Posted by Cara_Hunter (3687 posts) 11 months, 2 days ago

Poll: "True" Omnipotence in MARVEL fake??? (13 votes)

Yes 31%
No 38%
Too complicated/complex to truly answer 31%

This has been bothering me a while

people have said

Pre-Recton Beyonder is Omnipotent

Odin is Omnipotent

TOAA is Omnipotent

Thanos with HOTU is Omnipotent

My question is

Are any of them "really omnipotent" in the MARVEL verse?

I mean did TOAA exist before PR Beyonder and if he did why was PR Beyonder considered Omnipotent?

Why do the writers on two different occasions state Odin is Omnipotent if he loses to Celestials and Galactus?

Why is Thanos with the HOTU equal or greater than TOAA if it's just an object?

Who would win in a fight if they were all in the same room?

#1 Posted by SC (12691 posts) - - Show Bio

I posted this elsewhere but it sort of applies here so I will post it again.

As far as omnipotence, it depends on how definitions are applied. Comic book forum fans are notorious for going by common sense type reasoning to justify assertions rather than establishing definitions, criteria and acknowledging and understanding loopholes and exceptions to claims and assertions. Writers also commonly use words to relay and convey meaning as far as story value rather than accuracy or validity, writers aren't trying to revolutionize science, theism or philosophy, they just want your money and praise.

Omnipotence by many definitions either isn't actually possible, or its relative and thus applicable more than once. Depends on the definition. Its a lot easier for omnipotence characters in fiction to exist than in reality, because its up to viewer discretion to buy the claim or assertion of the author of fiction. In fiction anything that can be imagined and communicated is possible even if it directly contradicts itself and even if its basically nonsense and incoherent. This is not true of reality and how we define things. Certain things by definition can't be contradicted and its up to evidence and science and proof that we basically give more value to what is demonstrated as more actual than not.

This is also why the TOAA is a good example of a projected omnipotent character, because its a meta character that makes reference to various real life creators. Any writer that would depict the The One Above All negatively and as not all powerful would run the risk of insulting Kirby's legacy in Marvel. Kirby's likeness has been used for TOAA before for example. Kirby is a huge name in comics and respected by so many creators inside the industry to a greater extent than Stan Lee for example. Jim Shooter on the other hand and what he did with the Beyonder character was a lot more polarizing and not as much of a tribute to any other real life person. Its much easier to deride and undermine that character even with its heavy association with Shooter. Either way the TOAA is more than just a fictional character, its a reference to real world creators that can do anything they want imagination limited to fictional reality. Just as a character? Its no more powerful than various other comic book companies projected end all stand in for prime movers, parallels to big G gods.

How can Odin be referred to as omnipotent? Well under the omnipotence is relative scenario, Odin's ability to create Earth like worlds, give life to creatures, mess around with reality to a degree, rule over a race of gods, these things suggest great power that allow him to do anything. He obviously can't do absolutely anything and everything, but neither can any other fictional character really. Under that same criteria though its possible to assert that humans are omnipotent from the perspective of an ant. This is also why Odin can lose to other characters who also may be labeled with that term. I believe the TOAA hadn't actually been as well established around the time if Beyonder's most powerful incarnation. Otherwise under the no characters are omnipotent scenario its just hyperbole intended to paint the idea that Odin is very powerful.

The TOAA would probably win, that character invokes the legacy of Jack Kirby and Stan Lee, would have to be a brave writer to try and argue another character would win, especially as both Thanos and Beyonder are connected to Jim Starlin and Jim Shooter. It would almost imply that either those two guys are greater.

Moderator
#2 Edited by Cara_Hunter (3687 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Nice post :)

#3 Posted by Elm (63 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Awesome post.

#4 Edited by KingOfAsh (3519 posts) - - Show Bio

Two points I make with questioning the omnipotents...

  1. If TOAA is omnipotent, why does he need the Living Tribunal to do all his work for him?
  2. During the Fantastic Four visiting the creator, the creator mentions his colaborator, which would put him as an equal to his collaborator.
#5 Posted by Blood_Red_Rage (508 posts) - - Show Bio

TOAA is truly omnipotent as well as omnipresent and omniscient. PR Beyonder was powerful but TOAA is still the absolute power in the Marvel universe. TOAA was the one who gave Thanos the HOTU which is a powerful item but only a tiny fraction of the TOAA. There are scans of Odin's early appearances with him claiming to be omnipotent. To that I say he obviously is not, he is a god to mortals but dwarfed by abstracts.

#6 Edited by warlock360 (28040 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's some comparison

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/how-does-it-feel-to-be-omni-33363/

#7 Edited by Dernman (14726 posts) - - Show Bio

TOAA is the only one who truly is.

#8 Edited by warlock360 (28040 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and simple answer, some claims are untrue, but omnipotence exists there.

#9 Posted by SkyRobo1 (278 posts) - - Show Bio

Two points I make with questioning the omnipotents...

  1. If TOAA is omnipotent, why does he need the Living Tribunal to do all his work for him?
  2. During the Fantastic Four visiting the creator, the creator mentions his colaborator, which would put him as an equal to his collaborator.

1) Why does GOD need his Angels to do his work for him?
2) I don't read FF so I have no idea who the Collaborator is.

#10 Posted by Guardian_of_Gravity (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

You can have an infinite number of infinitely large objects in an infinitely large space while having each one have an infinite amount of distance between each other.

Infinity is weird.

#11 Posted by TheMGR (194 posts) - - Show Bio

Omnipotence=squirrel girl and batman with prep

#12 Posted by Doomnaut (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk is omnipotent to. :)

#13 Posted by PowerHerc (81602 posts) - - Show Bio

Every time a character is presented as "omnipotent" that character is, sooner or later, proven to not be omnipotent when he/she needs help or is defeated.

#14 Posted by Fifthchild (587 posts) - - Show Bio

These are comic books - pretty much anyone who shows up in them more than once is going to get punched in the chops and have a tooth knocked loose sooner or later. Some writers obviously intended for things like the Infinity Gauntlet, the Beyonder, The Living Tribunal to be truly omnipotent at one time or another. Other writers have shown things differently. Life goes on.

#15 Edited by Squares (4867 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Awesome post, as always

There are no all-powerful characters in the Marvel universe. At least, not for long.

#16 Edited by Maddpanda531 (995 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm pretty sure that Wolverine is omnipotent.

#17 Edited by OfficialRikudouSennin (631 posts) - - Show Bio

nope toaa isnt omniponent

#18 Posted by THORSON (2317 posts) - - Show Bio

no.

depends on the story, event, circumstances and timeline.