#1 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Edited by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio

Discuss.

Please keep this discussion appropriate, polite and mature. Thank you.

#3 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, it could. But the EU may not be relevant anymore. Most of the member countries are broke. :(
#4 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" Yes, it could. But the EU may not be relevant anymore. Most of the member countries are broke. :( "
Germany and France are the economic backbones of the EU, for the most part.
#5 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: 
 
Yes, they are. But they are hardly the ecomonic power houses they were (especially Germany) even 10 years ago. :(
#6 Edited by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:

" @Edamame:  Yes, they are. But they are hardly the ecomonic power houses they were (especially Germany) even 10 years ago. :( "

Germany, Japan and the USA are the three single countries in the world that have the strongest and most robust economies.
#7 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio

Right now, I think China's ecomony far outshines any of the three. 
 
And although it hasn't collapsed yet...I would hardly call America's economy at the moment "robust."  
 
Germany's either compared to how incredible it was in (when was that...of yeah) The Eighties. Germany was obscenely rich then, before the EU.

#8 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" Right now, I think China's ecomony far outshines any of the three. 
 
And although it hasn't collapsed yet...I would hardly call America's economy at the moment "robust."   Germany's either compared to how incredible it was in (when was that...of yeah) The Eighties. Germany was obscenely rich then, before the EU. "
Not true. China is ranked as #4 as the largest economy in the world. 
 
You are referring to the economic recession. Every single country around the world is feeling the pain. Not just America. The USA is still at the top, followed by Japan and Germany, in terms of economic power.   Germany is still incredibly rich now. 
#9 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think so, the rest of the EU wouldn't let them in.

#10 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" I don't think so, the rest of the EU wouldn't let them in. "
Really? Could you kindly explain why?
#11 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: Because (for one reason) Turkey is predominantly Muslim.
#12 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:

Not true. China is ranked as #4 as the largest economy in the world.    

 
Well, if only their own populace had any money...all the others would be left in the dust.
 
<< Germany is still incredibly rich now.  >>
  
Tell that to the typical German who is getting killed with taxes. The standard of living of the middle class is far worse now than it was in 1960...only a little more than a decade after they lost WWII.
#13 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" @Edamame: Because (for one reason) Turkey is predominantly Muslim. "
Great Britain has a very large Muslim population. Mostly from Bangladesh, India and Pakistan. Furthermore, Berlin, Germany also has the second largest Muslim Turkish community outside of Turkey.  Then there is France that has a very large Muslim population from mostly North Africa. 
 
Is Christianity a prerequisite  for EU members? I didn't remember reading that. 
#14 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham: 
 
Hi, Jotham! 
 
I made a comment on you E-book blog. :)
#15 Posted by ComicMan24 (147090 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think that Turkey is ready to become an EU member.

#16 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr: Yes, I saw. Interesting info.
 
@Edamame: There's obviously no official requirement for entry, but that doesn't mean they'll be accepted. And as far as I know, most European countries have a lot of tension with their Muslim populations.
#17 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, if only their own populace had any money...all the others would be left in the dust.
There are a lot of poor people in China.  
 
@Roxanne Starr said:
Tell that to the typical German who is getting killed with taxes. The standard of living of the middle class is far worse now than it was in 1960...only a little more than a decade after they lost WWII. "
This goes for every country. Although, European taxes are higher than American taxes.  The middle class is shrinking worldwide anyway.
 
@ComicMan24 said:
" I don't think that Turkey is ready to become an EU member. "

How long do you think it will take? What will Turkey have to do?
#18 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio

: There's obviously no official requirement for entry, but that doesn't mean they'll be accepted.
I thought there was.  My mistake. 
 
@Jotham said:
 And as far as I know, most European countries have a lot of tension with their Muslim populations. "
Certainly true. Except for Portugal or Albania.
#19 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
This goes for every country. Although, European taxes are higher than American taxes.  The middle class is shrinking worldwide anyway.
AHA!  You admit it. Therein lies the entire problem, dear Edamame.  
 
As governments grow bigger and taxes get higher, the middle class disappears. Are you ready to live on a planet completely comprised of 3rd World nations which discourage innovation and economic growth? 
 
Not me!!!
#20 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

part of turkey actually does sit in europe, its called istanbul, and like most of the world religion doesn't have anything to do with economics. If turkey could provide an economic boost to the EU they'd probably gladly accept them in

#21 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:
This goes for every country. Although, European taxes are higher than American taxes.  The middle class is shrinking worldwide anyway.
AHA!  You admit it. Therein lies the entire problem, dear Edamame.   As governments grow bigger and taxes get higher, the middle class disappears. Are you ready to live on a planet completely comprised of 3rd World nations which discourage innovation and economic growth?  Not me!!! "
I believe that there is a relatively strong middle class in Brazil. Brazil is a big country with a large government.  
 
