Anyone here know a thing or two about African History?

Then again,we can't really point fingers as there are people of every race who do this...

Not disagreeing with you,but just saying....anyway,how do you know all of this?

I had a few thoughts about the quotes in the OP.

- for me the usage of the term "mongrels" is extremely troubling...it reminds me of Nazi racist theories. This is also true of his idea of what he calls "fakes" as being folks not of a "true and pure genetic stock"

- if by "Central Asian Turks" he is saying "Indo-Europeans" then there may be some validity to his argument but the dissemination of the Indo-Europeans is so vast one would be hard pressed to find any culture which wasn't influenced by it on some level.

- that brings me to the thought that race (as genetics) isn't precisely the same as race (as cultural development)

- his thesis that everyone is descended genetically from "Central Asian Turks" is a tremendous oversimplification IMO. It ignores the dynamic process of migration as well as the contributions that diverse populations make to culture. Such meetings always result in an organic "give-and-take" between cultures despite what genetic markers flow through their veins. It would take an almost miraculous isolation and vacuum-like existence for a culture to not be influence by another upon an encounter.

- I feel as though not enough credit is being given to the various Semitic cultures within the region as well. Much of the migration at issue was pre-historic which leaves very little in the way of empirical evidence upon which to make claims for "who was here first". And even if such a claim were to be verifiable I personally don't think it would matter much in the grand scheme of things.

____________________________________

Some other thoughts on the conversations within this thread.

Slavery may need to be defined for there to be constructive dialogue. It is my opinion that slavery exists today in various parts of the world but thankfully it remains somewhat small time and underground. Perhaps at issue is a system of slavery underlined by a political and cultural acceptance as can be seen in Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome and Ancient and Medieval Mesopotamia as well as more modern permutations like the American South and within European colonies.

@cameron83: I do my research :)

You all are making it really hard to pick a best answer!!!!

^.^

Maybe I'll just delete the option.

I agree,btw.

Worlds oldest DNA

:D

@edamame: 1. Yes that is true.

2. In general

Its true. I myself am African, and although I only spent my first 3 years there, I studied a lot of African history from my parents and school, and what he says is factual. Is it appropriate to say t the way he did? No. Did he have to? But none the less, true. Why is this in Comicvine anyways?

@petey_is_spidey: It's on here to promote thought and intellectualism

You're racist and ignorant also.

"I don't mean to sound harsh"

But these people are "ignorant negroes"

Many times you look at African countries? Chances are you've never actually been to Africa or met an African, and instead are just basing it off what the media portrays Africa is.

Also that's an oxymoron. An Uncle Tom would never be an afrocentrist.

The blacks of Africa were great people. The Nubian Kingdom, The Kingdom of Kush. This isn't even the black in me speaking, but Africans had developed civilization before Europe was a great power.

They weren't duped? Europeans came to the continent and kidnapped Africans with their superior weaponry.

Calling Africans bamboons? Such racism.

Blacks helped with the slave trade, sure but there help was nothing. It would've still went on with or without it, if anything I still give faults to whites for bringing advanced technology into a less developed continent, who would naturally be attracted to those things.

And you can't even compare white slavery to Arab slavery? Arabs at least promoted their slaves to generals of their militia. Yes they were willing to entrust the lives of their own men in their servant. In America, the closet you got to that was working in trades, where the master would take most of the earnings.

But yes look at how they got hear. 300 years of oppression isn't just going to affect you physically but psychologically also.

Many times you look at African countries? Chances are you've never actually been to Africa or met an African, and instead are just basing it off what the media portrays Africa is.

Also that's an oxymoron. An Uncle Tom would never be an afrocentrist.

The blacks of Africa were great people. The Nubian Kingdom, The Kingdom of Kush. This isn't even the black in me speaking, but Africans had developed civilization before Europe was a great power.

They weren't duped? Europeans came to the continent and kidnapped Africans with their superior weaponry.

Calling Africans bamboons? Such racism.

Blacks helped with the slave trade, sure but there help was nothing. It would've still went on with or without it, if anything I still give faults to whites for bringing advanced technology into a less developed continent, who would naturally be attracted to those things.

And you can't even compare white slavery to Arab slavery? Arabs at least promoted their slaves to generals of their militia. Yes they were willing to entrust the lives of their own men in their servant. In America, the closet you got to that was working in trades, where the master would take most of the earnings.

But yes look at how they got hear. 300 years of oppression isn't just going to affect you physically but psychologically also.

