A clarification on swearing (all please read)

@dragonborn_ct said:

No worries, I think all users should be given opportunity to voice there concerns and dissent, CV should be a relaxed mellow place most especially for sincere people who are just being honest. I am sure everyone that knows you is aware you are sincere and sincerely care bout this site's users and whats best for them too.

Talking about matters in the past can be a bit difficult, just because I don't know details, it involves multiple users it sounds like. My best recommendation would be that users contact multiple moderators when it comes to problems. if there are moderators they trust and or know well then they can utilize them but otherwise message 5 or 6 moderators at a time, a cross selection and or utilize the PM all moderators feature. A moderator may make a mistake or overlook something accidentally or misunderstand context so having more of them involved can help ensure better results. Also if a user doesn't agree with a situation or still feels uncomfortable, they should be encouraged to follow up with any moderator or a new moderator just to express concerns. The important thing here though is to not play moderators off each other out of frustration. If the incident you are speaking of still bothers yourself or your friend on any level, I encourage you to create a group PM and include myself and a few other moderators and just talk about what's bothering you and we can see if there is anything we can do to alleviate that worry or concern. Sometimes trolls can chance upon an opportune time to strike and create several troll threads unfortunately, its probable the user you are referring to was banned based on your description.

Its not always just parents either, I'd figure a lot of users come to CV because they want a place thats not - I don't know, 4 Chan? I don't know that site at all so apologies if its reputation is exaggerated, I have used a few other comic websites in my time, some have been a bit more relaxed about rules than CV and posters arguments were more aggressive and employed more vitriolic rhetoric others have been a lot more stricter, and didn't even allow filtered/censored swearing. Oh and it might just be possible that your idea of what these rules are trying to restrict and enforce might not be exactly the same idea as a moderator who has to shift through a flag que as well, thats a possibility right? When I was a user I hardly saw any aggressive users, when I did it was more of a weekly thing, some random user with no profile picture going on a massive racist or sexist tirade. As a moderator though I get to see the seedy underbelly of this site and incidents can be daily occurrences. In the grand scheme of things, a few curse words on a gif ain't that big a deal but rules in their nature have to try and equalize a setting for all its users. Potentially some users at this site could use all manner of swear words, ethnic and racial slurs in an intelligent or harmless manner but a lot more posters can't. Many posters also can't tell the difference in context when plying certain concepts, so rules that seem black and white are required but then again others can know situations can arise that require more discretion.

It was a long time ago, probably some of the posters that defended them/protested for them just didn't know and or believed their side of the story after the fact. Unfortunately people can also lie, exaggerate, or just present skewered versions of what happened, sometimes intentionally sometimes unintentionally. At the same time I have lost two friends who left this site of their own accord in situations I thought proper moderator intervention would have prevented that. Also some situations were users were forced to leave that to my understanding were unfortunate and could have been prevented. No one was really to blame, just timing was off, some misunderstandings, some uncertainty about how to deal with the or a situation with all parties involved.

Oh yeah the recent site updates are frustrating, I can empathize, honestly my personality type, the way I react to change is… not so good. I prefer consistency so when the site changed its format I would actually get minor headaches using it, it was visually disorientating to me. I use love wiki editing but had to give it up for a few months. Also one of my best friends accounts were hacked recently, and just in general I do not like site updates. I still miss my epic wall and how we could see wall posts from the very first one, and the image gallery. I wanted a numbered ordered gallery back heh heh. CV can be frustrating place sometimes heh heh but I don't think there are actual people we can blame, maybe some people a little, i know the tech people do an incredible job when they were forced to try and get this site back up and running after the change over, and that they do a lot for how small they are and issues the face. Other than that its really just a part of life, sometimes things will get frustrating and one has to cope as best they can and focus on the good. Oh hey, the main reason I am actually at CV is similar too, its users and people, and my friends.

Remember again about sending that PM later on as well regrading that incident you allude to if its still bothering you or your friend. Thanks.

@pyrogram said:

I think its alright as it is in the original post. It is expanding the site rules thread to offer more clarification/context, so in a way its being added, that in itself doesn't ensure that they are new however. The site actually has a few sources for rules and conduct, the longer legal stuff one and the more informal adaptable one, so as example adding to the later doesn't automatically mean adding new rules or content.

