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#1 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a tinfoil-hat, crackpot-theory-type of deal, but hear me out. When Hal Jordan was on the New 52 Justice League, Geoff Johns really pushed their relationship--in fact, it was the first relationship set up in the book. It was more pusheded than the other relationships these characters are known for like Superman/Batman or Green Lantern/Flash.

In this video below, at the 5:08 mark, the screen writer mentions that Geoff Johns told him to emphasize the Green Lantern/Batman relationship.

Now you have to ask yourself "why?". Well, part of my theory is that it pays to be Batman's friend than it does to be Superman's or Flash's. We already know that Geoff Johns is a Hal Jordan fanboy. And many suspect that he doesn't like Batman for some reason. What if that reason was because he's frustrated at how Batman is used to sell everything? What if he tried to fight against the grain at first, but failed?

http://www.comicvine.com/justice-league-of-america/4060-31815/forums/dear-geoff-johns-please-take-batman-off-justice-le-745427/?page=2

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/batman_is_god/blog/geoff-johns-hate-for-batman/74809/

What if he realized that by hitching his favorite character to Batman, his favorite character might get some of the benefits that Superman has--like the demand for more and more Superman/Batman stories? That has to boost Clark's profile.

You may be thinking that this can't be true because Hal was removed from the league. Well didn't he leave in one of the most heroic ways possible?

Didn't Clark tell Diana that they could contain Despero if Hal returned to Earth? In fact, Johns revealed that

Hal Jordan will be back in Justice League next year.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=46750

Expect Hal's return to be some glorious way that he saves the Justice League. Expect the Batman/Green Lantern relationship to be central to his Justice League run.

But don't worry, Superman fans. Geoff still like Superman. When he can, he tries to set up a Superman, Batman, Green Lantern trifecta of popularity.

It kind of feels like Johns is trying to turn Batman into Captain America, Hal Jordan into Tony Stark, and Superman into Thor. A new Avengers Prime/Trinity, leaving Wonder Woman as Superman's bloodlusted girlfriend rather than a perfect role model for girls everywhere.

It's funny though, because that suspected Batman hate does still pop up from time-to-time in the words of Geoff's favorite avatar.

Thoughts?

#2 Edited by Black_Claw (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

Pushing GL doesn't surprise me since he's certainly been the one DC hero that's had a lot of media exposure other than Superman and Batman, what I want to know is why he's so hell bent on pushing Cyborg and Shazam's friendship even though they have yet to meet in the comics.

#3 Posted by Xwraith (14682 posts) - - Show Bio

Geoff Johns is a massive fanboy for Hal. He obviously wants him to be on Batman's level of popularity.

#4 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

#5 Posted by slade_wilson (442 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish Geoff Johns would get on board with WW, too. But Morrison will make her shine in due time. Oh and a ruthless, butt-kicking Diana does not make for a poor role model. It makes for an awesome one. Just sayin'.

#6 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

That sound you hear is the eyeballs of a million World's Finest fans rolling.

#7 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by darknightspideyfanboy (1180 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: how do want your tin hat to be shape a boat or a swan lol just trolling but yeah i think ur using batman to boost other characters popularity is pretty smart that what they try to do in brave and bold hell that how blue beetle got popular btw does batman logo always pair that well with other super hero logo lol

#9 Edited by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@outlawrenegade said:

@veshark: At me or Johns?

Huh? Johns, of course, why would it be you?

IDK. I guess because I could see a WF fan being offended for suggesting Batman may have a hand in boosting Superman's popularity.

#11 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

To be honest, I don't think this is it.

I think he's trying to make himself more popular, since the majority of Bat fans have turned on him for his obvious Batman-hatred. By pairing Batman up with his pet character (who has stopped being his pet character in many ways, he's moved onto Aquaman, Cyborg and Sinestro now), he's saying "hey look, Batman fans, I'm cool, I think Batman and Hal would be friends!"

#12 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

To be honest, I don't think this is it.

I think he's trying to make himself more popular, since the majority of Bat fans have turned on him for his obvious Batman-hatred. By pairing Batman up with his pet character (who has stopped being his pet character in many ways, he's moved onto Aquaman, Cyborg and Sinestro now), he's saying "hey look, Batman fans, I'm cool, I think Batman and Hal would be friends!"

Except, he uses Hal to insult Batman or disrespect him, ignores Cyborg--for the most part--and is bringing Hal back to the league. I think Aquaman will probably do less on Justice League now that Throne of Atlantis is done, but who knows? Maybe he'll write Aquaman for 7 more years?

#13 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@outlawrenegade said:

@veshark: At me or Johns?

Huh? Johns, of course, why would it be you?

IDK. I guess because I could see a WF fan being offended for suggesting Batman may have a hand in boosting Superman's popularity.

Haha no, I assure you, it wasn't that. I'm just irritated at this portrayal of a Batman-GL relationship, when the traditional World's Finest one is far more entertaining and my preferred duo.

#14 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

To be honest, I don't think this is it.

