#1 Edited by alternative_backup (624 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Cal Lightman (Lie to Me):

vs.

Patrick Jane (The Mentalist):

Who would win in a game mentally and psychologic?

#2 Posted by theONEtaichou (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, this is the one!

While my instincts say Jane... Cal is his equal. But the worst thing is Cal has a tendency of out-foxing his own trained staff while Jane tends to play with Lisbon etc. Cal would read Jane, Jane not so much towards Cal.

I give it to Cal 5-6,7/10...

good day

#3 Posted by beautifulrevery (1505 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm backing Cal on this one as well

#4 Edited by robertloucksjr (1711 posts) - - Show Bio

Patrick Jane fairly easily. I don't think he can tell if Jane is lying and Jane tops him in everything else.

#5 Edited by RogueShadow (10230 posts) - - Show Bio

Cal is superior at reading people, he just is. Patrick is really, really good, but Cal is THE best, he discovered micro-expressions and almost all the science in the show is based on his findings [In universe, obviously in real life it is Ekman]. Jane's only real advantage is trickery, in overall cunning and deception Cal takes it. I know Jane has an eidetic memory, but Cal may also have one, he remembers minute micro-expressions from random encounters from 3-4 days prior. Patrick is better in general deductive reasoning but not by much. Cal wins on average 7/10. Cal's one of the smartest TV characters in my opinion, Patrick Jane's isn't quite there in my opinion.

#7 Edited by 9dragons (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow:

I'm going to have to side with Patrick. A person can have all the physical facial expression of sincerity if they believe what they are saying is true, hypnosis and suggestion. "People see what they want to see." Patrick has the ability to implant suggestion turning it into "people see what Patrick wants them to see." Patrick plays with the mind of everyone around him, including himself. Patrick utilize psychology, mathematics, science to degree close enough to be called psychic by those around him.

If push far enough, in defensive position. It is well within Patrick ability to hypnotize himself into believing that he is another person and have an elaborate plan to lead Cal in a goose chase. It could be days, months, years after the case is over and Patrick stumbles upon a picture, key word that has been planted before hand to awaken his suppress memories, personality.

In offensive position: Patrick has a strange ability to build rapport/trust with complete strangers. He can actually use the people around Cal. Remember believing is not lying.

Patrick reads people differently then Cal. In particular to where suspects have to be. Patrick doesn't need to put suspects in a interrogation room, he usually release them so that he can get evidence, because when suspects are in their environment suspects are easier to read. This give Patrick more wiggle room.

So it depends on where the confrontation is out in the field or inside a interrogation room. Patrick can certainly hold his own inside and outside.

#8 Posted by RogueShadow (10230 posts) - - Show Bio

@9dragons: Sorry, just saw this. Cal is a trained psychologist, applied psychology, in general that means nothing to Patrick, but he is not deceiving Cal in any way, whereas Cal can actually trick Patrick in my opinion. Cal's only ever been outdone when his emotions got in the way, which was once. Patrick relies to some extent on physical deduction, Cal doesn't, though he has proven capable of that too. It's literally impossible to lie to him. Loker used a muscle relaxant and Cal still knew. I think that once Cal gets a baseline for Patrick, he wins.

He's not building a rapport with Cal, the man is a walking polygraph but approximately 10,0000000000000000000000000000000000000 times more efficient. Plus he's highly antisocial and incredibly perceptive even outside of body language any subversion techniques, subliminals, trickery etc will not work on Cal. I would also say that if this were a long term strategy Moriarty vs Sherlock deal, he's a lot more tactically adept and physically adept

If Cal passed himself off as a psychic nobody would know.

Plus, he literally invented a branch of science, Paul Ekman style.

#9 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16557 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

Skimming through both series parallel, I think patrick's got this. Cal's methods seem more effective because of the technical details given, while patrick's are generally accompanied by his child-like behavior. But overall, patrick's magic seems more efficient to me. His skills reach into various areas, sometimes reaching borderline supernatural. I think his expertise on mind would give him advantage over cal's body language (?) detection..

(Finishing season 1, easiest comparsion would be the military case. Patrick's entry statement would be.. why are you lying? I mean, you clearly are hiding something important, I just don't know what. And then looking at other members would mean a dramatic declaration of solved case.)

Online
#10 Posted by Joygirl (19277 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim Roth wins because he's Tim Roth and the other one isn't.

#11 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16557 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Tim Roth wins because he's Tim Roth and the other one isn't.

Tim roth is a myth. He's a lie.

Online
#12 Edited by Joygirl (19277 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

Tim Roth wins because he's Tim Roth and the other one isn't.

Tim roth is a myth. He's a lie.

Tim Roth disagrees.

#13 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16557 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@joygirl said:

Tim Roth wins because he's Tim Roth and the other one isn't.

Tim roth is a myth. He's a lie.

Tim Roth disagrees.

A brilliant lie. But a lie nonetheless.

Online
#14 Posted by nickzambuto (13307 posts) - - Show Bio

I literally just watched Lie To Me for the first time today, hopped on Comic Vine, and saw a match with Cal.

#15 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (16557 posts) - - Show Bio

I literally just watched Lie To Me for the first time today, hopped on Comic Vine, and saw a match with Cal.

See? I get the timing for a bump correct. :D

Have you watched mentalist, though?

