Americas becoming a lot like Europe.

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quirky_anecdotes

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#1  Edited By quirky_anecdotes

I've heard this several times after the re-election of Barack Obama and I am completely shocked by it. I must have been busy watching The X-Factor , Elementary ,Kitchen Nightmares , Top Gear US and The Rickey Gervai shows to notice the European effect on our country. Or perhaps to busy roleplaying as Jack Harness while talking to my fellow Whovian friends about The Christmas Invasion.

or maybe it was all that Minecraft Weeping angels mod. I don't know. It's like it totally stuck up on me. At least we still have comic books like Watchmen and

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minigunman123

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#2  Edited By minigunman123

They killed him before he was able to complete his post!!!

ABANDON NATION!

Anyway, yeah, America is slowly becoming more like Europe, more liberal, and less.... Good.

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Xanni15

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#3  Edited By Xanni15

@minigunman123: What do you mean by "less good"?

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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Here's a story: A family friend's sister was sick. She goes to the hospitals in Italy to get help. They reject her for treatment because she was between 60-80, saying that it wasn't worth it. So said sister ends up dying slowly in a narrow hospital bed for like a month before succumbing.

Now socialized medicine. Sounds so good now doesn't it?

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minigunman123

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#5  Edited By minigunman123

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

Here's a story: A family friend's sister was sick. She goes to the hospitals in Italy to get help. They reject her for treatment because she was between 60-80, saying that it wasn't worth it. So said sister ends up dying slowly in a narrow hospital bed for like a month before succumbing.

Now socialized medicine. Sounds so good now doesn't it?

Not really, before socialized medicine, if she could pay to get into the hospital, or had any kind of insurance (senior citizens are already covered for lots of crap in America before Obama screwed up healthcare), she'd have gotten treatment of some sort, whatever her condition was.

Besides, just because someone is dying, and that's unfortunate and sometimes tragic, doesn't mean you have the right to take money from people without their consent for someone they don't know, which is a big part of what Obamacare and America's now partially-socialized medicine system does.

@Xanni15 said:

@minigunman123: What do you mean by "less good"?

Lots of things, such as how in several countries, it's not even legal to preach against homosexuality on a pulpit in a Christian church. Socialized medicine is another one.

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InnerVenom123

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#6  Edited By InnerVenom123

@minigunman123 said:

@Xanni15 said:

@minigunman123: What do you mean by "less good"?

Lots of things, such as how in several countries, it's not even legal to preach against homosexuality on a pulpit in a Christian church.

That is the exact opposite of a bad thing.

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BossMan404

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#7  Edited By BossMan404

oh boy.

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minigunman123

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#8  Edited By minigunman123

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Xanni15 said:

@minigunman123: What do you mean by "less good"?

Lots of things, such as how in several countries, it's not even legal to preach against homosexuality on a pulpit in a Christian church.

That is the exact opposite of a bad thing.

Discrimination against religion is a good thing to you? You're liberal, yes? Shouldn't you be in favor of less discrimination and illegalizing of people's own beliefs? ;)

You know you're a liberal when you can't even keep your views consistent! LOL

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cameron83

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#9  Edited By cameron83

@minigunman123: well actually,in many people's view,that is good.I think that it is okay,being that I am a christian (please pay attention to that part everyone and show me that Americans can at least read). In the bible,somewhere,I am pretty sure that is tells people to mind their own business,and that nobody is better than the other (Of course I am not saying this towards you,and people of a religion are being persecuted for no real justified reason just like other people.It's funny,the people who are persecuting them.And when I say no justified reason,I mean that just because of a few a$$holes,every christian is blamed,so is the religion.Even funny when they are wrong,and are just basically saying crap).

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cameron83

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#10  Edited By cameron83

@minigunman123: and now your going to get it...I can see it

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InnerVenom123

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#11  Edited By InnerVenom123

@minigunman123 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@minigunman123 said:

@Xanni15 said:

@minigunman123: What do you mean by "less good"?

Lots of things, such as how in several countries, it's not even legal to preach against homosexuality on a pulpit in a Christian church.

That is the exact opposite of a bad thing.

Discrimination against religion is a good thing to you?

You're liberal, yes?

Shouldn't you be in favor of less discrimination and illegalizing of people's own beliefs?

Discrimination against stupid things people say is a good thing. Yes.

I don't identify as any political belief. Because I don't care enough to ever pick one. I mostly focus on social stuff whenever I talk on this subject. Usually it involves people being dicks. Pretty sure I'm middle grounded though, because I'm a huge fan of the death penalty. Nice job assuming.

