Do You Believe In Gender Roles?

@v_scarlotte_rose:

1. women want to be payed as much for jobs that they cant do as well

2. women want to play mens sports, what about weight lifting? they will never be able to compete on an even playing field.

3. "objectifying women" Superman 6,4 bulging defined muscles,wears skin tight suit all the time "men are never objectified" woman wears reveling clothing "oh how degrading to women"

4. women in the army. no its not about being fair its about being effective and deadly in combat. am i the only one who would rather not have a girl in my squad?

men deal with the same shit we just don't bitch and moan about it.

Regarding your point about the military one I am sure they could separate squads up by gender or sexual orientation depending on them. So as to not get distracted by one another.

1. Such as?

2. I don't think many people are calling for mixed competition. Or is your issue with women doing sports that are considered to be manly?
3. Men aren't as often drawn looking sexy or sexualised, they're drawn to look how men(supposedly) would like to look. Mens costumes are less likely to show off skin.
4. If a woman can pass the training and exams to be deemed worthy of joining, then what's the problem?

@v_scarlotte_rose:

1. construction

2. they want equality in sports and im saying it just wont work an example would be weight lifting

3. what and women arent drawn how woman "want" to look?

the idle man is attractive the idle women is attractive. its simple really

4. i guess if they can meet the physical requirements then fine i just do not want them to lower the requirements.

No, it's only something that our society has built during the years, also thanks to religion. Men rule the world because of this, because they used religion and tradition and violence to create this strange habit and to make women look weaker and submitted. There aren't roles, we're all neutral, it's just that our society decides who we are, it's up to us to be strong enough to understand that we build our role by our own. I'm not being moralist, I just think that this habit of roles is the cause of sexism, but this strange fact that we tend to create roles and to categorize people according to label, is also xenophobia, homophobia and consequently femicide and other violence against minorities. And I'm not a woman, so I'm not a feminist lol I'm just expressing what I think

No

@innersuperman: 1. Nope. I see no reason why a man would automatically be better at construction than a woman.

2. I don't know what you're trying to say, could you be more specific.

3. Attractiveness shouldn't be a factor, but women are more often drawn looking 'sexy' with skimpy costumes.

Men can be feminists too. :)

@v_scarlotte_rose said:

@veitha said:

No, it's only something that our society has built during the years, also thanks to religion. Men rule the world because of this, because they used religion and tradition and violence to create this strange habit and to make women look weaker and submitted. There aren't roles, we're all neutral, it's just that our society decides who we are, it's up to us to be strong enough to understand that we build our role by our own. I'm not being moralist, I just think that this habit of roles is the cause of sexism, but this strange fact that we tend to create roles and to categorize people according to label, is also xenophobia, homophobia and consequently femicide and other violence against minorities. And I'm not a woman, so I'm not a feminist lol I'm just expressing what I think

Men can be feminists too. :)

hahaha yeah, I expressed myself badly saying that sentence. Well, I don't like feminism as much as I don't like machism, I think that it creates the same labels I was talking about in my post. Any form of extremism only leads to misunderstanding and bigotry, both from a side to the other. We should just take it easy and be ourselves and show the world that we can do whatever we want, even if we are a man or a woman (I'm not talking about fighting for our rights, I find absolutelly it correct for women to fight for their own rights, but then doing this in some ways can also be counterproductive).

While I agree with you mostly scarlotte on this subject ( everything but this one thing actually ) - its just a fact men are better at that, Men are physically more able, its not even a debate.

@pyrogram: Men might often be physically more able, but that doesn't mean that a man will automatically be better at construction. Construction isn't just about strength, it requires precision, thinking, planning, etc. Plus, everyone is different, so it's likely that there are plenty of women out there who are more capable, or stronger than men.

My point is that we should be judging individual peoples skills, not saying that men are always going to be better, because that isn't necessarily true.

@veitha:

The point of feminism is just to try and get the equality that women have been denied throughout history, in order for everyone to one day be equal and not have to fight for it. Some forms of feminism can be extreme, but mostly it's peaceful but firm, just trying to do the right thing.

