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#1 Posted by consolemaster001 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

The Islamic-rooted Justice and Development Party (AKP) sent a bill on Friday which includes a series of measures to restrict how alcohol is advertised and displayed.

The bill includes a ban on event sponsorship for alcohol producers, restrictions on where drinks are sold and consumed, as well as a requirement for all alcoholic products to carry health warnings.

It is believed the bill could become a law before parliament recesses in July.

Although the bill has a stated aim of protecting young people, Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is renowned for his dislike of drinking, and has systematically raised taxes on alcohol he came to power 10 years ago.

Speaking in April at the global alcohol policy symposium in Istanbul, Erdogan angered secular Turks by claiming the country’s national drink was Ayran a non-alcoholic yoghurt-based drink and not the anise-flavoured spirit Raki.

“Our national drink is ayran…Alcohol offers no benefits to a society,” he is reputed to have said at the symposium.

Furthermore, in February this year, Turkey’s national carrier THY announced that it would cease serving alcoholic drinks on all domestic flights for both economy and business class passengers, except for certain routes, such as journeys to Istanbul.

The ban was justified on non-religious grounds, but it is widely felt that such a move is part of a campaign by Erdogan, a devout MusliM, to severely restrict alcohol consumption in public.

Critics say the move is the latest in a campaign led by the AKP to Islamize Turkish society by stealth and constitutes an intrusion into private life.

It follows a ban on drinks service on several routes flown by state-run Turkish Airlines. Official statements cited lack of demand, but media accused the airline of following Ankara’s conservative footsteps.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, a Muslim who does not drink or smoke, said recently that ayran, a non-alcoholic refresher made from yoghurt, was the “national drink” of the Turks.

According to figures provided by national statistics institute TurkStat, 85 percent of Turks do not consume alcohol.

Erdogan’s populist government, in power for over a decade, is often accused of creeping efforts to coerce the country to be more conservative and pious.

Turkey is a fiercely secular state, despite being a majority Muslim country. Under Erdogan’s rule, headscarves (that were banned in public institutions)have become more visible in public places and alcohol bans are more widespread

What do you guys think about this ? I think this is great !

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#2 Posted by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's terrible. I don't drink myself but i would never think of limiting or discouraging other adults from drinking (teens are a different story).

#3 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (34350 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: Why not? Drink is just as bad for you as say smoking.

#4 Posted by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: because they're adults. They can make their own choices and limiting that is taking away part of their freedom. If they don't harm another, why shouldn't they be allowed to drink if they enjoy the occassional drink? Not everyone who drinks is a drunk.

#5 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: most drugs taken in moderation do not harm you. yet they are banned. alcohol is legal. just because it is legal that doesnt mean it's good for you or ok to take once in a while.

#6 Posted by consolemaster001 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: I disagree. Drinking not only severely damages the human body but also can lead to: murder, rape, domestic abuse and vehicular slaughter. A study shows that more than half of the abusive husbands and parents are drinkers ! Then there's the spiritual side to this, 98% percent of the turkish population is Muslim. Sure you might say that "Well i drink all the time and i never hurt anybody." congradulations, but it's better to be safe then sorry.

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#7 Posted by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: soft drugs are actually legal where i live. And it doesn't change the fact that the people are responsible for their own choices, we shouldn't decide it for them. Because if you look at that way, Lets ban fast food as well?

#8 Edited by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: religion can also lead to rape, abuse, violence etc. So Lets ban that as well?

#9 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: we shouldnt decide for them yes. but we should try to eliminate the bad choices as well. cigarette & alcohol companies love scream at the top of their lungs about freedom of choice while lining their pockets and alcoholics and chain smokers just nod in agreement. as consolemaster said drinking leads to so many things. i'd wager 90% of crimes have alcohol involved somehow. and smoking can kill you, even if you dont smoke. just by sitting next to some guy at the bust stop everyday.

#10 Edited by The Stegman (25523 posts) - - Show Bio

If I had one wish, I would wish alcohol as a form of drink was never invented and never would be,it's the bane of humanity.

#11 Edited by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: if you really think this is the answer read up on the prohibition in the US. It did little to make things better, instead you promote illegal activities

#12 Posted by consolemaster001 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: Why would you bring that up ? We are not talking about religion here, don't turn this into another religion debate thread.

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#13 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: i know about the prohibition in the us. they shouldnt have quit. as for me promoting illegal activities, isnt the goverment promoting illegal activities by banning weed? and other drugs?

#14 Posted by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: you mentioned that you believe alcohol is responsible for a large percentage of abuse etc. Then you mentioned the spiritual part. I'm bringing forth other reasons for this abuse that play an equal if not greater part in this. You also mentioned the Muslim culture, and it's mentioned in the article. I don't believe i'm in the wrong bringing this up :)

#15 Posted by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: apologies, i meant 'it' not 'You' ^_^

And i don't believe by outright banning things you make things better, you basically force people who want it to get it by illegal activities.

