Creationism vs. Evolution

I was just stopped outside my local grocery store by a pamphleteer, he was handing out brochures claiming that science has now favoring creationism over evolution as the ‘new common belief’’. The last page read in big bold letters ‘WE ARE ALL SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF ONE TRUE GOD”.

On the way out he stopped me and asked what I thought. I asked him if it were possible that maybe something other than a Christian god created us. Maybe it was Zeus or aliens. He laughed, and asked if he could call me, I said no and walked away. He shouted his number at me and promised that he could change my mind with one conversation.

Is it just me or is the whole ‘creationism’ thing just something being pushed by religious types? Are there any scientist or people in the know- outside of the church that actually view and pursue this theory?

Well, if you believe in creationism, you would logically be a church goer since one of the fundamental tennets of creationism is that God (as viewed from a Judeo-Christian perspective) created the world. So there should (theoretically) be no one outside the church who believes it.

Cosmic Sentinel says:

"Well, if you believe in creationism, you would logically be a church goer since one of the fundamental tennets of creationism is that God (as viewed from a Judeo-Christian perspective) created the world. So there should (theoretically) be no one outside the church who believes it. "

So there are NO un-biased, non religious types that believe in intelligent design? I’m far from religious, but I’m willing to entertain the thought of a higher power. It doesn’t have to be “God” does it?

Well, the one religion that has to be stated in here is the cult that believes we were all created by a giant spaghetti monster.

[img]http://fashiontribes.typepad.com/main/images/flying_spaghetti_monster_painting.jpg[/img]

a bit of bofe

Iron Apollo says:

"a bit of bofe"

What's a bofe?

thats english for both, sorry a quote only my friends would get. But what about evolution in a world created by a being who made the rules. The rules designed to give it the proper outcomes being looked for.

Iron Apollo says:

"thats english for both, sorry a quote only my friends would get. But what about evolution in a world created by a being who made the rules. The rules designed to give it the proper outcomes being looked for."

The big bang.

Oh dear, don't even get me started. I have a lot of knowledge about cosmology, the big bang and all that. I'm the least likely advocate for creationism since I think it's a load of dingoes kidneys. My question is exactly the same as Apollo but from a more scientific background. The whole universe is fine-tuned to be here, why? What made it so perfect when everything in it seems arbitrary.

Iron Apollo says:

"thats english for both, sorry a quote only my friends would get. But what about evolution in a world created by a being who made the rules. The rules designed to give it the proper outcomes being looked for."

You mean like, our lives and the lives of everything in the universe have a predetermined outcome? Thats a depressing thought.

Walkingstone says:

"Oh dear, don't even get me started. I have a lot of knowledge about cosmology, the big bang and all that. I'm the least likely advocate for creationism since I think it's a load of dingoes kidneys. My question is exactly the same as Apollo but from a more scientific background. The whole universe is fine-tuned to be here, why? What made it so perfect when everything in it seems arbitrary."

Chance. There are a billion billion stars out there with any number of planets of varying distances and sizes. even if one in a 100 million are capable of supporting life, we would have millions.

More like, why, if everything in this universe is random, does it even exist at all? Cosmology, the big bang and the theories that are currently in fashion for it all are so finely tuned that random chance is so unlikely. So why are we here?

Walkingstone says:

"More like, why, if everything in this universe is random, does it even exist at all? Cosmology, the big bang and the theories that are currently in fashion for it all are so finely tuned that random chance is so unlikely. So why are we here?"

A random chain of events, simple, there is no big mystery, no puppet master orchestrating our existence, there is chance and random events that shape everything.

Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"thats english for both, sorry a quote only my friends would get. But what about evolution in a world created by a being who made the rules. The rules designed to give it the proper outcomes being looked for."

