Can someone convince me?

I'm just not convinced that this guy is smarter than Doom, Stark, Pym, or Banner. I'm not a comic book guru, but I have seen more scans of feats for these guys and only one for Reed. He seems really bland too.

Can someone show me why he is so smart, because I currently think that Doom is the smartest man on Earth. I need scans or something!

I. If Doom is the smartest why can't he beat Reed?

Arrogant? Well that makes him pretty dumb to me. To underestimate his opponents and give them an opportunity to strike since he "knows" they can't possibly beat DOOM. Then, he does lose... like always.

He won't learn his lesson to not underestimate Reed, again thats dumb to me.

II. Reed told DOOM I mean... Victor that his formula (I forgot which) was wrong and that he should "double check" his math. What did Victor do? He didn't listen with his pompous self and uses the formula that scars his face forever. Does he learn from his mistake? NOPE. He blames Reed for tampering/changing/ruining the formula.

I mean DOOM never makes a mistake.

III. Why does DOOM try to steal from Reed all the time? He's smarter why does he need to steal from his inferior rival?

IV. What makes Doom smarter than Reed in the 1st place?

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He's a lazy egotistical man? That doesn't make him dumb. And he goes against four frickin' people... sometimes more than that! And he's still pulled off more amazing stuff than Reed, to my knowledge.

That's like saying that since Banner is Hulk, he is dumb (which a lot of people seem to think) when he's actually the third smartest man alive.

To me, Reed's all talk. And the few scans I've seen of him being smart are boring, unlike Doom, Banner, and Stark.

I need scans or something.

Also, Maker (Ultimate Reed, the villain) was a big threat towards the Ultimates, but nothing compared to Doom's threat in 616.

This leads me to think that if things were switched around, with Reed being the bad guy and Doom being the good guy, Reed wouldn't even come remotely close like Doom does (and Doom has won before).

Once again, I need scans, because this guy seems like a nerd rather than a super-genius.

Show me a scan where Reed looks superior to Doom intellectually, because the argument of "Doom never wins" or "Doom's gotta' ego" isn't valid; one-on-one, Mr. Fantastic vs Doom, I think Doom would win.

Hell, I've seen more smarts from Banner than Richards.

@kramotz: If I can find the scans I will show you but, Reed told Doom.

"hey you made an error here."

and Doom didn't listen then BOOM he is forever scarred.

Reed beat Doom on figuring out a formula.

Reed meet over 100 of his alternate universe versions of himself who all killed their version of Doom.

Doom is "lazy" is a poor argument for me compared to the fact that Doom has never defeat Reed.

I'll try to find more or "it" later.

Lastly Reed is a Nerd.

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@yung_ancient_one: I really appreciate the scans. They at least show me something. I still would like more though, as I am not fully convinced yet. They defeated Doom; that doesn't mean that they're smarter than him.

By that logic, Thor would be smarter than Tony.

I don't know if Reed is necessarily smarter than Doom - they both have some impressive feats to their science. Reed has his CAP robot and Doom stole the power of SS and Beyonder.

Pretty much this. Though I think Doom is slightly superior because he knows magic(which is technically a science that is unknown to man). Doom always loses cause he is arrogant. The Fact that he only loses because of said arrogance kinda proves my point.

@kramotz: you need to learn for yourself

Reed is most likely as far as fictional characters go, more intelligent than Dr Doom. It should be written this way otherwise it reflects badly on Doom. Reed impedes Doom's plans and plots more often than Doom succeeds in spite of Doom being the one making the first move and being aware that Reed is a factor that he has to plan for and around, he has time on his side, and yet Reed on the defensive, with less time, still often outmaneuvers Victor. Doom probably has more knowledge, resources, charisma as well, he is probably a better debater and politician, but the reason he should be so bitter and antagonistic towards Reed is because despite having all those advantages over Reed, he probably realizes that intellectually head to head he comes up short and that really really pisses him off in ways that can only manifest themselves in a deep seething inner rage. Would also explain how Doom can never really tend to be happy, unless he beats Reed - but not just beats Reed - but proves to Reed, proves to himself, proves to everyone that he is intellectually superior. Except and this is the funny thing about some types of intelligent people, I mean Doom's inferiority/superiority complex and his inability to to use his intelligence and reason to accept who he is and be okay and comfortable within his own skin. Except its Doom, you can have very intelligent, extraordinarily intelligent people who aren't that reasonable and or harbor inferiority/superiority complexes. Doom holds so much resentment towards Reed because Reed doesn't even seem to care that he is considered by many to be the most intelligent - why isn't he more proud, why isn't he more assured and boastful of his intellectual capacity and intellectual power?