Otherwise, it is true.  
 
@joshmightbe said:
" part of turkey actually does sit in europe, its called istanbul, and like most of the world religion doesn't have anything to do with economics. If turkey could provide an economic boost to the EU they'd probably gladly accept them in "

Cyprus (the Greek part of it) is actually a part of the EU.
#22 Posted by ComicMan24 (147090 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
"

Well, if only their own populace had any money...all the others would be left in the dust.
There are a lot of poor people in China.  
 
@Roxanne Starr said:
Tell that to the typical German who is getting killed with taxes. The standard of living of the middle class is far worse now than it was in 1960...only a little more than a decade after they lost WWII. "
This goes for every country. Although, European taxes are higher than American taxes.  The middle class is shrinking worldwide anyway.
 
@ComicMan24 said:
" I don't think that Turkey is ready to become an EU member. "
How long do you think it will take? What will Turkey have to do? "
It will take some time. There are also the issues with the Armenian genocide and with Cyprus that need to be discussed first. And there are some issues with human rights in Turkey. I agree with what Jotham said. There are tensions in some countries. A recent example was in Switzerland.
#23 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@ComicMan24 said:
" It will take some time. There are also the issues with the Armenian genocide and with Cyprus that need to be discussed first. And there are some issues with human rights in Turkey. I agree with what Jotham said. There are tensions in some countries. A recent example was in Switzerland. "
True. There are some issues with the Kurdish population in Turkey as well.  
 
Yeah. Cyprus ( the Greek part of it) is officially an EU member.  
 
What happened in Switzerland again? It involved Mosques, right?
#24 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:
This goes for every country. Although, European taxes are higher than American taxes.  The middle class is shrinking worldwide anyway.
AHA!  You admit it. Therein lies the entire problem, dear Edamame.   As governments grow bigger and taxes get higher, the middle class disappears. Are you ready to live on a planet completely comprised of 3rd World nations which discourage innovation and economic growth?  Not me!!! "
I believe that there is a relatively strong middle class in Brazil. Brazil is a big country with a large government.  
 
Otherwise, it is true.  
You are entirely correct about Brazil...a 3rd World nation. There are a couple of Big Cities, but if you wander out into the "country"... 
 
...Let's just say it ain't Marta's Vinyard.
#25 Posted by ComicMan24 (147090 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" It will take some time. There are also the issues with the Armenian genocide and with Cyprus that need to be discussed first. And there are some issues with human rights in Turkey. I agree with what Jotham said. There are tensions in some countries. A recent example was in Switzerland. "
True. There are some issues with the Kurdish population in Turkey as well.    Yeah. Cyprus ( the Greek part of it) is officially an EU member.    What happened in Switzerland again? It involved Mosques, right? "
Yes. The islamic population in one of the cantons wanted to create a mosque, so Switzerland decided to do a plebiscite (not sure about the right word). The majority of people voted for the mosque not to be created. There was some tension if I remember well.
#26 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:

You are entirely correct about Brazil...a 3rd World nation. There are a couple of Big Cities, but if you wander out into the "country"...  ...Let's just say it ain't Marta's Vinyard. "
At least it has some middle class. I can't think of any other nations.  
 
You mean if you wander into the rainforests?  Yeah. It can get a bit terrifying. LOL  The insects there are really unique and scary.
#27 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not saying there are good reasons for keeping Turkey out, its economy is better than a lot of European countries, but there's a certain amount of prejudice in Europe against Muslims and Turks.

#28 Posted by Byzantine (357 posts) - - Show Bio

Before any country joins the European Union it has to perform several legal reforms to conform with the regulations of the Union. By the official list, Turkey has to conform in matters of: 
 
*Free movement of goods
*Freedom of movement for workers
*Right of establishment and freedom to provide services
*Free movement of capital
*Public procurement
*Company law
*Intellectual property law
*Competition policy
*Financial services
*Information society and media
*Agriculture and rural development
*Food safety, veterinary and phytosanitary policy
*Fisheries
*Transport policy
*Energy
*Taxation
*Economic and monetary policy
*Statistics
*Social policy and employment (including anti-discrimination and equal opportunities for women and men)
*Enterprise and industrial policy
*Trans-European networks
*Regional policy and coordination of structural instruments
*Judiciary and fundamental rights
*Justice, freedom and security
*Science and research
*Education and culture
*Environment
*Consumer and health protection
*Customs union*External relations
*Foreign, security and defence policy
*Financial control
*Financial and budgetary provisions
*Institutions
*Other issues
    
 
Up till now negotiations have started on 13 of these fields and completed in one. There are other 21 fields to be placed under negotiation at a later date and Turkey is reluctant to undergo further reforms. One major issue in the Fundamental rights section is the controversial  Article 301 of Turkish law: "a person who publicly insults the Turkish nation, the State of the Republic of Turkey, or the Grand National Assembly [Parliament], shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years" and also that "expressions of thought intended to criticise shall not constitute a crime."        Despite the lattest provision (adden in 2005), the law has been used against novelists, historians and journalists criticizing the official stance on various matters. Several European officials consider this law incompatible with the freedom of speech laws of the Union, which is a requirement for every member state.  
 
