@cuddlebear: Actually no. I just know somewhere it says a man shouldn't be with a man. I'm not sure if it says it for women too. But it does seem a bit odd for it to be wrong for men and not for women.
I don't know the Bible very well to be honest. So ya, I really don't know where it might say that.
That isn't the only thing odd you will find in The Bible... wait til you get to the part where Jesus starts acting like a wizard by sending exorcised demons into pigs who then run madly into the sea.
Yeah man, This is not a religion/Bible bashing/discussion thread. This is for arguements versus Homosexualness. no need for what territory you are heading into.
You tell him Allstar!
sounds like a weaselly little appeal to the Mods... As i throw you to the lions i ask "WHERE IS YOUR MOD NOW?"
@sc This thread, while not "that" bad at the moment, is going down rather quickly. And CuddleBear is getting rather personal.
Throwing people to the lions was meant in jest... the weaselly little appeal thing could not be MORE sincere. Is this really how people want to win? Chuck Noll is spinning in his grave.
@sheenlantern: that was said to a certain group of people for a very specific reason. Since we are not those people, and that reason no longer applies, neither does that rule. However the rule about gay marriage was said openly, and for a reason that still applies if you choose to listen. @jaken7: There is no bible passage that says that's the reason. However, God told them because God knew. He didn't explain why in the bible because the people would not have understood. But it is something we know today, that during that time period it was dangerous to eat. That's why they were told not to. You can do some research online if you don't believe me. It would be fair for you to say that since this fact wasn't specified in the Bible that there's no way to know if that's the reason They were instructed to not eat shellfish, but that's the way with most stuff in the bible. We have to use context and examples from the time period to figure it out. This is one of those times, and there is a valid reason for then to not eat it during that time.
It is clear both of you support gay marriage and that's fine. I am not trying to convince you otherwise or change your mind. Not at all. I'm just trying to explain that there's a reason for all of the things that sound silly from the Bible and there is context behind all of them. So its not a good argument to try to bring up these "silly" rules and stuff in your argument for gay marriage, because they aren't silly at all and do make sense. That's all I'm trying to do.
@biteme_fanboy: So you're saying you've never seen any same-sex animals banging in a zoo? C'mon the whole "it's not natural" argument doesn't work. Animals do this sh** all the time.
Lol. The animals do it all the time argument fails to convince me of anything.
You're the one that mentioned animals.
Also, survival of the species isn't really that big of a deal right now. The human population could certainly be trimmed down quite a bit. So what's "natural" isn't for the best at this moment.
@jayc1324: It's my understanding that there actually was no context. The passage I read was basically just listing off things that were abominations (meaning abnormal back then) and it mentioned homosexuality, eating shellfish, wearing linen and wool at the same time (I believe those were the two materials. Linen might have been something else), etc. There was also something about killing anyone who works on sabbath or something like that. I don't know. Point is, you'll have to post the passage where it points out that you shouldn't eat shellfish because it has toxins that are harmful to the human body. That sounds like something we'd learn through modern medicine, not something that some desert folk from 2,000 years ago would've said.
Believe this if you may, but God talks to his people. He gave them knowledge far beyond their years.
@jayc1324: Well, by all means. Use your vast knowledge of chemistry and biology and explain to me why these same forms of shellfish aren't poisonous now as opposed to back then.
I still haven't heard any justification for why it addresses all shellfish or any acknowledgement of the beard thing.
@jayc1324: It's my understanding that there actually was no context. The passage I read was basically just listing off things that were abominations (meaning abnormal back then) and it mentioned homosexuality, eating shellfish, wearing linen and wool at the same time (I believe those were the two materials. Linen might have been something else), etc. There was also something about killing anyone who works on sabbath or something like that. I don't know. Point is, you'll have to post the passage where it points out that you shouldn't eat shellfish because it has toxins that are harmful to the human body. That sounds like something we'd learn through modern medicine, not something that some desert folk from 2,000 years ago would've said.
Believe this if you may, but God talks to his people. He gave them knowledge far beyond their years.
@biteme_fanboy: So you're saying you've never seen any same-sex animals banging in a zoo? C'mon the whole "it's not natural" argument doesn't work. Animals do this sh** all the time.
Lol. The animals do it all the time argument fails to convince me of anything.
You're the one that mentioned animals.
Also, survival of the species isn't really that big of a deal right now. The human population could certainly be trimmed down quite a bit. So what's "natural" isn't for the best at this moment.
Dude, your not even beginning to understand the point I am trying to make.
Nowhere in any of my posts did I say 'it's not natural, so we shouldn't do it, we need to do what we're meant to do and only have heterosexual sex and reproduce to keep our species alive'.. No where, man. I'm just stating what our bodies are designed for and WHY it's designed that way. I'm not at all speaking out against homosexual behavior.
That's what's wrong with some people who share different views than others, they begin to jump the gun and start making assumptions and accusing people of things that don't even have anything to do with the persons point.
Look, i'm really not trying to get into a religious debate here. Look at this objectively. We, in general, from an objective viewpoint, have no factual proof of your religion, therefore, it is not valid.
@sheenlantern: I don't have any vast knowledge in those areas nor do I need any for this. There are actually still shellfish poisonings today.
