Ben Carson announces 2016 Presidential run

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frozen

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#1  Edited By frozen  Moderator

So it begins...

http://time.com/3845489/ben-carson-campaign-launch/

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deactivated-5e3b7f04aeb74

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It has already begun.

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Lateralus

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Bernie2016!!!

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Super_Mod

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He's got my vote!

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ericmbacon

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Yeah, he should stick with his practice. He is one of those black candidates/pundits that Fox Newsers like because he hates other black people.

"I'm not a scientist, but, uh, so that gives me the right to make unscientific claims."

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frozen

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#6  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@ericmbacon: How does he hate other black people? He may be ignorant, but it is perhaps even more ignorant to assume that there should not be black Republicans, especially considering some black Democrats shill for votes and play the race card.

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micah007123

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@ericmbacon: He hates other black people? What has he said/done in the past that would suggest that if you don't mind me asking.

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Lateralus

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I don't know about "hating" black people.....but he does think Obamacare is akin to slavery which is an insult to many black people in the U.S

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EdBlank

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A black repub is a weird thing. A significant percentage of the other repubs believe in the rebel flag. That means slavery.

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ericmbacon

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#10  Edited By ericmbacon

@micah: He does his best Bill Cosby impression- telling black people why they have screwed up. It is always their fault. Apparently Black people don't like to have strong family values and they take advantage of "racist" institutional tricks that get them into colleges...you know like the one Ben Carson took advantage of when he went to school.

I think it is strange for black people to be republicans, but not unexpected. The difference is Carson is in a higher tax bracket and some people become republicans to protect their money. I don't know how gay people could be republican. I only understand how rich people can be republican.

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ericmbacon

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#11  Edited By ericmbacon

I should clarify. I don't mean hates black people like Ben Carson is racist. I think he has contempt and apathy for black people because Ben Carson was able to make it and be successful so he looks down at other black people who feel they are being held down by institutional bias and the racism of poverty in America.

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frozen

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#12  Edited By frozen  Moderator

@ericmbacon said:

I should clarify. I don't mean hates black people like Ben Carson is racist. I think he has contempt and apathy for black people because Ben Carson was able to make it and be successful so he looks down at other black people who feel they are being held down by institutional bias and the racism of poverty in America.

I don't know why it's strange for black people to vote for Republicans. The Democratic party arguably parasites off minorities, many minorities believe their party hasn't really bettered their lives; and for a party which claims to be pro-diverse, their administrations have come out with racist comments. Black people can think for themselves, they shouldn't be pushed into one specific party which ''minorities should vote for''.

Ben Carson grew up in a time in which society was far more racist towards black people, and he still overcame that. I'm not saying that black people don't have it bad now, they do - but Carson had it worse.

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Lateralus

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#13  Edited By Lateralus

He had it worse in different ways. Carson grew up in Detroit when it was arguably the best city in the U.S......until the 1967 riots at which point he was 15. By the time he graduated high school the Civil Rights Act had been signed. College tuition was far far lower in the late 60s and early 70s when Carson went to college.

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Panthers8901

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Yay Carson has my vote he is a very intelligent man and I trust him to make the right decsisions when it comes to being a president

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ericmbacon

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@frozen: Yes, Ben Carson's generation had it bad. But it is still false equivalency. Consider that the United States has only been a democracy for 50 years. We weren't a democracy when large segments of our population couldn't vote. Now, consider how institutional racism still very much exists. Common racism is coded and hidden to some extent today, but it doesn't give Ben Carson the right to look down on others because he happened to be one of the black people that white people chose to let succeed. There are a million other black men and women that could have been selected for an education that were not because the quota was filled.

I agree that Democrats should be held accountable for their inability to change the system, or even their willingness to go along, but I don't see Democrats trying to make it harder for black people to vote by changing the laws in as many states as they can (Republicans are). I don't see many democrats saying that needing assistance such as food stamps, welfare, or health care is some sort of character flaw. I don't see democrats saying that the dissolution of the black family is what causes police brutality or riots. Just like I see Republicans only talking about the wealth gap in a run up to an election season while still cutting taxes for the top percenters (Death Tax). I do see Republicans cutting taxes for businesses while selling off public schools part by part. I do see Republicans shutting down job unions and taking workers rights while being against raising the minimum wage to a living wage. I do see the Republican congress and the moderate Democrat President trying to pass trade agreements in secret. The last trade agreement done by Republicans in congress and a Democrat in the White House was a disaster. NAFTA may have offered short term gains and a hollow economy but it gutted the middle class by sending jobs overseas.

