#1 Posted by WillPayton (8409 posts) - - Show Bio

At the risk of starting a contentious thread... here goes.

The data from a meta-analysis shows that there's a correlation between intelligence and lack of religious belief. In other words, the answer to the thread title is: generally yes.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/08/new-meta-analysis-checks-the-correlation-between-intelligence-and-faith/

The relationship between countries' belief in a god and national average IQ.

Please read the attached article for full text... not going to copy it here because it's too long. But, it explains what data they used and how they interpreted it.

My take is that this makes perfect sense. More intelligent people are better at rational thought and (IMO) are more curious about explanations for phenomena and claims of such. Religion is generally the opposite of rational thought... certainly the supernatural is... and mostly works to shut down questioning and independent thought.

#2 Posted by Saren (24303 posts) - - Show Bio

This will end well.

Moderator
#3 Edited by The Stegman (20724 posts) - - Show Bio

No, I've met some very stupid, ignorant atheists. However, I believe some who use empirical facts and data instead of blindly following a faith indeed are more rational, cause let's face it, evolution has pretty much been proven fact, and denying that for Creationism is pretty...bad.

#4 Edited by russellmania77 (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

um no, i meet some drug addicts that are athiest... dont seem very intelligent to me bro

#5 Posted by Wolverine08 (26406 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol, no.

Online
#6 Edited by WillPayton (8409 posts) - - Show Bio

um no, i meet some drug addicts that are athiest... dont seem very intelligent to me bro

Well, lets not conflate two different issues.

In any case, the article/data is a statistical analysis, not a claim that all atheists are smarter than all religious people.

#7 Posted by russellmania77 (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

um no, i meet some drug addicts that are athiest... dont seem very intelligent to me bro

Well, lets not conflate two different issues.

In any case, the article/data is a statistical analysis, not a claim that all atheists are smarter than all religious people.

yes but is it possible that the analysis themselves are athiests?

#8 Edited by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't make a thread title a question if you're going to answer it in the OP.

It makes the whole thread smell of bait.

Delicious, delightful bait.

#9 Posted by judasnixon (5436 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wants popcorn? I don't give this thread 24 hours.........

#10 Edited by Juiceboks (5929 posts) - - Show Bio

Don't we have enough of these types of threads already?

#11 Posted by Dernman (13985 posts) - - Show Bio

sigh

#12 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

So?

#13 Posted by batmannflash (6109 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay...

#14 Posted by M3th (1771 posts) - - Show Bio

As I've said before and I will say again. I never want to be called, labeled, or titled an atheist. For in my personal experience some that I have meet have shown to be pompously snobbish people who have a superiority complex and enjoy belittling others.

I want to add that not all are like this. There are a great deal that aren't this way. Needless to say, super religious people aren't any better.

On Topic: I totally agree with Stegg (yeah thats your nickname for now.)

#15 Posted by WillPayton (8409 posts) - - Show Bio

@willpayton said:

In any case, the article/data is a statistical analysis, not a claim that all atheists are smarter than all religious people.

yes but is it possible that the analysis themselves are athiests?

It's possible, but irrelevant. The data speaks for itself. That's the nice thing about science vis-a-vis religion. In science, the truth of claims is in no way dependent on who's making them.

Don't make a thread title a question if you're going to answer it in the OP.

It's a rhetorical question.

#16 Posted by The Stegman (20724 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th said:

As I've said before and I will say again. I never want to be called, labeled, or titled an atheist. For in my personal experience some that I have meet have shown to be pompously snobbish people who have a superiority complex and enjoy belittling others.

I want to add that not all are like this. There are a great deal that aren't this way. Needless to say, super religious people aren't any better.

On Topic: I totally agree with Stegg (yeah thats your nickname for now.)

Wait..am I Stegg??

#17 Edited by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks said:

I'm just gonna say that not everyone who doesn't succumb to the idea of a Christian God, or Allah, or Buddha, is a refined genius. And not everyone that follows a certain religious faith, whatever that may be, is not an ignorant puppet.

@the_stegman said:

No, I've met some very stupid, ignorant atheists. However, I believe some who use empirical facts and data instead of blindly following a faith indeed are more rational, cause let's face it, evolution has pretty much been proven fact, and denying that for Creationism is pretty...bad.

@wolverine08 said:

Lol, no.

these.