Sometimes Doom may even trick himself by pointing at this as a sign Reed isn't really as intelligent as people think he is... since to Doom intelligent people are superior people and if Reed was really more intelligent than Doom he would act more like Doom. This can sate Doom's mind for bits and pieces but like anyone with an inferiority complex Doom will feel the wedge of insecurity creep into his mind and he gets paranoid and frustrated and he looks for ways to impose his will, to prove his superiority because if he can't prove his intellectual superiority, demonstrating other types of superiority make for a great past time. Reed on the other hand doesn't really care so much about perceptions as far as intelligence, he just knows he is intelligent, is grateful and tries to put it to use to help sate his science lust and sate his curiosity as far as exploration and discovery.

Then again its arguable that Doom is more intelligent but for various reasons foils himself by some other deficiency, or because of some symbiotic relationship and connection he has with Reed, because its a patten, or its a dual that he wishes will continue over and over again with neither him or Reed ever getting too far of the other and Doom's psychology depends on Reed and adversity, even to the extent he will lose in order to maintain that balance. I offer no scans, but I have an IQ of 450012 and I am a robot made out of the brains of 901st centuries greatest sciencomputers and when I sneeze I invent new types of audio physics. My pet rock is also the Head of WoMensa the intelligence organization that eventually usurps Mensa in 2 Billion ad - so my opinion is more valid than 34 comic scans.

He was actually consulted as the fifth dentist, you know, the one who did not recommend chewing Trident. I am paraphrasing, but believe he said 'It is chewing gum for crying out loud- NO, it's not good for your teeth'.

That's like a kinda smart thing to say, don't you think?

I. Good argument (Tony VS Thor)

II. I can't seem to find the scans but I did find a video where it shows the scans but not the talk bubbles.

He says it thought

Reed tried to warn him or his miscalculations

@yung_ancient_one: Everyone says that; "Reed told Doom about his miscalculations." That means nothing. That could happen to any arrogant person. A "nerd" could tell a "super-genius" and error in his equation, but the super-genius, being arrogant, would ignore the nerd.

That doesn't mean that the nerd is smarter than the super-genius. Reed is a full-blown nerd; smarts came naturally to Victor.

Reed doesn't even look smart, nor does he talk smart as most super-geniuses, so he's not that convincing (this is just my opinion though).

All you really need to do is read a little Fantastic Four. Reed constantly shows off his amazing intellect. He is always working on something, always creating new machines and technology and always trying to figure out the science of the universe. He is able to outwit other super-geniuses on a regular basis and always seems to think of something that no one else has. He has repeatedly shown the ability to create devices with little to no preparation time and succeed. I mean, recently he created a weapon in no time at all that killed a Celestial in one shot (and that was 616 Reed, proving to be even smarter than all his other counterparts in the multiverse).

He is always referred to as the smartest man in Marvel by other characters, from other geniuses to cosmic beings. When the SHTF, the Avengers call Reed.

Not only does he continually beat Doom, he does so on the defensive (as SC said). But, it is generally shown that they are evenly matched when it comes to intelligence overall.

So... you've pretty much said that Reed's brilliant and all... but he is intellectually equal to Doom.

Heck, Peter Parker has the potential to rival this man... I think Doom is number 1.

And I still haven't seen anything that has outright said that "Reed is smarter than Doom" or vice versa. All I've seen is that Reed is called the 'smartest man in the world' by a mass majority of people in Marvel who probably don't even know Doom's feats.

