Posted by Paracelsus (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

In a week in which ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) reportedly ordered Iraqi Christians(known as Chaldeans) who date back to Jesus's time to either convert to Islam, pay a prohibitively high poll tax(jizya), emigrate or accept martyrdom( to minimal comment from all save the Pope), it is salutary to reflect on the comparative Western media and official silence on the persecution of Christians in several countries of the world( apart from the "Bad Four" of officially Communist countries such as China, Cuba, North Korea and Vietnam, others such as Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan,Nigeria,Iran, Iraq and India also figure in this) By this I mean REAL persecution(in which priests and laypeople are arbitrarily thrown into prison on trumped up charges, churches are closed or permission for the construction of new ones refused and martyrdom-death for the faith is a real possibility).

There are many reasons why: firstly when the Cold War ended over a quarter century ago, many Western news agencies closed their foreign bureaux on the ground that "the end of history is nigh"( because we "won" the Cold War natch!), several of the countries mentioned above are majority Muslim and Western news agencies are mindful of the charge of "Islamophobia", secondly as Paul Vallely noted in today's Independent On Sunday (www.independentonsunday.co.uk, July 27, 2104), given the left/right ideological divide, Christians fall through the doctrinal faultlines- too religious for liberals and too foreign(presumably too black, brown or yellow as opposed to the comfortingly Caucasian Christians of the Cold War era I daresay) for conservatives.

Also any dwelling on their plight will lead undoubtedly to calls for some kind of military action- and given the unpopularity of both Iraq and Afghanistan, this is a "non-starter".

So what is to be done? Well for a start it would help a lot if conservatives quit belllyaching about faux claims of "persecution" and "oppression"( as if the positions of opponents of Obamacare could ever be really compared to societies in which Christians really ARE suffering for their faith) just as though it would help if liberals acknowledged that freedom to practice one's faith is a basic human right( irrespective of whether or not they themselves subscribe to any given faith) and is not some kind of "imperialist" or "colonialist" plot.

Anybody think as I do?

Terry

#1 Edited by MadeinBangladesh (6917 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think posting these type of threads on Comic Vine is appropriate. Try posting them on Christian site instead of here where it's not gonna go over well.

#2 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio

ya nobody cares. not our problem.

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#3 Posted by Spidey_Jackson (1787 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: So this is what the world has come too.......

Beata

#4 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6917 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: So this is what the world has come too.......

Beata

There's much much much more worse thing happening than this.

#5 Posted by RD189 (1337 posts) - - Show Bio

I think anyone getting killed for their faith is bad, regardless of what that faith is.

#6 Edited by Blade_R (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but long ago didn't some Christian's look down on others and even punish other people for not sharing their faith/beliefs? AKA suffering for their own faith/beliefs?

#7 Posted by Lunacyde (19127 posts) - - Show Bio

@blade_r said:

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but long ago didn't some Christian's look down on others and even punish other people for not sharing their faith/beliefs? AKA suffering for their own faith/beliefs?

Nearly every group in the history of the world has done this at some point.

#8 Posted by Blade_R (2564 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@blade_r said:

Obviously two wrongs don't make a right but long ago didn't some Christian's look down on others and even punish other people for not sharing their faith/beliefs? AKA suffering for their own faith/beliefs?

Nearly every group in the history of the world has done this at some point.

I thought so. I don't agree with punishing somebody for their beliefs or disbeliefs I was just wondering.

#9 Posted by Lunacyde (19127 posts) - - Show Bio

@blade_r:

I know, I was just pointing out that throughout history many groups have done so. In many ways humanity has a sad history.

#10 Posted by silkyballfro94 (1745 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes its terrible, but what can you do. The Pope will not risk anything and what would he even say? Military actions from a western country would be seen as a total siding with the Christians instead of aid which will lead to an even bigger religious war. I think it's best to leave it to the UN to decide what to do. If they don't propose something and ignore it, then that's just messed up. Anyway it's terrible that this is happening. Pray for them if you are religious.

