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#51 Posted by w0nd (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

im fine acknowledging the heavy hitters, its just when i read issues of siege where some random mutated accident freaks almost kill him in the middle of a field by blasting him, he seems kind of....well....yeah

I am not saying he is by any means weak but a punch to the face by iron patriot? It's degrading. I think it's because the heavy hitters powers go up and down frequently. You don't know what hulk you're going to get, you don't know how powered up thor will be. When I read superman (lately) I know just how strong he is, and his powers will either be the way they were last issue, or miscalculated and it turns out he was stronger. With hulk it's more like..."it is tuesday, and banner had hot chocolate before bed so he is less moody, and his emotions were in sync sooooo hulk will be smarter but lacks in strength now"

#52 Posted by Bezza (3257 posts) - - Show Bio

@omega_man_ said:

@peppeyhare: It's Superman #17 he did that feat, he hit H'el that hard it shook the planet itself and the watchtower which is in space. The punch wasn't even aimed at the planet it was aimed at H'el yet they felt the shock waves imagine what would have happened if he was aiming at the planet.

Thor punches were destroying worlds all around him and Gorr when they fought in Thor God of Thunder 9.

Exactly! I had just read this comic when I made this post...Thor, Hulk, SS etc have some very good power feats, but still many Superman fans just respond "Superman stomps" in any battle involving them. I'm a Superman fan myself as well as Thor, SS etc and I just don't think its respectful to say he simply stomps these high level opponents.

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#53 Posted by spider11211 (1134 posts) - - Show Bio

"Why do DC fans lack respect for Marvels big hitters"

Because they are DC fans.

#54 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@spider11211: I thought DC fans lack respect because their heroes having super strength and super speed equals automatic win.

#55 Edited by CrazyScarecrow (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter would be beat down both Hulk and Thor. I would also say Superman and Captain Marvel (true fans call him Captain Marvel. Not Shazam), but they both would hold back IMO since Hulk and Thor are heroes.

However Martian Manhunter can literally kill anyone in second multiple ways and Wonder Woman never holds back. There is a reason why Batman fears Wonder Woman more than anyone else and that is because she has no weakness and she won't hold back.

#56 Posted by phisigmatau (463 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd said:

im fine acknowledging the heavy hitters, its just when i read issues of siege where some random mutated accident freaks almost kill him in the middle of a field by blasting him, he seems kind of....well....yeah

I am not saying he is by any means weak but a punch to the face by iron patriot? It's degrading. I think it's because the heavy hitters powers go up and down frequently. You don't know what hulk you're going to get, you don't know how powered up thor will be. When I read superman (lately) I know just how strong he is, and his powers will either be the way they were last issue, or miscalculated and it turns out he was stronger. With hulk it's more like..."it is tuesday, and banner had hot chocolate before bed so he is less moody, and his emotions were in sync sooooo hulk will be smarter but lacks in strength now"

This, I tell you is why I find supporting Marvel and many of their writers impossible.

#57 Posted by w0nd (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

@phisigmatau: exactly. I love marvel, the majority of my fave characters are marvel but they are not heavy hitters. People hate the fact supes has that kryptonite weakness....ok what's thor's weakness? He holds back and almost gets beat to death. And what's Hulks? Who knows, like I said depends on the day of the week lol.

#58 Posted by Bezza (3257 posts) - - Show Bio

,,World War Hulk was a pretty heavy hitter?!

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#59 Posted by SC (12505 posts) - - Show Bio
@w0nd said:

its just when i read issues of siege where some random mutated accident freaks almost kill him in the middle of a field by blasting him, he seems kind of....well....yeah

Uh... not to disagree with your points, just those were the U-Foes man ^_^, they may not be super famous, but they are a pretty powerful group, one of them by himself once ripped most of Hulk's flesh off his bones. By himself. They were also considered the most powerful members of Osborn's group not including any of the Dark Avengers, and they were hand selected among some other characters to specifically take out Thor (Sentry, Moonstone were the others) and when they attacked him in that scene you posted old Thor villain Quicksand was also there as well as Osborn in one of Iron Man's most advanced and powerful suits at the time. So we have four powerful U-Foes, Moonstone, a Thor villain and Osborn in his Iron Patriot armor all attacking Thor after he had been blindside tackled into the ground by Sentry... and that makes him look weak? Damn lol I dunno, I can't imagine any professional writer putting any big name heavy hitter superhero character in that same spot and not having the outcome be the exact same or worse.