I think he's trying to make himself more popular, since the majority of Bat fans have turned on him for his obvious Batman-hatred. By pairing Batman up with his pet character (who has stopped being his pet character in many ways, he's moved onto Aquaman, Cyborg and Sinestro now), he's saying "hey look, Batman fans, I'm cool, I think Batman and Hal would be friends!"

Except, he uses Hal to insult Batman or disrespect him, ignores Cyborg--for the most part--and is bringing Hal back to the league. I think Aquaman will probably do less on Justice League now that Throne of Atlantis is done, but who knows? Maybe he'll write Aquaman for 7 more years?

This is Johns though, just because he wants to do something, doesn't mean he'll do it well. He's an idiot, after all.

#15 Posted by JohnnyGat (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

He said dynamics not really friendship. The dynamic could just as well represent the dynamic at least from a respect or lack thereof perspective. From what I remember of the first arc if the JL in the new 52 the dynamic was simply that of two very willful individuals clashing yet working together. It makes sense given that the examples that was mentioned in the video would emphasize a different type of dynamic within the characters. Batman and GL (a conflicting dynamic), Supes and WW (given their push as a power couple, a romantic dynamic) and Cyborg and Shazam (the friendship dynamic).

#16 Posted by entropy_aegis (14123 posts) - - Show Bio

Nah he's trying to get back in us Batman fans good books,too late Johns.

You can write Catwoman as well as you want,you can write a Nightwing event,you can use D-list Batman villains(Outsider,Copperhead) well but unless you write Batman well you'll always be a Batman hater.

#17 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahhhhhhh, nothing starts the day off better than a nice cup of thinly veiled Hal hate. i have to say though this was rather weak though. their are much worse things that you could be blaming Hal for. one example, Hal was "reborn" in 2004, the same year as the tsunami in Beslan! coincidence? I THINK NOT!!!!!! the BIG PICTURE Outlaw.....ya gotta look at it. LOL

Now, in all seriousness

Everyone hitches their wagon to Batman eventually. I believe it was Keith Giffen who drew parallels between Tony Stark and Hal. I'm interested that Hal's coming back though. i'd rather see his friendship with Barry fleshed out under a new writer. or maybe get someone new like Martian Manhunter or somesuch.

He said dynamics not really friendship. The dynamic could just as well represent the dynamic at least from a respect or lack thereof perspective. From what I remember of the first arc if the JL in the new 52 the dynamic was simply that of two very willful individuals clashing yet working together. It makes sense given that the examples that was mentioned in the video would emphasize a different type of dynamic within the characters. Batman and GL (a conflicting dynamic), Supes and WW (given their push as a power couple, a romantic dynamic) and Cyborg and Shazam (the friendship dynamic).

This pretty much. OP dislikes Hal though and we all tend to distort or exaggerate our views on characters we don't dislike at times.

#18 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

@slade_wilson: Johns does not get Wonder Woman at all. I don't think he gets Batman either.

#19 Posted by lilben42 (2487 posts) - - Show Bio

Johns pushes everything he thinks is a good idea.

#20 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

To be honest, I don't think this is it.

I think he's trying to make himself more popular, since the majority of Bat fans have turned on him for his obvious Batman-hatred. By pairing Batman up with his pet character (who has stopped being his pet character in many ways, he's moved onto Aquaman, Cyborg and Sinestro now), he's saying "hey look, Batman fans, I'm cool, I think Batman and Hal would be friends!"

i wouldn't be surprised if this is it. then again, how do we even know they'll be on the same team.

#21 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

Same reason Cyborg is always around Batman.

I'd rather see Hal/Barry be fleshed out and bring back the Trinity friendship.

#22 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

If he really liked Superman, he wouldn't have turned him into a statue in the first year of JL.

#23 Posted by Wolverine08 (38190 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_ said:

If he really liked Superman, he wouldn't have turned him into a statue in the first year of JL.

Johns doesn't like anybody but Hal. Don't expect anybody but him to be in character with Johns writing.

Online
#24 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_ said:

If he really liked Superman, he wouldn't have turned him into a statue in the first year of JL.

Johns doesn't like anybody but Hal. Don't expect anybody but him to be in character with Johns writing.

Sad....His Superman run was entertaining.

#25 Posted by Justthatkid (2370 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

Same reason Cyborg is always around Batman.

I'd rather see Hal/Barry be fleshed out and bring back the Trinity friendship.

As great as the trinity is for Wonder Woman I'd rather them not they should show each character, giving a member a friendship with Batman is a smart idea as long as it's not over used. I personally never liked the fact that the 3 out-shined very member of the league, I'd rather them be shown all as equals in some way.

#26 Posted by StrangeMan (407 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know and don't particularly care, but I do know that they've showed 2 minutes of character interaction and it's already more organic and natural than Johns' entire JL run.

Tucker you've done it again.

#27 Edited by lifeofvibe (3407 posts) - - Show Bio

Its sad when awesome talent is wasted on a Batman hater or a hater for any character because that character wil ultimately get SH_TED on by the writer that's a bad thing when it comes down to it. well at least at least theres always have Kyle rayner to bad he ain't on the justice league then everybody every character gets treated as equals

#28 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2213 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy said:

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

Same reason Cyborg is always around Batman.

