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#1 Posted by Chevaliere (983 posts) - - Show Bio

I just want to know. I heard some sources say Thor is more, but others say they got sources that say Sentry is better, and that he's Marvel's most powerful hero.

#2 Posted by Chevaliere (983 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry about the double post I got the 400 error and I thought it didn't go through. Mods can get rid of one, right?

#3 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

The Sentry. Siege was entirely PIS.

#4 Posted by Chevaliere (983 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt
What happened there? I'm not that up to date. Very behind because have not money.
#5 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordHuntingrathII: Well, first things first, don't buy it. It's terrible, the worst comic ever. So when you do have the money, spend it on something, anything, else. 
 
Anyways,
I say it's PIS because it ignores everything established in canon regarding character and power levels, even the parts written by Bendis himself (the writer of Siege), and was basically just a terrible hate-fic.
#6 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio

The writers I respect more who have weighed in think Thor is. That's just their opinion of course. Marvel itself has no official stance because Marvel could only lose fans and thus money by even trying to clarify. So ultimately there is no easy answer. I'd probably just say go with your own preference. 

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#7 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
The writers I respect more who have weighed in think Thor is. That's just their opinion of course. Marvel itself has no official stance because Marvel could only lose fans and thus money by even trying to clarify. So ultimately there is no easy answer. I'd probably just say go with your own preference. 
Who's said that, mate? It's basically just been Pak and Bendis who've underpowered the Sentry.
#8 Posted by Deadcool (6809 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordHuntingrathII

 
Sentry seems to be more powerful to Thor, but Thor is physically more powerful...
#9 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
@SC said:
The writers I respect more who have weighed in think Thor is. That's just their opinion of course. Marvel itself has no official stance because Marvel could only lose fans and thus money by even trying to clarify. So ultimately there is no easy answer. I'd probably just say go with your own preference. 
Who's said that, mate? It's basically just been Pak and Bendis who've underpowered the Sentry.
 
Not in any comic books. On Formspring and in forums etc. Dan Slott, PAD, and Kevin Grevioux have expressed in some form or other the sentiment that Thor is Marvels most powerful hero. I personally don't care so much about Pak's opinion here (though I respect it), its always Hulk, Hulk, Surfer, Hulk, Hercules, Hulk. Bendis has never cared about powerful characters or consistency or continuity or... I could go on. 
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#10 Posted by Deadcool (6809 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
@SC said:
The writers I respect more who have weighed in think Thor is. That's just their opinion of course. Marvel itself has no official stance because Marvel could only lose fans and thus money by even trying to clarify. So ultimately there is no easy answer. I'd probably just say go with your own preference. 
Who's said that, mate? It's basically just been Pak and Bendis who've underpowered the Sentry.

Actually the list is BIGGER than just them...
#11 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
@SC said:
The writers I respect more who have weighed in think Thor is. That's just their opinion of course. Marvel itself has no official stance because Marvel could only lose fans and thus money by even trying to clarify. So ultimately there is no easy answer. I'd probably just say go with your own preference. 
Who's said that, mate? It's basically just been Pak and Bendis who've underpowered the Sentry.
 Not in any comic books. On Formspring and in forums etc. Dan Slott, PAD, and Kevin Grevioux have expressed in some form or other the sentiment that Thor is Marvels most powerful hero. I personally don't care so much about Pak's opinion here (though I respect it), its always Hulk, Hulk, Surfer, Hulk, Hercules, Hulk. Bendis has never cared about powerful characters or consistency or continuity or... I could go on. 
Ahk, that makes sense. Well they are reliable writers, who actually do their research (hear that DnA, Bendis and Winick?), so that certainly is a valid point =] 
 
I like Pak too, but WWH (the arc, not the persona, the persona is epic) was quite terrible imo, and I was wondering if you were referring to that story. 
#12 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
Ahk, that makes sense. Well they are reliable writers, who actually do their research (hear that DnA, Bendis and Winick?), so that certainly is a valid point =]   I like Pak too, but WWH (the arc, not the persona, the persona is epic) was quite terrible imo, and I was wondering if you were referring to that story. 

They weren't exactly staunch about it either, which I like, you know, that element of ambiguity, sort of shows a certain respect to more fans. Grevioux can be a little shakey too, I like his work, but I think he had Blue Marvel take out King Hyperion way too easy. That might just be the Exiles and Blink fan in me though.  
 