Not if those beliefs are stupid or dangerous.

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Xanni15

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#12  Edited By Xanni15

@minigunman123: It's not illegal to preach against homosexuality in this country, though I don't know why you would want to (I mean I know why someone would want to but don't get "it"). Freedom of speech, man.

I think equality is much more important.

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cameron83

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#13  Edited By cameron83

@Xanni15: agree with you all the way....that isn't to say that I don't agree with you

but people in this country will jeer you and call you close minded (ironically,they are shown to be intolerant of another person's views)

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@minigunman123:

I know that. My last sentence was dripping sarcasm for the more liberal minded out there.

Although I did have a good discussion about a similar case with a close friend who is as left as you can get without going into full on communism. When I told said friend that a close relative of mine would be alive if not for emergency lung treatment, she said (after I told her said relative died in her 70's) that the person lived long enough.

"Lived long enough?" And conservatives are the sick minded when it comes to medicine?

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cameron83

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#15  Edited By cameron83

@InnerVenom123: But won't that,in a way just be taking away freedom from someone else,it is just contradicting.You have to either be for persecution (of any group,doesn't matter christian,muslim,gay/lesbian/bisexual/transexual,atheist,deist,satanist,etc).

If not then you are just contradicting yourself

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cameron83

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#16  Edited By cameron83

@InnerVenom123: and "stupid things" is just opinion,so there is no real difference. Persecution is persecution.

I am not against you at all,I am backing your statements as well if you read my previous comments,but just a thought...

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@InnerVenom123:

If that's bad then why aren't those burning the flag and pissing on images of Jesus arrested? Or what about those who tear apart the Bible and Torah; is it not important enough to be considered sacred, like the Koran?

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InnerVenom123

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#18  Edited By InnerVenom123

@cameron83:

I'm not saying you can't believe in your religion, whatever it is.

But you have no right to use it to be an asshole to other people unjustly.

So maybe focus less on the fire and brimstone and more on the peace and love?

I dunno. I'm not religious. I can't advise them what to do.

Just saying. Don't be a dick.

Rallying up people to be homophobes counts as being a dick.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@minigunman123:

Most people in Italy find social medicine to be perfect. Yet, you wait 5 hours in line just to reserve a room. You bring your own sheets. Toilet paper doesn't exist. There's no air conditioner or heater. No towels. No commodities.

If you need a check-up, prepare to take a number as the doctors like to go on shopping sprees while you wait for your appointment turn.

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InnerVenom123

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#20  Edited By InnerVenom123

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@InnerVenom123:

If that's bad then why aren't those burning the flag and pissing on images of Jesus arrested? Or what about those who tear apart the Bible and Torah; is it not important enough to be considered sacred, like the Koran?

Pissing on images of Jesus? That's a thing now? I've heard of burning the flag, but what....?

Anyway... long as it doesn't hurt people, or lead to people getting hurt, do whatever.

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ssejllenrad

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#21  Edited By ssejllenrad

Oh please! America is much worse than Europe. Europe ain't got Honey Boo Boo!

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cameron83

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#22  Edited By cameron83

@InnerVenom123 said:

@cameron83:

I'm not saying you can't believe in your religion, whatever it is.

But you have no right to use it to be an asshole to other people unjustly.

So maybe focus less on the fire and brimstone and more on the peace and love?

I dunno. I'm not religious. I can't advise them what to do.

Just saying. Don't be a dick.

Rallying up people to be homophobes counts as being a dick.

I agree and that is exactly (in more courteous words of course,lol) my religion says.Unfortunately many people are too stupid to even pay attention to that main idea.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@InnerVenom123:

Ever heard of Piss Christ (or Piss Jesus?)

An "artist" took a crucifix and stuck it in a jar of his own pee and put it out on public display. The Catholic group in New York where it happened at was extremely offended and asked if the piece would be taken down. Instead, there was a block on any Catholic official in the exhibit; none where allowed inside the gallery. I doubt even the standard believers where allowed inside as well.

But nobody ever complained in the news. It's "freedom of speech".

And burning the flag usually happens in accordance with anarchic circles. In the Middle East the flag is burned almost daily along with effigies of Obama.

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cameron83

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#24  Edited By cameron83

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@InnerVenom123:

If that's bad then why aren't those burning the flag and pissing on images of Jesus arrested? Or what about those who tear apart the Bible and Torah; is it not important enough to be considered sacred, like the Koran?

