A clarification on swearing (all please read)

At the risk of sounding antagonistic, I must point out this this is not a case of cooperation to be had. We, as users, do not have any power to defy the rules for whatever reason and warnings/sanctions/punishment nor any power to actually have any impact on if a change to rules will happen (which it won't obviously). Futhermore, even if full a 60% of all users on this forum voice strong opinion that this rule must be removed, it will only be removed at the discretion of those who have power over the forum if they desire the rule gone regardless of anything else. We as users are not cooperating, cooperating is about equality and give and take, it's a democratic endeavor born out of equality.

This is rule and any behavior thereof if just the users of the forum bowing to the rules or suffer sanctions. There is no cooperation and if any attempt is made to defy those rules catches the attention of a moderator. Then her right to remain here will be solely at that discretion with this person having no actual power to contest.

I'm not saying this be adverse as an attack on the moderators, I've never had problems with the moderators myself. But let's call it what it is. This is not cooperation, this is the law saying "These are the rules, abide by them or suffer the consequences"

With this statement, I will respectfully drop this issue on this thread here. I can abide by the rules and find enough contentment as a user still with the forum and also understand that being a mod is not an easy job. But I still I had to voice my position.

Hm I am looking forward to new Image books -REDACTED- Planet by Kelly Sue Deconneck and Southern -REDACTED- by Jason Aaron

So much commotion.

Soooo... i was called out by a mod that a picture of mine was inappropiate because the f-word was in it. This particulair mod commented on my picture without @replying me (so i didn't get a message). Then i got a pm with an 'official warning' without this mod first asking me to remove the picture. I stated my gallery is on the fritz and i can't remove pictures but that the mod was welcome to delete pics he/she deemed unfit. Which hasn't happened to this day, so there goes enforcing the rule.

And i'm interested to see how these rules will work with sexual innuendos for example. After all, it IS a family website and if no cursing is allowed that should probably not be allowed either. While moderators themselves use it as well, for example: http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3335565/

And why do you expect us to follow the rules when the staff upload the images themselves? I'd say if a rule goes for one, a rule should go for all, no? Look at this example with your own discretion: http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-3617660/

BB

@saren said:

So much commotion.

LM*O

If this rule was consistently applied, then I would see no issue although I have yet to come across a flag option for images uploaded onto someone's own gallery @aiden_cross so what happened to you is confusing. Plus, I would think with the huge work-load moderators have on this site, imagery in a user's own gallery (if not loaded onto the forums) should be exempt -- if only because of the impossibility of moderating thousands and thousands of images.

Actually -- since twitter updates also update the status on here (pre-glitch and I assume this is to continue post-glitch), then the no swearing rule would cross over to that arena as well. The activity feed (again, pre-glitch) would be full of twitter updates and are a heck more visible than individual image galleries.

I bring this up since the point of this thread is a reminder of a rule already in place but not very specific of what's allowed and what's not. I appreciate the ambiguity being addressed since I have had one moderator tell me *titties* are okay, and that inappropriate imagery is okay, as long as it was blocked -- etc, etc...

If anything, there's some pretty racy images of the human body which cross the line that I suggest should be more the focus since we are all being encouraged to think of the children. Rightly so.

Two pence and all that.

If only Stephen Fry was a mod for this site. That would be great!

When you privately own something you have EVERY RIGHT to make whatever decision you like. Whether it be genius or stupid, it is your right. The mods work for the owners. They have a job to do whether they or we agree with it or not. The mods should enforce the rules in order to protect their own jobs. I went to the bank i've been going to for over 6yrs. They know me. One day i wanted to make a withdrawal and they asked for ID. My ID was expired by a few days. They know me. My ID still shows a picture of me. But the OWNERS of the bank made a rule that you can't use expired ID's. It irked me. But I can take my business elsewhere if its that important. Same principle applies here. So stop whining about bull$hit and Shut The F*CK up!!