Yeah I like Pak, I agree about the World War Hulk persona. Oh actually... I am surprised you like Pak... erm, unless you never heard about what his plans for World War Hulk was... Pak holds a mean grudge. Anyway, there are a few interviews out there, they are easy to find, my problem with Pak, is that he is too specific almost. I mean, in a way I guess that sort of honesty is nice, but in World War Hulk Hulk would have destroyed Superman, according to him, and in Chaos War Zeus is the most powerful this. Other writers seems a bit more reserved because they know, its a complicated weave of opinions and wants. Pak wanted Hulk to break all of Sentry's bones... with one punch? I mean, I am not even sure that's possible? Anyway, so I hate love/hate for Pak. His Hercules stuff has been good, funny, good humored. His Hulk run just sorta seems to be an excuse to update his feats and respect threads. Some good ideas though here and there (and bad, like trying to pass off Hulk as the son of an elder god lol) OH, but then i forget he actually let Zeus thrash Hulk pretty bad, so that was unexpected? I softened my stance on him a lil after that.  
 
I thought the Planet Hulk storyline was superior to World War Hulk. (oh and then the tie ins to that as well...)
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#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: I much prefer Planet Hulk to WWH, but Pak earned A LOT of respect from me for his phenomenal Son of Banner arc. The guy writes a fantastic Bruce Banner, a character I feel is far more interesting than he is given credit. I'm a big Hulk fan, but that's due mostly to Bruce. 
 
I also really enjoyed the final issue of World War Hulks (I think it was 611), which was a terrible arc, sure, but the final issue where Bruce becomes the Hulk again was epic. I gave it a glowing review on here if you're interested in having a look. 
I dropped Hulk part way through the Hiro-Kala stuff, mainly because I'm a fan of the introspective Hulk stories, not the Hulk family cosmic battle types, which Pak is focusing on.
#14 Posted by CurbsideProphet (1906 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: You said that Pak had "original plans" for World War Hulk and that he holds "a mean grudge." You have piqued my interest. Care to elaborate?
#15 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor

#16 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt:  Oh yeah that was an epic moment when Hulk turned back. Oh, and I enjoyed those issues after as well, some great father son stuff. (plus as you mention the Son of Banner stuff) Yeah sure I'll look for it, I like your reviews!! Very in depth!  
 
@CurbsideProphet said:
@SC: You said that Pak had "original plans" for World War Hulk and that he holds "a mean grudge." You have piqued my interest. Care to elaborate?
 
Yeah sure! Well in the earlier Sentry stories, there was one part where Void/Sentry (depending on which writer you talk to) broke all of Hulk's bones. Now IIRC either Tom Brevoort or Nate Cosby (both talked about the original script) but one of them... ended up revealing that in the original draft, or maybe second, but not the end version, Hulk would punch Sentry so hard all his bones broke. In the Hulk and Thor fight, Thor would drop his Hammer and Korg would pick it up, demonstrating that Hulk's cause was noble and Thor world leave and a Zom possessed Dr Strange would be the last issue guy. Anyway, the grudge I refer to is Hulk's bones being broken, and that Pak wanted Hulk to return the favor. lol (too coincidental otherwise) 
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#17 Posted by CurbsideProphet (1906 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC
Wasn't Thor dead at this time?
#18 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@CurbsideProphet said:
@SC: Wasn't Thor dead at this time?
 
He had returned and was back for a bit. The main issue was that JMS insisted on a... either a year long, or  6 month type, "Thor may not appear anywhere" else type deal with Marvel. Plus the way books get made in advance and all that was probably too tricky. Office politics as well probably. Anyway, Thor could have been used, if they really, really wanted (I mean more Marvel, than Pak)
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#19 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@CurbsideProphet said:
@SC: Wasn't Thor dead at this time?
 
Okay just ran numbers, Thor came back in September 2007 and World War Hulk was July 2007 to January 2008 roughly. So some cross over. 
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#20 Posted by CapFanboy (4497 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordHuntingrathII
I believe Sentry is more powerful, at least potentially but Thor knows how to wield what he has. So what do you consider more powerful, having the power to do something but not being able to use it or having some power but be able to do a lot more
#21 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyone else read that 'What If' set during 'Siege'? Issue #200. The one I'm talking about was set with the premise that if The Sentry had beaten Ares before the siege of Asgard, he would have been fully rested for battle. In the end, as most 'What Ifs' do, everything went ridiculously, horribly wrong, The Sentry turned into The Void, and basically devoured the entire freakin' planet. Yes, I know, it's not cannon, but I would like to know youse guys thoughts on this.

#22 Edited by AMS (1387 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends, ultimately without a doubt in the long run Thor is more powerful than Sentry when Thor reaches his upper levels and skyfather level.
 