Here is the kicker: the two party system is a sham. There is a one party system (corporatists) that give the people social issues to argue about so they are distracted while money in politics goes through the roof, lobbying is at an all time high, and the crumbling of the middle class is inversely paralleled by the rise in fascistic (government working on behalf of corporations) economic and political policies.

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micah007123

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#16  Edited By micah007123

@ericmbacon said:

@micah: He does his best Bill Cosby impression- telling black people why they have screwed up. It is always their fault. Apparently Black people don't like to have strong family values and they take advantage of "racist" institutional tricks that get them into colleges...you know like the one Ben Carson took advantage of when he went to school.

I think it is strange for black people to be republicans, but not unexpected. The difference is Carson is in a higher tax bracket and some people become republicans to protect their money. I don't know how gay people could be republican. I only understand how rich people can be republican.

I actually agree with the whole telling black people they have screwed up statement in some situations. For an example wouldn't you say it's irresponsible to have 4 and 5 kids or even to have kids at all when you can barely support yourself and live in the ghetto? This situation isn't universal but it is widespread, and then you have people who claim to live the "hood life" and do their best to make sure any black kid with a book is automatically labeled white. So IMO when you have people who give up opportunities out of sheer ignorance and devalue family ties due to many other practices, then calling them out on that is well within his rights. I'm black so I do have knowledge in this subject.

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ericmbacon

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#17  Edited By ericmbacon

@micah said:
@ericmbacon said:

@micah: He does his best Bill Cosby impression- telling black people why they have screwed up. It is always their fault. Apparently Black people don't like to have strong family values and they take advantage of "racist" institutional tricks that get them into colleges...you know like the one Ben Carson took advantage of when he went to school.

I think it is strange for black people to be republicans, but not unexpected. The difference is Carson is in a higher tax bracket and some people become republicans to protect their money. I don't know how gay people could be republican. I only understand how rich people can be republican.

I actually agree with the whole telling black people they have screwed up statement in some situations. For an example wouldn't you say it's irresponsible to have 4 and 5 kids or even to have kids at all when you can barely support yourself and live in the ghetto? This situation isn't universal but it is widespread, and then you have people who claim to live the "hood life" and do their best to make sure any black kid with a book is automatically labeled white. So IMO when you have people who give up opportunities out of sheer ignorance and devalue family ties due to many other practices, then calling them out on that is well within his rights. I'm black so I do have knowledge in this subject.

I'm not sure of the statistics, but I don't think black people have a monopoly on large families. There are plenty of white Christian families that are huge. Catholics are a great example- they don't believe in birth control. And the idea that it is okay for people to have huge families when they are financially secure is a little shaky; anyone who is financially secure can lose their shirt on any given day. The problem isn't black people, the problem is the culture. We have a reality show starring a married couple that have 20 or 21 children? It is irresponsible, and should be shunned. The human population is a problem. America is plateauing because of the economy, but the world isn't. We don't need huge families.

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Gambit474

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Anything's better than Hilary Clinton

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thatguywithheadphones

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No thanks.

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kgb725

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#20 kgb725  Online

#Flockaforpresident2016

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algorhythm511

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Nope. He is quite inspiring, I will give him that. However, I am just not into making America in a theocracy.

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Jnr6Lil

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@micah said:
@ericmbacon said:

@micah: He does his best Bill Cosby impression- telling black people why they have screwed up. It is always their fault. Apparently Black people don't like to have strong family values and they take advantage of "racist" institutional tricks that get them into colleges...you know like the one Ben Carson took advantage of when he went to school.

I think it is strange for black people to be republicans, but not unexpected. The difference is Carson is in a higher tax bracket and some people become republicans to protect their money. I don't know how gay people could be republican. I only understand how rich people can be republican.

I actually agree with the whole telling black people they have screwed up statement in some situations. For an example wouldn't you say it's irresponsible to have 4 and 5 kids or even to have kids at all when you can barely support yourself and live in the ghetto? This situation isn't universal but it is widespread, and then you have people who claim to live the "hood life" and do their best to make sure any black kid with a book is automatically labeled white. So IMO when you have people who give up opportunities out of sheer ignorance and devalue family ties due to many other practices, then calling them out on that is well within his rights. I'm black so I do have knowledge in this subject.

