#1 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

WARNING: THIS THREAD MAY HAVE SLIGHTLY EXPLICIT TEXT IN REGARDS TO THE TOPICS AT HAND.

This is a thread to discuss morality within the Christian religion; Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church. If you're not a Christian, please don't come in here trying to denounce the religion; but feel free to offer conjecture based on what you know of the Bible if you think it's pertinent at all! This thread is just to be informative for the Christians of this community regarding relationships with other people.

Anyway. What do you think is moral and immoral regarding intimacy in a relationship before and after marriage? Is oral sex immoral even after marriage? Before marriage, is it wrong to kiss or make out with a girlfriend/boyfriend, or is that also sinful just as premarital sex is? Where are all the lines drawn to find out what not to do with another human being?

I think that making out can be dangerous but not sinful; you might carry it too far, for example. It can get easy to get lost in the heat of the moment. Kissing I don't think is sinful, but I have no idea if there are still boundaries after you're married, so long as you don't force the other to do something (though the Bible does mention somewhere that a husband and wife belong to each other, and should not refuse their bodies to each other; another topic to discuss?)

Begin discussion.

#2 Posted by pooty (10315 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123: I think you pretty much got it right. Before marriage: kissing, over the close touching is okay.

Before Marriage: oral sex, hand jobs, touching of genitals is pushing it or wrong.

After marriage: as long as both are happy and comfortable, anything goes.

#3 Posted by King Saturn (222808 posts) - - Show Bio
are you asking for personal opinions or concepts based from more religious dogmas... 
most religious folks will tell you that any kind of sex before marriage is bad 
personally I disagree wholeheartly... sex education should be taught more in schools instead of this abstinence crap... most of the friends that I have that have become fathers or mothers as teens was Christians... that abstinence stuff really doesn't work.  
we just need to wrap it up more often...  
[=
#4 Posted by Vortex13 (12156 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn: "Wrap it before you tap it" A phrase to live by.

#5 Posted by midnightmare (98 posts) - - Show Bio

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church." WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

#6 Posted by mikethekiller (8160 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

are you asking for personal opinions or concepts based from more religious dogmas...
most religious folks will tell you that any kind of sex before marriage is bad
personally I disagree wholeheartly... sex education should be taught more in schools instead of this abstinence crap... most of the friends that I have that have become fathers or mothers as teens was Christians... that abstinence stuff really doesn't work.
we just need to wrap it up more often... [=

Hit the nail on the head.

#7 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church." WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

#8 Posted by midnightmare (98 posts) - - Show Bio

"Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity?" I beg for my life sir,english is not my firs language, but my point remains the same, considering that catholicism is not christianity is like considering that Canada, Argentina or Brazil are not America just because they are not part of the U.S. By the way i am a deist.

#9 Posted by Omega Ray Jay (7497 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vortex13 said:

@King Saturn: "Wrap it before you tap it" A phrase to live by.

Amen.

#10 Posted by jobiwankenobi (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

Catholicism is the original Christian religion. The other Christian denominations branched off of it, mostly during the Protestant reformation. Course, new branches are still forming even to this day.

#11 Posted by AtPhantom (14465 posts) - - Show Bio

@jobiwankenobi said:

Catholicism is the original Christian religion. The other Christian denominations branched off of it, mostly during the Protestant reformation. Course, new branches are still forming even to this day.

That's not really true either.

#12 Posted by jobiwankenobi (1459 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom: Eh, well close enough. Thanks for correcting me.

#13 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church." WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

#14 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123 said:

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church." WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

I would look more into Catholicism if I were you, because it's a little different than what you think it is. As to your question, any lustful act outside or before marriage is considered a sin, therefore kissing someone who is not or will not be your wife/husband is a sin according to the bible. I'm sure people have rationalized this by saying they thought they were going to marry their boyfriend or girlfriend, but it's pretty clearly laid out in the bible.

