Ben Carson: Prison Proves Being Gay is a choice.

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Jphu8414

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Congrats Mr. Carson!

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lesterlawton

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Ben Carson must have been dipping into the hospital's drug supply, because you have to be either really high or ridiculously stupid to say something like that.

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SC

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#53 SC  Moderator

Well firstly Ben Carson isn't the first politician to say something extremely stupid. Last few years we have been told by politicians that "The incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low." and "from what I understand from doctors [pregnancy from rape] is really rare ... If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down" and my favorite "It is almost but not quite impossible to become pregnant on the basis of rape. The odds are one in millions and millions and millions… there is a physical reason for that. Rape, obviously, is a traumatic experience. When that traumatic experience is undergone, a woman secretes a certain secretion, which has a tendency to kill sperm." So its par for course really and now he is apologizing for his comments.

To address his comments though, well his argument and ideas are lacking. Sexual behavior and actions aren't the same as sexual orientation, homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality are just three broad ways to describe an individuals own sense of sexual identity that manifests itself in sexual, romantic engagements and interactions with others, but its more complicated than that, as far as perceptions of others and their own sexual identity, preferences, behavior. Sexual behavior and actions aren't always indicative of sexual orientation, in normal circumstances let alone in the conditions of some prisons (loss of freedom and control, hyper masculinity, lack of adequate sexual release)

A big problem with some prisons isn't all the consensual sex happening but the rape and forced sexual activity and as others have mentioned there is an aspect of domination, power, control and aggression about. Rape outside prison is said to do more with power and control than anything motivated sexually even if that is an element. Then in prisons that treat their inmates better where the focus is on rehabilitation rather than punishment, they do not report the same levels of problem with rape that some other prisons do. Treat people like caged animals, they behave like caged animals. Then again the odds are that Ben Carson attitude about prisons is that punishment is better than rehabilitation because "bad guys" deserve it, and probably that some woman don't deserve to be raped… but their dress sense and behavior/attitude's mean they are asking for it. So two of the fastest and quick mental exercises one can think of to dispel the idea of prison being a gay conversion facility are probably lost on him. Except… to his benefit he would probably find a lot more people to vote for him based on his ideas about prison and female promiscuity.

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deactivated-5a04a566e9ae3

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Well, I don't remember choosing to like d**k so I'd have to say no.

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frozen

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#55 frozen  Moderator

@karambit said:

@frozen: You do realize that there are multiple religious ideologies that oppose homosexuality, yes?

Yes, each one of them is bigoted.

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BlackLegRaph

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That's actually not surprising seeing as that tends to be the mentality of older generations.

What you are attracted to isn't your choice. I will say that acting on those attractions is a choice though.

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Thewhiteronin

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I sincerely doubt that anything "sexual" in prison is a choice...

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jeanSummers

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Noo nooo your ignat

-Micheal Jackson

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laflux

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@bruxae said:

Eh, they are just horny. I doubt most prisoners would actually continue a commited relationship with the other inmate in question once they get out.

Pretty much this.

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Mortein

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It's not impossible to turn strait people into gay people, and vice-verse, through right psychological stimulations. I'm not sure if this can be interpreted as being gay is a choice, nor do I see why would it matter whether it's a choice or not.

I mean, is being fat a choice? Is being afraid of spiders a choice?

Gay people want their rights, the rest of us don't lose anything if gay people get their rights, so give them their damn rights.

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MonsterStomp

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No. Just like everything else in life, we control very little of it. If they became gay in prison, chances are they were always gay. Its instinct, you don't control instinct.

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nefarious

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I don't concur.

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deactivated-5c901e667a76c

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Mandarinestro

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I doubt prison sex is consensual.

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frozen

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#66 frozen  Moderator

@karambit: If you are using religion as the basis to oppose homosexuality; then I could name a lot of garbage in these religious dogmatic texts which I'm sure you'd not abide by. As another user said, 'hypocrisy if a choice' --- on that note, freedom of speech/expression is a right which should be respected; I use this right to tell people, religion IS a fairy-tale.

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deactivated-097092725

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I was going to throw in some of my worthless cents into the discussion but then I saw this and it does a much better job:

@jphu8414 said:

Congrats Mr. Carson!

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Perfect meme is perfect.

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Nelomaxwell

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Personally, it doesn't matter if it's a choice or not. They're living their lives the way they want to. There's nothing wrong with that. Ben Carson disagrees with homosexuality due to his interpretation of the bible. There's nothing wrong with that, either. But he's using that as a reason to ignore the rights of a group. That's just wrong.

I like the way you think.

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Nelomaxwell

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#69  Edited By Nelomaxwell

@blacklegraph People give me crap for only being attracted to black women, all the time.

@foamborn said:

If they become gay in prison is because they didn't have a choice. I've personally don't recall being given the opportunity to choose so I'm more inclined to think it's not a choice but I do believe everyone's got some unrealized gayness within them.

Does that mean that they also have some unrealized straightness as well? Are we been fair and equal here?

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SpitfirePanda

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Nelomaxwell

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@nelomaxwell said:

@cgoodness said:

No, prison sex is a dominance thing, booty is more upper any than food or water in prison.

Booty War-ya.