You mean like, our lives and the lives of everything in the universe have a predetermined outcome? Thats a depressing thought. "

No, more like the universe is put together by a perfect science, math (my most dreaded adversary), and in this universe of math there is still chaos, but all of which is limited to the rules of the game. so what if there is both creationism at a scale that couldn't be put into words properly thousands of years ago (maybe still not now), and there is the modern interpretaion of big bangs & evolution.
Post Edited:2007-07-07 15:44:24

It's hard to explain without getting bogged down in the serious science but the probabilities are stacked against this universe existing at all. Seriously, we shouldn't be here if science is right.

Gambler says:

"Walkingstone says:

"More like, why, if everything in this universe is random, does it even exist at all? Cosmology, the big bang and the theories that are currently in fashion for it all are so finely tuned that random chance is so unlikely. So why are we here?"

A random chain of events, simple, there is no big mystery, no puppet master orchestrating our existence, there is chance and random events that shape everything."

then how can everything be explained scientifically and mathmatically

There is chaos to a certain degree, but everything in the universe still has rules to follow like gravity, magnetism and its these rules that keeps the universe from total chaos. other wise we would have a foggy universe in which all matter would be spread out evenly and not in these neat shears and rocks and such.

Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Walkingstone says:

"More like, why, if everything in this universe is random, does it even exist at all? Cosmology, the big bang and the theories that are currently in fashion for it all are so finely tuned that random chance is so unlikely. So why are we here?"

A random chain of events, simple, there is no big mystery, no puppet master orchestrating our existence, there is chance and random events that shape everything."

then how can everything be explained scientifically and mathmatically"

It can't. The world's greatest minds are struggling with this very concept and our universe, at the present time, can't be fully and satisfactorily explained with all of the information we have at our disposal

Anybody believe in string theory?

Walkingstone says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Walkingstone says:

"More like, why, if everything in this universe is random, does it even exist at all? Cosmology, the big bang and the theories that are currently in fashion for it all are so finely tuned that random chance is so unlikely. So why are we here?"

A random chain of events, simple, there is no big mystery, no puppet master orchestrating our existence, there is chance and random events that shape everything."

then how can everything be explained scientifically and mathmatically"

It can't. The world's greatest minds are struggling with this very concept and our universe, at the present time, can't be fully and satisfactorily explained with all of the information we have at our disposal"

True, but the world around us can be, and with time why wouldn't the rest of things be able to be explained, just cause the universe might seem flat right now doesn't mean with time and enlightenment that it still will be.

Noir_Dark says:

"There is chaos to a certain degree, but everything in the universe still has rules to follow like gravity, magnetism and its these rules that keeps the universe from total chaos. other wise we would have a foggy universe in which all matter would be spread out evenly and not in these neat shears and rocks and such. "

yes, which makes you wonder how was it all put together so well, if by chance, hmm maybe there is something else

Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles.

Iron Apollo says:

"Noir_Dark says:

"There is chaos to a certain degree, but everything in the universe still has rules to follow like gravity, magnetism and its these rules that keeps the universe from total chaos. other wise we would have a foggy universe in which all matter would be spread out evenly and not in these neat shears and rocks and such. "

yes, which makes you wonder how was it all put together so well, if by chance, hmm maybe there is something else

"

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

what is this men in black

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

I'm not saying its not, and wouldn't god technically be an alien

Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

OR maybe our Earth is only the nucleus of an atom (maybe the sun?) and all the stars and planets are nothing more than atoms of bacteria collecting on marbles.

Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

what is this men in black

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

I'm not saying its not, and wouldn't god technically be an alien"

Ya, but maybe they are no more evolved then we are, they just figured out a way of creating life.

Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

what is this men in black

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

I'm not saying its not, and wouldn't god technically be an alien"

Ya, but maybe they are no more evolved then we are, they just figured out a way of creating life. "

then they would be more evolved than us, unless they created us through cloning, but still they would have to get us to a planet they didn't live on. or live among us for thousands of years without us knowing, either way they are more evolved than us, they can do things we can't, one of the parts of evolution
Post Edited:2007-07-07 16:10:20

Iron Apollo says:

"Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

what is this men in black

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

I'm not saying its not, and wouldn't god technically be an alien"

Ya, but maybe they are no more evolved then we are, they just figured out a way of creating life. "

then they would be more evolved than us, unless they created us through cloning, but still they would have to get us to a planet they didn't live on or live among us for thousands of years without us knowing, either way they are more evolved than us, they can do things we can't, one of the parts of evolution"

They don't have to be more evolved than us. Just have better technology.

Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

what is this men in black

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

I'm not saying its not, and wouldn't god technically be an alien"

Ya, but maybe they are no more evolved then we are, they just figured out a way of creating life. "

then they would be more evolved than us, unless they created us through cloning, but still they would have to get us to a planet they didn't live on or live among us for thousands of years without us knowing, either way they are more evolved than us, they can do things we can't, one of the parts of evolution"

They don't have to be more evolved than us. Just have better technology. "

better technology usually means an evolution of the mind, and yes that would mean we arn't the same people we were 100 years ago we've evolved

Iron Apollo says:

"Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Noir_Dark says:

"Iron Apollo says:

"Gambler says:

"Maybe the planets are just some aliens marble collection and where bacteria on the marbles."

what is this men in black

I'm not opposed to the idea of a creator, but why does it have to be God or a god. Why can't it be aliens?

I'm not saying its not, and wouldn't god technically be an alien"

Ya, but maybe they are no more evolved then we are, they just figured out a way of creating life. "

then they would be more evolved than us, unless they created us through cloning, but still they would have to get us to a planet they didn't live on or live among us for thousands of years without us knowing, either way they are more evolved than us, they can do things we can't, one of the parts of evolution"

They don't have to be more evolved than us. Just have better technology. "

better technology usually means an evolution of the mind, and yes that would mean we arn't the same people we were 100 years ago we've evolved"

It's like that episode of Star Trek TNG.

yes

Everybody who questions creationism is a complete idiot. If you look at what science can prove and what it can't, the side that it can't prove outbalances that side that it can be 100 000 000 000 times. That panflit the guy got was true is right....a majority of the top scienctists our now believing that we were indeed created by a higher being. The big bang and all those types of crap is uterly retarded. you can get all these complex organisms living in balance (before humanity destroyed that) from a bang from nothing. And there is absolutely no way we could have evolved from apes because well why are there still apes that haven't. Its been proven that you can create light from sound...ie GOD SPOKE AND THERE WAS LIGHT. A guy in the US discovered that a couple of months ago. Look at the fact that we have one sun and one moon. It's too perfect..like we could have had like 22 moons like jupiter. Evolution is a theory that is sadly talked about on tv that its the real thing. Scientists took the fastest reproducing organism wich I think was a fruit fly or some type of fly and researched it back millions of years ago and discovered it didn't evolve AT ALL. So anyway, science can't prove why a cows milk is white it's quite obviouse that science can't disprove creationism.

As an atheist i believe in nothing.

well thats your choice and problem.

Blue Nighty says:

"Everybody who questions creationism is a complete idiot. If you look at what science can prove and what it can't, the side that it can't prove outbalances that side that it can be 100 000 000 000 times. That panflit the guy got was true is right....a majority of the top scienctists our now believing that we were indeed created by a higher being. The big bang and all those types of crap is uterly retarded. you can get all these complex organisms living in balance (before humanity destroyed that) from a bang from nothing. And there is absolutely no way we could have evolved from apes because well why are there still apes that haven't. Its been proven that you can create light from sound...ie GOD SPOKE AND THERE WAS LIGHT. A guy in the US discovered that a couple of months ago. Look at the fact that we have one sun and one moon. It's too perfect..like we could have had like 22 moons like jupiter. Evolution is a theory that is sadly talked about on tv that its the real thing. Scientists took the fastest reproducing organism wich I think was a fruit fly or some type of fly and researched it back millions of years ago and discovered it didn't evolve AT ALL. So anyway, science can't prove why a cows milk is white it's quite obviouse that science can't disprove creationism. "

Nothing can "disprove" creationism on the simple grounds that a creationist just says "God did it." Wow, what an argument. Sorry, don't mean to be disrespectful, but how is that even trying? Why is the sky blue? God did it. Why am I here? God did it. Why does my dad's emac die when it boots? God did it. Sorry, but creationism is just completely unprovable and therefore not a scientific theory. Unless you can form actual experiments that will prove it one way or the other, it will never be science

Problem? Religion is a problem.