These are all stereotypes. Most blacks in the ghetto aren't like this.

I agree with what was said in this thread. Ben Carson is one of those blacks Republicans like because he criticizes blacks.

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Gjgp27

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micah007123

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#24  Edited By micah007123

@jnr6lil said:
@micah said:
@ericmbacon said:

@micah: He does his best Bill Cosby impression- telling black people why they have screwed up. It is always their fault. Apparently Black people don't like to have strong family values and they take advantage of "racist" institutional tricks that get them into colleges...you know like the one Ben Carson took advantage of when he went to school.

I think it is strange for black people to be republicans, but not unexpected. The difference is Carson is in a higher tax bracket and some people become republicans to protect their money. I don't know how gay people could be republican. I only understand how rich people can be republican.

I actually agree with the whole telling black people they have screwed up statement in some situations. For an example wouldn't you say it's irresponsible to have 4 and 5 kids or even to have kids at all when you can barely support yourself and live in the ghetto? This situation isn't universal but it is widespread, and then you have people who claim to live the "hood life" and do their best to make sure any black kid with a book is automatically labeled white. So IMO when you have people who give up opportunities out of sheer ignorance and devalue family ties due to many other practices, then calling them out on that is well within his rights. I'm black so I do have knowledge in this subject.

These are all stereotypes. Most blacks in the ghetto aren't like this.

They aren't stereotypes. I understand how you could get that impression but this is a real issue that gets called a stereotype when it is brought up. Bottom line is people make stupid choices then call you wrong for calling them out on said subject, and complain about not having opportunities when in actuality they dug themselves a much bigger whole than what they started in. I agree with @ericmbacon in that the issue is not just a black issue it's also a white issue as well.

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Jnr6Lil

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#25  Edited By Jnr6Lil

@micah: No one said it doesn't happen, but when you use these issues (exaggerate them also when they aren't even that much) and use it to paint all blacks in the ghetto as this and the reason for their failures that's when it becomes stereotypical.

And by the way I'm black too so I also have knowledge on this subject.

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micah007123

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@jnr6lil said:

@micah: No one said it doesn't happen, but when you use these issues and use it to paint all blacks in the ghetto as this and the reason for their failures that's when it becomes stereotypical.

I agree.

And by the way I'm black too so I also have knowledge on this subject.

Ditto my man :)

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makhai

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Cpt_FacePuncher

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I'm surprised there were no surgery puns to be found.

I am disappoint.

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Bluejay4

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@ericmbacon: way to cherry pick things you don't like about Republicans, when I can guarantee you Democrats have done just as worse.

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I don't think he'll get enough money to win, it's all about the money to win these days. You know what tough guys that listen to Rush Limbaugh love to quote him so he's got that going for him.

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pooty

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1) He said homosexuality is a learned behavior because straight men go to prison and can become gay

2) I agree with him that even though things are harder for blacks, it is nothing that they can't overcome and that the biggest problem in their progress is themselves.

3) Repubs and Dems are both rich. Blacks shouldn't be expected to be Dems just because it's the "black" party. Neither party gives a damn about blacks

4) He has no chance of winning

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Jonez_

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A black republican president....

Pfffft, that will be the day....

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BatWatch

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#33  Edited By BatWatch

Not a big fan of Carson. He might be small government guy compared to the Democrats, but he's still too big government for my taste. We don't pull back from 18 trillion in debt by making small changes to national policy. He also has blundered his way through tough interviews in a Palin-esque fashion.

He seems like a nice guy, and I might vote for him if he is the GOP candidate, but he's far from my first choice.

@frozen said:

@ericmbacon: How does he hate other black people? He may be ignorant, but it is perhaps even more ignorant to assume that there should not be black Republicans, especially considering some black Democrats shill for votes and play the race card.

(applauds)

Not to mention that it was the Republicans who freed the slaves, the Republicans that passed the civil rights bill over the objections of racist Democrats and the Republicans who believe minorities are smart enough to succeed without special government assistance. The Democrats are the ones who bring up race constantly as if the color of your skin determined the amount you can succeed in life.

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nishi99

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Let's see.

He's against Gay Rights.

Doesn't believe in Climate Change.