@jointron33: I know what you mean. The mentality is something like; "Hey guys, let's blame all our problems on white people that we invited in and expect a pat on the head and a lollipop as compensation". I was disgusted when I found out that the slave trade was so successful because African states directly engaged in it (and not just as merchanidse). Bonny, Dahomey and a few others sold THEIR OWN PEOPLE! And then people tell me that it was all the fault of the Europeans (>__> Malcolm X). If someone had stopped thinking of how much gold and yams another human was worth, maybe the world would be a little different. Though it must be said that there were leaders who did their utmost to stop the enslavement of their people. It's sad that they didn't stand a chance against superior weapons and their own neighbours. Jaja of Opobo and Ranavalona III of Madagascar come to mind. So not all our ancestors were baboons and stupid. It's simply that the ones with any clout were greedy. It wasn't solely the fault of the Europeans or Arabs (I'd like to say they are NOT "Muslim Bastards"). My point is in Africa, most of the shit that's happened to us is our own damn fault. Gosh, I need a freaking time machine

@cameron83: Wow. I came in here mentally prepared with facts about the Biafran War and Katangese Secession amongst other things. I didn't think you'd want to know about ANCIENT Africa. Sources are sparse and a tad unreliable especially on kingdoms south of the Sahel. But I do know something of the Mossi Kingdom, Asante, Akan, Oyo Empire (FTW! My homeboys!), Ife, Benin, Kanem-Bornu, the Sokoto Caliphate and Fulani Jihads etc. I was just name dropping there to show how smart I think I am. But really, it's ironic because I was just reading up on this kind of history yesterday. Ask me anything on these (well, almost anything). Also, some traditional Yoruba religion though most people now know the South American variations

It's a shame that my country's history is dying out and that we have no records apart from old Arabic and English ones. Can you imagine, foreigners have a better history of us than we do. It's ridiculous to say the least. I plan on doing my part to rectify that when I'm older and am in fact, currently gathering information for that purpose. I'm Nigerian by the way

Most African history was passed down through oral traditions so that fella you quoted can't really be sure of what he's saying now can he? But there is some general merit to his words. However, the general consensus on Ancient Egyptians was that they were NOT black. They leaned more towards their Arab neighbors though I'd imagine they were a bit darker. The Kushite and Ethiopian Empires were certifiably black though. This guy's execution of these facts is what gives other people the general impression that we're loud, stupid and unable to express ourselves in a graceful and articulate manner as I have just done above (just messing. I'm not very graceful). It's not your fault for not knowing African history. Most people don't care to (which is a problem that likely needs addressing) and it's hard to study and teach anyway. Hell, AFRICAN schools don't teach much African history. The first half of my high school education was in Nigeria and though I studied history, most of what I know, I learned from hours of research by myself. Tell him another African (I assume he is) said he can "suck it!"

Sorry something happened to the server so my post got screwed up. I hope I'm not spamming anyone

@akindoodle: The fact you're calling your own kind "baboons" something which is essentially a racial slur, proves you're an Uncle Tom also, with narrow views on Malcolm X.

Part of this is right. The history of Africa(and the rest of the world) is pretty "whitewashed", and yes, most of the actual history is kept from the general populace. History is written by those in power, and when European whites took power, they controlled the flow of history, making it Eurocentric. And technically, all of Africa belongs to brownish to dark skinned people(actual white Europeans had little contact with Africa on their own until the 18th century. Most interaction that Europeans had with Africa was through Arabic Muslim traders). We are not taught about the impact of African history on the world. About the expansive black African Empires such as Mali, Songhuy, Ghana, the Sokoto Caliphate, etc. Or the advancement made by Africans in the realms of education, science, philosophy, and culture. The legendary libraries in Alexandria and Timbuktu, which became the cultural centers of the world during that time. So in a way, we are "mental slaves". Honestly, (in America) people don't value black people as much as they do any other race, and one of the major reasons is the lack of emphasis on the positive parts of African history. Most of the info we get is that whole "ignorant pagan savage" story ending in the "great white saviors" scenarios. Hell, even other black people don't value themselves that much. White people may not be actively trying to keep blacks ignorant of their history or their value, but one of the effects of a white Eurocentric centered societal system is that other races are kept ignorant and are less valued, and blacks generally tend to get the brunt of these effects because we have historically the lowest position in the social strata. Its sad really. But here's where he's wrong: Egypt has always been a mix of people of many different skin colors. Hieroglyphs show the Egyptian population as being of multiple skin tones. The Egyptian empire lorded over many different ethnicities. Like the Romans, they were a melting pot. Modern Egyptians, however, or not ancient Egyptians. Most modern Egyptians are descended from Arabic Muslim traders as well as North African Muslim Jihadis(Not meaning this as an offensive term, but as people who actually waged jihad in the area). The rulers of those nations he mentioned were NOT central Asian Turks. There were mixtures of ethnic groups in North Africa, so many of the rulers were lighter skinned, but in no way "white", since "white" generally refers to Northern or Eastern Europeans(Italians are not considered white by most educated in history) But all in all, to everyone, learn your ACTUALLY history. Look it up, and don't just listen to what they teach you in classes, because guess what, it is nowhere near the whole truth.

