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#1 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

after putting my fist through yet another TV set i am going to talk to you about the republican party's issues with the separation of church and state.

1. without blind or ignorant hate or dislike OR religion (which is not supposed to take part in the law making of our country) why should gay marriage be illegal?

2. why should abortion be illegal? religious reasons should not even be mentioned SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! just because you and your religion says its bad dos not mean you can force everybody else to follow the same rules.

3. why do you use god as an argument or the threat of hell to scare people when religion is not supposed to have any part in politics?

answer all three, i doubt you can without looking like a fool.

#2 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

#3 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: Is he mad because a political group that constantly claims that amendments of the same constitution that states the Church and State are separate is a sacred document keep ignoring the first paragraph of said document? Is that what you're asking?

#4 Edited by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't give involved in politics..it's always the same. Either republicans b*tching about democrats or democrats bitching about republicans. Besides two of the things he said don't even need religion for them to be against it..Just because one's against gay marriage or abortion doesn't automatically mean religion is their reason why

#5 Posted by cattlebattle (12275 posts) - - Show Bio

Its because Republicans still think its the 1940s....and they hold dear anything that favors the illogical

#6 Posted by pooty (10321 posts) - - Show Bio

1) marriage as defined in the law is between a man and woman. you have to change the wording in order to change the law.

2) very few actually use religion as a reason to be against abortion. Religious people are just the loudest. The Bible doesn't say anything about abortion. In fact, the Bible says there are reasons to stone(kill) a child.

3) very few people do that. No one is scared of hell. if they were people would act much different.

#7 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: Well religion is 90% of the reason people are against gay marriage to begin with.

#8 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

#9 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: Well religion is 90% of the reason people are against gay marriage to begin with.

And? It's their rights as Americans to stand against what they don't believe in. That would still leave a 10% that don't use religion thus meaning that religion still isn't the only reason people are against it:)

#10 Posted by Night Thrasher (3448 posts) - - Show Bio

@innersuperman: Allow me to play devil's advocate for just a moment. I will let it be known that I do agree with you on these issues though.

1. Separation of Church and State isn't the seperation of religion from our ruling doctrines. Essentially what seperation of church and state does is prohibits any religious body from controlling the government directly (i.e. the Holy Roman Empire). It prevents us from having some Holy figure as our leader rather than an elected citizen that represents the will of the people.

2. That being said; what lawmakers are supposed to be (especially our House of Representatives) is a voice of the will of the people he represents want. If a congressman represents a district that is 99% Evangelical Christian that religion says that abortion should be illegal then he vote that way according to the religion and especially the will of the people. Where the problem occurs is the overwhelming majority of people in the United States are self described Christians but a majority of them don't think abortion should be illegal. What our congress is doing is voting on the doctrines as opposed as to what the people actually want.

3. That being said the seperation of church and state also keeps us from discriminating based on religion. When people are using GOD as an argument in our congress what they are really arguing as if 100% of the people they represent are devout followers of a religious text and that the text is their will. I feel that most Republicans are voting that way because a good portion of their base consists of Evangelical Christians and Tea Parties. These groups may or may not be a majority of the party but they are definitely the loudest.

#11 Posted by InnerSuperman (858 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty:

1. if its that simple why does it bother you so much that people want to change it?

does the changing or the definition of marriage affect you in a negative way?

are you sure thats not just a mask you put over your blind homophobia?

2. i hear dozens of religious people say "god hates abortion!!!" everyday so dont tell me nobody does it.

3. i have at one point seen with my own eyes people trying to scare the "gay" out of people with threats of going to hell. get the shi* outta hear

#12 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

#13 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I still have no idea what the anti-gay people are taking a stand against really, there's no proof what so ever that being gay is actually harmful in any way. If you were taking a stand against pedophiles or bestiality I could understand it but what possible harm to society are a couple of consenting adults who happen to be the same gender and want to be together could cause. Its not like homosexuality is a new thing, its been a part of human culture for as long as we've had culture if not longer so obviously its not some culture killing phenomenon.

#14 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

Never say never, besides, I like to have an optimistic future.

#15 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: Gay marriage is legal in some states already.

#16 Edited by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I still have no idea what the anti-gay people are taking a stand against really, there's no proof what so ever that being gay is actually harmful in any way. If you were taking a stand against pedophiles or bestiality I could understand it but what possible harm to society are a couple of consenting adults who happen to be the same gender and want to be together could cause. Its not like homosexuality is a new thing, its been a part of human culture for as long as we've had culture if not longer so obviously its not some culture killing phenomenon.