I've met some VERY ignorant religious people,and I've met and payed attention to equally ignorant atheists....I mean,seriously...the arguments I get from some of them is just....just....

Sadly,soon will come the simple-minded people that generalize for the sake of their own beliefs. An example of what I mean would be "all atheists lead bad lives" or "all religious people blindly believe (insert religion)" just as some petty excuse as to why they support their views.

Anyway,@willpayton what do you mean with this part?:

My take is that this makes perfect sense. More intelligent people are better at rational thought and (IMO) are more curious about explanations for phenomena and claims of such. Religion is generally the opposite of rational thought... certainly the supernatural is... and mostly works to shut down questioning and independent thought.

#18 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@m3th said:

As I've said before and I will say again. I never want to be called, labeled, or titled an atheist. For in my personal experience some that I have meet have shown to be pompously snobbish people who have a superiority complex and enjoy belittling others.

I want to add that not all are like this. There are a great deal that aren't this way. Needless to say, super religious people aren't any better.

On Topic: I totally agree with Stegg (yeah thats your nickname for now.)

Wait..am I Stegg??

lol yup.

#19 Posted by russellmania77 (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

@willpayton said:

In any case, the article/data is a statistical analysis, not a claim that all atheists are smarter than all religious people.

yes but is it possible that the analysis themselves are athiests?

It's possible, but irrelevant. The data speaks for itself. That's the nice thing about science vis-a-vis religion. In science, the truth of claims is in no way dependent on who's making them.

unless you are trying to cheat maybe

#20 Posted by SC (11937 posts) - - Show Bio

In a general sense I could buy that, but what's going to happen here is the same thing that happened a few months where someone posted a link that talked about intelligence and racism, the link was a study that concluded less intelligent people were more likely to be racist which triggered a blind spot in posters who seemed to think that the study concluded that no intelligent person has ever been a racist which resulted in many posters giving examples of people who are traditionally considered intelligent and racist and people of average or lower intellect who weren't racist. Which was just a bit funny to observe.

What's probably going to happen here and has already happened is that people are going to give examples of unintelligent atheists and or intelligent theists which just yeah. That or they are going to see this as arrogant atheists trying to prove their superiority over religious people routine. I think we need more legitimately intelligent religious people to be spotlighted - more Bob Greaves, less Kent Hovind. I really enjoy listening to Greaves talk about religion, he seems pretty intelligent, more so than an outspoken atheist like say Richard Carrier, but then again Greaves is the kind of Christian that seems to annoy other people who share his faith.

Moderator
#21 Edited by PeppeyHare (4310 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope. I'm an atheist and I don't consider myself smarter or a superior person to those who aren't. Just a different set of beliefs.

#22 Edited by sync1 (2154 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by The Stegman (20724 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman said:

@m3th said:

As I've said before and I will say again. I never want to be called, labeled, or titled an atheist. For in my personal experience some that I have meet have shown to be pompously snobbish people who have a superiority complex and enjoy belittling others.

I want to add that not all are like this. There are a great deal that aren't this way. Needless to say, super religious people aren't any better.

On Topic: I totally agree with Stegg (yeah thats your nickname for now.)

Wait..am I Stegg??

lol yup.

I've been called worse heh.

#24 Edited by WillPayton (8409 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

@willpayton said:

@russellmania77 said:

@willpayton said:

In any case, the article/data is a statistical analysis, not a claim that all atheists are smarter than all religious people.

yes but is it possible that the analysis themselves are athiests?

It's possible, but irrelevant. The data speaks for itself. That's the nice thing about science vis-a-vis religion. In science, the truth of claims is in no way dependent on who's making them.

unless you are trying to cheat maybe

Bias is always a possibility... whether intentional or not. That's why science relies on peer-review and duplication of experimental data. (i.e. the Scientific Method) You dont have to take anyone's word for anything, or rely on their authority or "expertise". There's no "Pope of Science" that hands down commandments or talks to some omnipotent source of knowledge. That's why I said... the beliefs or lack of beliefs of the people doing this study are irrelevant. Others will analyze this data and conduct more studies. It's why science is a better way to find out about the universe and truth than "the guy in the big hat told me so".

#25 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

This will end well.

#26 Edited by sync1 (2154 posts) - - Show Bio

I would assume scientifically and logically speaking; yes.