Not a big fan of background checks for gun purchases.

Against food stamps for the poor.

Pro War in most cases.

He's a fundamentalist christian, so he's anti science in general.

Against war crimes law.

Yep, just another republican puppet.

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TheTrueBarryAllen

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ericmbacon

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#36  Edited By ericmbacon

@bluejay4: Cherry pick. The last time there was a good republican in this country he was warning us about the military industrial complex. And what did we do, we ignored it. And his party went so far to the right they give defense blank checks to make tanks and jets no one ever uses. The only good republicans throughout our history have been progressive. They were against slavery, against corporate power in politics, and pro-environment. Now we have a party run by people that deny science, are afraid of gays, and immigrants, will do anything to protect the second amendment from even the most common sense regulation, believe in trickle down economics and union busting that wiped out the middle class. Democrats might be incompetent at getting things done but they are the lesser of two evils.

Let's not forget they are always trying to make it harder to vote while there is no evidence of voter fraud. There is something suspicious about a political party that benefits (and only really wins) when fewer and fewer people vote. As for why black people shouldn't vote republican, let's put it this way: republicans aren't racists, but racists tend to be republican- the platform matches up well with those beliefs. Whether or not they should vote for democrats is up for debate, but either way every citizen needs to make their congress more accountable for the vote they have given them.

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Lateralus

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@bluejay4: Cherry pick. The last time there was a good republican in this country he was warning us about the military industrial complex. And what did we do, we ignored it. And his party went so far to the right they give defense blank checks to make tanks and jets no one ever uses. The only good republicans throughout our history have been progressive. They were against slavery, against corporate power in politics, and pro-environment. Now we have a party run by people that deny science, are afraid of gays, and immigrants, will do anything to protect the second amendment from even the most common sense regulation, believe in trickle down economics and union busting that wiped out the middle class. Democrats might be incompetent at getting things done but they are the lesser of two evils.

Let's not forget they are always trying to make it harder to vote while there is no evidence of voter fraud. There is something suspicious about a political party that benefits (and only really wins) when fewer and fewer people vote. As for why black people shouldn't vote republican, let's put it this way: republicans aren't racists, but racists tend to be republican- the platform matches up well with those beliefs. Whether or not they should vote for democrats is up for debate, but either way every citizen needs to make their congress more accountable for the vote they have given them.

Sadly Eisenhower did nothing to weaken the MIC....instead he helped to feed it....and only gave his warning about the MIC during his farewell address.....given what happened to Kennedy though, he was probably right not to challenge it during his tenure.

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Jnr6Lil

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@pooty said:

1) He said homosexuality is a learned behavior because straight men go to prison and can become gay

2) I agree with him that even though things are harder for blacks, it is nothing that they can't overcome and that the biggest problem in their progress is themselves.

3) Repubs and Dems are both rich. Blacks shouldn't be expected to be Dems just because it's the "black" party. Neither party gives a damn about blacks

4) He has no chance of winning

Agree with you on Number 3

But Number 2 is not true. That's just stereotyping blacks as lazy and inefficient, when the fact is there's systemic issues that need to be changed. You can't use a minority of blacks succeeding as an example for the entire race.

@batwatch said:

Not a big fan of Carson. He might be small government guy compared to the Democrats, but he's still too big government for my taste. We don't pull back from 18 trillion in debt by making small changes to national policy. He also has blundered his way through tough interviews in a Palin-esque fashion.

He seems like a nice guy, and I might vote for him if he is the GOP candidate, but he's far from my first choice.

@frozen said:

@ericmbacon: How does he hate other black people? He may be ignorant, but it is perhaps even more ignorant to assume that there should not be black Republicans, especially considering some black Democrats shill for votes and play the race card.

(applauds)

Not to mention that it was the Republicans who freed the slaves, the Republicans that passed the civil rights bill over the objections of racist Democrats and the Republicans who believe minorities are smart enough to succeed without special government assistance. The Democrats are the ones who bring up race constantly as if the color of your skin determined the amount you can succeed in life.

It does.

How is getting rid of affirmative action & welfare going to benefit the black community?

Community is already 30% in poverty. Let's get rid of what's allowing them to survive.

Get rid of affirmative action so now that every admissions officer who would prefers whites would now take them instead of blacks.