But standard out of the box 'Verily I will stand here and throw yon hammer Mjolnir at thee' Thor should be getting slapped upside his head by Sentry on a good day at his peak writing levels  
worse than when Count Nefaria rips through almost the entire Avengers roster like tissue paper and stands letting Thor shots bounce off him with a smile on his face. 
 
I like Sentry but he suffered from bad writing and direction from day one and massive power fluctuations like Thor, Maestros, Superman etc. etc. and all the uber heroes ultimately do. I've defintely come to appreciate the character more in recent time...

#23 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
Thor, but I think Sentry had the potential to be more powerful.
#24 Posted by azza04 (1503 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Thor is more powerful than the Sentry, but his other persona the Void maybe more powerful than Thor.

#25 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry was very inconsistent just like Cable when he first came out. Thor has been way more consistent. I would say Thor is more powerful until we can see exactly what Sentry can do without (X).I.S

#26 Posted by MrUnknown (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Sentry is stronger than Thor without the Odin level powers.

#27 Posted by fodigg (6094 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry is more powerful because he can basically bend reality to his will. However, he's totally insane and has little control over himself or his powers. So...Thor is probably more effective.

#28 Posted by vidarrodinson (137 posts) - - Show Bio

The Sentry really changed the pecking order if nothing else.  He was out of place anyway.  There should be no debate now.  He brought more confusion than clarity.  The reader has to be able to follow the character.  His concept is all they have to relate.  I hope he never comes back.  He should not be competition for Thor at all.

#29 Posted by PowerHerc (78172 posts) - - Show Bio

It should be Thor, especially with Mjolnir, he was created to be Marvel's most powerful hero and that's what he should always be; Marvel's most powerful hero.

Who is and always should be Marvel's most powerful hero?

Silver Surfer? No.

Phoenix? No.

Dr. Strange? No.

Black Bolt? No.

Sentry? No.

Scarlet Witch? No.

Hyperion? No.

Thor? Yes.

#30 Posted by The V0id (34 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry ripped Ares in half and would probably had done the same to Thor or Hercules.

#31 Posted by gravitypress (2069 posts) - - Show Bio
@The V0id: Sentry would have died trying....Oh wait.
#32 Posted by Malonius (881 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Thor amp up to skyfather level intentionally with prep? Thor at that level is greater than Sentry if you consider that skyfathers are said to be galaxy busters (galaxy = billion and billions and billions of stars) and Sentry supposedly has the power of "only" a million exploding suns. Thor didn't even try any magic type stuff with his hammer in Siege, just kind of pounded on Sentry/Void and hit him with lightning. 
 
If Bob Reynolds comes back sane having mastered the whole Senty/Void power set, than he would be the most powerful non-cosmic character in Marvel. It would be cool if he joined the Annihilators. On Marvel Earth, he just throws the balance of power off. He's a crossover level event any time he has a bad day and makes every other superhero seem pointless in a fight.

#33 Posted by SoA (4592 posts) - - Show Bio

sentry , they made thor seem more powerful  for whatever reason , thor got blasted by osborn , moonstone and some other no-name who gives a crap villains and was taken down very quickly , for him to take out sentry (love him or hate him ) who fought hulk  to a standstill 
beat down molecule man had to be tricked by x-man (bc even he doubted he could take him) was just pointless bs. i think maybe he didnt have permission to include the hulk or surfer or some other cosmic , powerful being or he didnt know how to end siege and just handed marvel fans this crap . after dark reign i really cant defend or have been entertained by what marvel has been putting out since .

#34 Posted by higher_evolutionary (2015 posts) - - Show Bio
@The V0id said:
Sentry ripped Ares in half and would probably had done the same to Thor or Hercules. 
 

hulk one shotted ares twice
 
@PowerHerc said:

It should be Thor, especially with Mjolnir, he was created to be Marvel's most powerful hero and that's what he should always be; Marvel's most powerful hero.

Who is and always should be Marvel's most powerful hero?

Silver Surfer? No.

Phoenix? No.

Dr. Strange? No.

Black Bolt? No.

Sentry? No.

Scarlet Witch? No.

Hyperion? No.

Thor? Yes.


you are wrong the hulk is the strongest there is 

#35 Posted by sgtnickrage (28 posts) - - Show Bio

In a character to character comparison Sentry is far more powerful than Thor, as proven in the siege books. He practically took on Asgard by himself, ripping Areas in half. Now I understand that Thor is Marvels "big gun", and if their was a story line where it was Thor and Sentry, Thor would figure out a way to defeat this second rate character, but a power to power comparison, and each characters past achievement taken into account, you have to give it to Sentry. After reading the siege story I would think a better fight would be Galactus and Sentry.  (by the way I hate Sentry)

#36 Posted by sgtnickrage (28 posts) - - Show Bio
@The V0id: Agreed 
#37 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh just remembered something. Thor holds back. Thor one shot Namor and in like the times Sentry and Namor fought, it was always a whole lot closer. I guess that factually proves it once and for all. 