Generally, Christians do not believe in science/evolution. Therefore, Atheists are generally more intelligent.

I was born and raised Christian and my family is Christian, but i grew to believe in science. I am perfectly fine with what others believe in, so please don't rage at me.

But then again there are those Atheists who just call themselves Atheist because they don't believe in a god. Those are the unintelligent ones.

#27 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

@the_stegman said:

@m3th said:

As I've said before and I will say again. I never want to be called, labeled, or titled an atheist. For in my personal experience some that I have meet have shown to be pompously snobbish people who have a superiority complex and enjoy belittling others.

I want to add that not all are like this. There are a great deal that aren't this way. Needless to say, super religious people aren't any better.

On Topic: I totally agree with Stegg (yeah thats your nickname for now.)

Wait..am I Stegg??

lol yup.

I've been called worse heh.

......can I call you Stegg? 0_0

#28 Edited by OverLordArgeist (5245 posts) - - Show Bio

No, but they are more prudent.

#29 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

I would assume scientifically and logically speaking; yes.

Generally, Christians do not believe in science/logic. Therefore, Atheists are generally more intelligent.

I was born and raised Christian and my family is Christian, but i grew to believe in science. I am perfectly fine with what others believe in, so please don't rage at me.

Christians....generally don't believe in logic? or Science?

#31 Posted by russellmania77 (13568 posts) - - Show Bio

@russellmania77 said:

@willpayton said:

@russellmania77 said:

@willpayton said:

In any case, the article/data is a statistical analysis, not a claim that all atheists are smarter than all religious people.

yes but is it possible that the analysis themselves are athiests?

It's possible, but irrelevant. The data speaks for itself. That's the nice thing about science vis-a-vis religion. In science, the truth of claims is in no way dependent on who's making them.

unless you are trying to cheat maybe

Bias is always a possibility... whether intentional or not. That's why science relies on peer-review and duplication of experimental data. (i.e. the Scientific Method) You dont have to take anyone's word for anything, or rely on their authority or "expertise". There's no "Pope of Science" that hands down commandments or talks to some omnipotent source of knowledge. That's why I said... the beliefs or lack of beliefs of the people doing this study are irrelevant. Others will analyze this data and conduct more studies. It's why science is a better way to find out about the universe and truth than "the guy in the big hat told me so".

im sorry but thats just too much to read for me

#32 Posted by ssejllenrad (12778 posts) - - Show Bio

Bollocks! That is pretty bigoted and generalist. You just build walls of division! Instead of building unity, you alienate people who are not believing the same as you!

Now, Asians.. Asians are more intelligent. Take that loser inferior ethnicity! Nyahahahahahaha!

#33 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (7785 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is sooo going places

#34 Posted by TifaLockhart (13828 posts) - - Show Bio

Like hell we are. Wait, I'm supposed to be good at math? Crap.

#35 Posted by Glitch_Spawn (17123 posts) - - Show Bio

I've met seemingly intelligent religious types from all backgrounds but they all share one trait. They all want to spread some kind of fantastical message of nonsense. This one bit of garbage cannot redeem itself in the face of facts and science. People cannot be resurrected. Souls don't rise from the pits of volcanoes and there is no Caucasian man in the sky stroking hes long Scandinavian beard trying to decide your fate. It's bogus. It's a false rap. It's purely insane.

I'm a victim of Catechism.

#36 Posted by OverLordArgeist (5245 posts) - - Show Bio

Bollocks! That is pretty bigoted and generalist. You just build walls of division! Instead of building unity, you alienate people who are not believing the same as you!

Now, Asians.. Asians are more intelligent. Take that loser inferior ethnicity! Nyahahahahahaha!

Agree, Double Nyahahahahahahahaha!

#37 Posted by WillPayton (8409 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope. I'm an atheist and I don't consider myself smarter or a superior person to those who aren't. Just a different set of beliefs.

Not the point of the article.

@sc said:

What's probably going to happen here and has already happened is that people are going to give examples of unintelligent atheists and or intelligent theists...

No kidding.

#38 Posted by sync1 (2154 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

I would assume scientifically and logically speaking; yes.

Generally, Christians do not believe in science/logic. Therefore, Atheists are generally more intelligent.

I was born and raised Christian and my family is Christian, but i grew to believe in science. I am perfectly fine with what others believe in, so please don't rage at me.