The human rights record of Turkey is also questionable, as there are laws protecting the rights of various minorities but they are rarely implemented. Women's rights laws are in effect since the 1930s but crimes against women and family violence often never reach court. There is also the matter of Turkey's draft policies. Concientious objectors are not legally recognized and are given no alternatives for service. Of the various states in Europe, only Turkey and Azerbaijan still refuse to alter their drafting policies. 
 
On the plus side, Turkey's economy is highly developed and the country has the 17th largest nominal GDP in the world. It is still behind the United States, Japan, the People's Republic of China, Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Italy, Brazil, Spain, Canada, India, Russia, Australia, Mexico, South Korea and the Netherlands. But it has long surpassed, countries such as Switzerland and Belgium.

#29 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jotham said:
" I'm not saying there are good reasons for keeping Turkey out, its economy is better than a lot of European countries, but there's a certain amount of prejudice in Europe against Muslims and Turks. "
I think Ireland may be the only country in Europe that has no tensions with Muslims.  That could easily change though.
 
@ComicMan24 said:
" @Edamame said:
" @ComicMan24 said:
" It will take some time. There are also the issues with the Armenian genocide and with Cyprus that need to be discussed first. And there are some issues with human rights in Turkey. I agree with what Jotham said. There are tensions in some countries. A recent example was in Switzerland. "
True. There are some issues with the Kurdish population in Turkey as well.    Yeah. Cyprus ( the Greek part of it) is officially an EU member.    What happened in Switzerland again? It involved Mosques, right? "
Yes. The islamic population in one of the cantons wanted to create a mosque, so Switzerland decided to do a plebiscite (not sure about the right word). The majority of people voted for the mosque not to be created. There was some tension if I remember well. "

Oh.
#30 Posted by Jotham (4564 posts) - - Show Bio
@byzantine: Wow, that's a lot of information. Turkey does have some problems with freedom of speech and civil rights, but I don't think they are significantly worse than most of the rest of Europe.
#31 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@byzantine: Thanks.  LOL.  = D
#32 Posted by Byzantine (357 posts) - - Show Bio

"I think Ireland may be the only country in Europe that has no tensions with Muslims.  That could easily change though. " 
 
I am not sure how to define tensions around the continent, but Ireland actually has very few Muslims among its population. By recent estimates they are only the 0.8% of the population. Irreligious people (Atheists, agnostics, etc) are actually more significant, representing about 4,5 % of the population.

#33 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@byzantine: That is exactly why. Because they are few in numbers in Ireland. Once they get high in numbers? Well, you can figure out what would happen next.
#34 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:

You are entirely correct about Brazil...a 3rd World nation. There are a couple of Big Cities, but if you wander out into the "country"...  ...Let's just say it ain't Marta's Vinyard. "
At least it has some middle class. I can't think of any other nations.    You mean if you wander into the rainforests?  Yeah. It can get a bit terrifying. LOL  The insects there are really unique and scary. "

Insects? INSECTS???...Is that all that frightens you? 
 
Aren't the members of some of those Amazonian tribes cannibals?
#35 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:


Insects? INSECTS???...Is that all that frightens you?  Aren't the members of some of those Amazonian tribes cannibals? "
LOL. Yes. That is correct. Insects.  I never said that that was my only fear.
#36 Posted by Rowen545 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

In my EU class this was a major topic. For all those who are unsure part of Turkey IS in Europe, including it's most important city. Of the Middle Eastern nations Turkey is undeniably the most westernized (no doubt due to it's proximity). Even with this fact there is no denying that there are major gender and religious inequalities that exist in the nation itself. The question is how do you adequately advocate change in those postures? I believe that there is a thin line the EU must tread on, on one side not advocating the prejudices that exist within the Turkish structure, while at the same time not alienating a country that has made major strides. It is ideal for Turkey to be a part of the EU, but it should not have FULL status just yet. Maybe give them a indefinite probationary period and continue to work with them.