Pissing on images of Jesus? That's a thing now? I've heard of burning the flag, but what....?

Anyway... long as it doesn't hurt people, or lead to people getting hurt, do whatever.

Yeah,they do that...You didn't know?

That is just one of many things that they do,but you gotta get use to it.

Also,that last sentence,I swear I remember seeing that in the bible somewhere,I don't read the bible often (I'm a bad christian,lol),

but I know I saw that somewhere.I know I did....

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gotwillpower

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#25  Edited By gotwillpower

You guys...the point of the election is not which side won, liberal or conservative, democrat or republican. In that respect, it doesn't matter. Both parties have lots of good ideas, but they both have bad ones as well. Congress is meant to argue over those points, but the president is supposed to lead both sides to compromise. We should take some of the ideas from each side, hopefully only the good ones, and use them to shape our country. We should never deal in absolutes.

We seem to be stuck in a rut. As a guy who's upbringing has been absolutely conservative, I think Obama would have done more in his first term if Republicans in Congress had been more willing to compromise. For example, we keep pushing the debt crisis off until a later date, because neither side is willing to accept some of the other party's ideas. So whether we have a democratic or republican president, just remember that if you refuse to ever support the president because of his party affiliation, we won't be able to change anything.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@cameron83:

The bible uses that philosophy in terms of people on people relations (friends etc. Not necessarily lovers.) But it doesn't say as far as I know material object (usually its highly frowned upon as being seen as idol worshiping, which is why Protestant churches often look like warehouses with benches.)

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Matchstick

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#27  Edited By Matchstick

@gotwillpower said:

You guys...the point of the election is not which side won, liberal or conservative, democrat or republican. In that respect, it doesn't matter. Both parties have lots of good ideas, but they both have bad ones as well. Congress is meant to argue over those points, but the president is supposed to lead both sides to compromise. We should take some of the ideas from each side, hopefully only the good ones, and use them to shape our country. We should never deal in absolutes.

We seem to be stuck in a rut. As a guy who's upbringing has been absolutely conservative, I think Obama would have done more in his first term if Republicans in Congress had been more willing to compromise. For example, we keep pushing the debt crisis off until a later date, because neither side is willing to accept some of the other party's ideas. So whether we have a democratic or republican president, just remember that if you refuse to ever support the president because of his party affiliation, we won't be able to change anything.

BEST. POST. EVER.

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InnerVenom123

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#28  Edited By InnerVenom123

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@InnerVenom123:

Ever heard of Piss Christ (or Piss Jesus?)

An "artist" took a crucifix and stuck it in a jar of his own pee and put it out on public display.

Oh. I remember that.

I was in art class, the prof said he was making a statement against how the crucifix he was using was a cheap, plastic model, manufactured in some third world country somewhere.

Apparently he was mocking the fact that the symbol of love sacred to this religion was a cheap plastic thing instead of something hand-made with care.

So.... yeah.

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Xanni15

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#29  Edited By Xanni15

@cameron83 said:

@Xanni15: agree with you all the way....that isn't to say that I don't agree with you

but people in this country will jeer you and call you close minded (ironically,they are shown to be intolerant of another person's views)

It goes both ways, as I'm sure you'd agree.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@gotwillpower:

Conservative? Only his grandmother (I think) was remotely conservative. His grandfather was a hardcore Democrat. His mother hated everything to do with being an American (apparently at one point she, while married to Barack's step-dad was asked about how it was being American and she almost screamed out loud how she never wanted to be referred to as being an American. More on the lines of "those are not my people."

His biological father was a known friend of several future terrorist-tied individuals, if my memory serves well.

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Mercy_

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#31  Edited By Mercy_

@gotwillpower said:

You guys...the point of the election is not which side won, liberal or conservative, democrat or republican. In that respect, it doesn't matter. Both parties have lots of good ideas, but they both have bad ones as well. Congress is meant to argue over those points, but the president is supposed to lead both sides to compromise. We should take some of the ideas from each side, hopefully only the good ones, and use them to shape our country. We should never deal in absolutes.

We seem to be stuck in a rut. As a guy who's upbringing has been absolutely conservative, I think Obama would have done more in his first term if Republicans in Congress had been more willing to compromise. For example, we keep pushing the debt crisis off until a later date, because neither side is willing to accept some of the other party's ideas. So whether we have a democratic or republican president, just remember that if you refuse to ever support the president because of his party affiliation, we won't be able to change anything.

Well said.

