Can you think of a comeback for this? I can't.

Talk about having Philosophy of Man for 3 hours straight and you get to discuss about different greeks with their wise/foolish beliefs. It's mind numbing O_O

@theblondegod: can't tell if trolling.....

I'm not listening to him. That guy prolly fuched his own cousin

@king_saturn: " GOD creates Evil or GOD creates Disaster which is the same as creating Evil."

Creating a disaster is not creating evil.. I don't know where you got that from.. but that's completely off.

Smh.. The word "Evil" being used means calamity or disaster. If a different version says calamity or disaster it's translating what it originally meant.. NOT the modern definition of the word EVIL. God can't be Evil by are modern definition of the word.. or our standard because God is without sin.

Since when does Creating a disaster = Creating immoral behavior?

Again that passage is presenting a common theme.. its NOT saying he's "evil"

Are you serious ? So when these Terrorists create Disaster by Flying Planes into Buildings they are creating Evil ? Or when the Nazis created Disaster by killing Millions of Jews they was not creating Evil ? Seriously, it's like you are not even thinking about what you are saying here anymore.

The Bible says clearly that GOD creates Evil or in other translations GOD creates Disaster... now I have given you examples of someone creating Disaster and it being directly associated with creating Evil.

Since Creating Disasters = Immoral Behavior... that's when. It's always been that way as someone who creates Disaster or Calamity is creating Evil... if you don't believe me... then give examples of anyone who creates Disaster or creates Calamity and have not created Evil.

Right, it's saying he creates Evil just as he creates Peace... as in contrast he creates Light and creates Darkness. Been said this like five times now.

This.

@king_saturn: Here's what I'm saying so you REALLY understand.

• 1. Evil back then: Calamity and Disaster.

Evil now: Wickedness and Immoral.

• 2. God is not wicked or immoral.. says the same Bible you're quoting.

• 3. Those terrorist and nazis murdered (by our standards) innocent people. They did wicked and immoral things because they are. What they did is not justifiable because they are human with a selfish wicked agenda. You cannot compare that to God.

4. God has always had reasons for causing disasters.

5. Any disaster or calamity MAN has caused is due to humans being evil. THATS how it's always been.

6. The opposite of Peace is Conflct not Evil.. Evil is not a synonym of Conflict.

Well, in Islam it goes all the way back to the creation of Adam. Allah God) ordered his angels to bow down to him. Everyone of them did aside from Beast(Devil). He rebelled against Allah and said that he was made from fire therefore he should be above Adam

and shouldn't bow down to him. And then Allah told Beast to try and get them to his(evil) way while Allah would try to lead them to good both through various means(could be a prophet or could even be the voice inside your head) as a test to humanity. In Islam it is believed that Allah created people as an innocent blank slate. Gave them their own free will to follow either his or the Beast's way. So we can't be inherently good or bad wecan only be (with a Jessica Red imprrssion) "drawn that way".

1. Evil is Evil in whatever context you try to play it out as... Evil even in this context is someone who creates Disaster or Calamity... that's always been the action of Evil. It doesn't matter how many times you try to say it isn't... or how you try to twist the passage to mean something else. It is what it is.

2. Well GOD has done things that could be classified as wicked and immoral from the same Bible I am quoting... I thought I brought that up with the whole David and the Census situation where GOD killed 70,000 people because of what David had done. So here again, we have a problem. As well as this very passage here saying GOD creates Evil and Disaster.

3. The passage in Isaiah 45:7 clearly says that GOD creates Peace or Evil... so he can create both. The purpose of the example was to show that creating Disaster = creating Immortal Behavior. Which I did perfectly. GOD does both creates Peace and Evil or Disaster if you will. Not just one or the other.