@aiden_cross: Absolutely moderators and staff are subject to the rules as well, though in the case of G-Man it is more the case of using swearing in the context of the site rules, as it relates to comic material (plus I believe that this image was later photoshopped for an article.) I will have a talk with the other moderator though, the moderators are not above the rules

@pooty: Exactly, regardless of my own opinions about swearing I just do as the site's guidelines instruct me to.

@razzatazz: "but the no swearing rule applies not only to text but also to other posted material (including images and videos)." Which is from this thread by you.

"An obvious but often overlooked extension of this rule is that this applies to entire posts, meaning that if you post material (videos or images) with swearing in them, then that also is a violation of this rule." From the official rules thread.

So if comic related swearing is allowed/edited (for an article) or not, then this should be added to the rules. Right now it's rather confusing, and it seems each mod/staff use the rules as guidelines instead of actual rules. So you can't really blame the community if they do the same. Either there are rules and they are enforced by all, or i don't really see the point of having them at all :)

Younger people are important to the site, and as as you are a mother of three, I appreciate your input on this matter. As a comics related site, we do tend to get a fair amount of younger people on this site, and they are welcome here. In the same spirit, we attempt to create a place which is completely free of any harassment of others. In this spirit there needs to be some boundaries. By the site rules, there is no swearing allowed. In my experience as a moderator, this is not so much a reflection of the site's staff being staid and prude martinets, but rather realizing the slippery slope which we operate within on this site. The site also draws in a fair number of trolls, and so if the staff were to rewrite the rules to be "Swearing is fine in a casual sense", then there would be trolls swearing at people, forcing them away from the site, and making it less friendly, thus losing some of our younger members. I think that some moderators approach swearing from this standpoint, that it is ok from a standpoint of being cultural and respectful, but it is still of note that swearing of any sort is against the rules, and any instance of searing on the site can result in some sort of warnings.

In terms of "pretty racy images of the human body", this falls within the same purview, though we are limited in scope to a certain degree. When pornography shows up in google searches, how much power do we have to stop the promotion of pictures with scantily clad people? If it breaches the site rules, then moderators will respond to any and all instances, and if there is never a flag button for obejctionable material, then I urge everyone to contact a moderator to address the material.

@aiden_cross: Sorry I am not a lawyer, and my mind sometimes overlooks loopholes that people that might try to use to circumvent the rules. The site rules should make it clear that posting images is analogous to topics involving illicit drugs. If it is reference to a comic, then it is fine, if it is off topic, then it should stay off site. In that regard though, there is more leeway in terms of swearing, we can discuss swearing as long as we don't swear, but any discussion of illicit drugs will be locked and the poster(s) warned.

As to the enforcement of the rules, I don't really believe in much subterfuge or conspiracy when it comes to my dealings on this site, though my approach is maybe less common among the moderators here. I take no joy in it, but I have banned friends from the site before for breaching site rules, and I treat friends the same as I do all others. If there are moderators that do not behave in this way, then it is likely that they are not acting in the exact interests of this site nor within the exact parameters of their role as moderators, but I do not fault any of them. They are only human after all and all rules are always subject to a certain amount of grey as opposed to being black and white. The staff made the rules (which are black and white) but the moderators have been hand-picked because we are trusted members of the community that have proven that we have the ability to differentiate in the grey areas. At the same time, it is quite likely that the staff realize that the approach of some moderators creates a sort of "happy balance" that for every moderator interpreting the rules in an absolute sense, that there are others with more leeway that balance out the others. That is just conjecture though, I can't properly speak to the intention of the staff in this regard, nor even their opinion of individual moderators, other than to know that they are generally happy with us and the sacrifice of our free time.

@razzatazz: can't be both a lawyer and a scientist :)

So long story short, each moderator interprets the rules differently. Which in my eyes, makes for a slippery slope. And knowing the intention of the staff and knowing and talking about the opinion of each individual moderator is actually what you should do, before enforcing rules.