And if anyone doubts me or believe I'm just spouting off stuff, I have a Bachelor's degree in History with a focus in African history as well as a Bachelor's degree in African-American studies

This, sadly.

I agree.

But when you say "whites" do you mean back then or current......it may be a silly question,but still....

I agree,his wording is a bit racial and,at the very least,harsh.

Also,what were those 4 deleted messages?

Anybody know?

But can you guys all stop fighting,I mean seriously...although his wording is a bit harsh,and a bit...racist,I can completely see the point that jointron is making. I see many people here today that easily dump their excuses on "the white man". It's honestly petty. To be honest,much of the reason their life is in shambles has more to do with the decisions they make,not the past. However,this is not always the case. Sometimes some people (not just black people) have to live with consequences that do not belong to their own actions (and done by someone else,no specific race is my point). However,at the same time I see people who pull through far worse turn up more successful.....my thoughts are jumbled at the moment because it's not really so black/white. In general,I don't think we can even blame the actions of the past now on our current failures (when I say "our" I don't mean black people,I just mean the individual). That only goes for few people nowadays....you know what,I am rambling now and not even I can see my point in this...I am hoping someone else does.

However,I think I agree more with jnr6lil,and also with akindoodle on the things in the present. Most people that pull that card aren't even in their situation because of slavery and segregation,it's their own fault...and for some people,yes,I believe that it may (most likely) be the case. Maybe their ancestor (being a slave,most likely) was poor and such and that had a domino effect and such and such....you know what...I am not even sure,right now.

@jnr6lil can you help me express what I am trying to say?

So basically (back then),Europeans,in essence,erased history and it basically became a bit lost and that has an impact today because,in some cases,Blacks aren't really....valued as much due to having a very limited history....or something like that.

I just came off the road after being on it for like 6 hours,so bear with me..

@jnr6lil: It would be the same as saying some Caucasians are Nazis. I'm not insulting their ENTIRE race. I'm just calling some of them out. If you read my post in context you'd see that I was defending our race. Also, Malcolm X did some GREAT things for Civil Rights but it's not a bad thing for me to disagree on some of his views. I am not however an Uncle Tom and I'll say I'm not as bad as the fellow we were both arguing with

.....I feel so damn ignorant. :(

Lol at people using that ghettorized definition for Uncle Tom. Uncle Tom was an honorable character who tried to better himself. That's just like a confused negro, taking something positive (uncle Tom), and making it negative, whereas the n word is now a term of endearment.

The blacks of Africa who sold their own for a proverbial 40 oz., bucket of chicken, and pack of newports of their day, they remind me very of the true race traitors and sell outs of today. These are ppl such as Messy Jackson, Al charliton, Eddie schlong, Creflo I'll steal your last Dollar, t.d. Fakes, and Louis farracoon, whose coonery and rhetoric, namely those perverting Jesus' word, are far more racist and detrimental to blacks than Ted Nugent, George Zimmerman, or Paula Deen using the n word.

Much like you have the rappers and ball players, who first thing they do when leave the ghetto, is not fall in love with a good wholesome woman of any color, but instead start balling a bunch of hoodrat whores or even worse some trailer trash white woman, none of whom they love or care for, you have Africans and African countries who desert their own as soon they can. I know that not all African countries are mud huts and spear chucking, at the same time, much of the violence and coonish ways, namely beating ppl who have aids in the middle of the street and then setting them on fire, still goes on in the "modern " African countries. But back to the deserting thing. Why don't the well off African countries fix things such as other countries pillaging their resources and then throwing them away like a cheap ass ho? Why aren't negroes their fixing problems such as corrupt governments? The Arabs revolted, why can't blacks? Why don't they deal with issues such as kony and other warlords? Why is it that white folks gotta come to the rescue? Are you seriously content with being another race 's pet project, or worse, his b1t€h? And where are all of the brothers over here talking about black power and Pan africanism? Blacks of Africa need to eradicate the warlords, corrupt ass politicians, and lay down complacent fools, just like blacks of America(I hate the term African American) need to eradicate the sorryass pulpit pimps in churches and mosques who sit their bastardizing the Lord's word and watching the black community go to hell in a handcart, as well as eradicate the baby making bums and tramps as well as the gangbangers and dope dealers! Damn slavery, cuz that ain't got a damn thing to do with causing warlords to capture children in Africa, or cause thugs to shoot children in drive-bys in America.