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#38 Posted by sgtnickrage (28 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Sentry ripped Ares in half and destroyed Asgard.
#39 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@sgtnickrage said:
@SC: Sentry ripped Ares in half and destroyed Asgard.
 
I am not sure what your point is sorry? Sorry, its lost on me. Power comparison between two is not determined by actions of one. One of the most illogical and fallacious arguments one can make is to think absence of proof or evidence, is proof or evidence of absence. The actions you mention demonstrate nothing that really says anything that important by themselves. 
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#40 Posted by PowerHerc (78172 posts) - - Show Bio

@higher_evolutionary said:

@The V0id said:
Sentry ripped Ares in half and would probably had done the same to Thor or Hercules.
hulk one shotted ares twice

@PowerHerc said:

It should be Thor, especially with Mjolnir, he was created to be Marvel's most powerful hero and that's what he should always be; Marvel's most powerful hero.

Who is and always should be Marvel's most powerful hero?

Silver Surfer? No.

Phoenix? No.

Dr. Strange? No.

Black Bolt? No.

Sentry? No.

Scarlet Witch? No.

Hyperion? No.

Thor? Yes.


you are wrong the hulk is the strongest there is
jk but he does rival thor in strength when angry














I like the images you posted, but I'm not wrong. The thread asks "Who is more powerful . . . ?", not "Who is strongest . . . ?" I do believe the Hulk is the physically strongest Marvel superhero, but not the over-all most powerful. I've made a list of Marvel's strongest superheroes and the Hulk is whom I put at number one. What I believe is that Thor is and should always be Marvel's over-all most powerful superhero, not the physically strongest; the most powerful. There is a difference.

#41 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor seems Physically more powerful and has feats far more impressive than Those the Sentry has but this is mainly cause of how long he's had his own series. Thor also has the potential to become more powerful since he has npot mastered his own mystical powers unlik eother Gods like Odin or Loki.  
 
from what i've seen of both Characters it would go 
 
Thor at full potential>>>>>>>>>>>>>VoidSentry>>>regular Thor>>>>>>Regular Sentry.
#42 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio
@sgtnickrage said:


                    In a character to character comparison Sentry is far more powerful than Thor, as proven in the siege books. He practically took on Asgard by himself, ripping Areas in half. Now I understand that Thor is Marvels "big gun", and if their was a story line where it was Thor and Sentry, Thor would figure out a way to defeat this second rate character, but a power to power comparison, and each characters past achievement taken into account, you have to give it to Sentry. After reading the siege story I would think a better fight would be Galactus and Sentry.  (by the way I hate Sentry)

                   

               

@sgtnickrage said:


                    @SC: Sentry ripped Ares in half and destroyed Asgard.

                   

               

Thor has easily defeated Ares at 3X power while Thor was Holding Back faster than the sentry could defeat regular Ares. 
Thor one shotted Namor in the pouring Rain without the use of his hammer. Even after sentry pounded Namor into the Ground Namor was back up within one panel.
Sentry almost burned up entering into earths sun whereas Thor has stood in the centre of the Sun without it even drying out his eyes. 
Herules who is Equal to Thor in strength was wooping the Sentry and Hercules doesn't have any of Thor's other powers.  
Odin admittted that if Thor ever reached his full potential he would be more powerful than even Odin.  
Thor has beaten far better than the Sentry even people who are Skyfather level. 
Thor on panel has defeated Galactus. Spider-man claims Sentry stalemated Galactus. 
Sentry Claims to have the power of a thousand or million exploding suns. Thor has actuallly demonstrated the power of 1000 suns and has Dealt with Galaxy destroying level energy before.
Thor held back when fighting armies of regular asgardian warrors because he didn't want to murder his people and has already proven himself strong enough to destroy asgard itself.  
 Nothing the Sentry has done overshadows what Thor has done.
#43 Posted by sgtnickrage (28 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thor's hammmer: True enough, you are obviously a big Thor fan and know your Thor history, but as a comic book reader you understand that the consistency of each characters story line especially one as old as Thor( The marvel Character not the actual Norse Myth) can be inconsistent at times. For example the Wolverine character when he first started was get his neck slit and he would not be fast enough to heal before he bled out. Thor use to fly by throwing his hammer and hanging to the inertia, that has certainly changed.  My only experience with the Sentry was reading the Dark Avengers and they raised the Sentry passed superman levels. The last Marvel-DC confrontation between those two, superman dominated over Thor. 
#44 Posted by sgtnickrage (28 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: As a comic book reader you understand that the consistency of each characters story line especially one as old as Thor( The marvel Character not the actual Norse Myth) can be inconsistent at times. For example the Wolverine character when he first started was get his neck slit and he would not be fast enough to heal before he bled out. Thor use to fly by throwing his hammer and hanging to the inertia, that has certainly changed.  My only experience with the Sentry was reading the Dark Avengers and they raised the Sentry passed superman levels. The last Marvel-DC confrontation between those two, superman dominated over Thor. 
#45 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@sgtnickrage said:
@SC: As a comic book reader you understand that the consistency of each characters story line especially one as old as Thor( The marvel Character not the actual Norse Myth) can be inconsistent at times. For example the Wolverine character when he first started was get his neck slit and he would not be fast enough to heal before he bled out. Thor use to fly by throwing his hammer and hanging to the inertia, that has certainly changed.  My only experience with the Sentry was reading the Dark Avengers and they raised the Sentry passed superman levels. The last Marvel-DC confrontation between those two, superman dominated over Thor.
 