#15 Posted by King Saturn (222808 posts) - - Show Bio
@Batnandez said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church." WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

I would look more into Catholicism if I were you, because it's a little different than what you think it is. As to your question, any lustful act outside or before marriage is considered a sin, therefore kissing someone who is not or will not be your wife/husband is a sin according to the bible. I'm sure people have rationalized this by saying they thought they were going to marry their boyfriend or girlfriend, but it's pretty clearly laid out in the bible.

I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?
#16 Posted by Joesoef95 (315 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread will at least have 10 pages lol

#17 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church." WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

I would look more into Catholicism if I were you, because it's a little different than what you think it is. As to your question, any lustful act outside or before marriage is considered a sin, therefore kissing someone who is not or will not be your wife/husband is a sin according to the bible. I'm sure people have rationalized this by saying they thought they were going to marry their boyfriend or girlfriend, but it's pretty clearly laid out in the bible.

I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

#18 Posted by King Saturn (222808 posts) - - Show Bio
@Batnandez said: 
I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

really ? why do you think it's silly ? has it not been the history of man for at least the last 200 years to pick and choose what they like from various religions and discard the rest of it ?
#19 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:
I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

really ? why do you think it's silly ? has it not been the history of man for at least the last 200 years to pick and choose what they like from various religions and discard the rest of it ?

Yeah and it's silly. Think about how gung ho the right is about issues like gay marriage yet they don't care about how immoral their own sexual behavior is. Why don't you think it's silly? It's so incredibly backwards and hypocritical.

#20 Posted by King Saturn (222808 posts) - - Show Bio
@Batnandez said:

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:
I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

really ? why do you think it's silly ? has it not been the history of man for at least the last 200 years to pick and choose what they like from various religions and discard the rest of it ?

Yeah and it's silly. Think about how gung ho the right is about issues like gay marriage yet they don't care about how immoral their own sexual behavior is. Why don't you think it's silly? It's so incredibly backwards and hypocritical.

because it's the nature of humans... we some dumb apes. 
#21 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez said:

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church."
WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

I would look more into Catholicism if I were you, because it's a little different than what you think it is. As to your question, any lustful act outside or before marriage is considered a sin, therefore kissing someone who is not or will not be your wife/husband is a sin according to the bible. I'm sure people have rationalized this by saying they thought they were going to marry their boyfriend or girlfriend, but it's pretty clearly laid out in the bible.

I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

Catholics believe a little different than Christians do... Well some do...

#22 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@TERMINATORXX said:

@Batnandez said:

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church."
WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

I would look more into Catholicism if I were you, because it's a little different than what you think it is. As to your question, any lustful act outside or before marriage is considered a sin, therefore kissing someone who is not or will not be your wife/husband is a sin according to the bible. I'm sure people have rationalized this by saying they thought they were going to marry their boyfriend or girlfriend, but it's pretty clearly laid out in the bible.

I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

Catholics believe a little different than Christians do... Well some do...

The differences are minuscule. The whole praying to saints things gets confused a lot. Catholics just ask a saint to pray from them kind of like asking a neighbor to pray for you.

#23 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:
I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

really ? why do you think it's silly ? has it not been the history of man for at least the last 200 years to pick and choose what they like from various religions and discard the rest of it ?

Yeah and it's silly. Think about how gung ho the right is about issues like gay marriage yet they don't care about how immoral their own sexual behavior is. Why don't you think it's silly? It's so incredibly backwards and hypocritical.

because it's the nature of humans... we some dumb apes.

Too true.

#24 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez said:

@TERMINATORXX said:

@Batnandez said:

@King Saturn said:

@Batnandez said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Batnandez said:

@midnightmare said:

"Catholicism doesn't fall into this category, FYI, they have somewhat different rules that the church and pope impose. Just saying that because lots of people think they're the same, when they're not; although some Catholics may believe in Christ, it still is a very separate church."
WTF? Catholicism is the most numerous branch of christianism. And the rules regarding sexual behavior are basicly the same than for protestants.