@aiden_cross: I can't let the attitudes of the other moderators affect how I interpret the rules.

@razzatazz: so ... Theoretically, if you'd decide a post of mine is against the rules and give me a warning, i could go to another moderator and have the warning 'revoked' (for lack of a better word) if he/she finds there's no problem with it?

I am ignoring the bolded part -- I would point it out for what it is, but I suspect it's against the rules to point out the status of a person's mental health on this site. By the way. do please make up your mind? Is it three children or four or ten children? There's only so much room in this shoe for this old lady so....

Respond to what I pointed out -- the twitter feed. How does this rule apply there?

Where is the problem here? I see people seeking clarification -- I didn't even say I disagreed with the rule (not that you were speaking to me) - I generally agree with it.

Moderators don't work for the site -- they volunteer their time.

@aiden_cross: Yes that happens often enough, we do have discussions in the mod forum. We do make mistakes.

@lykopis: I am not sure who many children you have, it is not really relevant to the overall discussion is it? I just appreciated your input as a mother. I have not been through the experience of motherhood yet, but I am sure that it is a life changing condition. If you like though, I give you carte blanche to refer to any issues concerning my mental health. Feel free to air all grievances if you like, I will take the heat for it and defend you against others for contravening site rules. Only this might not be the appropriate thread, as we are supposed to be discussing swearing as it relates to the site.

As for Twitter feeds, yes, we should be responsible for those as well.

I consider myself to work for the site. There is very little other compensation for what I do here other than recognition after all.

@razzatazz: then you should probably respond to that pm you send me about... A month ago? Seeing as the picture you were so worked up over is still in my gallery. Enforcing the rules and all (kids might see!).

I suggest you step away from the computer -- get some fresh air - it does wonders. As for your mental health, that is on you although to pretend I have concern for you would be a lie. I couldn't care less, however, if you are using the forums to push through an agenda of some sort, perhaps you need more than just fresh air but some time away. Oh, and try to not abuse your moderator powers this time? Opening closed threads to address me and then closing it to prevent a public rebuttal is a little annoying.

As for this thread, your response to me just went on and on and on about the swearing -- I have no idea why since I never said I disagreed with the rules. Thank you for the response about the twitter. It was all I was seeking clarification on. Stop responding to me unless it's through PM.

@aiden_cross: Well as discussed above the onus should be on the individual members, I asked for you to remove that picture, but I was unaware that there was a glitch making it impossible for users to do so. Did you report your bug in the bug reporting forum in the interest of resolving this matter?

It's getting sad now...

Oh thanks for the suggestion, but I am barely at the computer anymore. Too busy with real life things (in fact a particularly astute person could probably figure when I am gone and when I will be gone as it follows a certain pattern). I am the first to admit that my activity as moderator has fallen off somewhat from the old days. Though I am happy that others have stepped up :)

I apologize if it seems that I am abusing my moderator powers in any way, I have no interest in any kind of personal vendettas (live and let live, right?) but I simply refuse to address matters which are fictitious in nature. If you want to promote yourselves to others as something that you are not, that is up to you to pursue, and for them to believe. I am not going to be part of the discussion which keeps the fiction alive though, especially as it damages others on an emotional level. In truth though, if I post in closed subjects it is because I do not realize it. Not that I am in the habit of revealing life behind the scene for moderators, but we can always post in any topic, locked or unlocked. Sometimes I do so without realizing the fact that it is locked. In such cases, if I do so then I encourage anyone that feels slighted because of it to confront me directly with a PM and I can clear up any supposed imbalance in application of my moderator abilities, supposed abuses of power included. Again though, these matters don't need to be aired publicly if you do not want, I am willing to address anything that you like in PM.

As to responding to your previous points, I am simply responding to people posting in this thread, seeing as I created it and have a responsibility for the message within. Once again thanks for your input.