Negroes kill each other day in, day out, yet y'all do nothing but trip when folk (black or not) calm you out on it. But let a white person even fart in the general direction of a negro in the us or Africa, and y'all will be out protesting and rioting in your own neighborhoods talking bout "no justice, no peace".

GO TO HELL......WITH THAT NONSENSE!!!!

Clean up our streets, stop these bastards and these whores from doing what they do, keep your kids from dropping out of school, doing drugs and having premarital sex, because otherwise our asses don't have a snowball's chance in hell!

@cameron83: Those deleted messages are mine. The server got screwed up for a bit and I posted too many by accident. Sorry.

And why would you feel ignorant? Don't be. As I said before, it's not your fault but if you want to do something about it, there seem to be a good number of people on this thread who could help you. These guys being some of them @biggkeem89 and @jnr6lil. What are you feeling ignorant about?

Well,you guys know...so much.And I know so little... XD I just feel stupid.

basically,regarding African history,you guys seem to be pretty well rounded.

@edamame@kuonphobos@akindoodle@jnr6lil

Regarding biggkeem89's post,can you...I don't know,tell me if it is correct (which I think that it is,but since I know nothing on African History,I need to know based on you guys.Not saying that he is wrong,it's just that I don't really know.And If I "research" I get more confusion because some people on the internet don't even know what they are talking about and may mislead me)?

Also,can you simplify it in points.As I said,I've been running around all day on the road and my mind is unfocused right now,so can you verify if what he says is accurate and which parts (in points,if you can)?

Also,no problem with the posts.I was just curious.

Ok, I just need to point something out. The Egyptians did not keep Jews alone as slaves. It wasn't an elusive thing of hey lets imprison the Jews. It didn't matter to them. Also their slaves were treated differently, and it was more like indentured servitude. The concept of the Egyptians keeping the Jews and just the Jews as slaves was an invention of the old testament. Which for the record is not an accurate book to learn about ancient history from.

Damn dude,calm down!

1. You kinda make it seem as if these problems are exclusive with black people.You also make it seem that there are only black people that are this way.That isn't really the case.

2. You're generalizing a bit,as not all black people are the ones that you see on the Tom Joyner morning show (idiots).

3. Can you calm down with the word coon....I mean,I wouldn't be surprised if you used "p****m*nkey" next.

4. While yes,many black people need to deal with the corruption in the streets instead of sitting down and complaining,and even CONTRIBUTING to that nonsense (with douchebags like Lil wayne and such with his ignorance,bigotry and irrationality),and there are black people who try to fix it.Not just black people,but people of every race. This problem isn't exactly exclusive to black people and something that people of other races are immune to.

5. I don't know what you're talking about with the "no peace,no justice" thing. I really am confused on that one.

6. Well some people are foolish like that.They are not looking for love,they only look for an attractive women so they can calm their childish tendencies (and again,this isn't a race exclusive thing). Not only that,but that is the only thing they see women as: Sex objects. Nothing more. Those immature fools don't even see women as people. They actually ruin the point of a relationship,to find a mate and love each other and crap like that. Not "psuedo-love" where you only LIKE a person and only look for what's on the outside. They are also immature,and--you know what...off topic. Anyway,I am rambling.This only goes to the people it pertains,not just black men (and women). It goes to people of all races that do this. Even some that aren't necessarily "ghetto" do the same things.

7. And again,yes the crime (and the people that do it)...it's just petty and pathetic. All of it. I mainly talk about the people that do it. And again,it's mainly done by those narrow-minded,ignorant,bigoted irrational idiots who barely have an idea as to how the world works with their warped and twisted views.

You know what,I can't focus right now. The fact that the world is not really so black/white only complicates my focus....

@jointron33: Oh wow..... I don't even know what to say to that. Just.... I assume you're saying that Africa needs a revolution (your post was kind of difficult to understand). It's an interesting point. I can tell you, in the last century, Africa's had more revolts and rebellions than the rest of the world put together. But who would you propose we revolt against? Other countries? Ourselves?