Christianism? Don't you mean Christianity? The discussion topic lacks specificity. Are you asking what intimacy should be by Christian or personal standards? (I'm an atheist fyi) If you are a christian than any form of emotional intimacy that threatens your future marriage should be considered immoral and an act of adultery. This includes vows of love, kissing etc... Churches are extremely lax on this subject and it's clear that there needs to be some reform on the issue as Christians divorce rate is extremely close to that of atheists. There's this sort of laughable rationalization hamstering that goes on with Christians on this subject so maybe it's a mute point. I can't tell you how many people I know will invent there own moral code when it comes to things like sex. I seriously wonder why they even bother going to church.

If I was to speak on my personal beliefs I don't think casual sex is immoral per se, but I do believe that it threatens the foundation of a family. It's no secret that virgin marriages sport the lowest divorce rates, although there have been some studies that suggest that an increase in education decreases the risk of divorce. I think if people were more strict with their sexual behavior we would see higher worker productivity and stronger family units. But this is likely to never happen as people like having sex way too much to care about things like their kids, families etc... It's pretty sad really.

Wow, that's pretty strong stuff, and very well-worded Batnandez! I agree that Christians and pretty much anyone of any religion in western civilization enjoy making their own morality regarding sex, no matter what they seem to believe. The topic here I was interested in, was, what do you guys think the Bible and Jesus teach about intimacy regarding sex and sexual acts (kissing, for an example of a very mild sexual act, also falls into this category)?

Midnightmare, Catholicism isn't quite the same as much of Christianity; I guess what I was going for here was protestantism, because Catholicism makes up it's own rules that don't necessarily follow the Bible, and they have a weird (and somewhat creepy) hierarchy that makes certain people "better" than other people. Many of them also believe that praying to saints and to the virgin Mary is just as valid or moreso valid than praying to Jesus and God directly, which is very false according to the Bible, which teaches to pray only to God and Jesus and only in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit). So no, Catholicism =/= Christianity, even though plenty of Catholics are Christians too (i.e. believe in Jesus and accept him as their savior). Christianity virtually always points towards protestantism, not Catholicism. I was trying to be explicit there.

I would look more into Catholicism if I were you, because it's a little different than what you think it is. As to your question, any lustful act outside or before marriage is considered a sin, therefore kissing someone who is not or will not be your wife/husband is a sin according to the bible. I'm sure people have rationalized this by saying they thought they were going to marry their boyfriend or girlfriend, but it's pretty clearly laid out in the bible.

I take it you are a strict catholic eh ?

I'm an atheist lol. I just think it's silly that people are a part of something that they don't full subscribe to.

Catholics believe a little different than Christians do... Well some do...

The differences are minuscule. The whole praying to saints things gets confused a lot. Catholics just ask a saint to pray from them kind of like asking a neighbor to pray for you.

Well alot of Christians ask to keep people in their prayers..... Cathlics gamble and thats why they're considered Cathlic I guess, but I also heard in the Catholic bible, they believe in Pergatory.

#25 Posted by jogoboom (19 posts) - - Show Bio

I think everyone's getting distracted from the main intention of this thread...but with that said here's a little bit to chew on.

Catholicism is not the original Christianity, but it is the institution that grew as Christianity began to become the mainstream religion for nations, primarilly Rome. Catholicism grew in authority and started to change how they operated following what they thought was the best way to meet the needs of the people at the time, and that soon changed into finding new ways to fund the church. Martin Luther (and other contemporaries including John Calvin, and Zwingli) read the Bible and found that it opposes much of what the mainstream Catholics were preaching at that time concerning grace and forgiveness. So Luther began the Reformation movement and really began separating into different Christian factions.

What it really comes down to is simple, and Christian (first and foremost) must have a true understanding that Jesus died on the cross in order to pay the TOTAL price that our sins cost. Fundamental Catholicism takes the stance that while that is true, we still need to pay for our sins after we become Christians, as opposed to Jesus paying it all. Modern Catholicism doesn't ALWAYS believe those fundamentals, but some do. Primarily, it isn't what religion, denomination, faction, church, or cult you belong to, it's whether or not you have accepted the grace God offers you.

Now when it comes to the actual topic of the thread...

I just got married 2 weeks ago and my wife and I both came into the relationship virgins. It was incredibly difficult to not have sex, but we both are happy with the choice that we are bringing these things into our marriage:

1) No one else to compare each other to.