4. I know, but Terrorists have reasons for creating disasters too... so do Nazis, and Serial Killers. Now you may feel that GOD's reasons are solid enough for these disaster to be something else other than evil. Well like I said, there are examples in the Bible where GOD has caused disasters upon those who didn't directly do anything wrong. I gave you one earlier with David and the Census. 2 Samuel 24

5. And why isn't this the same for GOD ? We already been over the passage like twenty times... it says the same thing each time it aint like it's gonna change. It says GOD creates Peace and Evil... he does both.

6. You are not answering the question though... what is the opposite of "Someone who creates Peace" it's "Someone who creates Disaster" according to what "You" yourself has defined Evil as, not me. So you can't just go twisting the meaning of the words now that it suites you better. If Evil is supposed to mean Disaster and Calamity... let it be so.

@dimitridkatsis: No man, I've had that class we were around 17 and only 5 people passed the subject. That includes me in the 5 people who passed. Lol thought that I'd share it.

@theblondegod: oh, cool story.

@dimitridkatsis: lol sorry dude, I know it's nonsense and out of discussion. :)

@theblondegod: nah it's cool, kinda understand, in greek high schools ancient greek is a standard lesson you could feel your head aching trying to translate philosophers.

@king_saturn:

Ok.. you're really not getting this and you're not helping anything.

I'll use this "Right, it's saying he creates Evil just as he creates Peace... as in contrast he creates Light and creates Darkness. Been said this like five times now."

Ok so light is the opposite of darkness which you've pointed out right?

The opposite of Peace is Conflict. The word used is Evil in that passage which meant Disaster and Calamity which goes along with conflict.

God is not immoral. So stop using scripture to contradict what the Bible says to make it mean what you want it to mean.

God gave the punishment David chose. The punishment killed 70,000. Why God did that, God doesn't have to explain. But, if we look back in sure there are reasons one would be Israels disobience for thousands of years. Or something simple as showing the people what happens when their leader goes astray. Point is God punished David for something he wasn't suppose to do and he suffered because of his actions.

Why isn't it the same for God?.. God does not sin, and always has a reason that isn't evil.

I'm not the on twisting.. you are by saying Gods immoral because of a scripture you don't understand, but still choose to use it to claim something that contradicts the Bible.

@dimitridkatsis: About that picture.

Now I may sound evil but IIRC there were only about a handful of people that weren't evil at that time so he just decided to hit the reset button in a sense to abolish the evil and to be perfectly honest if people are really truly evil and have no chance of reformation I don't care at all If they die.

@king_saturn: @dimitridkatsis: @chillxpill:

@dimitridkatsis: lolololololol

@ultragreenboy: yeah lol ain't gonna cut it, you're saying murdering a handful of good people, children even, is work in progress

I think it is you who isn't getting this... as it is you who have to twist and change meanings of words to fit your own agenda not me.

1. Alrighty Then, so we can say then that "Someone who creates conflict is creating Evil" because if creating Conflict is the same as someone who creates Disaster and someone who creates Calamity... then that person is creating Evil. Problem Solved.

2. The scripture backs up a rather vile nature of The Almighty... don't get Salty with me just because you don't like it. I didn't write the damn book.

3. Right, but why would GOD be having the Israelites punished for something David did ? Especially 70,000 Israelites at that ? David was the one who sinned to cause the problem not the Israelites directly. So the action of GOD here seems immoral as he is punishing thousands for the sinful action of one man who should have been dealt with accordingly. GOD didn't punish David he punished the Israelites... he killed 70,000 of them... he didn't do anything to David.

4. Well again, according to the scripture I just gave that you tried to work around... GOD does sometimes do bad things.

5. You are the one twisting, you have been ever since we began this discussion... I do understand these scriptures way better than you ever did... heck, some of this stuff you are probably just seeing for the first time in your life... just like most Christians who claim that they know God and his word so well. Woe ye Christian Hypocrite...

Interesting !

@king_saturn: Right?

How can anyone enjoy Heaven when people are burning in Hell?

@king_saturn:

1. "Someone who creates conflict is creating evil" is basically saying Someone who creates conflict is creating conflict If you're using the word from the passage in that scripure. So you're really not getting anywhere with that.