And they were told not to shave because they were supposed to look differnt from other nations since they are gods people, and not imitate traditions of other religions. They did not want to look the same and needed to stand apart. I don't expect to have to explain everything that sounds silly to you in the bible but if you have more bring it on :p
Anyway, like I said I don't feel like getting into a huge debate, I just wanted to show you that there is context and reason for every "silly" thing in the bible.
@jayc1324: So just more baseless speculation and misinterpretations made through the use of knowledge we have today? Sounds about right. I guess anytime I ask for proof or specifics in regards to the bible, "God said so" is as valid a reply as I can hope for.
@jaken7: Its not baseless or a misinterpretation. Its a fact shellfish can be poisonous, and there are valid reasons for everything god said. Also, are you an atheist? its nonsensical for me to try to argue about the bible with an atheist.
I never wanted to talk about gay sed with you, I was just correcting something sheenlantern said.
@jayc1324: What about the silly rule regarding wearing X material and Y material at the same time (I think it was linen and wool, but I'm not positive)? I'm interested in the context for that.
@sheenlantern: I don't have any vast knowledge in those areas nor do I need any for this. There are actually still shellfish poisonings today.
Yes, but they are extremely rare, they accumulate poison from the microscopic organisms like algae that they eat. It takes a lot of poisonous algae to kill a human. Again, this isn't the case for all or even most forms of shellfish, specifically not those found near Israel. I've also read into this and there's no mention of this poison thing in Leviticus or Deuteronomy.
And they were told not to shave because they were supposed to look differnt from other nations since they are gods people, and not imitate traditions of other religions.
O...kay? This doesn't change that it's ridiculous and that next to no one actually listens to it. Which, since you've apparently forgotten, was my original point.
@jayc1324: I'm agnostic. I'm accepting and open to all religions (been to church on numerous occasions actually). It doesn't mean I can't think critically about some of the more absurd aspects of them
I was more referencing the overall topic of this thread, as the religious stuff is a little off topic to say the least.
And come on people, let's stop with the nonsense already, religion is not a valid reason - because - there is not a shred of proof that any religion is anything more then a myth created by people who longed to understand how the cosmos worked and our origin.
Please give the OP what he ask for instead of appealing to ignorance.
Iv'e told you what I believe. There's no need for trying to pick a fight. I'm not saying not to tell me I'm wrong if you think I am. Let's just not make this a fight instead of an argument.
I don't really know what you mean by surrender. I believe homosexuality is wrong. The Bible says it is. But this doesn't have to be some all night fight.
@jaken7: Yes you're right. Linen and wool. Priests wore both of these materials in their clothing, so it was forbidden for ordinary people to wear it. Like how you can't go around dressed up as and pretending to be a cop if you're not really one.
@sheenlantern: No one listens to it because it wasn't for us. And no its not a ridiculous reason. God didn't want his people mixing with others. By as jaken7 said, this isn't a religion thread so we are off topic. I just hope you realize that there are valid reasons for everything given as a rule in the bible, and that most or them were said to a specific group of people, not all men.
I just had to say that I completely agree with what you have to say about the "silly" things in the Bible. It bothers me when people who disagree with the Bible try to bring up stuff that they know they don't understand. And you explained it perfectly.
@sheenlantern: No one listens to it because it wasn't for us.
Amazing. Good to know you had a Plan C just in case your entire argument happened to be bogus.
God didn't want his people mixing with others.
So they ignored God there, too.
I just hope you realize that there are valid reasons for everything given as a rule in the bible,
No there isn't. "I want you to look different from people halfway across the globe you've never even seen" is not a valid reason to not shave in my book. But hey, at least it's better than the justification for being nasty to gay people. (There isn't one)
@joshuadbr: I don't know why you even brought up your personal religious reasons for why homosexuality is wrong. Considering you are on a thread that is dedicated to finding VALID arguments against homosexuality.
People ignored god a lot of times in the Bible. There's entire books written on it..
I don't think you understood the reason. Gods people are special to god. They are different from the rest of the world because of their religion. He does not want them being corrupted by outward cultures. This doesn't only happen in the bible ya know. In the past, there were many countries who did not want to incorporate influences from outsiders into their own country. There are tons of examples of this. There's even some today.
There's no reason to be nasty to anyone. The Bible doesn't say be nasty to gay people.
Now OK, that's the last thing in saying about religion here, if you're just gonna refuse to accept the reasons then OK. I'll only respond in the religion thread if you want to continue.
I suppose I understand what you mean. So if you want to know the best valid argument I have for this then this is it - God has reasons for everything he says, he is perfect and always right, so since he says homosexuality is wrong then it is. And I think that's the best reason anyone can get to believe anything. We can't trust ourselves, because we could always be wrong. And without God there is no right or wrong.
@wolverine08: Nah bruh. Not really. Its really just you and sheenlantern who have a problem with it. I'm not even being one of those crazy religious people trying to condemn all gays. I'm just giving context to biblical references that he did not.
@jayc1324: So you've just...given up on defending the shellfish thing, eh? Good to hear.
People ignored god a lot of times in the Bible. There's entire books written on it..
Unfortunately not when it would involve giving up being a bigoted asshole.
I don't think you understood the reason. Gods people are special to god. They are different from the rest of the world because of their religion. He does not want them being corrupted by outward cultures.
Has he given up on that, then? How come there hasn't been any pestilence or great floods since god's people started buying Gillette?
There's no reason to be nasty to anyone. The Bible doesn't say be nasty to gay people.
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads"
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