That's totally awesome, I mean, how you justify your stance. I like that you mention reading experience and what reading material, and your line of thinking.Plus your right, as a comic book reader I do understand the consistency/inconsistency not just of each character's storyline/narrative, but each writer, as well as shared narrative as well as ongoing narrative. My experience with Thor is everything outside a few Captain America and Iron Man issues he appeared in and these days, its even harder. He appears in small cameos in random books like Iron Age, which I don't get. My experience with Sentry is everything. To me, there is not they, in regard to creative decisions with him in Dark Avengers, primarily there is Bendis. Bendis typically ignores or flat out doesn't care about accurate power comparisons, because he is all about the story and the plot. So with that in mind, he wouldn't actually raise or lower any character's power. Instead what he does, is he designs a plot, and then moves characters around to the right pieces. Like we know now, with hindsight, that the reason why Bendis had been writing Ares in the years leading up to Siege, was because if he had not increased Ares profile, and made him more respectable as a powerhouse, then people would have just remembered him as the guy Hulk and Thor use to beat, really, really easy. After one of Bendis best collaborators Michael Avon Oeming reinvented the Ares character to be more serious, Bendis drafted him and made him the type of character that started accumulating spots, moments, respect, popularity and to some something referred to as "feats" because to Bendis target market, the fact Ares is a god, might actually lead them to think he might be in the same ballpark in power as other gods. People who approach Marvel, with a better understanding of its history,how the narrative works, with a more critical line of thinking will know this is far from the case though, as far as any characters who share a common trait. (Beast is a mutant and so is Magneto? Two mutants = same power levels?) Essentially to get to the point faster, we know that Siege was about Tony, Cap and Thor and the downfall of Norman Osborn. One thing a plot needs is a great challenge that seems nigh unstoppable and powerful, and you need risk for our heroes. If you don't have that naturally? Create it. Bendis did. Some call it "PIS" plot induced stupidity. I don't, Bendis sells more than any other writer, has a job at Marvel, and knows his audience and how to sell to it, and that audience is generally a lot larger than most other writers. I also know Bendis is a plot orientated writer, and so personally? I apply discretion equally for what he writes, compared to every single other piece of info I have and can muster. (I talk about Siege because that was the endpoint for Dark Avengers)  
 
I don't use words like you do, with you reference and use of "dominate", that's not an objectively accurate or testable term. How do we apply fair comparison? If that's your way, that's dandy. Personally for me? Your example isn't strong enough. Does this mean the two previous planned cross overs that nixed because the EIC of Marvel, actually stood up more for Marvel characters mean that Thor is now superior? I mean, 2 to one? At least in intent? Eh, not to me, overall. in Marvel, that event is not canon, in DC it is, that affects some peoples views as well, as well as for many, Sentry not being raised above Superman. Some of those people including writers. If writers can't agree on such things, I fail to see how any one poster/fan on this website can have the authoritative or definitive say on the matter, especially with the types of arguments presented. 
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#46 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23245 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thor's hammmer said:
@sgtnickrage said:


                    In a character to character comparison Sentry is far more powerful than Thor, as proven in the siege books. He practically took on Asgard by himself, ripping Areas in half. Now I understand that Thor is Marvels "big gun", and if their was a story line where it was Thor and Sentry, Thor would figure out a way to defeat this second rate character, but a power to power comparison, and each characters past achievement taken into account, you have to give it to Sentry. After reading the siege story I would think a better fight would be Galactus and Sentry.  (by the way I hate Sentry)

                   

               

@sgtnickrage said:


                    @SC: Sentry ripped Ares in half and destroyed Asgard.