You don't have to understand it..their reasons are their reasons and part of their rights are being able to defend those reasons. It's more wrong to force everyone to accept it then to let people have free will and choose what they want or not want to support.

#17 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

I'm sure people used to say the same thing about interracial marriage.

#18 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@gambit474: Gay marriage is legal in some states already.

30% of the population live in states with full reign on gay marriage, and statistics have consistently shown the public in favor of gay marriage by over 50%, and for those outliers at least the majority in support. Don't worry, the future is looking bright.

#19 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

Never say never, besides, I like to have an optimistic future.

If you think gay marriage will fly amongst the bible belt then I'd be ready for a good laugh. Interracial is different inner..You try to force gay marriage on everyone and you're going to wind up having a conflict on your hands. Whether you like it or not people are entitled to stand up against gay marriage

#20 Posted by Night Thrasher (3448 posts) - - Show Bio

I think one day we will have a very progressive Supreme Court and that court will make a landmark ruling that will essentially make gay marriage legal across the nation.

Just off the top of my head, if a couple gets married in one state and moves to a state where gay marriage isn't recognized. If in that circumstance something happens or the spouse of a primary on the insurance gets dropped from coverage because of state laws then that could open the door for litigation that would essentially make gay marriage legal across all 50 states.

#21 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I don't want to force any opinions or life styles on anyone but I just don't understand why people demanding not to have things forced on them wants to force their life style on the gay people and can't see the hypocrisy in that.

#22 Posted by ccraft (3962 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

Never say never, besides, I like to have an optimistic future.

Agreed, the next generation will change things for the better.

#23 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

Never say never, besides, I like to have an optimistic future.

If you think gay marriage will fly amongst the bible belt then I'd be ready for a good laugh. Interracial is different inner..You try to force gay marriage on everyone and you're going to wind up having a conflict on your hands. Whether you like it or not people are entitled to stand up against gay marriage

Interracial marriage is different because the racists are the minority, and soon the homophobics will be too. And I'm not saying you can't have a thing against gays, but what I'm saying is you're not gonna get your way.

#24 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Isn't it nice to have an optimistic viewpoint on some issue in the world? Haha

#25 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

Never say never, besides, I like to have an optimistic future.

If you think gay marriage will fly amongst the bible belt then I'd be ready for a good laugh. Interracial is different inner..You try to force gay marriage on everyone and you're going to wind up having a conflict on your hands. Whether you like it or not people are entitled to stand up against gay marriage

Interracial marriage is different because the racists are the minority, and soon the homophobics will be too. And I'm not saying you can't have a thing against gays, but what I'm saying is you're not gonna get your way.

Oh how wrong you are. Smh..Gay marriage will never be legal across all states in our life times

#26 Posted by CrouchingTiger (148 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: you are correct. Each side is full of crybabies.

@innersuperman: 1. I don't support gay marriage, that being said, I get along great with gay people. Politically, however, the FEDERAL government should not define what marriage is or isn't for ANYONE, be they gay or straight. It should be up to the individuals

2. I don't ever hear religious reasons given against abortion (usually). Typically, the argument is whether life begins at conception or not, is it murder or not, is it a person that deserves rights or not, etc.

This thread is as if you watched a clip of the westboro baptist church, or some catholics at an abortion clinic, and decided to lump all republicans into that category. That's just ignorant.

#27 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

Gay marriage is gaining public support whether people like it or not, abortion is legal, and hell is overrated.

gay marriage will never be legal amongst all 50 states whether people like it or not

Never say never, besides, I like to have an optimistic future.

If you think gay marriage will fly amongst the bible belt then I'd be ready for a good laugh. Interracial is different inner..You try to force gay marriage on everyone and you're going to wind up having a conflict on your hands. Whether you like it or not people are entitled to stand up against gay marriage

Interracial marriage is different because the racists are the minority, and soon the homophobics will be too. And I'm not saying you can't have a thing against gays, but what I'm saying is you're not gonna get your way.

Oh how wrong you are. Smh..Gay marriage will never be legal across all states in our life times

Oh please, spare me.

#28 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I'm not the one who's against gay marriage, and please, the next time any political voting comes up I'll be of legal age and ready to vote just fine. I never said bad things won't happen, but I do say that gay marriage will happen. If you don't accept that, then oh well. You're the minority.