Hope that helps clarify things.

My apologies, I should have accounted for that you being unaware of this situation specially if I am referring to it in a very indirect manner. If something of that sort happens again, I will do that as you advised.

lol I must certainly don't want Comicvine to 4Chan (Whatever you heard about it, their reputation is certainly negative). I thought the rules already enforced in the site were enough, but seeing from your perspective, I can sorta understand why... With me being still a normal user who doesn't dwell into the many boards outside the off-topic one, I don't face that many problems with these kind of users. I think in your shoes, I would think the same way... In other circumstances, I think feature that warns "mature content below" to tag videos that feature profanity would have being warranted to help users, but on second thought, the updates would cause more trouble than its worth when users could simply write that.

I am sorry to hear about your two friends. I am not sure how it happened since I've only being active in the site, but its best to keep it quiet in this case.

I know they have their best interest in minds and they work very hard for it, but I would appreciate that if they would give a proper warning to everyone and spare a lot of frustration... I now know for a fact that updates take place in Thuesday since the latest upgrades happened in the same day of the week. I don't have too much to add at this point though, but thank you once again SC for treating this resolve amicably and not dismissing my concerns as mere overreaction.

I will reply to you in a instant.

Makes sense. So it's about context.

In the battle forums, scans and clips with swearing are used, but they are used in context, not for the sake of disparaging other users. Therefore, that's fine; or, if there was a thread about the Two Best Friends or Zero Punctuation (Internet personalities who play video games, but swear a lot), posting videos would be okay because of the context of it, similar to the hip hop reference.

Very well.

Certainly.

Okay. But it seems odd, since most users are 16+, not 13-ish.

@jedixman: Basically you are accurate with everything you just said. Lets Plays are fine, they aren't intended to be disruptive or obnoxious, the swearing isn't forced or attention seeking, its organic. If you consider there is a lot of it, best to put some disclaimer to reference that and or put in spoilers.

Its a bit like this websites wiki when can have some adult content but people have to actually go looking for it, and looking for it with some sort of intent. You can't accidentally wind up there. Posters can't opt out of seeing a post or an image or a gif, but they can choose to click on a video or a link off site and so giving them information warning them works there, just like me saying that posters should be warned about Googling Rob Liefeld or Greg Land in Google may result in offensive materials. There is sufficient warning, people have to opt in and actually decide to find those… offensive materials.

I don't know this websites particular age demographics, but I do know that many comic sites actually have a lot of users around the ages of 10, 11, 12, 13. The age of which children become competent with technology is getting younger and younger after all. Oh another factor I forget to mention is international users who may utilize English as a second language. There are many users at this site like yourself and myself that could only break a rule or post offensive material if we tried, regardless of rules, but also many that actually need direction in general simple terms like "no posting material with swearing in it" so on. Hope that covers everything?

@scsaid:

If your posting in a thread thats about hip hop or say your ask thread and you post a link to a song about hip hop that might have cursing, you can put a disclaimer before and after the video/link and or put it in a spoiler, thats fine.

Sound fair enough.

Randomly posting a video in a review or preview thread thats actually a reaction video of some sort with outraged cursing and swearing as a reaction to some sort of news or other poster is what we are trying to cut down on, eliminate and prevent.

Again sounds fair and reasonable. So it seems it's all about context.

I was never a fan of the constant cursing meme's and response video's anyway. :P

Probably half the moderators would prefer the site to allow swearing as well heh heh

^__~

but sometimes its just about enforcing site rules and sometimes those site rules are designed to cater to some people at the potential expense of others.

Oh I feel you. The rules are the rules and whether we like them or not, we either follow them, leave the site, or break them and face whatever consequences that comes with it.

@dccomicsrule2011: Yeah pretty much as well. I mean basically all the users that have posted in this thread so far? Not the sort of posters I imagine going on threads about Superman's powers or a staff review and posting a video, meme or gif with excessive swearing to make some sort of juvenile point, or disrupt the actual conversation with strong harsh reactions. Those sorts of actions are being discouraged. Basically if a user feels they are conscientious, mature, aware that some children and parents and other general users prefer a friendly natured forum devoid of swearing and respectful of others, I doubt they will find themselves in trouble, maybe a light warning if they mistakenly link to content that they had not checked first or something but yeah. Oh and cheers.

