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#51 Posted by Illuminatus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Alcohol consumption has, historically, gone up when the State has attempted to hinder that very consumption. It only serves to fuel an untraceable, unquantifiable, and unnecessarily violent trade.

#52 Edited by consolemaster001 (4472 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: lol get caught drinking in saudi arabia and you get 80 lashes lol

#53 Edited by Zain_ (1056 posts) - - Show Bio
#54 Edited by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

Your body your choice.

#55 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio
#56 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29330 posts) - - Show Bio

Well that sucks.

#57 Edited by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: 'It' doesn't effect other people. YOU effect other people. People need to take responsibility for their own actions.

#58 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: Well if you have kids and you are an avid drinker, the drink effects the kids. Breaking it down to "it" and "you" does not matter, the consequences are the same.

#59 Posted by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: You are responsible for your own behavior with your kids. You are responsible for how much you drink, when you drink it, and what you do while drunk.

You have moral agency. You can't pass the buck to inanimate objects.

#60 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: Well, that's like saying let's legalize heroin as its just an object. Yes its the persons choice, but the government has a responsibility to make sure the populace are as safe as possible, I disagree with this though but still...the argument can be made both ways. Also its meaningless as a Muslim state should not even drink lol So....wtf? I don't think the governments should "forbid" drinking, but I don't think they should ignore it completely.

#61 Edited by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: I don't believe its any of the governments business if you want to ruin your life with heroin. Government exists to protect you from other people, not yourself. It ain't your mommy ;-)

#62 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: Let's not over simplify, Me becoming addicted to heroin will effect more than me. What about my family? Friends? How will I get that money to fund my addiction? Crime, and the victim of the crime suffers. And I suffer, It's more complicated than ruin YOUR life. It affects more than he user. That is why the government has an obligation to ban such substances.

#63 Posted by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Those are all choices YOU make. YOU chose to take heroin. YOU chose to commit crimes. YOU chose to ruin your families life. That's on you, that's your choice. You can't pass the buck to heroin or the government. Its you.

#64 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: So you let the victims suffer because I cannot take responsibility? That is not logical.

#65 Posted by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: I'm not sure what you're talking about. You have responsibility regardless if weather or not you accept that responsibility. Moral agency is yours.

#66 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: I'm sorry I must have misunderstood. I mean, You are not wrong the moral BS is all on the drug taker, but does the government allow other people to suffer using the excuse that its on the taker? And allow victims to suffer. Just because you have accepted that responsibility, does not mean the victims are any better.

#67 Edited by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@jj62 said:

I think it's wrong to deny people their basic human rights. Adults (not kids, mind you) should be allowed to drink whatever they want as long as it doesn't directly harm yourself or those around you. But, some folks abuse it, and alcohol can indirectly hurt people. Which is why drunk drivers and the like are penalized for not taking responsibility for their actions. Which makes sense...Drinking too much and hurting people through it should be penalized. Drinking in itself, shouldn't. I don't drink, but I don't think it's right to tell people what they are allowed to eat and drink.

Then again, I'm not Turkish. And I don't have a firm grip on what the culture there is like.

Drinking beer is a human right? 0-0

It is, haven't you heard :P.

Don't deny yourself of your human rights. You may make yourself look foolish and thank God for the not remembering a thing but DONT DENY YOUR HUMAN RIGHTS!!!!!!

#68 Edited by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio
#69 Edited by The Stegman (20703 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the comparisions people are making to alcohol here are quite ridiculous. Yeah fast food, smoking and a billion other things can kill you, but I don't see a cheeseburger causing you to drive intoxicated and mow down pedestrians, or get into fights over things a sober you would brush off. Alcohol is a different kind of demon, it makes you do things you normally wouldn't do, say things you normally would'nt say and make decisions you will probably later regret. It turns perfectly normal and sane people into drunken Neanderthals and makes you not want to be around them. And I know the main argument is 'Oh it's fine if you drink responsibly" Drinking responsibly is an oxymoron because the very act of drinking is irresponsible due to the effects it can have on your body and mind. Prohibition was a good idea in my mind, people were just too stupid to see it and rebelled against it. To me alcohol is just as bad as the illegal drugs out there.

#70 Posted by laflux (11020 posts) - - Show Bio
#71 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (21276 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_stegman: I agree with most of what you said,but to say alcohol is no better then illegal Narcotics is false,I have seen the effects they have on folks.