@kramotz: I think you should probably read some Fantastic Four books if you really think Peter Parker even compares. It doesn't seem to me you actually know anything about Doom or Reed outside of other titles they may have appeared in.

I hope your not saying that because I said that "Peter Parker has the potential to rival this man," because Reed said that himself.

And... that's why I made this thread - to learn more about them. :p

I'm simply don't believe he's truly the smartest. Maybe the most innovative, but not the smartest.

@kramotz: I don't know what to say really...

It wasn't simply a nerd telling someone arrogant about an error. It was an error spotted by Reed that Doom didn't catch. Reed noticed a miscalculation and Doom did not. Plus every alternate Universe version of Reed has killed Doom (well at least in that one story.)

having "potential" to rival someone doesn't mean they already do rival them. Parker could be one of the top 10 smartest men in Marvel but he spends most of his time crime fighting instead of advancing in science.

For me personally being arrogant is dumb because it is a stupid mistake to make. Reed verified with Scott Lang about his current disease because he understands he is Human; thus he can make a human error. Doom thinks to think he isn't vulnerable to human errors and that's his biggest one.

Doom has said Reed was his equal but has lost to him several times. Other people have posted good examples or reasons why Reed is smarter but you seem to not care or just avoid it completely. Because when SHTF they do call Reed.

With all due respect... I truthfully think this boils down to fanboyism. I feel like you think Reed is Lame but Doom is cool so you feel like Doom is smarter because he's more appealing to you. At the end of the day that's fine because Doom will keep on losing to Reed and nothing can change the fact that he has already lost several times.

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Tony Stark, by his own admission, is not as smart as Reed Richards

Also there is the whole Fantastic Four 552 where a future version of Dr. Doom comes back to current time to stop Reed Richard from executing Plan no 101, which apparently Reed succeeds in the future. Plan no 101 being solve everything.

@kramotz: Like someone said, that's potential, not actual. They try to give Spidey a boost in intelligence every now and then (which I think is a good think). I recall once that Reed told Peter he was as smart as he was at his age. Peter has potential and he's very smart, be he doesn't make the already established top eight smartest heroes on earth.

Reed Richards is useless.

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@yung_ancient_one: @jloneblackheart: Firstly, I'm not really a Doom fanboy. I mean, I like the guy and all, but he's getting old... very old (rarely changes style or anything for that matter). Right now, Ultron's kinda' my favorite villain. Doom would be... if he changes something (appearance, morals, anything).

And about Peter: I think he could be in the top 10 smartest men. He's gotten critical acclaim for his intelligence, and Hank Pym, arguably the 4 smartest man (Banner is smarter), said Peter was smarter than him (even if it was a self-defeating statement). In all honesty, I think the point of Superior is to give him the nudge, because, as SpOck, he's pulling out some cool feats.

Back on topic: Since when does winning mean you're smarter? Once again, by that logic, Thor is smarter than Tony. And to further rebuke this, Doom goes against more people, further using his mind to find ways to get the rest of the F4 out of his way. Reed has top-notch resources and amazing teammates. I'd bet anything that Banner could beat Doom with ALL of Reed's resources.

I'm just arguing that the "smartest man in the world" just doesn't fit Reed. If he's so smart, Marvel needs to start making him pull off more wow/jaw dropping feats.

@billy_batson: I agree with what you said, rather it be a joke or not. The guy just walks around and flaunts the title of 'smartest man', and it's getting on my nerves. A string of quick feats and a few celestial feats means nothing.

@kramotz:

I was referring to this :p http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ReedRichardsIsUseless

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@kramotz: it just seems like you dislike Reed to me. I could go and spend a ton of time scanning stuff, but I don't think it would make a difference. Lots of people don't like him so I'm not surprised.

The thing is, is that most that don't like him won't read him, so they will never really understand. His true power is his intelligence, not his elasticity. He is generally the reason the FF wins against villains, either by his inventions or tactics and is regarded by most all heroes in continuity and out to be the smartest hero out there, whether you think he is or not.

Also, killing a Celestial is a pretty jaw dropping feat if you ask me.