#11 Posted by Paracelsus (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

Some have suggested that I not post such threads on ComicVine(ignoring the factt hat I expressly put them in the "Off Topic" category) and place them on a Christian site( as if Christian sites and media have not already expressly commented on them. The article in my OP cited a British SECULAR newspaper and i fail to see how ghettoizing them on Christian forums (where most people are unlikely to read or comment on them )will address the issue.

To quote the then US President Jimmy Carter in 1977 in a notable speech- human rights are EVERYBODY's business( and the issue of religious freedom is most definitely a human rights issue). Disingenuous blather about " whataboutery"( what the late Cardinal Cathal Daly aptly termed during the NI Troubles- "the most common form of moral evasion around!") does not address the real problem- what if we dismissed apartheid in South Africa as a"black issue" or human rights violations in the Soviet bloc during the Cold War as well, tragic, but it's not really OUR problem???

Terry

#12 Edited by GreatCaesarsGhost (2780 posts) - - Show Bio

@paracelsus: Thanks for sharing this information in this thread, regardless of others complaining, your threads give me some interesting things to look into.

#13 Edited by Ms-Lola (2847 posts) - - Show Bio

Catholics in Egypt have been targeted and murdered, and there was that recent case where a young wife and mother was sentenced to death for not renouncing her Catholic faith (she is safe in Italy now). Many Christians in predominantly Muslim countries where the government is in upheaval suffer. They are a small minority and are pointed to as infidels and resented if they are prosperous. I know of situations in Southeast Asia where churches have been dismantled under bogus claims of improper building permits and the like.

Africa is the continent with the fastest growing population of Catholics and they can sometimes be targeted by followers of other religions as being traitorous and/or evilly heretic. Many long held traditions are being challenged and dropped with these conversions, so I would say this is more do to with humanity's perception of change and difference as a bad thing.

Quick search of Google can point out lots of this. Unfortunately, it's usually non-secular governments where these incidences occur.

#14 Posted by Paracelsus (1651 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that given the whole business about "regime change" in Iraq, Western leaders and voters are understandably leery of any military intervention overseas esp in majority Muslim country, but there ARE steps that the West could take to make it no longer worth the while( of all save the most obsessively fanatical) persecutors of the Faith to continue said policies- trade embargoes/sanctions, raising the matter at the Human Rights Commission of the UN, diplomatic pressure(as led to the release of Meriam Ibrahim from her Sudanese prison on bogus charges of "blasphemy/apostasy" this month), threats to report the persecuting regime to the International Criminal Court at the Hague. Are we really so morally cowardly, so obsessed with our own comfort, in the West that we will NOT do even these things?- if so, may God literally help us!

Terry

#15 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio

if everyone was an atheist then no one would be killed for their religious views

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#16 Posted by Lunacyde (19127 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian said:

if everyone was an atheist then no one would be killed for their religious views

If everyone was white no one would get killed for their skin color.

See how that works?

#17 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Every current major social problem in the world can be traced back to Western Imperialism. You reap what you sow.

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#18 Posted by SilverPool (1523 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian You're right, let's all be white, atheist, asexual beings with common values. You're smart.

#19 Posted by Spidey_Jackson (1787 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: Is it just your job to say insensitive things?

Beata

#20 Edited by Lunacyde (19127 posts) - - Show Bio

Every current major social problem in the world can be traced back to Western Imperialism. You reap what you sow.

You're right, people haven't been fighting and killing each other for thousands of years before that...

#21 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde:

Never said people haven't been killing each for millennia. I said that every "current" social problem. Things like murder, rape, crime, discrimination, etc. have been a continual issue, since humans decided to settle down. If current is not specific enough for your taste, then "contemporary/modern" should suffice.