Incidentally Thor and Gilgamesh have also been knocked around before by Vector before, Vector is probably the most powerful U-Foe, he has repelled reality itself with his powers once, didn't really hurt Thor in the instance I am talking about and Thor went on to beat them up (with the other Avengers) but yeah, I wouldn't personally underestimate the U-Foes, especially after they get a free hit on Thor after Sentry's flying super spear. Thats just me. ^_^

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#60 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc said:

@w0nd said:

its just when i read issues of siege where some random mutated accident freaks almost kill him in the middle of a field by blasting him, he seems kind of....well....yeah

Uh... not to disagree with your points, just those were the U-Foes man ^_^, they may not be super famous, but they are a pretty powerful group, one of them by himself once ripped most of Hulk's flesh off his bones. By himself. They were also considered the most powerful members of Osborn's group not including any of the Dark Avengers, and they were hand selected among some other characters to specifically take out Thor (Sentry, Moonstone were the others) and when they attacked him in that scene you posted old Thor villain Quicksand was also there as well as Osborn in one of Iron Man's most advanced and powerful suits at the time. So we have four powerful U-Foes, Moonstone, a Thor villain and Osborn in his Iron Patriot armor all attacking Thor after he had been blindside tackled into the ground by Sentry... and that makes him look weak? Damn lol I dunno, I can't imagine any professional writer putting any big name heavy hitter superhero character in that same spot and not having the outcome be the exact same or worse.

Incidentally Thor and Gilgamesh have also been knocked around before by Vector before, Vector is probably the most powerful U-Foe, he has repelled reality itself with his powers once, didn't really hurt Thor in the instance I am talking about and Thor went on to beat them up (with the other Avengers) but yeah, I wouldn't personally underestimate the U-Foes, especially after they get a free hit on Thor after Sentry's flying super spear. Thats just me. ^_^

Basically this, and respect the U-Foes. After all Flash has a hard time fighting The Rogues a group with no super speed yet are able to tag Flash.

#61 Posted by w0nd (2712 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya: the flash thing is ridiculous as well ahaha

#62 Posted by frangipan (113 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is a God.

Superman is a alien

God beats alien

Discussion over

#63 Posted by GoldenGuardian (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Well considering Superman's single punch in the new 52 has shook the Earth and both Cyborg and batman felt the shock waves on the Watch tower none of Marvel's heavy hitters have hit that hard.

Yes they are high powered, but they are nothing compared to Superman. No one is anything compared to Superman, he can throw whomever bothers him into the sun, what you gonna do?

The only way to beat Superman is if he holds back, which he always will against someone who is originally "good" like say the Hulk or Iron Man or Thor. But let's be real, no one can beat him, Superman is the ultimate superhero, thus the name.

I take these as examples, these are clearly posts written by someone who did not read so much from Marvel Comics. Such features are common from marvel's powerhouses: the Champion with the power gem destroyed a planet missing thanos with a bare punch, Thor fought without troubles in the core of a star, the sentry and Mar-vell destroyed several planets holding back.
What make me say that Superman could probably beat the majority of marvel's mightest hero is just an editorial choice: a lot of DC characters can fight at light speed, this feature is uncommon in marvel, so even the strongest heroes of marvel universe could hardly defend against a superman or a flash running around and punching with infinite mass.
By the way something like a celestial, molecule man, phoenix could pose a serious threat to superman, because in DC there is not pleanty of reality shaper, while in Marvel basically every cosmic character has godlike power.
...
And Rune King Thor destroys superman with ease :P

#64 Posted by Experio (13350 posts) - - Show Bio

DC fans underestimate characters like Hulk and Thor, one particular reason is the fact that their slow. But that's just an assumption since they don't really know Thor, if they at least did some research then they would notice he has nanosecond reflexes:

Thor #270

Journey into Mystery #100

Excalibur #428

Thor #144

Avengers vol.3 #23

They would also know that Mjolnir can go million times faster than light (Thor: Whom the Gods would Destroy) when it returned from the farthest corner of the Galaxy. As I know, Superman fastest speed feats was when he went to the Sun and back in under 2 minutes which is roughly 8.3 times faster than light. See the difference, Mjolnir went further and yet came back quicker. Superman escaped a black hole, so has Mjolnir (Avengers Annual #19). Thor can simply order the hammer to deal with Superman while Thor watches from a distance, the hammer will turn circles around Superman to the point were he shrinks by spinning at a specific cyclonic speed. Thor did the same to Hyperion

#65 Posted by kasino (1317 posts) - - Show Bio

@hillbillymorangie: idk think if Marvel could get the rights to Superman/Batman they would gladly take them keep them the same and star in their universe

#66 Posted by evilvegeta74 (4521 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that fans have their loyalties toward particular companies. When it comes to defending the companies properties , that being characters, fans tend to mud sling at each other. I have participated in this as well, and know better. At he end of the day, it doesn't matter how much science or mathematics we apply to defending our characters The writers have last say, so have at the flame wars. Oh yeah, Thor rules," For Odin, For Asgard" ! Just joking, no I'm not!

#67 Edited by HillbillyMorangie (927 posts) - - Show Bio

@kasino: why? Surely if Marvel wanted DC characters they would just write them, amazing guy, born on another planet comes to earth when his world is destroyed, he has the powers of flight super strength and any other power you want to give him laying dormant not yet discovered, he is black with blue hair, except in his cover identity where he wears a wig and works at McDonald's... Obviously they can't use that or I'd sue them, I just invented amazing guy he is mine.

Marvel would not add those two characters to the mcu as they don't fit or are to similar to charecters that already exist.

All this happened already in the golden age of comics during the grab for audiences, Captain marvel was deemed a copy of superman as we're wonderman and master man, Angel was a bit like batman, but I dare say there were others even more like batman (the green hornet), heck I remember runs of Spider-Man that were a lot like batman in the 80s goodness knows where he got the money lol....

If marvel did get the rights to superman I'm sure they would shave his head and make him more like his original golden age version and a baddy for the avengers to overcome... He fits well as a baddy. batman would work well in the marvel universe though, but I think iron man would antagonise him as they are far to similar.

Note the original superman was just a man but it's a great short story if you can find it in an archive site, reminded me of Flowers for Algernon which is a truly amazing short story and should be a my post for all geeks and nerds out there.

I dunno, Marvel and DC are very different, for me DC is still very much like its Golden Age, where as Human torch, captain America and co have evolved or been replaced into a new age... Though that's just my opinion. I like many DC charecters, love green lantern, and the darker graphic novels of batman. I'm not a big fan of superman, but loved the Christopher reeves films.

#68 Posted by Maddpanda531 (980 posts) - - Show Bio

@epicbeast3000: Do you have scans for the arm-wrestling? I kinda really want to see that, it sounds awesome.

#69 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

Combat-Speed inflation. "Superman has nanosecond reaction time", Doomsday/Metallo/Aquaman hits him.....Guess who now has nanosecond reaction time.

I for one take issue with the above logic. I'm not convinced that Superman has nanosecond reaction time.

The feats just aren't there.

#70 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk: Let's not forget the match ups, so Wonder Woman is able to go toe to toe with Superman but in other issues she gets totaled by Bizarro with ease.

#71 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerkaya:

Some inconsistency is par for the course, it's the misrepresentation that gets me, people will post 3 scans that supposedly demonstrate nano-reactions but the logic is often flimsy, often treating Superman's on-panel statements as gospel and ignoring what's actually happening in the story. I can't post it now, but there's this one scan from JLA: Black Baptism where Superman says something like "I can count nanoseconds, no sudden moves!" to Felix Faust. Who then basically outright states that he's going to blast him with red solar rays, now here's the kicker Superman DOES NOTHING and gets toasted. That's about as self-defeating as they come.

#72 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk: I guess in the end DC fans are just more passionate and have more interest in Feats in what hero can bench press a planet while Marvel fans are just more interested in the story and character. That and DC and Marvel fans in the end just like rivalry.

#73 Posted by MaccyD (3394 posts) - - Show Bio

@omega_man_ said:

@peppeyhare: It's Superman #17 he did that feat, he hit H'el that hard it shook the planet itself and the watchtower which is in space. The punch wasn't even aimed at the planet it was aimed at H'el yet they felt the shock waves imagine what would have happened if he was aiming at the planet.