Fair enough. As I said: I don't care about personally posting swears, because I don't swear. I just like to post certain videos, like the LPs. So essentially, it's about the willingness to see content; if you click on the video, they want to see it. They aren't accidentally seeing something (obviously, graphic sexual content or something of that nature is not the same thing).

... I can't tell if you meant that as a joke or not, but I'm laughing anyway.

Understood. Long as I can share my TBFP and Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation) videos, I'm happy.

Just to be clear, is sl☠t considered swearing on here?

Not a word I use, so just checking.

So what's the deal in posting a scan that has swearing in if you need to use the scan for a battle forum debate? Do we get banned for using scans in battle forum debates now?

@sc: When did you become a mod? Feels like yesterday I talked to you when you had a few hundred posts.

What has been added is not the no swearing rule, but rather the clarification that the rule extends beyond text.

I think whether or not swearing should be allowed is not really relevant. It is in the site rules and always has been and not determined by me. Mine own personal thoughts on swearing are twofold:

1. The coolest character from fiction never swear and they sound awesome.

2. If you swear all the time what do you say when you are really upset or really want to make a point? I almost never swear in RL but when I do people know that something is different than usual.

Regardless of those thoughts, we have decided between the staff and moderators how to apply this rule, and we do allow some leeway. It can be considered similar to discussions related to drugs (conveniently also outlined in the site rules). In this case if you want to create a discussion about for instance the amount that certain characters swear then it is fine.

Also as it has been mentioned a few times, what goes on in the background is not always what it seems like. We go to great lengths, sometimes extremes to keep the trolls off this site. That we do not always succeed is not due to a lack of effort nor that we are given the right resources, but that trolls can be persistent beyond reason.

eh

I wouldn't call that swearing so much as a slur. I suppose it depends on how it's used.

Comic books started as a medium marketed for children, so I can appreciate not wanting to alienate young Viners or their parents. However, there are images from mature reader comics and issues of sexuality, graphic violence, and language that fans should be free to discuss; are forums designated as "adults only" or for mature conversation a logistic possibility?

I don't understand why people are worked up over this, I'd rather censor "F*#king C*nt" then have my child say it because they saw it on the Internet while looking for information on Batman.

@lvenger said:

Edit the swearing out you fu..... funny man, you.

That's unacceptable? Wtf (why the fuss)? This site is getting too PG.

Yeah, when it comes to rape, if you're throwing the term around like it's nothing in the battle forums, you're going to get warned for it. Find another way to say that somebody else wins.

I mean, I'm totally fine with accepting a non swearing rule in Comicvine posts but when it comes to images, you might need to post them for evidence to support your case and when that can get you into trouble for breaking the rules, I gotta say, I'm not a fan of it at all. I mean, there aren't too many battle forum scans which have swearing in them but there could be for some characters.

Fug.

It's so commonly used in the battle forum.

No, if the scans themselves used in proper context and for a purpose, you will not be pestered about it. The entire clarification regarding the images is primarily isolated around pointless memes that have a sole purpose of being disruptive and they really don't have a place on the forums. A scan is beneficial to many users, particularly in the battle forums, and in the worst case scenario, just toss the scan into a spoiler tag with fair warning.

It used to be yeah and while we haven't exactly cracked down on it and I don't find it necessary to give someone a flatout warning, we do ask users to choose alternative phrasing due to the typical context and nature behind the word.

@deranged_midget: Well, it's news to me. I'll do my part.

@awesam: Thank you, it is much appreciated :)

That's what I usually do anyway. Still thanks for the clarification on this role mate, it's much appreciated. The way you've expressed this role makes it much more acceptable to follow.

So if it is about context. And say I am doing a review am I able to use clips that might have violence and swears in? It's not like I am pointlessly posting them in the context of a review.

If people are able to use comic scans within a debate with swears then the same should apply in the context of reviews. Correct?

Yeah, that's all good dude. Heck, even animated films like JL War have "excessive" violence and some odd language here and there. But again, it's context right. If the video is applicable to your review, say gameplay or a trailer for a movie, go for it.

Glad I could help :)

Ah okay. It just seems to be a crackdown on people who randomly post memes that go against the site rules right?

What about posting songs in the "what are you listening to right now?" thread?

Pretty much a re-clarification about the memes and general content yeah!

