About the Goku vs Superman Death Battle...

I watched it. I didn't like it. Don't get me wrong, the fact that Goku lost isn't what bothers me. I mean sure in my opinion the mainstream version of Superman tops off at about Freeza level, but that doesn't change the fact that their first video was genuinely entertaining. Their first video was awesome, well worth the 30 or so minutes. Now this one? I really don't even see why they did it. The video was just boring, I'm not sure if it was Death Battle just trying to defend their position or appease somebody or what... but it seemed pointless.

It's fine that Superman won, but I don't like the way they reached that outcome. Instead of going by feats and actual capabilities, they based the whole battle on an extremely subjectiveinterpretation of the thematic elements of Superman, which is... well extremely subjective. I've seen many Superman stories, and their interpretation of the character just isn't who the character actually is. Their reasonings come off as some type of idol worship of an ideal version of the character, when in reality, the fictional character as seen in DC comics, movies, and animation actually DOES have clear limits. Limits which vary from version to version, indeed some Supermen do represent the invincible god, but taking the highest end abilities of every version of Superman ever and calling that the definitive Superman is... again, extremely subjective.

If they were taking both characters at the absolute pinnacle of their abilities, then they should have acknowledged Goku as unbeatable as well, since, thematically, he should always overcome any walls put in front of him, automatically. Batman is exactly the same as Superman, at least, some versions are, so how did he lose to Spider-Man if he too is limitless?

I mean I don't think Wizz and Boomstick have anything against Dragon Ball, it's just that their particular way of judging battles is automatically skewed in Superman's favor. I just don't like how they came off as objectively 'setting the record straight' so to speak, like their video was supposed to put this whole thing to rest and enlighten everybody on the truth. No, your reasonings are more suited for a formal analysis of the character's underlying themes and symbolism, not a 'Death Battle' which is what you claim to be about.

I mean I understand where they were coming from and I can respect that perspective. I just don't think Superman's thematic significance is grounds for him literally being invincible, as they concluded. What would they say if I asked Superman vs Thanos? Or Galactus? Or TOAA?... Or Batman? It's at that point that their logic completely falls apart, because Superman can't be invincible but only to a certain extent. That doesn't make any sense.

I mean I won't rage over it, people put too much stock into Death Battle as an authoritative figure just because they have a popular YouTube show, but at the end of the day, all their research, comparisons, conclusions, and opinions are no different from me when I make a massive post on Comic Vine. The entire Internet didn't get up in arms when I said Solid Snake can beat Batman 10/10 did it? So why should everybody get up in arms that Whizz and Boomstick said Superman beats Goku 10/10?

To elaborate a bit more I do really enjoy the Death Battle's elaboration on the thematic significance of Superman, I think they hit the nail on the head and have a fantastic understanding of the character. Superman is one of my favorite heroes and it rustles my jimmies when people hate on him and call him a boring boycott or Mary Sue; those people just don't understand the depth of his character. I would be extremely interested in actually having a conversation with Wizz and Boomstick about this stuff, they'd be good at actually writing for Superman since they clearly get the point of why he's cool, I just don't think it's applicable to a 'DEATH BATTLE' which is what we were advertised, which should be objective, factual, and analytical.

Yeah, the outcome isn't the problem. For me it was the "no limits" nonsense that I found dumb.

I feel like th should just use Animated Supes.

Supes beat him fair and square

Superman is at best have limitless strength but people misinterpreted it to limitless power. Screwattack is trying to tell us that Supes have limitless strength not power ( It's so obvious, why won't people get that? )

I agree. I don't care about the outcome but using such terrible logic for their justification is just insulting.

Once again I agree 100% with ya.

No wait... I disagree 100%. Silly me. I feel it was spot on.

@mysticmedivh: That's what i was thinking to. They should have just kept it to new 52 superman with quantifiable feats, and actually has a limit to how much power he has.

for goodness sakes they never said superman had no limits........only his potential had no limits

that being said goku should've won

You guys are all so full of crap. Superman>>>>Goku get over it already.

@naamah_obyzouth: k

If Goku overcomes every limit his potential would be limitless as well, so no, the claim is that Supermans strength is limitless at a specific moment.

My god the ass hurt is unreal.

Who cares? Does anyone take them seriously after Gaara vs Toph?

Goku solostopms effortlessly in base form.

1 fireball is enough.

technically for me, rogue vs wonderwoman is where i don't take them seriously.

I think the mods should watch this as it easily could turn into a flame war of Goku vs Superman. Not lock, just watch.

That being said, I agree. I don't think they used quantifiable factors as much as they should have. Death Battle rarely does in depth research from what I've seen. They cherrypick feats and versions, and don't come to a general conclusion as much as "based off the feats we picked by both characters, this one wins". It all comes off as rather lazy and unmotivated. If either of them went on the battles forum, they'd get torn to shreds by even semi-competent debaters like myself. Their reasoning and logic are about as strong as toilet paper, and people just take them seriously because they decided to animate it and so it's more flashy. So, don't take them seriously.

@saint_of_origin: Exactly my problem wasn't that goku lose it is how they did it plus as someone said i don't know why people take screwattack so seriously their word isn't law these guys are never consistent with there research i seen better arguments from other vs forums than these clowns.

Exactly

I have no problem with Superman beating Goku but he is not invincible or unlimited by any measure except the author's own writing.

While I think that Superman would win the reasoning was definitely dumb.