#32 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh shut up kiddo..I know the truth hurts but you need to accept it. If you think that nothing bad will happen if they try to force gay marriage across all 50 states then you're living in a dream world

I've noticed you call people "kid" or "kiddo" often. Does this make you feel important?

#33 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: Why are you so against it, its not like they're making marry a dude or making straight marriage illegal?

#35 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29331 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I've also noticed that you don't know how to use the reply system on this website.

You also flaunt knowledge of words claiming we don't know their meaning, even though we can easily Google them ("Fear of other people's opinions", by the way), so I have come to one conclusion.

You are our new Elder! Welcome, Elder! Welcome to our community.

#36 Posted by Dernman (13997 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: you are correct. Each side is full of crybabies.

@innersuperman:

This thread is as if you watched a clip of the westboro baptist church, or some catholics at an abortion clinic, and decided to lump all republicans into that category. That's just ignorant.


Heck most Republicans dislike the westboro church.

Online
#37 Posted by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474: I'm not the one who's against gay marriage, and please, the next time any political voting comes up I'll be of legal age and ready to vote just fine. I never said bad things won't happen, but I do say that gay marriage will happen. If you don't accept that, then oh well. You're the minority.

Lol come to where I live and see how much of a "minority" I am. There's nothing wrong with me being against gay marriage..It's people like you who are the problem. "Homophobe"..Such an abused word these days,however a word that can be used to describe ones such as yourself would be an allodoxaphobe..though I doubt you know what that word means

Come to where I live, and you'll see what I mean. I never said you couldn't hate gay people, hate em all you want. You can have your opinion, my opinion is the exact opposite of yours and mine just happens to be with the majority of this country.

By the way, don't get condescending insinuating I don't know the definition of a word, kinda rude "kiddo".

#38 Posted by Xanni15 (6756 posts) - - Show Bio

2. why should abortion be illegal? religious reasons should not even be mentioned SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! just because you and your religion says its bad dos not mean you can force everybody else to follow the same rules.

Actually, outside of special circumstances (like rape, the rare occurrence of a contraceptive not working, etc.) why should it be legal, and I'm not even bringing religious reasons into it? There's literally no reason for someone to not use a condom, birth control, or another form or contraceptive, especially when you consider you can get them all for free at various places. Being a cheap ass is no excuse, lack of education unfortunately is. Why put yourself at risk for an STD, as well as getting pregnant if you don't want a child and intend to just kill it? I just did a quick Google search and found a couple of websites which stated that an abortion cost at least $350, that's like over 300 times more than a condom if you pay for it. 0.0

#39 Edited by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474: I'm not the one who's against gay marriage, and please, the next time any political voting comes up I'll be of legal age and ready to vote just fine. I never said bad things won't happen, but I do say that gay marriage will happen. If you don't accept that, then oh well. You're the minority.

Lol come to where I live and see how much of a "minority" I am. There's nothing wrong with me being against gay marriage..It's people like you who are the problem. "Homophobe"..Such an abused word these days,however a word that can be used to describe ones such as yourself would be an allodoxaphobe..though I doubt you know what that word means

Come to where I live, and you'll see what I mean. I never said you couldn't hate gay people, hate em all you want. You can have your opinion, my opinion is the exact opposite of yours and mine just happens to be with the majority of this country.

By the way, don't get condescending insinuating I don't know the definition of a word, kinda rude "kiddo".

so now you're changing my words..Not once have I ever stated that I hate gay people,but that's the thing about people like you..As soon as you see that we're against it you assume we hate it too. I don't care if I'm the minority..that just means I'm not one of the tools who've jumped the band wagon for gay marriage. Majority of this country..lol keep lying to yourself

#40 Edited by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474 said:

@hbktimhbk said:

@gambit474: I'm not the one who's against gay marriage, and please, the next time any political voting comes up I'll be of legal age and ready to vote just fine. I never said bad things won't happen, but I do say that gay marriage will happen. If you don't accept that, then oh well. You're the minority.

Lol come to where I live and see how much of a "minority" I am. There's nothing wrong with me being against gay marriage..It's people like you who are the problem. "Homophobe"..Such an abused word these days,however a word that can be used to describe ones such as yourself would be an allodoxaphobe..though I doubt you know what that word means

Come to where I live, and you'll see what I mean. I never said you couldn't hate gay people, hate em all you want. You can have your opinion, my opinion is the exact opposite of yours and mine just happens to be with the majority of this country.