Look Here... I Likes Ya... And I Wants Ya...

:P

Now we could do this the easy way or the hard way.

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deactivated-5e3b7f04aeb74

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Somebody call Fleece Johnson.

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King_Saturn

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@king_saturn said:

@nelomaxwell said:

@cgoodness said:

No, prison sex is a dominance thing, booty is more upper any than food or water in prison.

Booty War-ya.

Look Here... I Likes Ya... And I Wants Ya...

:P

Now we could do this the easy way or the hard way.

giggles

On a serious note, isn't Ben Carson the same guy who compared Obama Care to Slavery in America ? Why are we listening to what this fellow has to say again ?

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FoamBorn

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Does that mean that they also have some unrealized straightness as well? Are we been fair and equal here?

yeah probably, I think that some experiences under certain circumstances can unlock certain sexual behaviors that had hitherto been inert.

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Nelomaxwell

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@foamborn said:

@nelomaxwell said:

Does that mean that they also have some unrealized straightness as well? Are we been fair and equal here?

yeah probably, I think that some experiences under certain circumstances can unlock certain sexual behaviors that had hitherto been inert.

So does yeah probably= a yes or that reluctance of one but not the other?

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FoamBorn

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So does yeah probably= a yes or that reluctance of one but not the other?

I just don't want to come across as a know-it-all, I'm not an expert on the matter and I don't purport to know the facts.

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Nelomaxwell

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@foamborn said:

@nelomaxwell said:

So does yeah probably= a yes or that reluctance of one but not the other?

I just don't want to come across as a know-it-all, I'm not an expert on the matter and I don't purport to know the facts.

Let's say I'm asking your opinion...

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pooty

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@nothingclever: @karambit: There was no fail in his post. The mosaic law is still followed by millions of Jews and BILLIONS of Muslims. Those laws still contribute to how people view hats. Still the new testament speaks against homosexuality so little has changed in that regard

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NothingClever

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@pooty: Yeah, he is just trollling. I'm hoping you posted this thread to promote discussion but it skirts dangerously close to discrimination against a group of human beings. I think the Vine can be better than that. The humane thing to do would be to delete this thread or ask for a lock of your own volition.

Besides, my "Ligers are Awesome Princliple" pretty much wrecks religion. Lol.

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pooty

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@nothingclever: I made this thread because I just had this debate with a Co worker then he showed me this video. And even though most people are talking about rape, some sex in jail is consensual and leads to falling in love. Even though before prison both were heterosexual. I've also seen interviews between men who had sex with men in jail but don't feel they are gay. When they got out they date women again. I

I don't believe in locking threads because of a couple trolls. they can be ignored

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NothingClever

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@pooty: It's not about the trolls. IMHO this is pretty discriminatory to homosexuals. The "it's a choice" point of view is horrible. It is rooted in pervasive religious oppression and is responsible for "pray away the gay" type camps.

The prison environment is definitely not a good place from whence to form your ideas about homosexuality. It is not a choice if they only have one option. Also, the environment is essentially a primitive society based around dominance through violence from the staff all the way down to the lowliest inmate. Can homosexuality be, to some degree, conditioned? Sure, I bet 20 years spent behind bars with the only possibilities for social and sexual intimacy being other men can do a number on a heretofore straight man (the same could be said of women in prison I'm sure).

Prison is a completely unnatural, debilitating environment and is in no way related to the comparative freedom of mainstream society. Drawing conclusions from prison experiences, within a microcosm where sex, violence, and social structure are so closely tied together, and applying that same "logic" to an environment where "choices" can be made (though homosexuality is not a choice) is just flawed.

Also, consider the source: a religious nutbag who practices neuroscience... dude, God gave those people neurological conditions. Quit effing with His work.

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FoamBorn

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#82  Edited By FoamBorn

@nelomaxwell said:

Let's say I'm asking your opinion...

My opinion is that until we find a human gene that determines an individual's sexual orientation, we have to assume every human being contains more or less potential to develop hetero, homo, bi and asexuality and that ultimately, our sexual orientation is shaped by a myriad of factors.

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mtuske

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He's obviously not talking about the guy getting raped. That's no fault of his own. It's the guy doing the raping that is gay.

In my opinion I think it's disgusting but stick it wherever you want. Not my business.

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Marvete_e_DCnauta

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So what, If It really is?

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XLR87T3

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#85  Edited By XLR87T3
@lunacyde said:

@karambit said:
@lunacyde said:
@karambit said:

@lunacyde: Not trolling at all. Just sayin' what's on the old noggin, because freedom of speech and what not :)

I'm sure. :)

Your thoughts just happen to be bigoted and discriminatory....

And your thoughts just happen to be detrimental to human advancement. Discriminatory? Um...I've never taken a person's rights away. Try again? :)

Sure i'll play along...Detrimental to society in what way?

Also, it doesn't matter if you've taken anyone's rights away. Your statements are bigoted against a particular group of people. I'm sure if you called blacks, jews,women etc "disgusting" people would see that as discriminatory.

ITT: Troll or get trolled. You guys are obviously at a stalemate!

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Strafe Prower

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I'm glad that Comicvine is showing up and showing how flawed his argument is. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling :)