares? The whole point of something being fictional is to if anything not be realistic and keep an open mind. Some folks however have different preferences, high standards and are closeminded out there.

Well, the dumb people without any skills I suppose is your opinion(I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with it but apparently the poll shows most on here feel "No")I guess most feel you don't need to be realistic nor make sense if it's fictional. Which is what I was really curious about.

I just wanted to see how majority felt on here since this is something I have been pondering a while now. I can totally see various views though, I think as some stated it really depends on the story and what your aim is. If for example someone makes a movie about killer smart crocs, it would be better for them to do research on how crocs behave etc vs. someone making a movie about say a movie like Maximum Damage where a comet flies over Earth and trucks, electronic objects with wheels start killing people. Someone will always question something regardless of plot and internal logic. Believe me, my friend is living proof of that lol.

#24 Posted by JetiiMitra (8511 posts) - - Show Bio

No, not at all.

#25 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: No you pretty much confirm the fact this show follow their own internal logic all the time.

Everything made sense in their universe and its plausible in their universe.

This shows never contradict themselves.

Never have an identity crisis and the thing that happen arent never out of place

You confuse internal logic, with external logic and reallistic logic.

The internal logic is something show use so they never contradic themselves and what are they doing.

#26 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000:

You lost me on the "I confirm" part? All the time? eh? This is the first time I made a topic asking this question. I've stated in the past however I watch SP and FG though, so not sure what you're referring to. Perhaps getting me confused with someone else?

Which show never contradicts themselves?

Are you referring to Seinfeld here?

I'm not confusing internal logic with external logic, my point is any kind of logic in general is irrelevant when it comes to fiction at the end of the day. Or else you can question "everything" literally...

Many shows never contradict themselves(I didn't say any show contradicts themselves) but that being said, no show is also perfect either.

#27 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

@vaeternus: The shows never contradict themselves, Seinfeild never gets into a drama or anything else, never gets a storyline and never gets character development.

That was the internal logic of the show was to be about nothing, even in the ending they show how rock solid the internal logic of the show, the show never got a storyline and never got character development.

It never changed, nothing actually happened and the story about nothing still was about nothing.

#28 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

realistic? it's fiction, realism goes out the door when you start telling the story. for things to make sense within the story? it is imperative.

#29 Posted by Zijuun (854 posts) - - Show Bio

A lot of Marvel & DC fanboys here... So obviously they're going to say no.

I say to a point, yes it needs to be realistic or else it wouldn't make sense.

#30 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Oh yeah I agree with that, I have nothing against Seinfeld it was one of my favorite shows. I love it because of how crazy, unpredictable it is. Character development I don't think was even needed, you kind of get an idea over time(example Seinfeld was the connection that brought them all together, no doubt the smartest of the group) Elaine, the frisky yet unpredictable ex of Seinfeld and friend of all of them. Kramer, just random, crazy nuff said lol. George, arguably the dumbest of them but also unpredictable. That's probably the one thing they all had in common, unpredictable(outside of maybe Jerry) and overall random. The plots were kind of as they went along lol. That being said, I would say it was one show that didn't even need any kind of character development you know? Because you learned from a viewers perspective enough about the characters to get an understanding about each one.

I totally agree, Seinfeld was always about nothing lol that's what made it so great(to me at least) as I said others hated it...

#31 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7704 posts) - - Show Bio

If by reallistic you mean plausible and internal logic.

Yes.

People often forgets this two things, if is not plausible and has no internal logic, people is not going to belive it.

#32 Edited by gor724 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

It needs to make sense. For example the Superman movie. No, aliens with superpowers can't exist, the powers can't happen, but, even if he does go around the world fast 100 times, it won't reverse time, even in a world where Superman exists. Going around the world really fast a bunch of times would f*ck sh*t up big time. Going against the rules of that universe he lives in. And in the Superman movie universe, (The first 2), laws of physics apply.

#33 Edited by Samimista (20671 posts) - - Show Bio

Really depends on the story. I prefer consistency to realism, although you can even throw that out the window if it's the right sort of story.

This.

#34 Edited by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@gor724, well like you said it's fiction but same could be said for things like Spiderman's falling speed in Manhattan, Thor busting a planet or SA Superman's feats lol. I mean in a comic you can do virtually anything even if it's CIS or PIS, but in a movie to do those things would be kind of silly...and over the top don't ya think?

@decoyelite said:

Really depends on the story. I prefer consistency to realism, although you can even throw that out the window if it's the right sort of story.

This.

After thinking long and hard about it, I agree. Depends on the story, some would require it and others not so much.

#35 Posted by TheThe (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

It has to stick to its internal logic in my opinion. In other words, it doesnt have to be realistic, but it needs to make sense when we put the events together while adopting the storysteller point of view.

The past, the present and the future have to be linked and justified from what the reader has already accepted has postulas and/or explanations from the writer.

Other than that, a fictional can also be dumb and going from nonsense to nonsense, but this is a concept, like a metastory(a story about the usual way of storytelling) and it's not exactly the same thing.

#36 Posted by The_Tree (7283 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course your story has to make sense. It doesn't have to be realistic, though.

#37 Posted by Krazy_Carmine (92 posts) - - Show Bio

The while point of fictional is to bend all the rules of reality, people only accept this rule if its a total fantasy world, but when its for example Superman where real world elements are with the fictional elements people get to technical...at the end of the day enjoy the story for what it is, nobody want to read or watch a Superman movie that has to be bonded by laws of physics , this is why everyone on this site is here to break away from reality and enjoy world we can only feel they are real in our minds

#38 Posted by RogueShadow (10331 posts) - - Show Bio

Suspension of belief can go a long way in creating a narrative, as long as the internal logic is sound then it doesn't have to be realistic, but it does has to make sense within its own set of established rules.