Do i think the world would be better if alcohol, drugs etc never existed? Yes i do. But the fact is, it does exist. And so we have to handle that in a responsible way. I feel alcohol is being demonized here... It has actually been proven that a glass of red wine is healthy for you. Weed is great for people who have a painful illness etc

#16 Posted by consolemaster001 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross: I was talking about the turkish people, 98% percent of the population is muslim and since consuming alcohol is forbidden in the islamic faith it's better that they don't drink in the first place. Also it's not religion that causes all the misery, it's the mentality of the religious extremists and psychopaths. Alcohol renders people drunk and causes them to commit acts that they wouldn't even think of doing while they are sober. I never said alcohol causes most of the abuse and murder etc. i only stated that it could LEAD to such acts, don't twist my words.

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#17 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Ridiculous. I hope the EU is paying attention -- hopefully this country never gets to become a part of it.

Cars kill -- additives in your food kill -- hey -- let's ban sugar as well since obesity is the sole reason the next generation of children have an expected lower life expectancy. If anyone claims this has nothing to do with Islam - they are lying. So much for being "fiercely" secular.

#18 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4530 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by Aiden Cross (15575 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001: well, you mentioned it yourself: it's the mentality. Same goes for peoplewho drink. As i said before, not everyone who drinks get drunk. And alcohol is actually healthy if you just have a glass of wine everyday. And i didn't say anything about most of the abuse/murder... I said a large percentage of. Don't twist my words.

You have to see the difference between heavy drinking and modest. You're thinking in extremes. If i eat 20 bags of sugar because i like the taste and love the sugar rush it's unhealthy for me as well. Same as i drink lots of alcohol. Yet if i just eat a little, i'm perfectly fine.

What you're doing is demonizing alcohol. And alcohol isn't inherently bad, it's the people that consume it and don't know their own limits. And that goes for everything.

#20 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by consolemaster001 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis said:

Ridiculous. I hope the EU is paying attention -- hopefully this country never gets to become a part of it.

Cars kill -- additives in your food kill -- hey -- let's ban sugar as well since obesity is the sole reason the next generation of children have an expected lower life expectancy. If anyone claims this has nothing to do with Islam - they are lying. So much for being "fiercely" secular.

Eh, turkey doesn't really gives a crap about the EU anymore :p. The current party in power in turkey is islamic so yeah they are trying to make it more islamic. As for being "fiercely secular" you should see turkey during the 30s and 40s where people could get hanged for wearing a fez instead of a hat, and people were imprisioned and killed for reading the quran in arabic.

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#22 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001:

Turkey does give a crap. They are the ones applying to become a part of it. As for a country who is led by a religious party -- that in itself is horrific. As for Turkey's past -- I haven't heard of people being hanged for wearing a fez or reciting the Quran in Arabic, but I am aware of the honour killings that still go on and even worse, left unpunished in the rural areas of the country. It's too bad that all the effort in the 30's and 40's didn't manage to stamp out those atrocities committed in the name of Islam.

#23 Edited by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm straight edge so I don't give a flying jack about this. but... adults should have the right to make a choice... so I'd say anyone under 21 should be controlled on their access to alcohol

but not adults

but there should be ads and campaigns on the negatives of alcohol and other drugs, to inform people and reduce their use

also

isn't turkey an almost fully Islamic country? I thought Muslims couldn't drink alcohol! WTH

@lykopis: what does this have to do with the EU? I'm much more concerned about the atrocities that go down in there than about some prohibition laws.... that's what should be the basis of the judgment on whether Turkey can join in or not.

either way, the economical and political situation of the EU basically prohibits anyone from joining for the next several years....

and if Turkey does get their stuff straight I see no problem for them to join us. I have no problems with Islam

#25 Edited by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@consolemaster001:

I wanted to apologize to you for this:

It's too bad that all the effort in the 30's and 40's didn't manage to stamp out those atrocities committed in the name of Islam.

I didn't mean for it to come across the way it did -- all those horrors of which you've described isn't something to referred to so cavalierly. I meant more that the Turkish government should have focused their efforts on the people who committed atrocities in the name of Islam and not on the peaceful citizens who were refused their right to free religious worship. I'm a work in progress and pretty ignorant about Turkey's past, obviously.

@jorgevy:

Pretty much what I was getting at. A country which has yet to achieve the levels of human rights expected by all free, democratic countries shouldn't be traveling along a road that focuses more on something as trivial as restrictive alcohol laws than others. Definitely not something which should be the reason to prevent them membership to the EU -- I should have been more clear.