You have clearly never done brick laying. Its all strength. The architects and carpenters do the planning.

@pyrogram: I've lifted a brick before, they aren't heavy.

Isn't it about applying cement precisely too?

@pyrogram:

*folds arms* I've done construction and was very good at it.

@v_scarlotte_rose: Ohh? You lifted a brick -__- Try hundreds of bricks a day for 8 hours without break.... -___-

Yes, anybody can do that.

@joygirl: *Nods* Not saying you aint :P

@pyrogram:

I once moved over a thousand pounds of cinder blocks from one spot to another as well. It's hard and it requires conditioning, which women can get just as well.

But men are naturally stronger generally, That is what I am saying. Not saying women cannot, thats stupid.

@pyrogram: I never said I personally would be good at bricklaying, and neither of us knows if I'd be good at it or not.

To be honest I probably could lift a lot of bricks for a while. It doesn't sound too difficult.

@pyrogram:

Naturally stronger yes. But that is beside the point. The point is that if women can do the same job and do it just as well, they deserve the same pay. When we were building together my brother was far, far stronger than I was or will likely ever be. But I still did my job in exactly the manner that I was supposed to. I should be paid according to the job I did, not because I am less strong. In fact I should be paid more for overcoming an obstacle.

@v_scarlotte_rose: Go do it then say its "not too difficult".... And let's stop - Are you saying women on the whole are not physically weaker on a biological level? I am NOT saying anything else. I am stating a fact. Women, biologically are not as physically able. ( not talking about pain tolerance, as women have better that - and they can store fat better for survival )

Of-course they deserve the same pay lol, I never denied that :)

@pyrogram: Well, I'm not qualified to do such a thing, so I can't just go out and lay bricks.

I'm saying that men aren't always going to be as strong and capable as women. Sometimes there'll be women who can do it better.

@pyrogram:

Oh, I got mixed up somewhere then. I thought you were saying they deserved less pay for not doing the job as well like a typical meathead. I was gonna be all, "son, i am disappoint".

@pyrogram: that's bull actually. I studied construction (theoretic and in practice) and i had several women in my class, all equal to or exceeding men. So i don't buy that for one second, the only thing they had to struggle with were preconceptions of men and they constantly proved them wrong.

@v_scarlotte_rose: You don't have to be qualified lol! You can, for training if you wanted too...Its not illegal.

99% of the time as evolution has made women will be the less able. You're just arguing for argument sake now I think. Women don't have as much muscle, men can build it quicker, testosterone is also another factor. Men are usually taller, men are usually stronger. Its not ever a debate...Sorry.

@joygirl: Aww, Nah I aint like that - Women deserve exactly the same! Sorry if you thought I meant otherwise :(

@v_scarlotte_rose: yeah, I know, I was refering to the "extreme faction" lol

@pyrogram: My point was that I have no experience, so I probably couldn't just go and do it as a job

It doesn't matter if men are "usually stronger", not all men will have the same power and strength, and sometimes women will be stronger, as not all women have the same power and strength.

My point here is that being a man does not mean that you will automatically be better at construction than a woman.

@aiden_cross: Wait I read your post wrong...never-mind I misunderstood.

@pyrogram: several examples. My teachers said the same thing. Who have been teaching for years (female teachers included). You're showing ignorance if you feel women can be just as succesful in construction because i can name many examples. It's not common to see women in construction because of the stigma. But they can be just as good at it, it's much more than just laying bricks btw. Women tend to have more of a knack for detail as well, pretty damn important on construction

I read your post wrong lol. Women can be better I was not saying otherwise - but men having natural strength is an automatic help when having to lift heavy and long.

Did he get banned again? I haven't seen him in a while...