I think some guys miss the point of the ending. To me the ending showed that Clark could have ended the battle whenever he desired. That being said I don't take screwattack seriously. That being said the major thing for me that determines the outcome of this infamous pairing is feats. Supes has clear, quantifiable and consistent feats so you know where he's at, at his most powerful and at his weakest. On Goku's side though, the majority of it is fan calculations, abc logic, powerscaling and speculation that, with what little feats db character do have contradict each other. Anyway as long as a new form comes out in dbz(unless they hopefully kill Goku off) this batle won't die

@redbird3rdboywonder: Goku has plenty of feats, I don't see why people keep saying "ABC Logic".

If you blitz someone who is MFTL, that'd make you faster.

If you overpower a planet level attack with another attack, your attack should be planetary.

It's just using common sense.

animated Supes is weak as hell, that wouldn't even be fight

The reason people get really rustled is that they aren't the only one that sees their conclusion as "objectively 'setting the record straight'" majority of their fans and people watching it do. Almost all casual people of the characters who watches the video will see it almost as facts since it's the only battle between the characters that shows real production time.

Well said Nickzambuto.

Superman is only limited by how much sunlight he can absorb. If Superman is at his peak, (Which he is in this battle) he IS undefeatable.

Yeah, and there's the whole he can lobotomize anyone with a look, thing.

The reason Superman is able to be defeated is because he holds back, to prevent himself from killing.

The complaint I have with these death battles, is that Superman would never, ever, ever kill Goku. The only time Superman has killed was to prevent someone from killing someone else. So, if Goku was going to kill a bunch of people (Like General Zod), then Superman would kill him. But, otherwise, Superman would never kill Goku (Let alone destroy the world).

That is the only reason Goku would stand a chance. It also depends on whether or not Chi is magic. This is a weird part, because apparently, its magic in the DCU, but not magic in Dragonball. So who knows whether or not Chi could hurt Superman. This is the problem with pitting two characters from separate universes against each other. The two universes aren't necessarily consistent.

Who did he blitz that was that fast exactly? If you overpower a planetary attack with another and then that attack hits the ground but doesn't destroy the planet you're stand on or flying, what is that?

Would either of you fine gentlemen be willing to put that to the test?

How about a CaV?

I stopped watching death battles after their horrid attempt at Deathstroke vs Deadpool.

Oh my god this thread is filling up my inbox what have I done

I feel they just needed to end that one, so they did. And they reasoned it out as Deathstroke can be killed and Deadpool cannot be killed, so they ultimately had Deadpool win. Was the fight between them very realistic? No. I don't think Deadpool attains the skill level required to kill Deathstroke, so I see a fight between them lasting decades.

Agreed ! But I agree with the out come .

Omnipotent superman FTW!

@naamah_obyzouth: well, Slade doesn't need to kill Deadpool to beat him. Deadpool has been defeated by people like bullseye who slung an arrow into his skull. It essentially knocked him out for a bit.

But the fact that Deadpool won isn't what I am ticked about, it is how much they wanked Deadpool giving him the main spot even popping in repeatedly during Deathstrokes explanation. They made him out of character and overused his teleported like Nightcrawler would. They also gave him a carbonadium sword which is not his standard equipment...

But to keep it kinda on topic, I despise them. They used fanboy arguments on both sides and show no true understanding of any character.

I agree with the outcome, but their explanations, and knowledge on the fight were that of a gorilla trying to unpeel a cucumber.

@cable_extreme: I'm totally stealing that analogy.

@nickzambuto: lol

Superman can lobo someone moving at super speed? I mean it's easy attack a human who isn't moving (Manchester black)

@cable_extreme: My favorite Marvel character is Doctor Doom, and my favorite DC character is Deathstroke, so trust me when I say I was not happy with the outcome of the Deadpool vs Deathstroke battle. I do believe that they do get most of the fights right however. Doctor Doom vs Darth Vader for an example.

@eternal_night71: Shots fired. I repeat shots fired.

@naamah_obyzouth: eh, they do get fights right, but their logic is often extremely flawed. One can tell that they don't really have any actual debate but rather argue with recirculated fanboy assertions.

@cable_extreme: There is no doubt in my mind that Superman would destroy Goku. It's not even a good match up honestly. I am also not someone who loves Superman and hates Goku. I like Superman to a degree, and I am a DBZ fan. I have seen everything Dragon Ball, save for a couple of the movies not attached to the series. I've seen Dragon Ball, DBZ, and GT. I've also seen a handful of the movies, but I am sure I have not seen everything. I have seen Superman do enough seemingly impossible sh*t however to firmly believe that people constantly lowball him on this site. I don't see him losing to some of (most of) the characters that people on CV say he would lose to. I'm sorry, I just don't.

@naamah_obyzouth: I'd disagree, superman's speed is actually recordable and measurable. Goku's people have to use theory scaling which is hardly ever reliable. I don't thing Goku comes close to light speed, and I don't think Akira Toriyama ever intended certain feats like kid Goku (if we use certain theories) traveling multiple times faster than light. I don't think certain things like that were thought about in the manga, but are exploited by hardcore DBZ fans. Another problem with DBZ is the VERY unreliable powers scaling theories. Basically ABC logic at its finest. Arguments like if Master Roshi was able to destroy a moon, then anyone who has a power level above his can as well. Well, I don't agree with that type of argument. I feel there are a lot of flaws when it comes to trying to debate DBZ. For example even though GT is non cannon, why is it that Goku and Vegetas fight with Omega Shenron not destroy the planet? Or in the God Saga, it shows Beerus destroy a small planet with a tap of his finger. How did he not destroy the earth with his blast when sparring Goku? The whole thing with DBZ is that it is very unreliable.

Beerus has total control over his power, as majority of the Characters do. He destroys what he chooses, and he chose to spare earth.

@marshall_long: a single finger tap vs a punch... People would use the logic to say Goku withstands beyond planet busting attacks. So by your logic he was holding WAAAY back against Goku.

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