                   

               
Thor has easily defeated Ares at 3X power while Thor was Holding Back faster than the sentry could defeat regular Ares. Thor one shotted Namor in the pouring Rain without the use of his hammer. Even after sentry pounded Namor into the Ground Namor was back up within one panel.Sentry almost burned up entering into earths sun whereas Thor has stood in the centre of the Sun without it even drying out his eyes. Herules who is Equal to Thor in strength was wooping the Sentry and Hercules doesn't have any of Thor's other powers.  Odin admittted that if Thor ever reached his full potential he would be more powerful than even Odin.  Thor has beaten far better than the Sentry even people who are Skyfather level. Thor on panel has defeated Galactus. Spider-man claims Sentry stalemated Galactus. Sentry Claims to have the power of a thousand or million exploding suns. Thor has actuallly demonstrated the power of 1000 suns and has Dealt with Galaxy destroying level energy before.Thor held back when fighting armies of regular asgardian warrors because he didn't want to murder his people and has already proven himself strong enough to destroy asgard itself.   Nothing the Sentry has done overshadows what Thor has done.
1. Ares isn't that strong to begin with. Defeating him at 3x power would be like defeating Thing or Colossus. Sentry has easily restrained Ares, and if he wanted to kill him, he would. 
2. Which is ridiculous, considering Namor has taken blows from people like Thor and Hercules and Blue Marvel for ages, but Thor can suddenly one-shot him? No. 
3. Sentry was once again holding back against Hercules. This is the same story where Ares was going blow for blow with Typhon, and Hercules was struggling to hold Sentry back until Herc kneed him in the groin. Athena was blindsided by the bloody titan girl. Hell, they had Daken fighting Pluto of all people. 
4. Galactus was vastly weakened when Thor drove him away from earth (with his most powerful attack, mind you.) Sentry has weakened dramatically since his encounter with Galactus, and we have no idea what level Galactus was even at.  
5. Sentry got the exploding suns thing from a comic book. It's not an actual indicator of his power level. It's just something he liked, and took.  
6. Yeah, so could Sentry. The average Asgardian? Not that strong. HAMMER soldiers were gunning them down. 
#47 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Uppercut said:
@Thor's hammmer said:
@sgtnickrage said:


                    In a character to character comparison Sentry is far more powerful than Thor, as proven in the siege books. He practically took on Asgard by himself, ripping Areas in half. Now I understand that Thor is Marvels "big gun", and if their was a story line where it was Thor and Sentry, Thor would figure out a way to defeat this second rate character, but a power to power comparison, and each characters past achievement taken into account, you have to give it to Sentry. After reading the siege story I would think a better fight would be Galactus and Sentry.  (by the way I hate Sentry)

                   

               

@sgtnickrage said:


                    @SC: Sentry ripped Ares in half and destroyed Asgard.

                   

               
Thor has easily defeated Ares at 3X power while Thor was Holding Back faster than the sentry could defeat regular Ares. Thor one shotted Namor in the pouring Rain without the use of his hammer. Even after sentry pounded Namor into the Ground Namor was back up within one panel.Sentry almost burned up entering into earths sun whereas Thor has stood in the centre of the Sun without it even drying out his eyes. Herules who is Equal to Thor in strength was wooping the Sentry and Hercules doesn't have any of Thor's other powers.  Odin admittted that if Thor ever reached his full potential he would be more powerful than even Odin.  Thor has beaten far better than the Sentry even people who are Skyfather level. Thor on panel has defeated Galactus. Spider-man claims Sentry stalemated Galactus. Sentry Claims to have the power of a thousand or million exploding suns. Thor has actuallly demonstrated the power of 1000 suns and has Dealt with Galaxy destroying level energy before.Thor held back when fighting armies of regular asgardian warrors because he didn't want to murder his people and has already proven himself strong enough to destroy asgard itself.   Nothing the Sentry has done overshadows what Thor has done.
1. Ares isn't that strong to begin with. Defeating him at 3x power would be like defeating Thing or Colossus. Sentry has easily restrained Ares, and if he wanted to kill him, he would. 2. Which is ridiculous, considering Namor has taken blows from people like Thor and Hercules and Blue Marvel for ages, but Thor can suddenly one-shot him? No. 3. Sentry was once again holding back against Hercules. This is the same story where Ares was going blow for blow with Typhon, and Hercules was struggling to hold Sentry back until Herc kneed him in the groin. Athena was blindsided by the bloody titan girl. Hell, they had Daken fighting Pluto of all people. 4. Galactus was vastly weakened when Thor drove him away from earth (with his most powerful attack, mind you.) Sentry has weakened dramatically since his encounter with Galactus, and we have no idea what level Galactus was even at.  5. Sentry got the exploding suns thing from a comic book. It's not an actual indicator of his power level. It's just something he liked, and took.  6. Yeah, so could Sentry. The average Asgardian? Not that strong. HAMMER soldiers were gunning them down. 
 
