Confederate Flag to be illegal in California

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krspaceT

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"The State of California may not sell or display the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, also referred to as the Stars and Bars, or any similar image, or tangible personal property, inscribed with such an image unless the image appears in a book, digital medium, or state museum that serves an educational or historical purpose."

This recent law in the California legislator simply needs to be signed by the governor, and the damn thing will be banned. Here's to seeing it spread further to all the good parts of the United States!

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Fallschirmjager

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I never understood the whole southern pride thing anyway.

Then again, the US is a result of a rebellion. The only difference is we won.

Lesson? Winning justifies everything.

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Blade_R

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#4  Edited By Blade_R

I was born, raised, and still currently live in Virginia and I wouldn't be caught dead wearing or flying one of those flags. So banned or not it doesn't make a difference to me.

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krspaceT

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@fallschirmjager: Southerns are prideful people, and we didn't understand how to 'de fang' a flawed culture like we did in the 40's when de-Nazification worked wonders for Germany.

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deactivated-5c6600594117e

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DarkDay

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#7  Edited By DarkDay

It shouldn't be banned. But at the same time the concept of Southern Pride being tied to the Confederacy is just cultural romanticism. Simply put, America definitely needs to get rid of its rose colored historical nostalgia glasses and drill into ourselves facts instead of opinions.

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Fallschirmjager

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#8  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@krspacet said:

@fallschirmjager: Southerns are prideful people, and we didn't understand how to 'de fang' a flawed culture like we did in the 40's when de-Nazification worked wonders for Germany.

Being proud to be southern is fine.

Displaying said pride, with a flag of a failed rebellion is not how I personally would go about things.

Which goes to my jab about winning. (I was joking you know, in case you missed it)

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comicace3

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#9  Edited By comicace3

Why are they even selling it? They're weren't even part of the confederate states anyways.

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krspaceT

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Why are they even selling it? They're weren't even part of the confederate states anyways.

On a more benevolent end, its tied to rural pride. On a less benevolent end, its tide to white pride and is seen as a hate symbol by some.

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nefarious

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I didn't know they used the flag in western states. Hm.

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comicace3

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@krspacet said:

@comicace3 said:

Why are they even selling it? They're weren't even part of the confederate states anyways.

On a more benevolent end, its tied to rural pride. On a less benevolent end, its tide to white pride and is seen as a hate symbol by some.

Oh well ok.

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Spidey_Jackson

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Eh. I'll keep quiet on this subject.

Beata

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Bruxae

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The south is the best!

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CaptainMarvel4Ever

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I may not be a political person, but I don't like this idea.

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russellmania77

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That was my school flag and yes i am hispanic (mexican)

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BatWatch

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#17  Edited By BatWatch

The title is a bit misleading. The bill doesn't ban the flag from the state, but rather bans the State of California, as in the government of California, from selling or displaying the flag except for educational purposes. People can still buy it from any shop that chooses to carry it.

I don't like the idea of stifling voices even if they are bad voices, and I would oppose this if it were trying to make the flag illegal to display or sell across the state, but if the government chooses not to buy, sell and show it, it's their prerogative.

@darkday said:

It shouldn't be banned. But at the same time the concept of Southern Pride being tied to the Confederacy is just cultural romanticism. Simply put, America definitely needs to get rid of its rose colored historical nostalgia glasses

and drill into ourselves facts instead of opinions.

I agree about the rose colored glasses.

I'm from Arkansas, and a lot of people here just see it as a sign of Southern Pride similar to a I Love New York T-Shirt. I've had T-Shirts with Confederate flags on them, and I never considered it a racial statement though I don't think I'd wear one now because of the racial component that many assign to it.

@comicace3 said:

Why are they even selling it? They're weren't even part of the confederate states anyways.

I was wondering the same thing. Maybe it's one of those feel good pieces of legislation which actually does nothing.
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DarthAznable

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k

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Sovereign91001

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#19  Edited By Sovereign91001

Cool.

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Emperorb777

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They could ban the flag as a whole and I'd be fine with it.

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aquaman01

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Yeah, I would have been happy if that was true. Unlike most people, I don't care about bigot's voices or rights.

Ah well, either way doesn't affect me.

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Wolverine008

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Sweet.

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The_Deathstroker

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Dammit.

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comicace3

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BiteMe-Fanboy

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Stupid. But whatever. As long as it is never banned like that in the South. Where it SHOULD mean something to Southerners. Too bad everyone knows pretty much nothing about the flag and are quick to just say it's a racist flag.

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krspaceT

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@biteme_fanboy: Oh yes, the famous Dixie Flag mostly used by Robert E. Lee, the only Condeferate General who actually was decent as oppose to the foolish and outgunned majority: he was simply outgunned. It has been used for many things, particularly racism.


It's sort of like the swastika really. A symbol long before the Nazi's, people find it in ancient rediscovered Jewish Temples in Israel to this day.

