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#51 Posted by Cezar_TheScribe (2614 posts) - - Show Bio
#52 Edited by PowerHerc (80692 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@powerherc: What happens and what changes when an entire city goes bankrupt?

That's a great question.

The services provided through municipal taxes (police, fire, water, sewer, ambulance, street maintenance, etc.) are still expected by the populace (and rightly so by the people who've been paying their taxes) but these services cost money and by claiming they don't have the money to provide these services the questions are: Will these services continue? If they do continue, will they continue at the current level or will they be reduced? How will these services be funded? Will the Federal Government step in to provide financial aid or aid in providing the services that lapse or both?

Other questions are: Who, if anybody, will be held accountable? Can taxpayers trust whomever is put in charge of trying to fix Detroit? Will they money spent to help Detroit be paid back? How will the citizens of Detroit react? Will there be another era of flight from the city? What becomes of the pensioners who earned their pension benefits and are now to old to start over let alone the fact that they shouldn't have to? What precedents will this set regarding how cities go bankrupt? Will the bankruptcy of Detroit become the model for how other cities get out from under their financial obligations to their current and retired employees?

There are so many more questions to be asked. I can speculate how many will be answered but I don't have any actual answers. I do feel the problems of Detroit city could be a microcosm of what the United States of America, as a whole, may yet face in the future when the Federal Government defaults on the national debt. The whole world will feel the impact of that.

#53 Edited by joshmightbe (24443 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe: South Africa is probably the most economically secure as it has ever been since apartheid ended and the overwhelming black majority began electing black leaders.

#54 Posted by Z3RO180 (6250 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: that's when a hero arrive from the shades. A dark Knight ever vigilant. A dark crusader prowling the streets looking for criminal. Beware the Bat-man of Detroit

#55 Posted by PowerHerc (80692 posts) - - Show Bio

@z3ro180 said:

@powerherc: that's when a hero arrive from the shades. A dark Knight ever vigilant. A dark crusader prowling the streets looking for criminal. Beware the Bat-man of Detroit

Lol. Yeah, that might do the trick. ;)

#56 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe: Even if you're white, I can't disagree with you. Facts are facts, at least when it comes to the ghetto that Detroit became. I haven't seen too many prosperous ghettos, and I sure as hell haven't seen too many Republican ones.

#57 Posted by laflux (13692 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty said:

@powerherc: What happens and what changes when an entire city goes bankrupt?

That's a great question.

The services provided through municipal taxes (police, fire, water, sewer, ambulance, street maintenance, etc.) are still expected by the populace (and rightly so by the people who've been paying their taxes) but these services cost money and by claiming they don't have the money to provide these services the questions are: Will these services continue? If they do continue, will they continue at the current level or will they be reduced? How will these services be funded? Will the Federal Government step in to provide financial aid or aid in providing the services that lapse or both?

Other questions are: Who, if anybody, will be held accountable? Can taxpayers trust whomever is put in charge of trying to fix Detroit? Will they money spent to help Detroit be paid back? How will the citizens of Detroit react? Will there be another era of flight from the city? What becomes of the pensioners who earned their pension benefits and are now to old to start over let alone the fact that they shouldn't have to? What precedents will this set regarding how cities go bankrupt? Will the bankruptcy of Detroit become the model for how other cities get out from under their financial obligations to their current and retired employees?

There are so many more questions to be asked. I can speculate how many will be answered but I don't have any actual answers. I do feel the problems of Detroit city could be a microcosm of what the United States of America, as a whole, may yet face in the future when the Federal Government defaults on the national debt. The whole world will feel the impact of that.

*applauds*

#58 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio
Have a nice day!!!

#59 Posted by joshmightbe (24443 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe: Even if you're white, I can't disagree with you. Facts are facts, at least when it comes to the ghetto that Detroit became. I haven't seen too many prosperous ghettos, and I sure as hell haven't seen too many Republican ones.

Trailer parks are generally just as bad as ghettos, trust me I've lived in a few. Those are usually mostly white folks so how does that fit the theory?

#60 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

It's sad time for Detroit and other cities on the brink of filing for bankruptcy in the States.

#61 Edited by TheAuroraChild (85 posts) - - Show Bio

@cezar_thescribe said:

@joshmightbe said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

A black Democrat ran city goes bankrupt? Who saw that coming? I did!

Just saying that when Detroit was majority white it ran fine.

Did you miss the last 40 or so years when Detroit has been pretty much unanimously considered a hell hole by everyone other than ICP and Kid Rock?

I don't care what those people have to say.

I knew what it was when I saw the pictures.

The Abandoned City of Detroit - Photography: Zach Fein

@theaurorachild said:

@cezar_thescribe said:

A black Democrat ran city goes bankrupt? Who saw that coming? I did!

Just saying that when Detroit was majority white it ran fine.

Take your ignorance somewhere else.

There's no ignorance on my part.

I have seen pictures and video of Detroit then and now.

Edit: Actually, I think that the decay of Detroit can't be blamed on Black politicians. All the jobs there were just transferred over to China and the government probably didn't do anything to convince the companies to keep jobs there.

#62 Edited by superstay (9623 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc:

Wow, I'm very surprised to see a american city fall into that type of dept; But I could perfectly understand. After the 50s-60s, the city has been falling badly, and I don't think it will be fixed and time soon. Once one of the U.S's best cities, is now in the worst state of the country (I hope I didn't offend any Detroiters)

dU-Ub

#63 Posted by superstay (9623 posts) - - Show Bio

A black Democrat ran city goes bankrupt? Who saw that coming? I did!

Just saying that when Detroit was majority white it ran fine.

d0.0b

#64 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7561 posts) - - Show Bio

That's crazy, 18 billion.