@pyrogram: nowadays you have brick lifts etc. All kinds of tool against physical exertion and more and more are being invented. Physical strength might have mattered a lot years ago, but in the future it will matter less and less :)

@pyrogram said:

On average. In reality the difference is for the most part largely superficial and commonly over exaggerated. Polynesians and African Americans are genetically built stronger than Europeans, but thats just on average. A person actually has to know a bit about numbers and nature/nurture ideally before they start applying averages in reality especially about physiology because a lot of people who didn't understand it have made some pretty inaccurate claims and assertions in the past regarding what is naturally what. Its actually pretty easy for a motivated and determined female to make an excellent professional construction worker. In a hypothetical bubble where things like effort can be ignored when looking at how the body objectively works we can make models of physical sex that can conclude there are some common patterns and markers and as far as physical sex there are objective claims that can be made about ease of muscle growth, retention, development and so on but yeah... so what are you saying again?

The idea (not saying you are saying this) that females shouldn't be in construction has as much merit as saying only certain ethnic groups should only be in construction. On paper when projecting hypotheticals based on averages uh maybe valid, but in practice where we realize averages don't work that way given sample numbers and a lot of other factors like work experience, skill, motivation, exercise level, training? Huge equalizer, gender wise, ethnicity wise.

Personal experience isn't a good measure as far as these things go.

You clearly do not know that claims of clarity shouldn't be used to support hyperbole, that and your example goes on to factor in stamina as a huge aspect aside from strength heh heh. Which is good, since its not all strength, its a combination of things.

@aiden_cross: In small construction sites those stuff don't exist lol, The employers don't have the cash to afford them! But you are correct! New machinery does help a-lot.

I mean...cooking isn't hard guys. The instructions are right in front of you.

And ladies...just lift with your legs. You'll do fine.

@sc: Testosterone.

I don't know how to answer this question without sounding like a douche so I'll say...No but kinda yes...to an extent

@aiden_cross said:

Exactly, people have to be careful when they invoking things regarding averages in large populations, because there is a huge range available as far as characteristics within genders much like ethnicities. Lots of complicated factors going on, just in theory, but then adding in practical examples especially as far as job opportunities? There are usually far more significant factors as far as who should be doing what jobs and who can do what jobs. Construction as a profession and its gender ratio may subjectively be a gender thing, but isn't as far as objectively and in the gender sense in practice.

@pyrogram said:

Sure what about it?

Keep calm posters are beyond retarded.

@sc: I was only testing something :P I wanted too see if you would start saying why women have more/the same as men somehow >_> You passed though.

@pyrogram said:

Oh okay heh heh I am glad ^_^ but I am always right about everything. Ever. **creepy music starts playing** So you know the best fathers tend to have less testosterone than non fathers all other things equal? Its not going to create a situation where fathers are excluded from manly situations that call for excess levels of testosterone. Of course motivation helps too, like all things in life, a father may work harder than he might sans child. Motivation and experience are always big equalizers too. Anyway I think we agree, fascinating subject!

@sc: Yeah, people thought I was saying women don't deserve the same pay! LOL. I never meant that.

@pyrogram said:

To be honest I only thought you were saying that its a fact that men are better than woman at construction work, and thats what I disagree with, vehemently. Naturally males and females should be trying to eat as much sugary and fatty foods as possible, except thats a really bad idea now that our species has a huge industry that refines sugary foods and makes it really cheap and accessible to us. So depending on what means by natural and how one understands, defines, measures, compares gender differences alongside and independently from all other types of differences, the more accurate the conclusions made as far as who is better at a set number of tasks requiring any number of traits, skills and so on. In practice its not so clear cut.

It is good that you think equality should exist as far as pay all other things equal. Nice ^_^

Well...yeah, haha :p

I can't help that girl's like to make me food (;

Yes I believe in gender roles, such as a woman should a be a mother, etc.

@sc:

The only real issue I would have ( and have talked about before in detail but not in this thread ) is when for example in the UK, they have lowered the police fitness standards in the riot squad to allow women to join ( it was too high for the standard women before ) and a woman passed, got injured in the job beacuse she could not take the strain of working a 20+ our shift and fainted, hit her head and sued the Met ( London ) Police. I think, things like this women should have to go to men's standards - Its sexist no doubt but saves lives. I used that one example as an example, but its a occurrence in the UK police ( That I am involved in ) that happens OFTEN and not reported in the news.

Do you mean that all women should have children?