Christians....generally don't believe in logic? or Science?

Edited it to scientifically/evolution.

Yes, i realized how ignorant my comment sounded. xD

#39 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@cameron83 said:

@sync1 said:

I would assume scientifically and logically speaking; yes.

Generally, Christians do not believe in science/logic. Therefore, Atheists are generally more intelligent.

I was born and raised Christian and my family is Christian, but i grew to believe in science. I am perfectly fine with what others believe in, so please don't rage at me.

Christians....generally don't believe in logic? or Science?

Edited it to scientifically/evolution.

Yes, i realized how ignorant my comment sounded. xD

lol okay :)

I just wanted to know. I hope I didn't sound as if I was...challenging you.

#40 Posted by consolemaster001 (4473 posts) - - Show Bio

:)

#41 Posted by sync1 (2154 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@cameron83 said:

Christians....generally don't believe in logic? or Science?

Edited it to scientifically/evolution.

Yes, i realized how ignorant my comment sounded. xD

lol okay :)

I just wanted to know. I hope I didn't sound as if I was...challenging you.

Yeah, based off of MY personal experience (key-word personal), Christians totally do not believe in science and evolution. So scientifically speaking, Atheists (the ones who actually believe in it, not people who just call themselves Atheists because they don't believe in god), would be the more informed ones.

Now that's just scientifically.

#42 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@cameron83 said:

@sync1 said:

@cameron83 said:

Christians....generally don't believe in logic? or Science?

Edited it to scientifically/evolution.

Yes, i realized how ignorant my comment sounded. xD

lol okay :)

I just wanted to know. I hope I didn't sound as if I was...challenging you.

Yeah, based off of MY personal experience (key-word personal), Christians totally do not believe in science and evolution. So scientifically speaking, Atheists (the ones who actually believe in it, not people who just call themselves Atheists because they don't believe in god), would be the more informed ones.

Now that's just scientifically.

HOW DARETH THOU SIRRRR!!!!!

lol jk. :)

#43 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Posted by WillPayton (8409 posts) - - Show Bio

@sync1 said:

@cameron83 said:

@sync1 said:

@cameron83 said:

Christians....generally don't believe in logic? or Science?

Edited it to scientifically/evolution.

Yes, i realized how ignorant my comment sounded. xD

lol okay :)

I just wanted to know. I hope I didn't sound as if I was...challenging you.

Yeah, based off of MY personal experience (key-word personal), Christians totally do not believe in science and evolution. So scientifically speaking, Atheists (the ones who actually believe in it, not people who just call themselves Atheists because they don't believe in god), would be the more informed ones.

Now that's just scientifically.

Even if we're talking about religion, I remember a study that showed that atheists/agnostics know more about religion than religious people do.

The other thing is that while many religious people claim to believe in evolution (i.e. the Catholic Church), they actually dont. Evolution has nothing to do with a God. Any version of evolution that relies on a supernatural force to "guide" it is nonsense.

#45 Posted by kriminal (564 posts) - - Show Bio

more intelligent people are atheist because when you educate yourself religion has many flaws. but saying you are one doesn't make you smart. I am one but that's cuz I think life sucks.

#46 Posted by TJSH96 (494 posts) - - Show Bio

That data is measuring the IQ of a person which doesn't measure all the intelligences that human-beings have. IQ measures analytical skills and problem solving, but there is a lot more to human-intelligence than just that like intuition, creativity, memory and others.

So no, that data is not an accurate way of comparing the intelligence of atheists and theists and even if you look at that data, theists are very close to atheists in terms of IQ although that data MIGHT not be accurate even at what it's measuring.

#47 Posted by consolemaster001 (4473 posts) - - Show Bio

Weren't your arms cut off in Saudi Arabia?

Naw, just my hands. I can type with my nose, toes and "other" body parts.

#48 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83 said:

Weren't your arms cut off in Saudi Arabia?

Naw, just my hands. I can type with my nose, toes and "other" body parts.

....then why is your typing better than mine :,(

#49 Edited by dondave (26572 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by cameron83 (6416 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna go to sleep now...and when I wake up and come back on later...this thread might have like 3 pages at least and at page 2 it will have a disagreement which sprouts into an argument in which people jump in and generalize and fight ignorance with ignorance with irony with contradictions.....called it.

lol jk