I don't; but it's not because I'm a Doom fanboy or anything. And I understand that he is the main reason of the F4's wins, and that his main power is his intellect, but I don't think he's the smartest, and if he somehow is... Doom and Banner are right up his ***.

It's just that Marvel made him the "smartest man", but he doesn't really fit the mold, which is why so many people hate/don't like him, IMO. This is what's pissing me off.

I think this is why Banner is being pushed so hard. Banner has put people in their place already intellectually, and I think it's time he does the same with Richards.

I remember in FF the alternate reality Reeds that weren't nearly as amoral as 616 Reeds all thought Doom was a joke, because of how many different version of Doom they defeated so easily. They had 616 doom collared and helpless pretty soon to, and he ended up getting saved by Reed.

@teerack: Someone already said something like that, and I said "By that logic, Thor is smarter than Tony." It all depends on the fight. Was Doom allowed prep, or was it a one-sided prep in favor of Reeds? Did Doom have adequate resources, compared to the Reeds, who each had Infinity Gauntlets? That fight could have been as one-sided as Doomsday fighting Bat-Mite.

@kramotz: probably won't and definitely shouldn't. Banner is just not as smart. In the gamma field, probably. Anywhere else, not really.

@jloneblackheart: Well, you can say that he isn't as smart (since we are all entitled to our opinion), but saying that he isn't the third smartest man on the planet is borderline ludicrous (Marvel is making it obvious he is smarter than Pym and Tony).

And don't be surprised if he put's Mr. "Smartest Man in the World" in his place... he's already outsmarted Doom.

Plus, Reed needs a lesson from Banner. With Tony, he told him that, "A real scientist broadens his horizon, and isn't afraid to delve into new things," or something like that, and some other stuff. With Reed, he might say something like "You're selfish; you're one of the smartest men on the planet, yet, with all of your smarts, you only apply yourself to science, completely forgetting about what you could do for this world." Yup, I think I hit the nail right on the head with that one.

@kramotz: yes hes very selfish, saving the world hundreds of times over.

@jloneblackheart: Saving the world and making the world a better place are two whole different things. If Reed put time into matters that could make the world better, he could've been cured viruses and diseases like cancer and AIDs. But he prefers to travel to cosmic clouds which genetically mutates him and his friends. Nope, not selfish at all.

@kramotz: Did you look at that article Billy Batson posted? Neither Reed nor Bruce or anyone else is ever goin to do those things in comics. To do so would take any of the realism from the comics that keep us as humans connected to their world. If Tony and Reed and Banner start handing out their advanced and alien technology, the Earth in comics would look like it was thousands of years advanced and we would lose that reality.

I agree, and that does kind of explain their "selfishness" now that I think about it, but Reed still doesn't seem like the smartest guy. He beat a celestial? Woohoo! Squirrel Girl did that! I say he either gets more advanced feats that require superior intellect or he stops flaunting the title of "smartest man" around.

I also see no one has any scans either, that REALLY show that he is the smartest. Most scans I've seen just show that he is a smart man.

@kramotz: Squirrel Girl also beat Doom. And Thanos. She would trash the Hulk too. Not that great of an example.

Nah, it's not a great example... even if Doom has not only beaten celestials and omnipotent beings... but STOLE THEIR POWERS... nope, not a great example at all.

@kramotz: Doom is a good example. Using Squirrel Girl isn't. I don't know that she ever beat a Celestial, but I wouldn't doubt it. That's her thing: she beats anyone. Just like it's Reed's thing: he's the smartest.

You use Doom as the example that Reed is not as smart as him, but you forget that Doom is smarter than all the others you are comparing Reed to, like Banner. Even if you could for sure prove Doom is smarter than Reed, that doesn't mean he is not as smart as Banner or Pym, etc.

Your forgetting... well... everything. I, for one, said that Banner was the third smartest. I said that if Banner was in Reed's position, he could probably beat Doom. My point in that was winning doesn't equal being smarter than your opponent (even though, IMO, Banner is equal to Doom). And with SG, I used her to say that beating celestials can be done by anyone with enough powers or skill.