@cameron83: Jointron sounds like a racist Uncle Tom. He claims he isn't stereotyping yet proceeds to still call his fellow blacks racial slurs. He makes it seem as if the world is black and white, both literally and figuratively.

And you have to realize why blacks do crime. Poverty, gentrification, bad school systems.

And don't even blame rap music for what happens in the ghetto.

You called ME an Uncle Tom and I'm a bit hurt :( I don't really understand how the word applies to me or even Jointron but yes, Jointron is making some rather ignorant comments. He doesn't seem to understand the consequences of what he's proposing the "blacks of the world" should do. And Migration. You can't forget migration's a huge contributing factor to crime. Also, cultural differences. As bad as these may sound, it's true

@jnr6lil: Funny you mention bad schools. Are they failing just because of sorry ass teachers, or are they in areas where parents for the most part don't give a damn about their children's education.

And duh, of course I realize that these things are not racially exclusive, but is is an undeniable fact that we suffer from these things at an accelerated rare as opposed to others in the world.

And what do we revolt against? Like I said, pulpit pimps, bum-ass politicians and representatives, whores and bums who make babies that they don't take care of, and also dumb ass liberal whites who disgust me more than any klan member due to their altruistic racism and pandering attitudes towards blacks. I am not their damn pet monkey, or their charity case!

I can wipe my own behind, and make history, as opposed to wanting to rewrite to feel better and soothe my own ego that I allow to be damaged. Ain't no slave master keepin you down and making you feel like you ain't worth a fart in the wind. The only ones who say such things and get away with it are the aforementioned white liberals.

@jointron33: 300 years of slavery can put in your mind feelings of lack of confidence or aspirations.

And because of racist teachers, and lack of quality in teaching.

@akindoodle: Sadly, you DO have division of blacks from America, Africa, and the carribbean, despite all of their usual environments being very problem ridden. Thus, we need to end this division. Dark as night or high yellow, we're all black. Thus we need to plant and support business, which could be used to not only help economies ghettoes but also employ ppl, namely excons trying to turn over a new leaf. When crime does go down, actually work with the police who want to help, and to hell with this "no snitch" policy. Demand that teachers give a damn about students, but also require the same of parents.

These are small steps anywhere for blacks to follow that we can use to actually work towards a better future.

@jointron33: Divisions that slavey caused.

Who's going to plant businesses? Who has the money?

The police honestly don't want to help, they don't attack the source, just the criminals.

No snitch policy, is to protect the people who are snitching. Good luck snitching on a gang member.

Okay whoa. Hold up. We should take up arms against people who can't afford to take care of their children? I'll agree on most of the others but that's a bit much, don't you think? Bad education is a huge problem. All over the world. I'm lucky to have a good one and my parents are pretty serious about school work. In fact, in my experience, the African families - immigrant and diplomatic - I know want their kids to take school seriously as they didn't have many opportunities themselves. And I'll admit I don't know much about "dumb ass liberal whites" or the intricacies of American politics as I am not American nor do I live there but as far as I'm aware, a good percentage of the Democratic party isn't actually white. Even if that's not the case, the current face of the party is a black man. The president of the US is a black man. Your argument against liberals doesn't make much sense to me. Could you explain it a bit more? And if not, @jnr6lil could you please help me out a bit if you can? I'll drown if I'm dragged into American politics discussions

@jnr6lil: The problem is sorry ass choices. If you choose to drop out of high school, and now your options are dead end job or drug dealing, that wasn't because a slave master forced it on you. And yes, the criminals who help destroy the community deserve it when their asses get sent to jail, or even better, hell.

In terms of who has the money? Look around you when you venture to a nearby ghetto. What do you see on almost every damn corner? Churches!!! These well kept monuments of failure don't do a damn thing for the community except take their money and preach a bastardized version of the gospel in which Jesus is reduced to a slot machine. Between many of these churches are vacant buildings. Why arent the churches doing something with those? Why aren't they buying back the various formerly black businesses that are now owned by Indians, Lebanese, and Koreans who many times can't stand negroes and will calm the police on your ass at the drop of a hat.

As for what else the churches could do? Well, do what the churches that are still worth a damn (black or white) do. One very helpful program I've seen is where children can come and eat breakfast at the church before school. That may not seem like a hill of beans to some, but simple things like that are what truly help our communities, and not blaming the white man and slavery, neither of which have anything to do with black youths dropping out of school, doing drugs, and screwing each other like there's no tomorrow.