Online
#16 Posted by nickzambuto (13307 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

I literally just watched Lie To Me for the first time today, hopped on Comic Vine, and saw a match with Cal.

See? I get the timing for a bump correct. :D

Have you watched mentalist, though?

Unfortunately not, which is why I didn't give my opinion on the battle.

#17 Edited by hulk_post_absolute_power (291 posts) - - Show Bio

Violate s the rule that one character must be from a comic

#18 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (16557 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@nickzambuto said:

I literally just watched Lie To Me for the first time today, hopped on Comic Vine, and saw a match with Cal.

See? I get the timing for a bump correct. :D

Have you watched mentalist, though?

Unfortunately not, which is why I didn't give my opinion on the battle.

Sad :(

Online
#19 Posted by nickzambuto (13307 posts) - - Show Bio

Violate s the rule that one character must be from a comic

Nobody gives a crap about that rule.

#20 Edited by Mercy_ (92673 posts) - - Show Bio

Moving this to off-topic.

Moderator
#21 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio

@9dragons said:

@rogueshadow:

I'm going to have to side with Patrick. A person can have all the physical facial expression of sincerity if they believe what they are saying is true, hypnosis and suggestion. "People see what they want to see." Patrick has the ability to implant suggestion turning it into "people see what Patrick wants them to see." Patrick plays with the mind of everyone around him, including himself. Patrick utilize psychology, mathematics, science to degree close enough to be called psychic by those around him.

If push far enough, in defensive position. It is well within Patrick ability to hypnotize himself into believing that he is another person and have an elaborate plan to lead Cal in a goose chase. It could be days, months, years after the case is over and Patrick stumbles upon a picture, key word that has been planted before hand to awaken his suppress memories, personality.

In offensive position: Patrick has a strange ability to build rapport/trust with complete strangers. He can actually use the people around Cal. Remember believing is not lying.

Patrick reads people differently then Cal. In particular to where suspects have to be. Patrick doesn't need to put suspects in a interrogation room, he usually release them so that he can get evidence, because when suspects are in their environment suspects are easier to read. This give Patrick more wiggle room.

So it depends on where the confrontation is out in the field or inside a interrogation room. Patrick can certainly hold his own inside and outside.

Exactly this are the main reasons why Patrick is superior than Cal, the only that matches Patrick is Poirot.

#22 Edited by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

Bump.

Skimming through both series parallel, I think patrick's got this. Cal's methods seem more effective because of the technical details given, while patrick's are generally accompanied by his child-like behavior. But overall, patrick's magic seems more efficient to me. His skills reach into various areas, sometimes reaching borderline supernatural. I think his expertise on mind would give him advantage over cal's body language (?) detection..

(Finishing season 1, easiest comparsion would be the military case. Patrick's entry statement would be.. why are you lying? I mean, you clearly are hiding something important, I just don't know what. And then looking at other members would mean a dramatic declaration of solved case.)

Exactly, Mentalist is superior to Cal, just look at @9dragons answer.

"A person can have all the physical facial expression of sincerity if they believe what they are saying is true, hypnosis and suggestion. "People see what they want to see." Patrick has the ability to implant suggestion turning it into "people see what Patrick wants them to see." Patrick plays with the mind of everyone around him, including himself. Patrick utilize psychology, mathematics, science to degree close enough to be called psychic by those around him."

#23 Edited by Lunacyde (18429 posts) - - Show Bio

Cal is the better lie detector, but Patrick is better all around. Like many have stated already he at times appears supernatural in his abilities of perception and deduction. Cal can tell if you're lying, but Patrick can tell you things about yourself that you don't think anyone else could possibly know.

#24 Edited by Arcadian999 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Being an avid watcher of both shows I have an opinion but first

1. You cannot hypnotise yourself

2. You cannot hide Micro expressions Cal invented the science and he still cannot

3. Piorot is no match for Patrick don't even go there

In direct contact Lightman can rile up anybody even with Janes amazing ability to keep his cool, and if you get riled up Lightman can win , his micro expression ability cuts through Janes poker style manipulations, you cannot be deceptive in direct contact with Cal he took down the worlds best poker players and is banned from Vegas the capital city of manipulation

So direct battle Lightman wins

In the long game both are master of the Long Con and Janes ability to manipulate the others around him (to a slightly better ability than Lightmans) comes into play

So long game Moriarity vs Sherlock style I would say it's uncertain but leaning towards Patrick

#25 Posted by Arcadian999 (6 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldfinch:

No..... Just no Piorot is no match for either of these players

#26 Posted by Eisenfauste (8112 posts) - - Show Bio

Cal

#27 Posted by Goldfinch (235 posts) - - Show Bio

@goldfinch:

No..... Just no Piorot is no match for either of these players

You're 100% wrong about this, the fact remains that Poirot has much more complex/much more complicated crime cases than any of fictional detectives.

It is impossible that Cal Lightman or even Mentalist would be able to detect Stephen Norton as the psychological manipulator in the Curtain (because Norton has never said anything specific and yet he made other people to kill without doing it on purpose)-fact, it is impossible for Lightman or even Mentalist to detect the Big four on their own-fact.

Crimes that Lightman and Mentalist have solved are nothing to compare against crime cases that Poirot has solved (because of their complexity and twisted, unexpected plots).