Get help. Get help. Get help. And again, stop addressing me in this thread. That's two times now.

Is there an inside joke I'm missing on this convo?

For someone claiming that I am going "on and on" I can't even keep up with your replies.

It sounds like we have a degree of disagreement though on this matter. Most employers will consider "volunteer hours" when recruiting new employees. If I were to have an unpaid internship at a company (which is very similar to volunteering) then it would be offensive to me if a company did not consider that previous employment because I did not get paid. At my heyday of being a moderator here I was spending two to three hours per day, 7 days a week, resolving items for moderation. That has to count for something, I think. If it were relevant I would include my unpaid work here on a resume, and have even considered adding the staff to my LinkedIn account.

Nope.

Ok gladly, I am supposed to be watching the pairs figure skating right now anyway.

Stop talking to me.

THIS IS THREE TIMES NOW.

@lykopis: Yikes...

@razzatazz I had a discussion with a mod about this a few weeks ago about this very thing. I decided not to pursue it at the time but here it is again so I might as well ask. Swearing is unacceptable but swearing with one letter taken out and a * put in its place is ok. According to that Mod.

Is that the rule for Comic Vine?

FOUR TIMES.

@razzatazz: that's odd, since i replied to you in the pm you send me.. And no, i have no interest in having it fixed since i haven't uploaded an image in months now. Pretty much retired actually, until i got an e-mail of a notification of a pm from you. And why exactly is the burden of proof on me?... I stated you're welcome to remove the gallery from my image. I stated that in the pm. You neglected to do so and as such, the image is still there.

@razzatazz: what about todays Podcast? it's full of f-bombs and all manner of swearwords?

@jonny_anonymous: well, apparently the rules don't apply for staff or when it's comic book related. **shrugs**

I think that's still against the rules. You're better off either not swearing at all or censoring the entire word. People will figure it out.

That is within the rules, yes.

I am all for that specially with children on the site but according to the mod it was ok for people to do it. It was over the F-bomb with the u-* out.

Pointless rule. Replacing a letter with a * doesn't really change anything.

....What is going on in this thread? O__o

As always with our personal interactions, it is not exactly your right to demand to be left alone indiscriminately. It is for instance not ok to make assertions and then ask to be left alone, lest it otherwise be construed as harassment, if the assertions run counter to my point. As an example (which did not happen), you could not say that it is ok to swear all the time anywhere on the site, and that if I reply that you asked to be left alone. I am simply trying to clear up any problems with the comprehension of this rule, if you want to stop interaction on this subject, then please show some restraint and stop trying to provoke me please. I have better things to do with my afternoon.

That's what I thought but as we just found out....

I don't make the rules, I just enforce them. Just a point to note, that the swearing in this way still has to be in context. You can't call someone "a "f***ing idiot" for instance (btw that middle word is not "farming")

Dear god, the drama going on in this site is so petty at times.

@razzatazz My concerns relate to the fan-fic section. Though it is rare that I use swearing in my writing, I do use it every once in a while. I use it when I'm trying to convey an emotion, or write in such a way that the people reading my work will recognize the character that is being portrayed. Now granted most of the time it doesn't happen, and rarely is a character (at least in my experience) known for excessive swearing; however, every once in a while the need does arise. In the fanfiction section, I believe there are rules in place that we have a rating system where a fic can be either constituted as "mature" in cases of violence and language. Does that rule still stand?

SIX F*CKING TIMES.You are a moderator, for crap's sake.

How is this not harassment? You come on here, accuse me of being something I am not which has NOTHING to do with this thread and further to that, accuse me of having emotionally abused users on this site. All while after having written this in the same first post to me:

In the same spirit, we attempt to create a place which is completely free of any harassment of others.

I can't even get you to stop. I can't flag you. YOU should show restraint as YOU are the moderator. Ugh -- but of course, like usual, it will be me to be the bigger person. I am done here.