#65 Edited by kuonphobos (4775 posts) - - Show Bio

Regarding urban decay this has been happening in the "Rust Belt" for quite some time. Just Google images of Gary Indiana and other once prosperous cities which border the Great Lakes.

Globalization of manufacturing, rapid transition from a manufacturing based economy to a tech/service based economy, government and union corruption and wholesale shifts in consumer behavior has led to this over a period of decades.

Whenever I hear those ever increasing commercials about "reverse mortgages" as they state that these are "government backed" loans I always have to ask "but who insures the government?"

We need to take a good look at just what it is we think our governments should be doing for us and then ask if given the temptations of human nature (corruption) and the vast bureaucracy needed for the management of such a colossal enterprise are governments capable of living up to their side of the bargain.

Our founders never intended for the government to become the savior of society. Nothing is free except one's own desire and ability to work their ass off. And even then some start from behind and nasty storms arise. But who insures the insurer?

#66 Posted by joshmightbe (24443 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuonphobos: NAFTA did way more damage to Detroit than any Black Politician ever did because GM can make more profit by paying Mexican auto workers about a third of what American workers expect and their taxes on their factories are much lower down there. And just so people know the North American Free Trade Act was a bi-partisan act of congress.

#67 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

#68 Posted by jointron33 (1902 posts) - - Show Bio
#69 Posted by joshmightbe (24443 posts) - - Show Bio

@jointron33: So basically what you and @cezar_thescrib are saying is that you believe a black majority is the sole reason for the state of Detroit and the fact that the auto manufacturers that the entire economy of the city was built upon abandoned the place has nothing to do with it? If so I have to say you're both not only racist but idiotic as well.

#70 Posted by kuonphobos (4775 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuonphobos: NAFTA did way more damage to Detroit than any Black Politician ever did because GM can make more profit by paying Mexican auto workers about a third of what American workers expect and their taxes on their factories are much lower down there. And just so people know the North American Free Trade Act was a bi-partisan act of congress.

NAFTA would fall into the globalization category would it not?

And I never stated or supported any agreement with the notion that Black Politicians had anything to do specifically with Detroit's predicament. Corruption is color blind. I just wanted to be clear.

Your statements remind me of Ross Perot's comments to the effect of "What's that suckin' sound?" Of course he was referring to the looming NAFTA agreement being spearheaded by Clinton.

#71 Posted by joshmightbe (24443 posts) - - Show Bio

@kuonphobos: I know I was agreeing with you on the globalization thing.

#72 Posted by kuonphobos (4775 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe:

Sorry. Don't know why I chose to read it as a rebuttal.

Gun shy from other topics I suppose.

#73 Edited by PowerHerc (80692 posts) - - Show Bio

Detroit generated and was crushed under the weight of it's colossal fiscal problems for several reasons that will no doubt be debated along predictable political and racial lines. That accomplishes nothing. The fact that the city is in dire straits remains.

No amount of finger-pointing will help Detroit. No acceptance of blame will either. If the political leaders at the local, state and federal levels continue their largely dysfunctional performance then the future of Detroit is even more bleak than anyone can predict. The people of and municipal retirees of Detroit deserve better than what their corporate, political and community leaders have given/done for them.

This is a time for true leadership, not more meaningless political platitudes given only for purpose of winning elections and not more typical business vs labor disputes. Will a such a leader emerge? I don't know, but It'd sure be nice if one did.

#74 Posted by Outside_85 (8012 posts) - - Show Bio

Sad to see, but I suppose it was inevitable that a city thats been fueled, primarily, by lower paying manual labor jobs would collapse in step with those jobs being moved to either Mexico or China where it was much cheaper.

I agree with PowerHerc, pointing at one group of politicians or whatever, isn't going to help, even if you could, this fall has been going on for decades, Detroit just finally admitted it.

How to fix it... educate people to take other kinds of jobs and provide fertile grounds to start new business ventures.

#75 Posted by PowerHerc (80692 posts) - - Show Bio

It's only been a few days week since this happened and there's no more mention of it. Typical of the sensationalistic U.S. media.

The royal birth, Kardshian-ex, Anthony Weiner, etc. are all over the news but real news stories have no shelf-life at all.

#76 Edited by Durakken (1593 posts) - - Show Bio

Detroit is for the most part dying because everything that was once great about it took off and all the new things that Michigan has tried to bring in has pretty much decided to stay faaaar away from Detroit... Along with the fact that the education system in detroit has been bad, all the government there is corrupt, and detroit is more religious nutty than one might think... Along with the racism from all sides v.v and a complete unwillingness to take action nor responsibility... Could the result be anything else? There is no financial investment or educational investment in detroit which is sad as it was at one time one of the greatest cities culturally in the world... Music, Sports, Cars, Import/Export... To this day it nearly guaranteed that if you live there you probably know someone that is or is related to someone famous or on their way to being famous or is striving to be some sort of creative star. And there are rich and famous people all over the metro-detroit area.

Detroit is probably the greatest place anyone could ever hope to have access to on Earth at any point in history in terms of natural resources and positioning and so it is just sad and a bit sickening to see that it is becoming this necrotic pile of wasted potential... There really is no excuse for us as a world to have let Detroit go the way it has. Oh well, maybe in a few decades we'll be able to fix it along with the rest of the planet.

#77 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

It's only been a few days week since this happened and there's no more mention of it. Typical of the sensationalistic U.S. media.

The royal birth, Kardshian-ex, Anthony Weiner, etc. are all over the news but real news stories have no shelf-life at all.

Painful, but true.

#78 Posted by russellmania77 (14403 posts) - - Show Bio

Except eminem

#79 Posted by PowerHerc (80692 posts) - - Show Bio

Except eminem

I wonder what his take is on Detroit's bankruptcy. Kid Rock's, too.