2) No worries of STD's and no pregnancy scares.

3) We're able to have a lot of firsts together.

Now, we did kiss when we were engaged to be married and not before that. And our method for waiting until marriage was pretty simple: keep your clothes on. Anything beyond kissing we knew we probably wouldn't be able to stop, so we held it to just that.

Sorry for the lengthy post, I hope it isn't too filled with scrambled thoughts.

#26 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123: Why are you so interested in this?

#27 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vortex13: i prefer the 'dont be a fool. wrap your tool.'

#28 Posted by God_Spawn (35982 posts) - - Show Bio

@King Saturn said:

are you asking for personal opinions or concepts based from more religious dogmas...
most religious folks will tell you that any kind of sex before marriage is bad
personally I disagree wholeheartly... sex education should be taught more in schools instead of this abstinence crap... most of the friends that I have that have become fathers or mothers as teens was Christians... that abstinence stuff really doesn't work.
we just need to wrap it up more often... [=

I have to agree with KS over here. Schools nowadays and even when I was in middle school 6-7 years ago weren't really teaching us sex education but sex prevention. There really was no talking about sex, they had a book on STD's and abstinence and that is all we talked about. I am a Christian myself but if two consenting adults wish to have sex then by all means do it. As long as they are safe about it then fine. And in a growing society of failing relationships and marriages with a species whose main goal is to basically procreate I fail to see the relevancy of it anymore. If a couple saves themselves for marriage, has sex, has some kids then in 10 years hate each other's guts and goes through a nasty divorce in turn screwing with the kids, good job religion, you really did a number on them. I have friends from high school that have had kids when they were 16-17 years old and they are some of the best parents despite still going to college, still working a job or two and still not being old enough to even drink alcohol so they can support their kid. And that should be regarded as a sin? When I have a kid some day I can't guaranteed to be married but if being intimate with someone I care about and her birthing a son is looked down upon by people then they can go get hitched and f*ck themselves. My kid is a son of God and a son of my own. He is a son, not a sin.

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#29 Posted by Aiden Cross (15513 posts) - - Show Bio

My view is simple. People should do what they feel they should do, going by their own morals and values. Not ones that are 'forced' upon you. And people who frown upon it shouldn't be so judgemental because i'm sure you have some things other people would frown upon. Live and let live. People don't like it? F them (not literally ;p)

#30 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aiden Cross said:

My view is simple. People should do what they feel they should do, going by their own morals and values. Not ones that are 'forced' upon you. And people who frown upon it shouldn't be so judgemental because i'm sure you have some things other people would frown upon. Live and let live. People don't like it? F them (not literally ;p)

Well, I see posts like this in here, but this isn't what the thread's about. It's fine to have different opinions on what you wanna do with your life and such. But the thread is meant for discussions about what people think the Bible and God say/would have to say about certain things.

For example.

Does the Bible ever say anything in regards to oral sex being a sin, or can me and my wife mess around some day if I get married according to the Bible?

#31 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio

  

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#32 Posted by Aiden Cross (15513 posts) - - Show Bio

@minigunman123: No idea. i'm not religious. But if it's something you and your wife enjoy. Religion shouldn't keep that from you. I don't see anything wrong with it.

#33 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

Again people, while I don't mind or care if you guys think sex before marriage is okay, I'm more interested in what you think Christianity teaches; I'm not saying you have to believe in the stuff, I'm just asking what you think the Bible and God teach.

#34 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aiden Cross said:

@minigunman123: No idea. i'm not religious. But if it's something you and your wife enjoy. Religion shouldn't keep that from you. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Yeah, this is what I was about to post; after doing a bit of research, it seems that oral sex isn't forbidden in the bible at all. Interesting.

Bringing up another one though, I've read conflicting opinions on the Bible's stance on self-pleasure (you know what I mean). What do you guys think a Christian should believe in this regard?

#35 Posted by Mercy_ (92083 posts) - - Show Bio

I have a dislike for how Christian is always generalized as if that's what every sect of the religion believes.