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pooty

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@jnr6lil: But Number 2 is not true. That's just stereotyping blacks as lazy and inefficient, when the fact is there's systemic issues that need to be changed. You can't use a minority of blacks succeeding as an example for the entire race.

I'm not saying they are lazy and inefficient. I'm saying they are complacent and satisfied. Things are just good enough that they'll protest here and there.... but then it's back to normal. If blacks want things to change then they have to be willing to sacrifice their time, energy, money, safety etc to make a change. It's obvious that the system isn't going to change. The system has no reason to change. And blacks shouldn't expect "The Man" to care. "The Man" has proven they don't care about minorities. Blacks need to force a change. Don't just protest at night after work. Take a week off of work!! Don't boycott specific businesses. Don't buy anything at all. Blacks have to have the mentality that they are still slaves or Jim Crow still exist. Current blacks aren't willing to sacrifice their comfort to make a real change. If nothing changes, then nothing changes.

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Jnr6Lil

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@pooty said:

@jnr6lil: But Number 2 is not true. That's just stereotyping blacks as lazy and inefficient, when the fact is there's systemic issues that need to be changed. You can't use a minority of blacks succeeding as an example for the entire race.

I'm not saying they are lazy and inefficient. I'm saying they are complacent and satisfied. Things are just good enough that they'll protest here and there.... but then it's back to normal. If blacks want things to change then they have to be willing to sacrifice their time, energy, money, safety etc to make a change. It's obvious that the system isn't going to change. The system has no reason to change. And blacks shouldn't expect "The Man" to care. "The Man" has proven they don't care about minorities. Blacks need to force a change. Don't just protest at night after work. Take a week off of work!! Don't boycott specific businesses. Don't buy anything at all. Blacks have to have the mentality that they are still slaves or Jim Crow still exist. Current blacks aren't willing to sacrifice their comfort to make a real change. If nothing changes, then nothing changes.

Out of all your posts this is the one I agree with the most.

But that's for two reasons though:

So many blacks in America have felt the oppression to the point they just have given up and are focused only on survival. (The inner-city black is a prime example of this)

Or you have the upper class blacks who are complacent with their nice middle class job with their white boss, car, and house to aim for something more.

Part of the reason is there's not much overt racism anymore. Back in the day when someone was calling you coon to your face, you're more emotional, and therefore more likely to protest against racism.

Blacks aren't getting educated either. This is the Internet Age, you can google systemic racism and get decades worth of knowledge in just a few articles. No excuse anymore for not knowing the truth.

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Xrated48

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I use to like him but now I don't so I won't be voting for him

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dshipp17

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@nishi99 said:

Let's see.

He's against Gay Rights.

Doesn't believe in Climate Change.

Not a big fan of background checks for gun purchases.

Against food stamps for the poor.

Pro War in most cases.

He's a fundamentalist christian, so he's anti science in general.

Against war crimes law.

Yep, just another republican puppet.

How does being a fundamentalist Christian make him anti-science? That's a completely baseless claim demonstrating a lot of ignorance of the Christian community.

@jnr6lil said:
@pooty said:

1) He said homosexuality is a learned behavior because straight men go to prison and can become gay

2) I agree with him that even though things are harder for blacks, it is nothing that they can't overcome and that the biggest problem in their progress is themselves.

3) Repubs and Dems are both rich. Blacks shouldn't be expected to be Dems just because it's the "black" party. Neither party gives a damn about blacks

4) He has no chance of winning

Agree with you on Number 3

But Number 2 is not true. That's just stereotyping blacks as lazy and inefficient, when the fact is there's systemic issues that need to be changed. You can't use a minority of blacks succeeding as an example for the entire race.

@batwatch said:

Not a big fan of Carson. He might be small government guy compared to the Democrats, but he's still too big government for my taste. We don't pull back from 18 trillion in debt by making small changes to national policy. He also has blundered his way through tough interviews in a Palin-esque fashion.

He seems like a nice guy, and I might vote for him if he is the GOP candidate, but he's far from my first choice.

@frozen said:

@ericmbacon: How does he hate other black people? He may be ignorant, but it is perhaps even more ignorant to assume that there should not be black Republicans, especially considering some black Democrats shill for votes and play the race card.

(applauds)

Not to mention that it was the Republicans who freed the slaves, the Republicans that passed the civil rights bill over the objections of racist Democrats and the Republicans who believe minorities are smart enough to succeed without special government assistance. The Democrats are the ones who bring up race constantly as if the color of your skin determined the amount you can succeed in life.