@cameron83: Not erased, just left out a lot of it. Skewed others. And since so much is left out, the affect of Africans on global history is greatly diminished. History dictates social structure, so since African history is diminished in favor of a more Eurocentric view, then it affect the social positioning of black people. I would be more than happy to go into more detail but it would be useless to go into so much in such a small space. I would need an entire thread and a lot of time

If you don't mind, could you PM me explaining that. I'd like to know more. Thank you

All I know is that Africa was very rich once and now they are not. And the Garden of Eden may of been in Ethiopia or Mesopotamia. I'm out.

@akindoodle: I'm glad you asked me, and for someone who isn't American, I APPLAUD you for caring. In terms of the democrats, you have liberal whites, who feel bad about slavery and racism of the past when they had nothing to do with it. What it results in is an attitude where basically these whites look at blacks as being unable to wipe their own behinds, let alone do anything else for themselves.

Also, keep in mind that when welfare was implemented and targeted toward blacks, fdr was quoted as saying "I'll have those niggars voting democrat for the next hundred years". The only way a black woman could get assistance was to not have a husband. Thus, you started having divorces en masse, and illegitimacy, In other words, breakdown of black family. As democrats kept promising more things as longs as blacks continued to destroy themselves, many blacks from my parents generation have grown up with the mindset that they HAVE to vote democrat.

It wasn't because a slavemaster forced it on you but it's the mentality, the mindset they live in a society, where blacks are destined to fail. 300 years of oppression can transcend generations. People don't understand gang members are at war with society. At the end of the day they have to survive, especially in a world with gentrification, a bad school system, poverty and a lifestyle of crime, they've been accustomed to since they were toddlers.

Because they don't have the money to?

And you really are ignorant, so much that If this was a real life conversation, I would've walked away by now. You do realize it's whites who run the education system, it's the government who distributed crack cocaine into the ghetto, etc.

Also if you really cared so much passionately about what goes on, get off the computer and do something about it instead of pointing fingers.

@jointron33: You're way off. There couldn't be a "breakdown of the black family", since there was no "black family" to break down. Any "structure" that could have been had was destroyed during the slave trade where families where ripped apart on a whim. Slaves had to build a different kind of family unit consisting of adoption of people who were not blood related but had built strong bonds during their shared oppression. That's why so many black people have "cousins" or "aunts and uncles" who are actually of no blood relation even today. Two, your idea of family structure is in itself Eurocentric and generally Protest. I assume by "family structure", you mean the American nuclear family model which is based on Protestant Christian ideals. There are multitudes of other cultures where that model doesn't exist and isnt even relevant, so to say something "broke down" because it doesn't fit your societal structures preferred arrangement is wholly ignorant. And you call for liberal whites feeling bad for slavery when they had nothing to do with it? Well, modern white Americans may not have had anything to do with it, but they sure as hell have profited from slavery. This entire country's past was greatly built around the institution of slavery, and many of the luxuries they enjoy today are the fruits of that immoral institution. And to say blacks don't do anything for themselves because the Democrats set up welfare is just racist and ignorant. First of all, most of the people on welfare and any type of government assistance in this country are WHITE, so technically if welfare would get anybody to vote democrat, it would be poor whites. Blacks only make up 13% of the population so even if every black person voted Democrat, we still wouldn't make that much of a difference except in the few black populated areas. So, if you want to blame the breakdown of any "family structure" on welfare, it would be the "white family structure". Do a little more research before you try to make a point. Its a learning experience

This.

At this point I'm done arguing with him.

@jnr6lil: We all know the FBI had to do with the war on drugs, it doesn't mean negroes had to sell the drugs. NO ONE is forcing these fools into this barbarous lifestyle. And as for gang bangers being "soldiers of misfortune", give me a damn break. Fighting over hoochies and property turf that they don't live on let alone pay taxes on ain't no damn fight for liberty. All youre doing is helping to keep the bar hell-low, part of the reason why many wear gang life like its a badge of honor.

I know that,but it isn't limited to black people.

And for the music thing,I am mainly talking about the influences and messages that are being sent to the kids in the school and the lies they are fed. Also the messages that they are given (that people in songs push) that women are just "hoes,b*tches" and just made for sex.

@biggkeem89: Black family was stronger than ever during the civil rights era. And go to hell with that Eurocentric bs. Africans don't take care of their families? Damn, I almost cant be pissed at racists.........