#39 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@krazy_carmine: I agree on this about realism, but what about making sense, internal logic? Would you read a Superman story where he suddenly changes behaviour for no reason and he can resist kryptonite?

#40 Edited by Rainquility (66 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not believe it does have to be "realistic," at all but it doesn't hurt a story when things make a certain amount of sense. It gives the reader such as myself something to use so I can logically and rationally piece things together. So it can yes, but by no means do they "have to" by any reason. A story is after all just a story. At least to me. We all find meaning to things which others may perceive as not being there.

#41 Posted by Pyrogram (36490 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on what story you are reading really, the vibe and essence count for a lot.

#42 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I tend to need some sort of internal logic or explanations even when dealing with the most fantastic stuff, but it depends with each story, really.

#43 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

The while point of fictional is to bend all the rules of reality, people only accept this rule if its a total fantasy world, but when its for example Superman where real world elements are with the fictional elements people get to technical...at the end of the day enjoy the story for what it is, nobody want to read or watch a Superman movie that has to be bonded by laws of physics , this is why everyone on this site is here to break away from reality and enjoy world we can only feel they are real in our minds

I know right? Someone will go into the "physics, scientific" explanation if it's possible or not but forget Superman is NOT Human lol and it's fiction. Like you said, it's why everyone is here to escape reality. To Quote Ed Boon in an old interview concerning MK, the controversy, the fatalities etc. "Nobody wants to Pay for Reality"

#44 Posted by Lvenger (19293 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistic and make sense aren't too mutually inclusive concepts though.

Superman being able to fly because he gains powers under the yellow sun isn't realistic.

But when he's not in the presence of the yellow sun and THEN can still fly is when it wouldn't make sense.

(i know there are multiple sun colors, I just oversimplified it for the sake of an example)

Basically. As long as the universe sets up its own set of rules, I don't care how realistic it is, as long as they abide by those rules it will make sense and I'm happy. Its when they break their own rules when I get annoyed.

This sums up my view concisely.

#45 Posted by Shawnbaby (10640 posts) - - Show Bio

No. I get enough Realism in my daily life.

Fiction is about Escapism.

#46 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio
#47 Posted by Krazy_Carmine (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg: in those terms of superman all of a sudden not being affected by kryptonite without any explaination of a story line then no, but you can see now with DC new 52 there changing a lot of origins of characters like Mr. freeze, the women who he is trying to find the cure for who is frozen is no longer Nora his wife just random person he has an obssesion with, they seem to be just changing things cause lets face it after 80 years of some comic lines (batman superman) they need fresh stories

#48 Posted by MatteoPG (1927 posts) - - Show Bio

@krazy_carmine: not sure I get your point. I was talking about the internal logic of one story. I don't think a whole franchise reboot applies here. They wanted to try and have a fresh start, so they discontinued some of their stories altogether. I think that the thread is more about one story, long or short as it may be.

I just don't get if we are in agreement or not :)

#49 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (10256 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: No is not.

Harry Potter was about death and how the characters deal about it.

Star Wars was about impirialism, Nazism, the darkness of people and redemption.

Skyfall the most succesfull Bond movie of all time, was about Oedipus complex and the Cain and Abel complex, Bond vs his bother for the love of his mom.

Gone with the Wind the most succesfull movie of all times, actually tells people escapism is a terrible thing and punish every person that try it in the movie, the movie even gets brutal scenes to show it.

Avatar was about the so called superiority of the western society, the violent nature of humanity in hiw wish to have money and being careless to the wish of others, is about the american imperialism.

People should stop confusing Escapism with fantasy, usually escpaist fantasy does less money and people care way less about it, because the fact is you need something to care, an element that make you do the click with it.

#50 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

@matteopg: in those terms of superman all of a sudden not being affected by kryptonite without any explaination of a story line then no, but you can see now with DC new 52 there changing a lot of origins of characters like Mr. freeze, the women who he is trying to find the cure for who is frozen is no longer Nora his wife just random person he has an obssesion with, they seem to be just changing things cause lets face it after 80 years of some comic lines (batman superman) they need fresh stories

I hear what you're saying, but that's just the writer(no doubt) look at Marvel with pre ret beyonder, having Dr. Doom(a mortal that can steal omnipotent dieties powers) is really stupid, then having him fear squirrel girl lol. There's tons of PIS elements in comics, sadly it's due to the writer half the time. SA Superman was barely effected by kryptonite, one story he even eats it...lol but most versions of him he can't get near it. I agree with the newer stories for older characters gets silly after a while, the Mr. Freeze thing I totally agree with.

I feel the same way concerning Earth 2 and turning Alan Scott Gay just to make more sales, then the second issue they kill his Boyfriend anyway lol. Like ok, so no more Jade and they instantly kill his boyfriend. I see...*clicks tongue* same with Marvel and Gay marriages just to take advantage of the whole gay rights/marriage gig going on these days to coincide with the comics. Or the dumb story of Superman renouncing his American citizenship(which DC took a lot of heat for rightfully so) there wasn't any actual comic book action, story it was all a political statement which tried to change the character's core background which failed miserably, DC took it back next issue saying "he Fights for Truth, Justice and the American Way" besides we all know Superman loves Earth in general, but to make him hate on America just stupid and makes no sense unless it's an alternate universe version...(like Red Son or something)