#26 Posted by laflux (17551 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis:

Its shameful, but I get the feeling people are surprised. Why? Turkey has always had a strong fundamentalist streak. Even in Eurovision (slight diversion, but please for the love of God watch Romania's performance), Turkey refused to air Finland's song because it had two women kissing. Which is a shame, if only because that was the only thing good about the song :DDD.

Jokes aside, if Turkey is pretending to be more secular to enter the EU, then I want to phone the government to tell them what an awesome job they are doing :P

#27 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux:

Will do (about Romania's performance) and yes -- it's true about Turkey and their attempts to appear secular. Their cities (at least in Istanbul) are much more modern in their social practices than the villages in the southeast. The country ranked lower than Iran when it came to gender equality -- not helped when the country's own leader declared he didn't believe in equality himself.

#28 Posted by Bogey (952 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks like Turkey wants no part of the European Union.

#29 Posted by Jorgevy (5114 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis: ah much better. what you said before sounded ridiculous (sorry). specially since some countries in Europe do some similar stuff to tobacco and other drugs (including alcohol), not on the same scale and definitely not with the same intentions behind them though

#30 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by mrdecepticonleader (18620 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I don't think its great.

#32 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

Blah, these laws are a joke. Went to Dubai last summer, despite alcohol being illegal, it was widespread. It's the Middle Eastern equivalent of marijuana. You get caught with it, it's a little fine and a slap on the wrist, other than that everyone is doing it.

On a side note, heroin costs like 20 cents for a gram in Afghanistan :/

#33 Posted by judasnixon (6961 posts) - - Show Bio

Boooooooooooooooooo.......

#34 Edited by Edamame (28391 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting.

#35 Edited by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio
Prohibition, baby

#36 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:
Prohibition, baby

Does this mean bootlegging turkic-italian gangsters would fill the Turkish streets in the near future?

#37 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

It's the Middle Eastern equivalent of marijuana.

Not really. Dubai maybe quite lenient but UAE is relatively more liberal than other Middle Eastern countries. Get caught in Saudi? I doubt it will be just slap in the wrists.

#39 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

It's the Middle Eastern equivalent of marijuana.

Not really. Dubai maybe quite lenient but UAE is relatively more liberal than other Middle Eastern countries. Get caught in Saudi? I doubt it will be just slap in the wrists.

Yeah, I guess it was too broad of a generalization I made. I've been to Turkey, UAE, and Egypt. They never seemed to have an issue with liquor as far as I can remember. But as a foreigner, I guess I'm not actually seeing the 'real' picture.

#41 Posted by Tacos_Kickass (844 posts) - - Show Bio

I just always assumed anything fun is illegal in most Muslim countries.

#42 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio
#43 Edited by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@omgomgwtfwtf: Wow! Traveller much? I've also been to some of the Arab countries as a tourist but in places where they were quite stricter. Like Saudi or Iran.

@nerx: And now I can't get the image of an Arab saying mobster jargon out of my head.

#44 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: Yeah, it's nice, my mom's work involves a lot of traveling, so occasionally hitch a ride with her. She's nice and lets me bring like 1-2 friends depending on where we are going. We don't have to pay for the rooms or room service because her company comps it for her.

#45 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's wrong to deny people their basic human rights. Adults (not kids, mind you) should be allowed to drink whatever they want as long as it doesn't directly harm yourself or those around you. But, some folks abuse it, and alcohol can indirectly hurt people. Which is why drunk drivers and the like are penalized for not taking responsibility for their actions. Which makes sense...Drinking too much and hurting people through it should be penalized. Drinking in itself, shouldn't. I don't drink, but I don't think it's right to tell people what they are allowed to eat and drink.

Then again, I'm not Turkish. And I don't have a firm grip on what the culture there is like.

#46 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: The accent makes it funny, and then they pray together on fridays

#47 Posted by Pyrogram (41246 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

I think it's wrong to deny people their basic human rights. Adults (not kids, mind you) should be allowed to drink whatever they want as long as it doesn't directly harm yourself or those around you. But, some folks abuse it, and alcohol can indirectly hurt people. Which is why drunk drivers and the like are penalized for not taking responsibility for their actions. Which makes sense...Drinking too much and hurting people through it should be penalized. Drinking in itself, shouldn't. I don't drink, but I don't think it's right to tell people what they are allowed to eat and drink.

Then again, I'm not Turkish. And I don't have a firm grip on what the culture there is like.

Drinking beer is a human right? 0-0

#48 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: Well yeah, people have the human right to eat and drink whatever they want. As long as it doesn't directly harm themself or others around them...

#49 Posted by Pyrogram (41246 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62: And beer does harm. Well if not taken in moderation.

#50 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram: It doesn't always cause harm. It CAN do harm. People who misuse and abuse it should be penalized for that.

They have the right and should be allowed to drink it, but if they abuse it they must suffer the consequences.

That's the way it should be IMO.