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#22 Posted by Lunacyde (19127 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde:

I say the world governments should lace their countries' water supplies with LSD. Then you will have world peace :)

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#24 Edited by Squares (6694 posts) - - Show Bio

#25 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian said:

if everyone was an atheist then no one would be killed for their religious views

Nope, they'd be killed over land, money and power struggles. Love when atheists try to pretend religion is the only reason anyone has ever gone to war. You know there have been thousands of wars fought where religion had literally nothing to do with.

#26 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9297 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is it bad for Christians to die? According to the bible, people who die in the name of Jesus will walk with him a thousand years before the great resurrection. It seems that it is suppose to be a good thing for Christians to die for thier faith (or so said in the bible). The bible also says that death is a new beginning, a place where Christians (specifically) will have all tears wiped away etc... So why are you concerned that Christians are dying?

#27 Posted by silkyballfro94 (1745 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Lol just Lol. Why don't we just kill everyone who follows a religion, since they're all going to an afterlife. Better yet let's nuke the whole world because humans are a burden to earth. Life will find a way anyways.

#28 Posted by Petey_is_Spidey (2827 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian said:

ya nobody cares. not our problem.

If you didn't care so much, why comment on the forum???

#29 Posted by Pokeysteve (8304 posts) - - Show Bio

Christians have been treating people like that for centuries and no one cared about them.

#30 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9297 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll tell you what my Father (May he rest in Peace or something) said to me when I had issues.

Well ain't that a kick in the head

He would then raise up his sandaled foot at me and look me in the eyes.

#32 Posted by King Saturn (224210 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this really surprising ? I mean the problem was never that Christians in the Eastern World was getting persecuted... we know that already... the problem is the nature of "Some Christians" in the Western World ( more specifically the United States )... sure, we don't see a whole lot about Christians getting persecuted in the Eastern World... that's because the media plays heavy on the state of Islamic Affairs and Terrorism in the Eastern World and is that really anything surprising ?

#33 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian said:

if everyone was an atheist then no one would be killed for their religious views

Nope, they'd be killed over land, money and power struggles. Love when atheists try to pretend religion is the only reason anyone has ever gone to war. You know there have been thousands of wars fought where religion had literally nothing to do with.

i never said that people wouldn't be killed for one reason or another. I just stated that they wouldn't be killed for their religious view.

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#34 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio
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#35 Posted by Jayc1324 (12299 posts) - - Show Bio

Not surprised.

#36 Edited by Jayc1324 (12299 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: if everyone was any religion no one would be killed. Not just atheist.

#37 Edited by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio
@jayc1324 said:

@hylian: if everyone was any religion no one would be killed. Not just atheist.

but sometimes there are argument's in one single religion. some people might interpret one thing ine way and other people will inerpret it another way.

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#38 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio

@lunacyde said:

@hylian said:

if everyone was an atheist then no one would be killed for their religious views

If everyone was white no one would get killed for their skin color.

See how that works?

yes i agree. but that isn't something we can really change.

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#39 Edited by Jayc1324 (12299 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: similar thing with atheists and agnostics

#40 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8110 posts) - - Show Bio
@jayc1324 said:

@hylian: if everyone was any religion no one would be killed. Not just atheist.

South Park has a pretty great episode about the future where everyone's Athiest and though Science is worshiped people go to War over what to call them selves The United Atheists League vs Something else.

Anyway people will fight and hurt whether or not we have religion. I mean when the first human (Caveman whatever) picked up a rock and decided to use it as a tool in his list of things to use it for was probably Bang rock on Rock, Bang Rock on Tree, then Bang Rock on person to see what happens.

#41 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio

@thecheesestabber: i know there will still be fighting but there will be one less thing to argue about.

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#42 Posted by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: But it'll just be replaced by something else.

#44 Edited by hylian (1532 posts) - - Show Bio
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#45 Posted by TheCheeseStabber (8110 posts) - - Show Bio

@hylian: Its an unending circle of violence ...

#46 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9297 posts) - - Show Bio

@paracelsus: I don't know of any liberals who think people shouldn't be able to believe what they want (religion wise).