#72 Posted by judasnixon (5423 posts) - - Show Bio

Boooooooooooooooooo....... Some more.

#73 Posted by consolemaster001 (4472 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: 98% percent of the population is muslim and 85% of them do not consume alcohol. Soooooo why is alcohol legal in the first place ?

#74 Posted by consolemaster001 (4472 posts) - - Show Bio
#75 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio
#76 Posted by SithLantern93 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow did someone post something about my country?! And besides my country is no way a secular country. According to our ''dear'' prime minister Erdogan, in order to be a decent citizen, you must be a religious person. I don't give a damn about alcohol laws in my country getting more tight, since I don't consume alcohol.

#77 Posted by consolemaster001 (4472 posts) - - Show Bio
#78 Posted by SithLantern93 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Ridiculous. I hope the EU is paying attention -- hopefully this country never gets to become a part of it.

Cars kill -- additives in your food kill -- hey -- let's ban sugar as well since obesity is the sole reason the next generation of children have an expected lower life expectancy. If anyone claims this has nothing to do with Islam - they are lying. So much for being "fiercely" secular.

Who said anything about my country being a secular one :D Our ''sultan'' Tayyip the First explicitly stated that a person cannot be Muslim and also a secular person at the same time. Besides why would the EU pay attention anyway? My country has always been a joke to them since the very first day Turkey was founded.

#79 Edited by SithLantern93 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio
#80 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: Lashing somebody 80 times is not exactly giving somebody their right to not get tortured.

#81 Posted by consolemaster001 (4472 posts) - - Show Bio
#82 Posted by SithLantern93 (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: Baba tarafı sanırım Bitlis'ten geliyor. Ama oranın yerlileri mi yoksa oraya göç mü etmişler tam bilmiyorum. Anne tarafı Kırıkkale'den geliyor. Senin memleket neresi?

#83 Posted by consolemaster001 (4472 posts) - - Show Bio
#84 Posted by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: You should be sorry. Disagreeing with me, what's wrong with you?!

Because we're talking about moral agency here. The 'government' is actually a group of people. And none of those people are responsible for the bad choices of someone hundreds of miles away. Secondly the law abiding citizens, who must bear the cost of enforcement and imprisonment, are not responsible for the bad choices of drug addicts.

There's no reason they should have to pay more taxes just to hold thousands and thousands of drug users in prison for decades.

The drug user is the one that is making the mistake. THEY should pay the cost, not society.

#85 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio

@amaranth_strix: Shutit! I'll start stabbing soon and take no responsibility :p

Fair enough, fair enough but how should the drug user be made to pay if taking drugs is not illegal?

#86 Posted by Amaranth (8052 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Why make him pay at all? I mean if you do heroin for ten years you're ALREADY paying lol.

#87 Posted by Pyrogram (32215 posts) - - Show Bio
#88 Posted by Gwahlur_Rising (216 posts) - - Show Bio

Great...there go my vacation plans!

#89 Edited by mrdecepticonleader (16850 posts) - - Show Bio
#90 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram:

Turkey isn't a Muslim state -- officially, anyway.

@lykopis said:

Ridiculous. I hope the EU is paying attention -- hopefully this country never gets to become a part of it.

Cars kill -- additives in your food kill -- hey -- let's ban sugar as well since obesity is the sole reason the next generation of children have an expected lower life expectancy. If anyone claims this has nothing to do with Islam - they are lying. So much for being "fiercely" secular.

Who said anything about my country being a secular one :D Our ''sultan'' Tayyip the First explicitly stated that a person cannot be Muslim and also a secular person at the same time. Besides why would the EU pay attention anyway? My country has always been a joke to them since the very first day Turkey was founded.

EU wasn't around when Turkey was founded, but I understand what you mean. And it's Turkey who is in pursuit of joining the EU - it's supposed secularism is crucial to that being possible, including other deficiencies in terms of gender equality etc. So yes, the EU would pay attention when a country who claims its government is secular begins instilling laws which are clearly religious based.

Frankly, a country in which the majority of its people doesn't drink makes this restriction senseless. It's one thing to do this in response to growing concerns of alcohol abuse, but there isn't any. This is purely to accommodate your Prime Minister's Islamic leanings. Slippery slope there.

@pyrogram: 98% percent of the population is muslim and 85% of them do not consume alcohol. Soooooo why is alcohol legal in the first place ?

You are of the mind your country should follow sharia law, entirely?