Blue Nighty says:

"Everybody who questions creationism is a complete idiot. If you look at what science can prove and what it can't, the side that it can't prove outbalances that side that it can be 100 000 000 000 times. That panflit the guy got was true is right....a majority of the top scienctists our now believing that we were indeed created by a higher being. The big bang and all those types of crap is uterly retarded. you can get all these complex organisms living in balance (before humanity destroyed that) from a bang from nothing. And there is absolutely no way we could have evolved from apes because well why are there still apes that haven't. Its been proven that you can create light from sound...ie GOD SPOKE AND THERE WAS LIGHT. A guy in the US discovered that a couple of months ago. Look at the fact that we have one sun and one moon. It's too perfect..like we could have had like 22 moons like jupiter. Evolution is a theory that is sadly talked about on tv that its the real thing. Scientists took the fastest reproducing organism wich I think was a fruit fly or some type of fly and researched it back millions of years ago and discovered it didn't evolve AT ALL. So anyway, science can't prove why a cows milk is white it's quite obviouse that science can't disprove creationism. "

I knew this was going to happen, this was a calm debate up until you decided to start name calling. And GOD said, BULLSHIT! Just because you've been brainwashed and need a higher power to explain your existence doesn't mean the rest of us do. I get it, your a weak minded person who needs religion to lean on like a crutch.

The christian god is such a paradox that it can't exist.

Religion is a word given by humanity to describe people relationship with god. AND it isn't religion its humantity! We can't except other poeple believe in different things and we choose to make conflict over it. HUMANITY IS RETARDED!

Blue Nighty says:

"Everybody who questions creationism is a complete idiot. If you look at what science can prove and what it can't, the side that it can't prove outbalances that side that it can be 100 000 000 000 times. That panflit the guy got was true is right....a majority of the top scienctists our now believing that we were indeed created by a higher being. The big bang and all those types of crap is uterly retarded. you can get all these complex organisms living in balance (before humanity destroyed that) from a bang from nothing. And there is absolutely no way we could have evolved from apes because well why are there still apes that haven't. Its been proven that you can create light from sound...ie GOD SPOKE AND THERE WAS LIGHT. A guy in the US discovered that a couple of months ago. Look at the fact that we have one sun and one moon. It's too perfect..like we could have had like 22 moons like jupiter. Evolution is a theory that is sadly talked about on tv that its the real thing. Scientists took the fastest reproducing organism wich I think was a fruit fly or some type of fly and researched it back millions of years ago and discovered it didn't evolve AT ALL. So anyway, science can't prove why a cows milk is white it's quite obviouse that science can't disprove creationism. "

Holy defensive Batman! In my neck of the woods they did a study on moths and found that they evolved very rapidly in order to adapt to a rapidly changing landscape. Years ago a large ore processing plant stripped our land of all its trees. The brownish green moths quickly evolved to a red-ish hue to better blend in with the newly exposed red rock, and then to a light grey to hide in the decaying trees.

Evolution works.

Blue Nighty says:

"Everybody who questions creationism is a complete idiot. If you look at what science can prove and what it can't, the side that it can't prove outbalances that side that it can be 100 000 000 000 times. That panflit the guy got was true is right....a majority of the top scienctists our now believing that we were indeed created by a higher being. The big bang and all those types of crap is uterly retarded. you can get all these complex organisms living in balance (before humanity destroyed that) from a bang from nothing. And there is absolutely no way we could have evolved from apes because well why are there still apes that haven't. Its been proven that you can create light from sound...ie GOD SPOKE AND THERE WAS LIGHT. A guy in the US discovered that a couple of months ago. Look at the fact that we have one sun and one moon. It's too perfect..like we could have had like 22 moons like jupiter. Evolution is a theory that is sadly talked about on tv that its the real thing. Scientists took the fastest reproducing organism wich I think was a fruit fly or some type of fly and researched it back millions of years ago and discovered it didn't evolve AT ALL. So anyway, science can't prove why a cows milk is white it's quite obviouse that science can't disprove creationism. "