1b. If you're using the concept (sin) you're just not making sense. You'r basically saying God is creating something no where in scripture says he creates. You're making it up.

1c. You fail to realize that the God in the Bible is a God of love and wrath (the common theme in that passage). So of course God would create peace and conflict. Does that make him evil? No, but by our standard yes.. which means 0 if you don't know or understand Gods reasoning.

2. What I get annoyed with is when people set standards for things they can't set a standard for because of their place in the universe. God has a reason to do whatever he does and he doesn't have to explain why. Don't be salty about it because you can't accept that. If you didn't write the book why are trying to passed things off about God as facts when the Bible says otherwise?

3. That was the punishment David chose. David asked why did God do that. It hurt David because others were punished as well. God never answered David, but there are two valid reasons.

1. Israels rebellion for hundreds to probably a thousand years.

2. To show the people what happens when your leader go astray.

4. God is just and holy he can't sin. God has a reason to do whatever he does. God has every right to wipe out humanity. Since I know you're going to disagree why doesn't he have the right?

5. How am I twisting anything? I've been saying what the translation meant, and telling you that it's not the same has the concept (sin). God cannot create and did not create evil (sin).. Man did. You want to tell ME that I'm twisting yet you're passing on lies and who God is based on your opinion not what the Bible actually says.

If there is an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being out there their morality and ethics would more than likely be be obscure to us.

First of all, it's rather obvious that the ideas of damnation were only made to keep people in check. Christianity was a product of it's time.

Due to that, it's bound to have flawed logic. The people making this stuff were in the Middle Ages for pete's sake. The same time period where steak made flies and bathing gave you the plague.

@mikethekiller: Would an omniscient being even have any morals?

The most logical retort is that the evil put in has an end purpose of doing something good better then the evil not existing at all. but im not religious and i think the best response is gods not real.

Another answer wpuld be he gave us free reign and is neither melovelant nor belavelen he simply is allowing us our own path.

Who knows.

So preventing somebody from doing something bad is evil now? Policemen are evil? Counselors are evil?

"God" has omnipresence, omnipotence, and omniscience at his utility. He could have stopped any major war or genocide without interfering with free will.

But he didn't.

Because this "Almighty God" is not real. Even of he was, I'd tell him to kiss my hairy ass for letting all of this bullshit happen.

/end rant

>Says Bible=Middle Ages

>Knows what he's talking about

3/10 Made me laugh for a second.

@xlr87t3: Middle Ages began in the Fifth Century. Christianity originated in the First to Second Century. Christianity didn't reach Europe until the Middle Ages.

How about an actual counter to my post instead of that condescending crap you just gave me?

1. The direct translation of the passage in Isaiah 45:7 is "I the LORD makes Peace and creates Evil" now we have established that the variation for "Evil" as "Disaster" or "Calamity". You later added Conflict as a way of softening the blow of the original variations of the word. No translation uses "Conflict", They either use "Evil" or "Disaster" or "Calamity".

So again, how is it that saying "Someone who creates Disaster" is not like saying "Someone who creates Evil" what is the difference between a person who creates Disaster and a person who creates Evil ?

1b. Did I say anything about "Sin" ever ? I have said time and time again, that the passage says God creates Evil... and you know what ? It Does !

1c. What does this have to do with GOD creating Evil ? The themes in Isaiah 45:7 are Light and Darkness / making Peace and creating Evil... again, the direct translations of any version of the Bible use "Evil" or "Disaster" or "Calamity" none of them use Conflict. Again, how is GOD not a doer of bad things if he says he creates "Evil" or "Disaster" ?

2. But GOD explained why he did what he did... it was because of what David did. The Bible is clear, that the reason that GOD caused for 70,000 Israelites to be killed is because David took a census. That's why it's messed up. Because the Israelites didn't do anything. It aint me trying to set any standards for GOD... it's me examining the very book that gives GOD's standard and seeing from stories in there that something is terribly amiss here. Especially with the nature of GOD concerning some of these tales in the Old Testament.