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lykopis

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#32  Edited By lykopis

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@InnerVenom123:

Ever heard of Piss Christ (or Piss Jesus?)

An "artist" took a crucifix and stuck it in a jar of his own pee and put it out on public display.

Oh. I remember that.

I was in art class, the prof said he was making a statement against how the crucifix he was using was a cheap, plastic model, manufactured in some third world country somewhere.

Apparently he was mocking the fact that the symbol of love sacred to this religion was a cheap plastic thing instead of something hand-made with care.

So.... yeah.

Interesting. It's good to know more of the story.

Universal healthcare is awesome.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@InnerVenom123:

But he should know what kind of reaction it would have generated. I'd say it equal to a swastika sprayed on a wall, but then again swastikas are a right-winger thing.

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cameron83

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#34  Edited By cameron83

@gotwillpower said:

You guys...the point of the election is not which side won, liberal or conservative, democrat or republican. In that respect, it doesn't matter. Both parties have lots of good ideas, but they both have bad ones as well. Congress is meant to argue over those points, but the president is supposed to lead both sides to compromise. We should take some of the ideas from each side, hopefully only the good ones, and use them to shape our country. We should never deal in absolutes.

We seem to be stuck in a rut. As a guy who's upbringing has been absolutely conservative, I think Obama would have done more in his first term if Republicans in Congress had been more willing to compromise. For example, we keep pushing the debt crisis off until a later date, because neither side is willing to accept some of the other party's ideas. So whether we have a democratic or republican president, just remember that if you refuse to ever support the president because of his party affiliation, we won't be able to change anything.

nicely put

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@lykopis:

Yeah...for termites. At least though their queen gets laid as much as she wants in her life span.

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lykopis

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#36  Edited By lykopis

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@lykopis:

Yeah...for termites. At least though their queen gets laid as much as she wants in her life span.

You are going to have to explain that to me. Are you referring to Universal healthcare?

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cameron83

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#37  Edited By cameron83

@Xanni15: Agreed (if I didn't I would sound like a hypocrite!)

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope: yeah,but I think I read somewhere other scriptures that said things similar,or maybe they were talking about different things....I think it was the former.

Anyway I guess I should stop since this isn't bible-vine,but I agree with the guy who has a batman-icon/avatar.

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InnerVenom123

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#38  Edited By InnerVenom123

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@InnerVenom123:

But he should know what kind of reaction it would have generated. I'd say it equal to a swastika sprayed on a wall, but then again swastikas are a right-winger thing.

Well, that's art for you.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@lykopis:

Yup. It essentially levels out healthcare and makes it equal across the board with only extra care given to those who can stomach paying through the nose for an operation. (which is why the upper 2 floors in a public health office in Europe look like heaven compared to the lowers floors that look like butt.)

Termites are not given an extra bonus like humans and are all inherently equal, answering only to one supreme command. Essentially what healthcare will be like in the states come next year and 2014.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@InnerVenom123:

Strangely enough, a place near where I live in called Glendale has swastikas rimming all the lamp posts in the streets. It must be an Indian (India Native) design because there's no way they'd be allowed in public if they weren't.

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lykopis

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#41  Edited By lykopis

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope:

I can't speak for Italy, but I can for Spain, Greece and Portugal and their healthcare buildings look nothing like that. When I needed medical attention in each of these countries, I was treated well.

Same for Canada. Its the same for everyone --- there is no higher tier for people who are willing to pay for it, its against the law.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@cameron83:

It says not to worship false idols. A statue of Jesus isn't necessarily a false idol because we pray to the person who inspired the art, not the art itself.

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Necrotic_Lycanthrope

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@lykopis:

Those countries are in horrible economic straights as of now. So what might have been sweet then might be very sour now. (and I spent a semester of college listening to the wonderful world of Canadian medicine. Just hearing the two words back to back is enough to give me PTSD.)

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lykopis

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#44  Edited By lykopis

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope:

Their health system isn't what crippled them -- its far more complicated than that however a focus on universal healthcare should be a basic right for anyone. It should be (and is) at the core of these governments.

I have no idea what you are implying when it comes to Canadian healthcare.

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minigunman123

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#45  Edited By minigunman123

@Xanni15 said:

@cameron83 said:

@Xanni15: agree with you all the way....that isn't to say that I don't agree with you

but people in this country will jeer you and call you close minded (ironically,they are shown to be intolerant of another person's views)

It goes both ways, as I'm sure you'd agree.