It does.

How is getting rid of affirmative action & welfare going to benefit the black community?

Community is already 30% in poverty. Let's get rid of what's allowing them to survive.

Get rid of affirmative action so now that every admissions officer who would prefers whites would now take them instead of blacks.

I agree; how would taking away the lifelines for African Americans going to help? But, check out his mindset: last night on Fox News, Ben Carson said African Americans were better off in the Jim Crow era, when he said the 1960s were the most damaging to African Americans. But, this is the Republican mindset, they make veiled suggestions of the sort all the time, as the whole party suggests that a start is to get rid of things like food stamps; they've already gotten rid of welfare legislatively and the courts have done away with affirmative action; affirmative action never had a legislative basis for its existence.

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nishi99

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@dshipp17: Fundamentalist Christians are different from most Christians, they believe the Earth is 6000 years old.

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Panthers8901

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nishi99

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@panthers8901: Sadly it's true, read up on Young Earth Creationism if you want to know more.

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dshipp17

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#46  Edited By dshipp17

@nishi99 said:

@dshipp17: Fundamentalist Christians are different from most Christians, they believe the Earth is 6000 years old.

So, that doesn't make them anti-science; have you considered the possibility that they have scientific evidence to support their belief? No one knows to any degree of accuracy how old the Earth is. What, did you think they just have the Bible supporting their belief? What reason do you have to be completely certain that the Earth is older than 6000 years, well, the better question, significantly older than 6000 years in the geologic and cosmic sense of a time difference? I grant you that the Earth is probably older than 6000 years, because the Christians that think they are certain that the Earth is 6000 years old hasn't even considered that that number is an interpretation error with someone's attempt to use the Bible to try to date the Earth; there is insufficient material in the Bible to date the Earth. But, by your definition, you're in essence implying that disagreeing with the scientific consensus makes you anti-science; can you figure out how wrong that way of thinking could lead someone? If not, than a person may not be as pro-science as they believe; you're essentially placing a faith that you should have in God with a scientific consensus about something as vague and yet unknowable as how old the Earth and Universe may be, and this considering how loaded with assumption and speculation leads to such scientific guessing; you probably didn't know that scientists guess a lot, did you?

Fox News also aired a story concerning how a militant atheist was flunking students for not accepting his opinion as fact about the Christian faith on the same night that Ben Carson had appeared on the show; it would probably be mind blowing for most parents concerning how extensive and widespread such practices maybe in school and explains the reason that the young in the United States seem to be trending away from Christianity, while it's growing in other places.

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@pooty said:

1) He said homosexuality is a learned behavior because straight men go to prison and can become gay

2) I agree with him that even though things are harder for blacks, it is nothing that they can't overcome and that the biggest problem in their progress is themselves.

3) Repubs and Dems are both rich. Blacks shouldn't be expected to be Dems just because it's the "black" party. Neither party gives a damn about blacks

4) He has no chance of winning

Truth spoken by pooty!

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Yeah, he should stick with his practice. He is one of those black candidates/pundits that Fox Newsers like because he hates other black people.

"I'm not a scientist, but, uh, so that gives me the right to make unscientific claims."

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@nishi99 said:

@dshipp17: Fundamentalist Christians are different from most Christians, they believe the Earth is 6000 years old.

The bible doesn't say the earth is 6000 years old.

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#50  Edited By BatWatch

@jnr6lil:

"It does."

That's true. American bigotry against black people puts a glass ceiling somewhere above the Presidency and billionaire level wealth. Why have there never been any black American trillionaires? Why isn't Barack Obama President of the World? It must be racism!

How is getting rid of affirmative action & welfare going to benefit the black community?

Programs that award something for nothing encourage the continuance of nothing. Why would anybody get a starting wage job when they can make as much while staying at home? Why strive to do your best in education when you know you have an unfair advantage?

"Community is already 30% in poverty. Let's get rid of what's allowing them to survive."

Let's get rid of a system that awards a lack of accomplishment regardless of race.

"Get rid of affirmative action so now that every admissions officer who would prefers whites would now take them instead of blacks."

You are suggesting that the solution to potential racism is mandatory racism in the form of affirmative action.

I believe racism is bad in all forms. End of story. No exceptions.