3. I get that... but the point what Why did GOD have David choosing punishments for the Israelites in the first place ? They didn't call for David to take a Census... David did it himself. So David should have been punished not the Israelites in this situation.

a. That doesn't make any sense though... because it was David who committed the Sin. Not the Israelites... Yahweh may have been upset with them but he always was and would deal with them accordingly anyways. The Sin that caused this was what David had done with the Census.

b. Still doesn't make any sense... because if GOD wanted to show what happens when a leader goes astray he would punish the Leader and not the People.

4. Well from what I have seen in the Bible, GOD can do some vicious stuff to people... so I don't know about all that.

5. You have been trying to use the term "Conflict" as a variant for "Evil" from the passage in Isaiah 45:7 when no other variation of the Bible uses "Conflict" then we have your perceptions of 2 Samuel 24 with David and the Census. I mean you are doing a little twisting for your own means. Well again, the Bible says you are wrong by what's in Isaiah 45:7. GOD does create Evil... trying to reword it as Sin or whatever changed nothing.

@jonez120:

You remind me of those edgy atheist who go around talking about how bad religious people are, but are just as annoying and/or bad.

Religious threads on the internet never end well....

@king_saturn: 1. I wasn't trying to soften anything because I've been mentioning all 4 words. I'm using conflict as a contrast to peace because it's an opposite like darkness is to light. Conflict is part of both Disaster and Calamity.

1b. You didn't have to. You're implying by saying God does bad immoral things.

1c. It has to do with this whole passage. God punishes and rewards disobedience and obedience. You saying "Evil" and Disaster in the same sentence is pretty much saying the same thing considering Evil means calamity or disaster in this passage. So unless you mean Evil as in immoral (which he isn't) your question should be a "why" question not a "how " question.

2. Yes but that doesn't explain why the 70,000 were punished along with David.

3. That was the punishment. He had to choose his punishment. Again you have to understand Israel have been rebelling against God for hundreds of years.

AB: some things we are not suppose to understand. God has his reasons.

4. I guess that's just you then.

5. Same as 1. and I'm not twisting.

@chillxpill:

Good and Evil, Right and Wrong. Mere CONCEPTS.

1. Okay, well for some reason None of the Writers of the Bible thought it right to use the word Conflict as a variant to Evil in this particular passage... now I said earlier that if you are going to use Conflict then it has to be associated with Disaster and Calamity as is to Evil because that's the only way it would fit properly. I mean no other version of the Bible uses Conflict as a variant to Evil in that passage in Isaiah 45:7

1b. I am implying that GOD does what he says he does in the passage of Isaiah... I aint making these claims on my own basis... but by what the very Bible says about him as he supposedly proclaimed these things in Isaiah about himself.

1c. But the passage is a Universal Concept, it's not GOD just saying I form Light and Darkness for just Israel but for everything as well as GOD making Peace and creating Evil... it was a Universal Statement as GOD makes Peace and creates Evil on a Universal Scale. I have "No Question" just an answer and that is "GOD creates Evil" as stated by the very Bible.

2. It does, it was because of the disobedience of David. It's the same situation of when GOD punished the Baby that David had with Bathsheba... because David had sinned... GOD took his wrath out on someone else instead of David.

3. Okay but we are back to square one again, because like I said, GOD has always dealt with Israel's Sin accordingly... for GOD to wait on David to Sin so he could go and kill 70,000 people does not make any sense... especially when David was the transgressor.

4. Me and several other people...

@king_saturn: 1. Ok. The calamity and disasters are cause by the conflict between God and man.

1b. Yes, but that doesn't make what he does bad or immoral.

1c. Ok. So you're talking about the "evil" in the passage correct?.

2. That's not what I mean though. I'm saying he doesn't explain why his sins affected others as well.

3. Well this is what I mean by the reasons. The only two logical valid reasons would be.

1. To punish Israel for hundreds of years of rebellion. 2. To make a statement.

And God has the right to do any of those.

4. Of course.

And because I see everyone quoting this like it means anything

^ That pic doesn't mean anything either.

This is exactly what it's all about no? Someone made the choice to create a world and beings (who didn't make the choice of being created) that would have to choose to love and obey him or be disgarded. Well first of all this is the most pathetic reason to create a world and second he has no right to judge those who live and die in all the conditions he created not even by becoming one because he isn't everyone who's lived and died under any conditions but someone who knew how his masochistic trip to earth would turn out.

1. The Passage says GOD creates Evil... not the nature of why he does. Maybe GOD creates Evil for other reasons just besides Conflict with Man.

1b. Is there any other Evil other than what we would consider Bad ? If someone is creating Disasters or Evil... what else do we associate with that but Bad ?

1c. Uh Yeah... there was no other discussion but the Evil in the passage.

2. He didn't have to... it's just like why GOD choose to hurt other people for what sins David had done. GOD does stuff like that.

3. Your reasons don't make sense though

a. GOD had been punishing Israel according to their sins for their years of rebellion... he wasn't bottling up his wrath just for this one big attack here.

b. GOD had been making statements before with Israel... killing 70,000 people for the sin of one man only makes the statement of GOD being unjust which is linked to doing bad things.

GOD can do whatever he wants... but the point is if GOD is Good and he is Love... would he do stuff like this ?

@dimitridkatsis: @king_saturn:

God wanted to make a world. It was never a matter of "had". The very fact that we have a choice shows that's it's not a matter of "he had to create us to love him". What happened in the garden was all do to choice. People make bad choices all the time knowing there's a worse outcome. People believe what they want to believe because that's their right as a human being. There's nothing wrong with having free will. Why would you want someone to force you to love them? Is that really love if it's forced?

1. I'm not suggesting that conflict is the only reason, but just one major reason.

1b. That really depends on each individual person. We can only say someone or something is wrong if we're on equal ground. Human beings can only determine what's bad or good about other humans because we are all in the same boat.

We can't put a standard on what God does.

It's like a straight F student telling a straight A student he isn't studying or doing his work the right way.

1c. Ok. Just making sure so we can have a nice no confusion conversation.

2. Oh I understand. I was explaining what I meant.

3. Not necessarily, I mean God has every right to wipe us out. It's not like the Israelites weren't rebelling against God.

There's nothing wrong with reminders. To them it probably came across as a warning. God knows that answer. All we do is try to understand it for what it is.

That's the thing.. you can't just look at one side of the coin. The God of the bible is a God of love and wrath. He's perfect and just. "Our ways are not like your ways, our thoughts are your thoughts". Will we never know everything about Gods reasoning. All we can do is observe and believe what we choose to believe.. fact or opinion.

@mr_clockwork91: Sorry for the late reply

1. It was our choice, not his. He didn't tell us "hey go sin" He said "DO NOT SIN". But we did it, it's our fault. Not his.

3. "Those that look upon a woman lustfully hath already committed adultery in his heart".

4. How many times do I have to tell you that you're over complicating it? You want him to give us free will in certain areas but no in others, that's not free will.

5. That's still taking away a choice.

6. Please try to understand, you know my point.

7. You said that Satan tempting God means that God's not omnipotent, so Satan asking God to do something means he's not omnipotent? Jesus could've turned Satan into a creamy beagle and eaten him on the spot. xD

8. I'm not sure what else to call it, but fair enough. I won't try to insult you.

9. He's not perfect because we didn't obey him, when he ALLOWED US to not obey him? That's exactly the point, he ALLOWED US to not obey him, again, free will.

10. You're nitpicking my metaphors. ~_~

11. Why does he put us through trials? Perhaps for our benefit?

@dimitridkatsis What's your point with that comic panel?

So it's God's fault that we sinned because he told us not to kill eachother? ~.~ The tree of Knowledge was intended for something else besides us, probably.

@jeepeh: a made choice is no choice