And the second paragraph makes no sense, at all. I'm just trying to say that Reed isn't the smartest, and I'm using Doom as an example because... I feel Doom is smarter. I never said that Reed wasn't smarter than Pym or Banner. But, to be honest, I think Banner is equal, but no one here is going to agree with me, so I tend to keep that opinion to myself. I say that Reed is like the 2nd smartest along with Banner.

Now you're just going to shoot me down and say something like "you obvioulsy don't read blahblahblah." Go on... shoot me.

@kramotz: I don't feel like I've been rude at any point in our discussion.

I know you said Banner was the third smartest. He very well could be. I'd probably put Pym ahead of him though, making him #4. I also understand that beating someone doesn't make you smarter. Reed consistently beats Doom. Banner totally punked Doom recently, leaving him nearly mentally impaired (Reed actually had to restore his intelligence through Valeria's insistance).

You can't use Squirrel Girl as an example like that. If every person SG has beaten were to be considered a pushover, Marvel wouldn't have many big threats, now would it? She is basically able to defeat someone far beyond her own abilities. She is a joke character. Because she can beat Thanos doesn't mean any street level hero can do it or that beating Thanos isn't an amazing feat. She beats people single-handedly that usually requires teams of heroes in a massive event.

You can feel like Doom is smarter, but that has never been shown. If anything, they are shown to be equals or Reed having a slight edge. This isn't my opinion. This is in the comics for all to read. Just like Reed being smarter than Banner or Pym. It's been repeated for years in tons of books, Fantastic Four, Avengers, X-Men... you name it. I really don't know how to convince you of this besides telling you to read more comics. It's all over. It's generally accepted: Reed is the smartest. That's his gig. If he wasn't the smartest, he'd just be the stretchy guy -- and go ask DC how seriously the stretchy guy is taken.

I just hate it that people think Doom is less smarter because he is egotistical. That makes no sense. He is, IMO, smarter, but limits himself. If he got rid of his ego, in 616 and in those alternate universes, he would be the one with the Infinity Gauntlet visiting his 616 counterpart.

I understand what you said too. Without his intellect, Reed would be another stretch guy, but my problem is that 1. I don't even think he's the smartest 2. He doesn't have enough feats for the 'smartest man in the world', and 3. He just doesn't fit the mold.

@kramotz: I think generally that most people understand that his intelligence is hindered by is ego and his selfish desires.

I will say that the less moral Reed from the alternate universe punked Doom really bad, using those flaws against him. He had no Infinity Gauntlet, and if he did, it wouldn't have worked anyway since it only works in it's native universe. It should be interesting coming up since Doom does have an Infinity Gauntlet of his own following that arc. I'll have to find out from someone else though. As long as Fraction is writing, I'm not reading.

Uh...no. Considering Doom was briefed by the FF and they spend a a whole day brain storming with other super villains... Doom did have time to prep, but he let his own arrogance(arrogance is a form of stupidity no other way around that.) blind him and he completely wasted his element of surprise because he never thinks he's going to lose dispute the fact he never wins. And the Reeds I'm talking about had one Infinity Gauntlet that they didn't use on Doom and was useless anyway because it wasn't in the right universe.

In fact that entire plot was all focused around the idea that everyone knew Doom would lose and it would allow him to be in a position to where he could stall, and save the day.

Trying to say Thor beating Tony makes him smarted is a really horrible comparison, considering in this case Doom was fighting a Reed with no powers making him the Thor in the situation.

That all aside I think Yung ANcient One's example more then prove Reed is the smartest anyway.

"Trying to say Thor being Tony..."

Firstly, the quote of yours above made no sense.

Second, I was just asking questions, man.

@kramotz: being should have been beating.

I saw it and thought "probably a typo." It happens to me, and I see it a lot online. I'm done with the subject. However, again I say, nothing will change the fact that Doom has lost to Reed several times, and probably always will lose. XP

Other people have posted good examples or reasons why Reed is smarter but you seem to not care or just avoid it completely.

I mean there's a scan of Reed always making cosmic cubes.

Now Good Day gentlemen it has been fun reading everyone's post. PEACE

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Later.