#37 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:


Insects? INSECTS???...Is that all that frightens you?  Aren't the members of some of those Amazonian tribes cannibals? "
LOL. Yes. That is correct. Insects.  I never said that that was my only fear. "

I don't like insects either. Heck, I'm allegic to mosquito bites. But I'd rather get bitten by a swarm of them than face the alternative.
#38 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:


Insects? INSECTS???...Is that all that frightens you?  Aren't the members of some of those Amazonian tribes cannibals? "
LOL. Yes. That is correct. Insects.  I never said that that was my only fear. "
I don't like insects either. Heck, I'm allegic to mosquito bites. But I'd rather get bitten by a swarm of them than face the alternative. "
I am allergic to bee stings.  You should see me outside. Whenever a bee comes to sniff me, I just freak out and start running. LOL. People look at me like I am crazy.
#39 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:


Insects? INSECTS???...Is that all that frightens you?  Aren't the members of some of those Amazonian tribes cannibals? "
LOL. Yes. That is correct. Insects.  I never said that that was my only fear. "
I don't like insects either. Heck, I'm allegic to mosquito bites. But I'd rather get bitten by a swarm of them than face the alternative. "
I am allergic to bee stings.  You should see me outside. Whenever a bee comes to sniff me, I just freak out and start running. LOL. People look at me like I am crazy. "

Do you run like a little girl?
#40 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:

Do you run like a little girl? "
LOL. I run like I have a ton of energy and like I am doing Tae Kwon Do reflexes.
#41 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@rowen545: Do you think that the Ukraine would be the farthest nation to become a potential EU member?
#42 Posted by Roxanne Starr (9093 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame said:
" @Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:

Do you run like a little girl? "
LOL. I run like I have a ton of energy and like I am doing Tae Kwon Do reflexes. "

Yeah...right. 
 
Please excuse me for a moment. I need to go to Yahoo to "talk" to someone who is leaving for San Diego in a few hours. 
 
Pat, pat, pat. (That's me running like a little girl.)
#43 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@Roxanne Starr said:
" @Edamame said:

Yeah...right.  Please excuse me for a moment. I need to go to Yahoo to "talk" to someone who is leaving for San Diego in a few hours.  Pat, pat, pat. (That's me running like a little girl.) "
LOL
#44 Posted by Rowen545 (378 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame:  I think they could be, but the EU might not be looking for anymore applicants until they get the finacial fiascoes in Greece, Spain, and Portugal under control. The same probably goes for Turkey. When and If the Euro currency recovers they will begin seriously considering new members at which time Turkey and the Ukraine would both be viable options. Ukraine might have a better shot due to having less cultural hurdles to jump. 
#45 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@rowen545 said:

" @Edamame:  I think they could be, but the EU might not be looking for anymore applicants until they get the finacial fiascoes in Greece, Spain, and Portugal under control. The same probably goes for Turkey. When and If the Euro currency recovers they will begin seriously considering new members at which time Turkey and the Ukraine would both be viable options. Ukraine might have a better shot due to having less cultural hurdles to jump.  "

 I know, but the point I was trying to make was that the Ukraine would geographically be the farthest the EU would expand. Russia would be too much.
#46 Posted by A Touch of Class (ATC) (572 posts) - - Show Bio

Turkey joining the EU would be a disaster for Europe. It would be a sad day if that happens.

#47 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@A Touch of Class (ATC) said:
" Turkey joining the EU would be a disaster for Europe. It would be a sad day if that happens. "
What about Ukraine?
#48 Posted by A Touch of Class (ATC) (572 posts) - - Show Bio
@Edamame: Eh, the Ukrainian politicians do whatever the Russian government wants, it'd be like Russia having its own lackey in the EU. I guess I don't care either way but I'm more on the 'no' side.
#49 Posted by Edamame (28136 posts) - - Show Bio
@A Touch of Class (ATC): Why haven't Monaco, San Marino, the Vatican City, Andorra and Liechtenstein become EU members yet?
#50 Posted by Byzantine (357 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry for reviving an old forum, but I hadn't noticed that last question. In general, the microstates have so far avoided joining the Union mostly because of the financial cost of the entry process. But all have agreements with the Union so far. 
 
Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco and San Marino have partially adopted European Union law on several matters. The Vatican has not. But in any case, the Vatican is the only country in Europe than is not a potential member of the Union. The "Fundamental Law of Vatican City State", its equivalent of a constitution, gives the Pope the powers of a Supreme Monarch:  “The Supreme Pontiff, Sovereign of Vatican City State, has the fullness of legislative, executive and judicial powers.”  
 
This concentration of power in the hands of a single person does not comply with European standards of democratic representation. There are also several elements of European law which would require extensive reforms to apply to the Vatican: 
 
*"Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited."  
*Equality between men and women must be ensured in all areas, including employment, work and pay. The principle of equality shall not prevent the maintenance or adoption of measures providing for specific advantages in favour of the under-represented sex."
 
The laws of the Vatican provide no equivalent. While the state is essentially an elective monarchy, the female citizens of the Vatican do not vote.