By the way, don't get condescending insinuating I don't know the definition of a word, kinda rude "kiddo".

I'm kind of Okay with being called kiddo, it lets me pretend I have good knees and I'm not going bald for a second or two.

#41 Edited by HBKTimHBK (5210 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I'm 16, he was accurate, it was just condescending.

#42 Edited by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I'm 16, he wasn't inaccurate, it was just condescending.

Are you trying to say you're not a kid because you're 16? Actually you still are a kid,regardless of being a teen. Also a majority of the time teenagers can't be taken seriously in debates because they naturally have a "know it all" attitude,which is why you hear commercials about talking to teens about drinking or w.e because they'll ignore their parents because they "know it all"

#43 Posted by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I think its just the fact that you seem to assume you're older and wiser than everyone you speak to. I'm not saying you actually think that way but the way you word things heavily implies an air of perceived superiority that can make people angry.

#44 Edited by NovaRichRider (327 posts) - - Show Bio

The way I see it is both sides play on peoples' opposing social issues to get bills passed that always include more government spending, increased taxes, and earmarks. Meanwhile debt is worse, unemployment is bad, and the politicians are living it up.

#45 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I think its just the fact that you seem to assume you're older and wiser than everyone you speak to. I'm not saying you actually think that way but the way you word things heavily implies an air of perceived superiority that can make people angry.

I don't consider myself superior. I do however consider myself being harassed for stating the way I feel which is exactly what's wrong with the world today. Nobody's allowed to stand up against what they don't support anymore and everyone's suppose to be forced to "accept" it and if they're against it then "too bad!". All these problems that go on in America and gay marriage is at the top of the list? Absolute BS. No wonder other countries make fun of us

#46 Edited by joshmightbe (24101 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I'm not harassing you, I was just asking for an explanation of your opinion. Wasn't trying to change it, I was just trying to understand where you were coming from.

#47 Posted by Gambit474 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambit474: I'm not harassing you, I was just asking for an explanation of your opinion. Wasn't trying to change it, I was just trying to understand where you were coming from.

I didn't say you were..I was implying the others like hbk and inner. I'm not open with my reasons because I know someone would try to harass me about it or criticize me because it wouldn't be the same opinion as theirs.

#48 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7118 posts) - - Show Bio

If gays want to get married, let'em do it. Whatever happened to 'Land of the Free"?.

Abortion? Eh, I don't really like it. You gon have sex, be prepared for the consequences. My friend got his g/f pregnant when she was 15 and he was 17. They were really close to getting an abortion, but at the last moment (and I mean sitting in the parking lot of the clinic last moment) they decided not to. Now they have a daughter that's 6 years old and that little girl is his life. Thousands of people out there that would do anything to be able to have children. Having unprotected sex all the time and getting pregnant then just having a simple abortion is sort of a slap to those peoples face. Adoption, people! Adoption.

So all republicans threaten everyone with Hell? What? I'm not going to address this one. Kind of.....stupid.

There. I didn't sound like an idiot. That was easy, guy.

#49 Edited by pooty (10321 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty:

1. if its that simple why does it bother you so much that people want to change it?

does the changing or the definition of marriage affect you in a negative way?

are you sure thats not just a mask you put over your blind homophobia?

2. i hear dozens of religious people say "god hates abortion!!!" everyday so dont tell me nobody does it.

3. i have at one point seen with my own eyes people trying to scare the "gay" out of people with threats of going to hell. get the shi* outta hear

1) Please point to where i said it bothers me? I would love to see it with my own eyes instead of taking your word for it.

nope. let them suffer like the rest

my homophobia has 20/20 vision

2) Did I say no one says it or very few? my post is above for reference

3) AGAIN FOR THE THIRD TIME YOU MISQUOTE ME! Did I say it never happens?

@gambit474: Well religion is 90% of the reason people are against gay marriage to begin with.

Do you have any stats to back up that statement? Even without religion people would still call it un-natural. still say marriage is for procreation( which is NOT stated in the Bible), men would still think gays are " sissies". In fact recent Pell polls show that 60% of religious people have no problem with it.

#50 Posted by Reignmaker (2224 posts) - - Show Bio
answer all three, i doubt you can without looking like a fool.

It's clear you're just begging for a fight, rather than rational discussion. I'm sure someone will give it to you though.