Science can prove why a cows milk is white, and who are you to say that God didn't creat the big band, or evoluton, but man didn't have the knowledge or the proper language to describe them when the old testament was written. The Big bang and evolution aren't really considered theories in the way your preacher/priest/father/deacon/apostle/whatever would like you to believe.
Post Edited:2007-07-07 17:14:03

Blue Nighty says:

"Religion is a word given by humanity to describe people relationship with god. AND it isn't religion its humantity! We can't except other poeple believe in different things and we choose to make conflict over it. HUMANITY IS RETARDED!"

Well, that's some we agree on. Most of the retarded ones use religion as a crutch too.

To Gambler, a person like you will never understand. You are the person who has been brain washed. Explain and elaberate on how I am brain washed. You have such a limited understanding of our creation and what it means to be created. God gave us the ability to believe in what we wanted and your taking that and shoving it down the toilet. PS And that god said, I dont know why your bagging on that.

Blue Nighty says:

"Religion is a word given by humanity to describe people relationship with god. AND it isn't religion its humantity! We can't except other poeple believe in different things and we choose to make conflict over it. HUMANITY IS RETARDED!"

Just because somebody wrote some stuff down,doesn't makes it true.

Just like Mighty Magneto calling himself the leader of the Vine Villains doesn't make it so

OHH! BURN!

Genesis is a primitive civilisation trying to make sense of the world without having the tools to fully comprehend it

Noir_Dark says:

"Blue Nighty says:

"Everybody who questions creationism is a complete idiot. If you look at what science can prove and what it can't, the side that it can't prove outbalances that side that it can be 100 000 000 000 times. That panflit the guy got was true is right....a majority of the top scienctists our now believing that we were indeed created by a higher being. The big bang and all those types of crap is uterly retarded. you can get all these complex organisms living in balance (before humanity destroyed that) from a bang from nothing. And there is absolutely no way we could have evolved from apes because well why are there still apes that haven't. Its been proven that you can create light from sound...ie GOD SPOKE AND THERE WAS LIGHT. A guy in the US discovered that a couple of months ago. Look at the fact that we have one sun and one moon. It's too perfect..like we could have had like 22 moons like jupiter. Evolution is a theory that is sadly talked about on tv that its the real thing. Scientists took the fastest reproducing organism wich I think was a fruit fly or some type of fly and researched it back millions of years ago and discovered it didn't evolve AT ALL. So anyway, science can't prove why a cows milk is white it's quite obviouse that science can't disprove creationism. "

Holy defensive Batman! In my neck of the woods they did a study on moths and found that they evolved very rapidly in order to adapt to a rapidly changing landscape. Years ago a large ore processing plant stripped our land of all its trees. The brownish green moths quickly evolved to a red-ish hue to better blend in with the newly exposed red rock, and then to a light grey to hide in the decaying trees.

Evolution works.

"

Walkingstone says:

"Genesis is a primitive civilisation trying to make sense of the world without having the tools to fully comprehend it"

very much so, and may have gotten some parts in the proper order

Blue Nighty says:

"To Gambler, a person like you will never understand. You are the person who has been brain washed. Explain and elaberate on how I am brain washed. You have such a limited understanding of our creation and what it means to be created. God gave us the ability to believe in what we wanted and your taking that and shoving it down the toilet. PS And that god said, I dont know why your bagging on that. "

I'm limited? I'm open to all sorts of possibility's my friend. I bag on the God said part because how do you know he said that? Because man wrote it on paper? Did god write the bible, no, did jesus, no, did man, YES.