4th Edition

Anyone got the new D&D books and been shocked by the massive amounts of changes?

I have them (picked the up Saturday).

There are some major changes - like the old style spells for spellcasters disappearing and the like.

Systems looks slick but the truth will come out in the playing.

I love the new system!

Yeah, the thing that stuck out to me is how they changed the alignment system. The "epic Destiny" thing feels very halfassed, and I can't seem to find any feats for making an unarmed combatant. Also, where are my Half-Orcs?! I don't wanna play some dumb lizard. Give me a Half-Orc, or better yer, gimme a full Orc!

Just my gripes, though. I'm looking forward to playing.

IT SUCKS!!!!!!!   They F***ed up the alignment system.  They removed challenge ratings.  And How in the hells are Yugoloths supposed to be demons when Yugoloths created demons?  And the whole concept of a astral diamond is just really really lame.  Oh and they slaughtered the great wheel, I liked the happy hunting grounds, and those damned b@$t@rd$ took it away. 

Sucks, it destroyed the alignment system.  *so now law and chaos don't matter anymore?*, They went towards Warcraft rather than Tolkien and Lovecraft and quite frankly Warcraft is overall inferior to either.    The fighter becomes even more useless seeing as how the wizard can just spam fire ball after fire ball after fire ball.    The Monk, Sorcerer, Bard, Druid, and Barbarian classes are deleted.   The great wheel, a major part of the D&D cosmology for eternity, was slaughtered.  I liked the happy hunting grounds, so when I get to WOTC, heads will roll.   

Also long time fans that have kept D&D running during the worst of the religious fanatics attacks are all being trampled upon and ignored, without any sort of compromise.   Triple health at first level?  Spells overpowered.   Removal of practically everything that made D&D more original, such as tearing down the blood war between Demons and Devils, dumbing down the intelligence of dragons, and reducing everything to nothing more than the PC's punching bag.

I wont be playing it. Players have too much invested in 3.5 to waste any more money on a totally new system. I'm not trading in over a thousand dollars worth of books for a new core rules set. I really doubt that they'll stop producing 3.5 books either, not enough people will make the switch. 3.5 worked because it was similar enough to 3rd edition that rules could be fudged. Third edition worked because nobody was playing second edition anymore, the game had almost died out. D&D is too popular for such a drastic rules change, this will most likely be more of an "AD&D vs basic" thing.

GURPS is better anyway...

I can only see two positives to the financial train wreck that will soon hit the table top gaming industry in the face like the fist of an angry god that is 4th edition.    The far realm is a official part of the cosmology *though technically it always was*, and asmodeus has finally become a god.    More negatives, End of human dominance, There never was human dominance to begin with.  

2.Cancellation of the World of Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms campaign settings.   Seriously WOTC, What the f***ing hell were you smoking & or drinking when you made that decision, Those where the two most popular campaign settings, ever. 

3.They pretty much insulted the creators of the past editions, the people who played and bought them, and those who had previously marketed them in their advertisements saying that everything about them was lame and playing it made you lame. 

4. Measurement is no longer counted in even feet, only squares and hexagons!!!!  HOW GOD DAMNED LAZY ARE YOU PEOPLE!!! MULTIPLYING OR DIVIDING BY FIVES IS SOMETHING A EIGHT YEAR OLD COULD DO!!!!! 

5. You now practically have to buy battle mats and miniatures.

6.Cancellation of the magazines Dungeon, and the other one called Dragon.  >.< 

7.Internet connection is basically required to play.  

8. we have to abandon our old campaigns as conversion is impossible. 

9. Using MMORPG terms is just really really lame.  A beholder turns from a 13 hit dice abberation to a level 13 elite artillery?  Thats just really really dumb, 

10. The types of creature are all gone, No More Animal, Outsider, Elemental, Magical Beast, Vermin, Ooze, Dragon, Undead, Monstrous Humanoid, Humanoid, Giant, Plant, Or Construct.  

I got lots more.

"I wont be playing it. Players have too much invested in 3.5 to waste any more money on a totally new system. I'm not trading in over a thousand dollars worth of books for a new core rules set. I really doubt that they'll stop producing 3.5 books either, not enough people will make the switch. 3.5 worked because it was similar enough to 3rd edition that rules could be fudged. Third edition worked because nobody was playing second edition anymore, the game had almost died out. D&D is too popular for such a drastic rules change, this will most likely be more of an "AD&D vs basic" thing.

GURPS is better anyway...
"

4th Edition was the last edition that the late great Gary Gygax had an dealings in. He wanted to simplify truncated rules and bring the game back to what it was meant to be. A game based around the imaginations of its players and not its creators. I for one have already begun to embrace the new system in my gaming. I have started running games at my house to test the system and make a new friend in it.

As far as whether or not they will quit printing 3.5 books that is a serious yes. They have no reason to continue to push an old system. I for one had a hard time bridging from 2nd to 3rd and then 3.5, but it ended up being for good. 4th edition is just the evolution and as many other game distributors before they look forward and not back. even if it does not meet the old school gamers the way they hope in some areas it is already drawing in new throngs of interested players.

D&D 4th Edition will be a good step towards the new frontier of gaming and a very welcome one in my home.

D&D Gamer - 15 Years
White Wolf Gamer - 6 years
Other Gamer - 20 years

I played AD&D 2nd Addition at a Comics and RPG convention, hosted by the RPGA, once for about 15 minutes before the tables got reorganized and I ended up playing a full Alternity campaign, which was in a norse mythology setting. I've read up on almost every RPG system, GURPS, Fuzion, Alternity, all the D&Ds, even FF Tactics, etc. I just love the systematic-ness of RPGs especially Pen and Paper RPGs. I learned about 4th ed. on Saturday while window shopping @ B&N. I like the Epic destiny thing but didn't look into it too much. I also noticed a new race too. To me it all looks interesting. . . .that's all I wanted to say. (^_^)

I don't like how there are only four different options as Epic Destinies, and all kind of blow.

Also, no unarmed combat feats. What gives??