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PowerHerc

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The Confederate Flag is the flag of the losing side in the American Civil War. It's represents losing to me

That said, I think banning it is ridiculous.

More limits on freedom in the so-called land of the free.

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BatWatch

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Yeah, I would have been happy if that was true. Unlike most people, I don't care about bigot's voices or rights.

Ah well, either way doesn't affect me.

The problem with not caring about bigot's rights is that it opens the door for the government to decide who is and is not a bigot. Right now, most people would probably say that Westboro is a bunch of bigots. Thirty years ago, most people would say that anybody who tried to get Phil Robertson fired for his anti-gay comments as being bigots.

Freedom of speech is not made to protect the speech we like but for the speech we don't like.

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Wolverine008

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The Confederate Flag is the flag of the losing side in the American Civil War. It's represents losing to me

That said, I think banning it is ridiculous.

More limits on freedom in the so-called land of the free.

That's not really the problem people have with the Confederate flag.

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PowerHerc

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@powerherc said:

The Confederate Flag is the flag of the losing side in the American Civil War. It's represents losing to me

That said, I think banning it is ridiculous.

More limits on freedom in the so-called land of the free.

That's not really the problem people have with the Confederate flag.

I know the problem people have with it. Plenty of different people have problems with plenty of different things and banning these things only switches the resentment while limiting more freedom. It's funny how tolerance is a one-way street in PC America.

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Wolverine008

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@powerherc: It's not limiting freedom. At the end of the day, that flag was created to symbolize a group of people who felt that they could separate from the United States because they purportedly had a God given right to own brown skinned people. Just yelling: "Politically correct" when people take issues with these type of racist historical traditions takes away from and completely misses the root of the problem.

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krspaceT

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@powerherc: It's not limiting freedom. At the end of the day, that flag was created to symbolize a group of people who felt that they could separate from the United States because they purportedly had a God given right to own brown skinned people. Just yelling: "Politically correct" when people take issues with these type of racist historical traditions takes away from and completely misses the root of the problem.

Tis the point. It is not being 'Politically Correct'. It's dealing with a racist symbol the same way people deal with the swastika.

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consolemaster001

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Well..California is a pretty Liberal state.

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Lunacyde

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#35 Lunacyde  Moderator

@krspacet said:

"The State of California may not sell or display the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, also referred to as the Stars and Bars, or any similar image, or tangible personal property, inscribed with such an image unless the image appears in a book, digital medium, or state museum that serves an educational or historical purpose."

This recent law in the California legislator simply needs to be signed by the governor, and the damn thing will be banned. Here's to seeing it spread further to all the good parts of the United States!

So what about tattoos?

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Kal'smahboi

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#37  Edited By Lunacyde  Moderator

@wolverine08:

People having a problem with something doesn't mean it's Constitutional to ban it. This is infringing on free speech rights, and even though i don't personally agree with this particular symbol it doesn't mean the government should have a right to censor those people.

Frankly it's an invasion of First Amendment rights. These are vital rights and I don't support it one bit.

I am of course speaking about an individuals right to own or display such a flag. I don't actually know what this law does, but it appears to only prohibit the California State government from selling or displaying one.

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#38  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy

@wolverine08 said:

@powerherc: It's not limiting freedom. At the end of the day, that flag was created to symbolize a group of people who felt that they could separate from the United States because they purportedly had a God given right to own brown skinned people. Just yelling: "Politically correct" when people take issues with these type of racist historical traditions takes away from and completely misses the root of the problem.

It's a battle flag of the every day Southern man who left their homes to fight what they saw as an invasion. Nothing more. That flag has little to nothing to do with slavery. The flag that was created to represent the Confederacy was the Stars and Bars. The Confederate Battle Flag didn't come into existance until the war had already started, and it was created as the flag for the Virginia army. ONLY because it was hard to tell the difference between the Stars and Bars and the Unions flag on the battlefield.

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@lunacyde said:

@wolverine08:

People having a problem with something doesn't mean it's Constitutional to ban it. This is infringing on free speech rights, and even though i don't personally agree with this particular symbol it doesn't mean the government should have a right to censor those people.

Frankly it's an invasion of First Amendment rights. These are vital rights and I don't support it one bit.

I am of course speaking about an individuals right to own or display such a flag. I don't actually know what this law does.

Exactly.

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I don't believe there is ban on selling the flag or using it within the State. The State won't use it is all.

Personally don't care for the flag but fine and will fight for its use. the Constitution should be honored although you know "all men are created equal.." always f**ked with my love of my country.

Political Correct vs Intolerance always seems like a weird battle.

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California is a shithole now a days… It never mattered to me because when I lived there I had money and lived right near the beach man. Most people have been priced out and have to life in some soulless desert town to live off their income. The old hoods like Inglewood are being renvented into hipster paradises. Full of drugs, illegal aliens, gangs, unfriendly selfish people, horrible traffic, horrible public schools, except in nice neighborhoods but even then they bus kids from poor neighborhoods to their schools.