That's from the title, that seemingly exists to show Superman's feats while the other titles ignore this?

#74 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (4517 posts) - - Show Bio

"Why do DC fans lack respect for Marvels big hitters"

Because they are DC fans.

#75 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio
#76 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (5855 posts) - - Show Bio

People don't lack respect. DC hitters are just more powerful. That's the bottom line.

#77 Edited by youmessinwithme (1181 posts) - - Show Bio

@w0nd said:

im fine acknowledging the heavy hitters, its just when i read issues of siege where some random mutated accident freaks almost kill him in the middle of a field by blasting him, he seems kind of....well....yeah

I am not saying he is by any means weak but a punch to the face by iron patriot? It's degrading. I think it's because the heavy hitters powers go up and down frequently. You don't know what hulk you're going to get, you don't know how powered up thor will be. When I read superman (lately) I know just how strong he is, and his powers will either be the way they were last issue, or miscalculated and it turns out he was stronger. With hulk it's more like..."it is tuesday, and banner had hot chocolate before bed so he is less moody, and his emotions were in sync sooooo hulk will be smarter but lacks in strength now"

I love this example of just low balling the crap out of a character, of course Thor has Some showings in comics that would put him below Superman like the scan above, but at the beginning of action comics reboot for the new 52 Superman got electrocuted by... an electric chair. and we have Thor in GOT destroying planets. if we actually agree to use characters high end showings the battle would be close, instead of fans of always bringing up the other characters lowest showings. Thor can Survive Supernova's the hearts of suns, black holes and blasts to the face from Galactus. He can take a punch from Iron Patriot.

this is like if every time the Hulk got used in a battle people brought up that he'd been beaten by Captain America, if Hulk was actually vulnerable enough that he could be hurt by CAP he wouldn't survive against heavy hitters like Gladiator, Hyperion Thor etc. but he's obviously usually written much too tough for Captain America.

other prime example, Firelord he's a herald of Galactus on the Level with Silver Surfer he's a planet buster, and could probably beat some (but not all) of DC's heavy hitters, but he has also lost to Spider-man.... But that's just obviously bad writing if he could Survive everything he well has already survived unharmed Spider-man would break his fist off on Fire Lord's face. Same goes for the Hulk being hurt by Cap, cap should break his hand, and Iron Patriot should smash the armor on his fist when he hits Thor.

My 2 cents.

#78 Edited by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

In the end it but a simple loyalty brand we all share in comicvine Marvel fans hate and are ignorant of DC mythos and DC fans hate and as well as ignorant to Marvel mytho's. With that said lets just agree to disagree and be as hateful to one another's brand of characters.

#79 Edited by RulerOfThisUniverse (5942 posts) - - Show Bio

@frangipan: Except when the god is less powerful than the alien.

#80 Posted by Wolverine08 (38029 posts) - - Show Bio

@frangipan: Except when the god is less powerful than the alien.

Thor actually has more raw power at his disposal than Superman due to Mjnoir.

#81 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

DC powerhouses have speed, reactions and versatility in combat attacks and tactics on their side usually. Marvel do have some characters which outclass DC powerhouses in raw power but a lot of abilities aren't combat applicable or the character hardly uses them to count as a viable tactic in battle. Or they're just damn slow. Or they don't use their speed like DC characters do.

#82 Posted by Wolverine08 (38029 posts) - - Show Bio

"Why do DC fans lack respect for Marvels big hitters"

Because they are DC fans.

This.

#83 Posted by tigerkaya (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's a question why should Marvel fans care what DC fans think of their heroes?

#84 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

@spider11211 said:

"Why do DC fans lack respect for Marvels big hitters"

Because they are DC fans.

This.

Come on you can't believe that ridiculously false BS logic can you? I thought better of you than that. And I can easily say the same thing about Marvel fans. That kind of stupid logic works two ways you know. I'd drop believing in that logic if I were you since it isn't why DC fans supposedly disregard Marvel powerhouses anyway.

#85 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17135 posts) - - Show Bio

Dc's Power Scale is higher. and speed as well.

is still think though that without splitzing hulk could go against superman. might not win, but at least put up a fight.