It can, but things like InnerVenom's thoughts about how saying "homosexuality is wrong, don't do it" is a bad, evil thing, is one of the close minded things. So, we're not allowed to have our own opinions on things? He seriously just said, you have to think a certain way, or you should get thrown in jail. How is that even remotely OK? It's Nazism. Christians don't teach that we should all be stoning gays, or anything, we just teach that we shouldn't be doing it. It's a lifestyle choice that we should all be free to make and teach, but just like how homosexuals sometimes get slammed by jerks who don't approve of them, or they get physically abused, Christians who don't agree with homosexuality, such as myself, get slammed way more often per person with those beliefs, and often just as hard. You might have no idea, but I've witnessed it first hand in a public venue that normally has pretty benign folk. We don't have the occasional ass calling us "fags" or something (which is awful, by the way,) we get constantly inundated with things like "you're beliefs are evil" or "you're evil", or "you're a blind fool following silly beliefs", or "you're a close minded moron", or "your god is dead", or challenges to our faith from people who are angry at us individuals for whatever reason (such as people trying to disprove our beliefs), whenever we bring up what we believe. When people say they're gay, the most common response is one of praise, in America and Europe. Families might sometimes have trouble with it (families have trouble when a family member decides to change their religion too), there are certain areas that have a high density of people that actually hate gays (there are plenty of people that are vocal about how they hate Christians or Christian people, or at least many ideologies of it), and for every area like that, there are at least two like that for Christians (and that's being conservative, since nearly everyone who's not Christian or Catholic disagrees with us, and at one point or another, tries to debate with us because they don't like our beliefs), and the most common response when someone says they're Christian or *gasp* says they disapprove of homosexuality, is one of abuse and insulting remarks. I have actually been blessed by knowing a gay person who's one of my best friends, who knows I'm Christian and knows my stance, but we're cool with each other, we're friends, and we actually joke around a lot and protect each other from crap on campus; Christians do not hate gays, and we should be allowed to try and teach our own religion because it is not one of hatred. Anyone who says it is, is ignorant of what Churches teach every Sunday.

Luckily, America has not banned anything about being Christian yet, but many other countries, including Canada, have. That's what started this whole topic.

It is not a one-way street, you're right, but traffic is certainly higher on one lane than the other, but that's just not a popular topic within media, or at least, not one people like to acknowledge.

This is why America seems to be getting worse from my perspective. It's like how gays used to be treated 60 or 100 years ago, and it's getting worse. It wasn't right then, it's not right now. America needs to stand apart from other countries and not have socialized medicine, not outlaw preaching against homosexuality, and not redistributing wealth because rich people are somehow "bad" or "owe" it to others (and, by the way, lots of rich people donate to many charities, in significant amounts, in addition to the taxes they pay to help fund the stupid crap we have; they definitely don't "owe" anyone anything just because they're rich.) This is what I mean by America getting worse. We're tending towards these ideals, and it's bad.

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@lykopis:

It's essentially a clone of the European one, if I recall. It's just that I'm so tired of hearing how Canada is such a far superior society with healthcare that doesn't abandon people like Americans that I might go a bit schizoid.

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#47  Edited By lykopis

@minigunman123:

Luckily, America has not banned anything about being Christian yet, but many other countries, including Canada, have.

What are you talking about? Canada hasn't "banned anything about being Christian."

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#48  Edited By minigunman123

@lykopis said:

@minigunman123:

Luckily, America has not banned anything about being Christian yet, but many other countries, including Canada, have.

What are you talking about? Canada hasn't "banned anything about being Christian."

People have gotten arrested for preaching against homosexuality on the pulpit in church, in Canada, before.

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#49  Edited By lykopis

@Necrotic_Lycanthrope said:

@lykopis:

It's essentially a clone of the European one, if I recall. It's just that I'm so tired of hearing how Canada is such a far superior society with healthcare that doesn't abandon people like Americans that I might go a bit schizoid.

Not a clone --- pretty much was thought up by a gentleman by the name of Tommy Douglas. As for Canada being a far superior society in regards to healthcare as compared to the United States, I wouldn't go so far as to call it far superior but it is better.

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#50  Edited By lykopis

@minigunman123 said:

@lykopis said:

@minigunman123:

Luckily, America has not banned anything about being Christian yet, but many other countries, including Canada, have.

What are you talking about? Canada hasn't "banned anything about being Christian."

People have gotten arrested for preaching against homosexuality on the pulpit in church, in Canada, before.

Provide proof of this.