Well, that's applicable to the topic thread isn't it? Worst case scenario, toss it in a spoiler tag if it's super excessive.

Ah okay. Thanks. Just wanting to clarify things as all.

Hey, no worries dude! :)

:)

Am I aloud to talk about Kelly Sue Deconnick's upcoming book at Image and am I aloud to post scans of the covers?

I think it should be allowed in scans and videos but whatever. What if you use *'s to bleep out some of the letters?

@nothing2lose said:

Great points!

I think there are two simple and general ways to think about comics that carry mature themes, you can have The Sandman type of mature theme or The Boys type of mature theme. I love both these comic series, chances are posters discussing Sandman comics won't really encounter many problems, since its mature subjects tended to be depicted maturely, its usually a bit more "less is more", its not overly gratuitous, and most people interested in it tend to be mature themselves. The Boys on the other hand, one day I wish to actually create a few conversions and blogs on, The Boys is intended to be gratuitous, and blatant and shocking and more is more is more is more. That being said mature posters should still be able to talk about it and discuss it.

Even if they can't post certain images they can still reference them. In a loose sort of comparison its a bit like most newspapers. Newspapers cover all sorts of tragedies, incidents, industries, subjects including sex, pornography, self harm, murder, but (usually) a mature tone is required. That and often actual text can go into more detail than the content of images they include. Even if they are covering incidents where one could google more horrifying and graphic imagery related to. So posters who wish to discuss mature themes and mature comics should feel free to, just exercise some discretion. Oh unless I am missing your point and you were thinking about something that might be more specific and adult themed that is harder to be more subtle about? If you wish to be more frank feel free to send a PM to myself or any other moderator. We can inquire about the possibility of areas for more mature conversations and discussion, I'd guess it would be a no though. There is this thread as well which is for that kind of suggestion.

Sure thats fine, assuming you are referring to "Bitch Planet" but think about it like the character Nightwing, there is a difference between some users sincerely talking about Dick Grayson and the occasional poster that likes to show up in a random thread and start talking about the possibilities of a comic where "Nightwing" jumps into caves, enters tunnels, about how this other character loves "Nightwing" loves "Nightwing" so so much, is really obsessed with "Nightwing" or just repeats Dick ten times in a row. So if some random poster decides to and abuse the comic title for whatever reason they will probably get a warning of some sorts, but posters being sincere and respectful over the title will not.

@comicdude23 said:

Many years and decades my friend… or uh more accurately about 6 or 7 months? About that.

One of you mods should make a list (Off-Site) and upload it to photobucket or imgur,etc to show all the banned words and if they can be used like: Sh*t,Shit,Sh!%,S%$T,etc for clarification.

I knew this was a rule when I first joined, so I have no problem with it. I'm actually glad I have something to reffer to.

I am posting here only to voice my strong disapproval of this rule, any implementation thereof of the rule in any iteration whatsoever except to enforce civility between users. I find any resistance to swearing under pretense of this being a "kid-friendly" site ludicrous, at best misguided.

I know my voicing this opinion will have no impact on the site. But I will voice it and encourage all users who share my position to post here and state this opinion clearly.

I thought that you didn't have to censor sh!t.

lol Someone has clearly never read the rules.

Dude, this rule isn't new. It's been in place since CV started.

If you're representing the scan in proper context and not in a manner which is used to attack or insult another user, I don't find that it's too big of a deal. I already tackled the topic with videos above if you're interested with that.

Your point? I've been against it from the start. Swearing should not be banned in the forum unless it is specifically being targeted against another user to disrespect him or to voice discriminatory, unacceptable comments.

I understand that you're against it, you've made that pretty clear. You aren't the only one who has voiced this opinion dude and I doubt you'll be the last. See, my "job" as a moderator here is to help and communicate with the community itself. Speaking for myself obviously, I tend to be lenient towards certain things and I won't generally jump at the opportunity to warn someone in regards to this rule when considering the context. The terminology I jump at the most is f-bombs. In most cases, people just censor out other swear words (if used appropriately) and I typically don't make any advances towards that.

So truthfully, and since I can't speak for all the moderators here, I think it's fair to say that leniency can be had here. All I ask is that, as a community, we can all respectfully cooperate together on this front.

Time to channel my inner BSG nerd.