The worst thing about Cali is the police state big brother is strong their…. in orange county where I lived some neighborhoods had rules where you can't even smoke in your own backyard.

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HA

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aquaman01

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@batwatch said:

@aquaman01 said:

Yeah, I would have been happy if that was true. Unlike most people, I don't care about bigot's voices or rights.

Ah well, either way doesn't affect me.

The problem with not caring about bigot's rights is that it opens the door for the government to decide who is and is not a bigot. Right now, most people would probably say that Westboro is a bunch of bigots. Thirty years ago, most people would say that anybody who tried to get Phil Robertson fired for his anti-gay comments as being bigots.

Freedom of speech is not made to protect the speech we like but for the speech we don't like.

Oh I didn't mean like if a bigot was ACTUALLY getting his rights taken aways I would just walk away. While I honestly don't care about their rights, I would still protect them. Just, in this case, I can never see how banning something that has no purpose other than hate (no, it is NOT southern pride, I am a southerner and I have shown my pride in countless different ways). And honestly, the reason why it wouldn't matter, is that people would still have the flags whether it was legal or not. Not that hard to hide a flag if someone was coming over lol.

But yeah, I didn't mean it like in the extreme (taking away their cars, right to vote, to speech). And who knows, maybe someone could actually give a good reason why JUST banning the Con flag is bad.

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BiteMe-Fanboy

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#44  Edited By BiteMe-Fanboy

@aquaman01 said:

@batwatch said:

@aquaman01 said:

Yeah, I would have been happy if that was true. Unlike most people, I don't care about bigot's voices or rights.

Ah well, either way doesn't affect me.

The problem with not caring about bigot's rights is that it opens the door for the government to decide who is and is not a bigot. Right now, most people would probably say that Westboro is a bunch of bigots. Thirty years ago, most people would say that anybody who tried to get Phil Robertson fired for his anti-gay comments as being bigots.

Freedom of speech is not made to protect the speech we like but for the speech we don't like.

Oh I didn't mean like if a bigot was ACTUALLY getting his rights taken aways I would just walk away. While I honestly don't care about their rights, I would still protect them. Just, in this case, I can never see how banning something that has no purpose other than hate (no, it is NOT southern pride, I am a southerner and I have shown my pride in countless different ways). And honestly, the reason why it wouldn't matter, is that people would still have the flags whether it was legal or not. Not that hard to hide a flag if someone was coming over lol.

But yeah, I didn't mean it like in the extreme (taking away their cars, right to vote, to speech). And who knows, maybe someone could actually give a good reason why JUST banning the Con flag is bad.

I am a Southerner and the flag does represent Southern pride for thousands of Southerners. How so? Because our own blood, our ancestors sacrificed all they had to fight for their homes and defend their homes, and they all did so under that flag. I take pride in that. It was a horrible war that consisted of things you and I can NEVER imagine or experience, and they all went to war without any question, against a greater and more powerful army. I take pride in the fact I have 10+ ancestors that left their homes to fight. So, I defend that flag.

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Lunacyde

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#45 Lunacyde  Moderator

@aquaman01:

Because you can't take away someone's rights because YOU don't agree with them.

Our freedom of speech is not dependent upon content. It does not say you have the freedom of speech as long as you don't offend anyone. It says, "Congress shall make NO LAW abridging the freedom of speech."

This means that you cannot censor/punish a U.S citizen for owning/displaying a Norther Virginia Battle flag.

Giving the government the power to decide who is offensive and who isn't and silence those it finds offensive is the ultimate slippery slope.

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#46 BumpyBoo  Moderator

@lunacyde said:

@aquaman01:

Because you can't take away someone's rights because YOU don't agree with them.

Our freedom of speech is not dependent upon content. It does not say you have the freedom of speech as long as you don't offend anyone. It says, "Congress shall make NO LAW abridging the freedom of speech."

This means that you cannot censor/punish a U.S citizen for owning/displaying a Norther Virginia Battle flag.

Giving the government the power to decide who is offensive and who isn't and silence those it finds offensive is the ultimate slippery slope.

So well said :)

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#47 Lunacyde  Moderator
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#48  Edited By BatWatch

@lunacyde:

The law doesn't say people cannot buy or display the Condfeserate flag. It says the state government can't buy or display them except for educational reasons.

I agree that stifling differing views is very dangerous and I think banning the display of any flag is a step down that dark path. However, I don't think banning a flag is against the First Amendment.

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@aquaman01:

I see what you are saying, but to me, taking away someone's right to fly a flag (which this law does not do) is still a bad idea. Flying a flag might not be as fundamental a right as your right to life, but it's still a needless limitation. Most people don't fly the flag for racist reasons, and even if they did, it's still better to know who those people are. If somebody were a Nazi for instsnce, wouldn't you rather know who they were so you can keep an eye on them?

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Lunacyde

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#50 Lunacyde  Moderator

@batwatch:

I know, I said in my post earlier that I am not speaking specifically to this law.

I was referring to another poster's comment that there is no problem with banning the flag.