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#36 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@minigunman123 said:

Again people, while I don't mind or care if you guys think sex before marriage is okay, I'm more interested in what you think Christianity teaches; I'm not saying you have to believe in the stuff, I'm just asking what you think the Bible and God teach.

God doesn't care, have all the unprotected nasty sex you want, with anyone you want. You don't have to be married, doesn't matter.
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#37 Posted by minigunman123 (3116 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@minigunman123 said:

Again people, while I don't mind or care if you guys think sex before marriage is okay, I'm more interested in what you think Christianity teaches; I'm not saying you have to believe in the stuff, I'm just asking what you think the Bible and God teach.

God doesn't care, have all the unprotected nasty sex you want, with anyone you want. You don't have to be married, doesn't matter.

... Where's that coming from lol? XD Did I make you rage?

#38 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@minigunman123 said:

Again people, while I don't mind or care if you guys think sex before marriage is okay, I'm more interested in what you think Christianity teaches; I'm not saying you have to believe in the stuff, I'm just asking what you think the Bible and God teach.

God doesn't care, have all the unprotected nasty sex you want, with anyone you want. You don't have to be married, doesn't matter.

Unprotected?

The last time I checked the church was against protected sex.

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#39 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@minigunman123 said:

... Where's that coming from lol? XD Did I make you rage?

I was joking, lol..I wanted to see what your reaction would be. 
 
@mrdecepticonleader said:

The last time I checked the church was against protected sex.

True, if you're not married but there are alot of people in the church who have had children out of wedlock so all they can really do is ask for forgiveness for that sin.
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#40 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@minigunman123 said:

... Where's that coming from lol? XD Did I make you rage?

I was joking, lol..I wanted to see what your reaction would be.

@mrdecepticonleader said:

The last time I checked the church was against protected sex.

True, if you're not married but there are alot of people in the church who have had children out of wedlock so all they can really do is ask for forgiveness for that sin.

Yeah.

All this just sounds silly to me,how serious people take religion and all,and how the religious expect everyone to respect it.

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#41 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrdecepticonleader said:

Yeah.

All this just sounds silly to me,how serious people take religion and all,and how the religious expect everyone to respect it.

You SHOULD respect everyone's religion. Obviously you don't have to but at least don't tell them to their faces what they believe sounds silly.
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#42 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

Yeah.

All this just sounds silly to me,how serious people take religion and all,and how the religious expect everyone to respect it.

You SHOULD respect everyone's religion. Obviously you don't have to but at least don't tell them to their faces what they believe sounds silly.

I mainly meant in regards to debating it and critiquing and questioning it,as there is alot of unnecessary stigma around being able to.

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#43 Posted by Vance Astro (90727 posts) - - Show Bio
@mrdecepticonleader said:

I mainly meant in regards to debating it and critiquing and questioning it,as there is alot of unnecessary stigma around being able to.

Oh ok. I totally understand what you mean then. There is alot of stuff about religion that I don't get and that's why I am a christian in the sense that I believe in god and have been baptized but I don't spend time worshipping a being. The Bible was written by men. There's several different versions and several different types of christianity and there are different religions too, it's hard to know who or what to follow or believe.
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#44 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (16870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

@mrdecepticonleader said:

I mainly meant in regards to debating it and critiquing and questioning it,as there is alot of unnecessary stigma around being able to.

Oh ok. I totally understand what you mean then. There is alot of stuff about religion that I don't get and that's why I am a christian in the sense that I believe in god and have been baptized but I don't spend time worshipping a being. The Bible was written by men. There's several different versions and several different types of christianity and there are different religions too, it's hard to know who or what to follow or believe.

I suppose it is.

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#45 Posted by PowerHerc (78172 posts) - - Show Bio

@jobiwankenobi said:

Catholicism is the original Christian religion. The other Christian denominations branched off of it, mostly during the Protestant reformation. Course, new branches are still forming even to this day.

True.

#46 Posted by terry2012 (4752 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batnandez: I'm a Christian and your a atheist and I had to agree with you all the way. Well said.