1. What you say applies with relativity to any and all characters. Its a broad based argument. Thor can't restrain or kill Ares? He has killed objectively proven stronger and restrained objectively proven stronger. Easily is a relative term, with subjective interpretation. Actually demonstrating the relativity of ease is what helps ideally, otherwise the argument you present is guilty of the same flaws your argument addresses.  
 
2. Its only ridiculous if someone holds the absurd notion that a person only has one power setting for their punch. Its like saying that because a boxer can regularly take punches from other boxers, its impossible, that some couldn't be knocked out with one, good, clean, unrestrained punch. Its easy and a great point to attack the creative decision behind this action, and instance/example, and to attack the consistency, but of course as far as the consistency, one would have to find other examples, where Thor had the same motivation and failed to not Namor out with one blow, AND, I mean, when the guy who created Blue Marvel, himself says that Thor is stronger than Blue Marvel, I am not sure raising the idea that because Namor has taken blows from him it makes it inconsistent unless one is going by Namor's word of mouth, which is flawed. Then to address attacking the creative decision, well if one says no here, what can say no to anything. Hell, now Namor is stronger than Sentry and Thor combined because their interactions with each other? No.  
 
3. I agree.  
 
4. A retcon introduced much later, and ambiguous so, so define vastly weakened? We know he had recently fed, that doesn't actually mean he still wasn't vastly weakened, but you know? If one is trying to compare the two characters, and as you say we have no idea what level Galactus was at, or even Sentry was at either, or whether Sentry stalemated him with help, or like how Reed did, or maybe even the possibility he was powered up unnaturally.  
 
5. I agree.  
 
6. Not sure what specific point you refer to lol, but it appears the person you were addressing, is aware that Sentry could and has did that, but was referring to how Thor could and has as well, since if that is the reason the person he addressed, holds his view, then pointing it out makes sense, its not an admission that Sentry could not. Especially if it seems he is purposefully comparing two things that he acknowledges has happened. 
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#48 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23245 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: 1. Sure, he can. But to imply Sentry couldn't would be equally false.  
 
2. Using boxing as an analogy doesn't really work considering the entire point of boxing is to inflict as much pain and damage on an opponent as possible. A prolonged fight between Thor and Namor would result in mutual damage for both. Considering most fights in comics rarely last more then a few panels, and given the history between the two characters, it's unlikely that Thor would want to cause Namor lasting harm. We know he holds back, but if simply knocking Namor out would cause less damage then simply going back and forth with him in some prolonged dick waving contest, it would seem prudent that Thor would do it consistently. How is using Namor's word flawed? It was written by the same person. That's saying Grievoux's writing is flawed. So either way, it would mean that both statements aren't usable. 
  
4. Considering the blast was apparently close to killing the cosmic deity, I can only posit that he wasn't anywhere close to a normal power level. Which begs a lot of questions as to why Galactus didn't simply defend himself, or as he had with others, simply consume that energy.  Actually, he did have help considering Nate Grey was there. But that's beside the point. It can't be used as a measuring stick because we don't know what kind of stats were in play at that point. Sentry may have had to go through several heralds to get to him, or maybe he fought Galactus on the astral plane, or some other scenario.  
 