#86 Edited by Wolverine08 (38029 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@wolverine08 said:

@spider11211 said:

"Why do DC fans lack respect for Marvels big hitters"

Because they are DC fans.

This.

Come on you can't believe that ridiculously false BS logic can you? I thought better of you than that. And I can easily say the same thing about Marvel fans. That kind of stupid logic works two ways you know. I'd drop believing in that logic if I were you since it isn't why DC fans supposedly disregard Marvel powerhouses anyway.

It is the same way around. Heavily biased Marvel fans will disregard DC characters and their abilities, while heavily biased DC fans will disregard Marvel characters and their abilities. I don't see what's ridiculous about it.

#87 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

It is the same way around. Heavily biased Marvel fans will disregard DC characters and their abilities, while heavily biased DC fans will disregard Marvel characters and their abilities. I don't see what's ridiculous about it.

Your original statement was made in a general context than how you've expressed it here. It seemed like there was much more of a bias against DC rather than a general comment on biased fans in the comment I replied to you.

#88 Edited by Wolverine08 (38029 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@wolverine08 said:

It is the same way around. Heavily biased Marvel fans will disregard DC characters and their abilities, while heavily biased DC fans will disregard Marvel characters and their abilities. I don't see what's ridiculous about it.

Your original statement was made in a general context than how you've expressed it here. It seemed like there was much more of a bias against DC rather than a general comment on biased fans in the comment I replied to you.

Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry about that.

#89 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

Your original statement was made in a general context than how you've expressed it here. It seemed like there was much more of a bias against DC rather than a general comment on biased fans in the comment I replied to you.

Ah, I see what you mean. Sorry about that.

It's my bad too for not seeing the bigger picture as well.

#90 Edited by Spideysense44 (2735 posts) - - Show Bio

Because DC fans love their charactes and Mavel fans love theirs. You talk about them but you are basically doing the same..

#91 Posted by matt42 (13 posts) - - Show Bio

@omega_man_: Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice as big as the earth and also when World Breaker Hulk was unleashed the ground all over the world begin to crack open with just his presence.

#92 Edited by TheIncredibleSuperHulk8642 (1951 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think they're disrespected but they do deserve a little more credit. Hulk, Silver Surfer and Thor can definitely hang with any of DC's biggest hitters and beat some but what they usually lack is the speed to keep up with them. Thor has the raw power Hulk has the raw strength but a guy like Superman is just too fast for them although they can put up a good fight due to their incredible stamina and durability sooner or later he'll wear them down. Silver Surfer is the only one who has the speed to keep up with them but he lacks the pure physical strength and durability to match some of them physically but he makes up for that with his incredible speed and power to the point where some DC characters can't keep up with him.

#93 Posted by THORSON (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

DC fanboys need to realize the the JLA is filled with powerful beings. DC only puts out the same stuff and characters while marvel can put out a variety.

avengers only have hulk and THOR.

now marvel fanboys and dc fanboys need to respect an opinion without being a bunch of rude jerks.

#94 Posted by youmessinwithme (1181 posts) - - Show Bio

Currently the Avengers actually have more raw power than the JL..... sorry fanboys.

#95 Posted by youmessinwithme (1181 posts) - - Show Bio
#96 Edited by Extremis (3326 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor>Superman

#97 Posted by CheeseSticks (2359 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor is a God.

Superman is a alien

God beats alien

Discussion over

So Thor beat Thanos? Lol

#98 Edited by youmessinwithme (1181 posts) - - Show Bio

@cheesesticks:

Thanos is also empowered by the Universal embodiment of death. he has also mystically, cybernetically and genetically enhanced himself and was already born a mutant. A really big difference if you're comparing him and Superman, That's like saying Zeus from GOW is as powerful as Zeus in Marvel.

#99 Edited by mikex20 (2769 posts) - - Show Bio

Silver Surfer would wipe the floor with Superman.

#100 Posted by CheeseSticks (2359 posts) - - Show Bio

@cheesesticks:

Thanos is also empowered by the Universal embodiment of death. he has also mystically, cybernetically and genetically enhanced himself and was already born a mutant.

Yes but he's still an alien, those power doesn't make him a god. So the God > Alien is totally false.