6. Simply noting that it's not particularly impressive for either character. Thor has caused Asgard to simply fall with a word. No one doubts he could destroy it. No one doubts Sentry could either. 
#49 Posted by SC (11950 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Uppercut said:
@SC: 1. Sure, he can. But to imply Sentry couldn't would be equally false.   2. Using boxing as an analogy doesn't really work considering the entire point of boxing is to inflict as much pain and damage on an opponent as possible. A prolonged fight between Thor and Namor would result in mutual damage for both. Considering most fights in comics rarely last more then a few panels, and given the history between the two characters, it's unlikely that Thor would want to cause Namor lasting harm. We know he holds back, but if simply knocking Namor out would cause less damage then simply going back and forth with him in some prolonged dick waving contest, it would seem prudent that Thor would do it consistently. How is using Namor's word flawed? It was written by the same person. That's saying Grievoux's writing is flawed. So either way, it would mean that both statements aren't usable.   4. Considering the blast was apparently close to killing the cosmic deity, I can only posit that he wasn't anywhere close to a normal power level. Which begs a lot of questions as to why Galactus didn't simply defend himself, or as he had with others, simply consume that energy.  Actually, he did have help considering Nate Grey was there. But that's beside the point. It can't be used as a measuring stick because we don't know what kind of stats were in play at that point. Sentry may have had to go through several heralds to get to him, or maybe he fought Galactus on the astral plane, or some other scenario.   6. Simply noting that it's not particularly impressive for either character. Thor has caused Asgard to simply fall with a word. No one doubts he could destroy it. No one doubts Sentry could either. 
 
1. Sure, but did he imply Sentry couldn't? As opposed to just pointing out something? Its true that absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence, but as far as ways to disprove another persons argument by pointing out that just because Sentry has demonstrated superiority in some contexts, isn't to suggest or demonstrate that he is in all contexts.  
  
2. It only doesn't work if you misunderstand the analogy, or get hung up on specifics which have no relevance or point with the analogy, Its easy to tear down an analogy in that sense, try and word your argument in an analogy and I'll demonstrate. Using an analogy in good faith is more about conveying an idea, so do you understand the idea I am presenting? To me, its highly flawed to suggest A prolonged fight between Thor and Namor would result in mutual damage for both, regardless of there history, not without firm emphasis that its not a would, but a could. This is not a false dilemma. Then no, not really, Thor at the time of one shotting Namor was fighting on behalf of the Nazi's and was not acting in a traditional heroic capacity or with any knowledge of the people he was interacting with, nor had he experienced his humility lesson yet, so there are lots of clear reasons here why his actions would not be repeated with consistency in latter clashes. That's not me advocating that Thor therefore, will always one shot Namor, mind you. It just seems like cherry picking to me, for you to dismiss that example... because? Namor's word is flawed, because he is a character and characters are characters and not fact makers, or fact checkers and so on. Character's can only make observations based on the info they have. Writers and readers both have a lot more advantages and thus can make more objective observations. How can Namor even quantify who has hit him the hardest of he got knocked out? So its NOT saying the writers word is flawed, unless you think writers aren't aware that they are writing characters. Writers are trying to create a story, not provide a narrative where characters had a gods eye perspective. So you seem to misunderstand the point here if you believe one suggests that the writer and Namor the character both have the same level of authority and objectivity. So both statements can be judged on its own merits. Just like a writer who writes a character punching a female, isn't a writer who endorses physical abuse. Naturally.  
  
4. Actually you can posit a lot of different things. Anything less is argument by ignorance. You are not aware of any other ideas or explanations so you assumption is correct. Forget the fact that there is a gulf between "very weakened" and "normal power level" and you haven't, because you can't define either so trying to apply objectivity here where there is only ambiguity. We also don't know Nate Grey was there. Again, characters are character's, if you buy the narrative as fact, that's great, but the narrative is designed to contradict itself and characters not only, always always truthful, characters also recognize that they can lie, and many do. I agree with your latter statement, post your "its beside the point statement", except in the sense, if were look at the person you addressed? How the person they addressed was arguing. Your arguments do reveal several flaws within their arguments, but perhaps there arguments were only created to point out the flaws in the presented argument with the person they addressed. Its far, far easier to point holes in theories and flaws in arguments and evidence so on. Than to you know, make a case or affirmative argument. So I agree with you beyond that point, but and because your argument is a lot more neutral and inquiring,  
 
6. Agreed *smile* (your awesome at debating boss)
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#50 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23245 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC:  
 
1. Agreed 
 
2. As I recall, it was Namor's narration. If Namor was making an observation how hard he's been hit by both characters, then wouldn't he have the necessary information to make that kind of a judgement call? It doesn't seem like he'd need some kind of scientific set up with pressure pads to measure the exact force in order to tell readers via his personal thoughts of who has been able to hit him the hardest. He wasn't trying to make himself look better, it was just an admittance on his part that Adam can indeed swing like a mofo.  
 
4. Nate was quite clear the he was there in the Dark X-men run. Once again, he's not a character who's personality is to lie through his teeth. If he were untrustworthy or known for a blatant misrepresentation of events. But that's two characters that can confirm that the Sentry has faced Galactus. But once again, the exact context or factors of the fight are rather unknown until such a time as some other writer decides to elaborate on it. Thor's skirmish with Galactus however is far easier to draw a conclusion from.