I'd rather see Hal/Barry be fleshed out and bring back the Trinity friendship.

As great as the trinity is for Wonder Woman I'd rather them not they should show each character, giving a member a friendship with Batman is a smart idea as long as it's not over used. I personally never liked the fact that the 3 out-shined very member of the league, I'd rather them be shown all as equals in some way.

I never said that they should be shown on a pedestal above everyone else. I think its important to establish the friendship that is between the 3 of them.

#29 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8289 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: Sorry dear, but the relationship between Batman and Green Lantern is exploited since Karl Kesel wrote Final Night, when it was still Parallax and Bruce didn't agree with his methods, since this situation that this ''almost hate relationship'' was born which Geoff John revisited in Green Lantern: Reborn where Hal punched him because of what happened in the past and was revisited again in his own ongoing, for the final reckoning between them.

And it is common knowledge that they don't like each other , but respected each other because they're valuable people regardless of their past mistakes and egos. Now it's time to take advantage of this reboot, to give them a new beginning, a new dynamic group because after all they are the most human and believe it is more because of that than for anything else.

Forgetting my formal education Geoff Johns is Hal Jordan's fanboy much as you're John Stewart's fanboy,just because you hate Hal Jordan soemone to like him has to be a fanboy.

#30 Posted by Black_Claw (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_ said:

If he really liked Superman, he wouldn't have turned him into a statue in the first year of JL.

Johns doesn't like anybody but Hal. Don't expect anybody but him to be in character with Johns writing.

Funny because throughout Origin, Hal was saying stuff I'd expect to come out of Guy Gardener's mouth.

#31 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: Sorry dear, but the relationship between Batman and Green Lantern is exploited since Ron Marz wrote Final Night, when it was still Parallax and Bruce didn't agree with his methods, since this situation that this ''almost hate relationship'' was born which Geoff John revisited in Green Lantern: Reborn where Hal punched him because of what happened in the past and was revisited again in his own ongoing, for the final reckoning between them.

And it is common knowledge that they don't like each other , but respected each other because they're valuable people regardless of their past mistakes and egos. Now it's time to take advantage of this reboot, to give them a new beginning, a new dynamic group because after all they are the most human and believe it is more because of that than for anything else.

Forgetting my formal education Geoff Johns is Hal Jordan's fanboy much as you're John Stewart's fanboy,just because you hate Hal Jordan soemone to like him has to be a fanboy.

First off, Karl Kesel wrote Final Night. are you possibly referring to Emerald Twilight? Bruce actually forgave at his funeral. Geoff resurrected the antagonism between the two Day Of Judgement. then another writer had them make up again. and then John resurrected it yet again in Rebirth.

#32 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8289 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: My mistake about Ron Marz and Karl Kesel,the disagreement happened in Final Night before Hal Jordan kill the Sun-Eater. Even with some wrong points, changes nothing about what I said

#33 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: My mistake about Ron Marz and Karl Kesel,the disagreement happened in Final Night before Hal Jordan kill the Sun-Eater. Even with some wrong points, changes nothing about what I said

not entirely. id say you're exaggerating the importance/longevity of Hal and Bruce's clashes but thats pretty much it.

#34 Posted by Veshark (9057 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: My mistake about Ron Marz and Karl Kesel,the disagreement happened in Final Night before Hal Jordan kill the Sun-Eater. Even with some wrong points, changes nothing about what I said

not entirely. id say you're exaggerating the importance/longevity of Hal and Bruce's clashes but thats pretty much it.

If I recall, Brad Meltzer also made Bruce have a slight enmity or distrust of Hal in his JL run.

#35 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8289 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: If you think so,since you failed to understand my point,is why he write this dynamic between them to change that old status.

#36 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@matchesmalone21 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: My mistake about Ron Marz and Karl Kesel,the disagreement happened in Final Night before Hal Jordan kill the Sun-Eater. Even with some wrong points, changes nothing about what I said

not entirely. id say you're exaggerating the importance/longevity of Hal and Bruce's clashes but thats pretty much it.

If I recall, Brad Meltzer also made Bruce have a slight enmity or distrust of Hal in his JL run.

true, Bruce DID want another Lantern on the team at first.

#37 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: If you think so,since you failed to understand my point,is why he write this dynamic between them to change that old status.

ok, i get you're point. you're initial post was a bit unclear to me.

#38 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8289 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: This is no exaggeration, the fact is, almost all are writers, wrote the two that way making it an important part of their relationship. . Remember if the Justice League: Cry for Justice that he admitted to the Green Arrow, he did not like Batman, but still respected

#39 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt: This is no exaggeration, the fact is, almost all are writers, wrote the two that way making it an important part of their relationship. . Remember if the Justice League: Cry for Justice that he admitted to the Green Arrow, he did not like Batman, but still respected

almost all the writers? seriously? you are aware that the two characters have existed for over half a decade? Bruce and Hal got along fine until the post-Parallax stuff. Bruce made Hal leader of the JLI in the early 90's even. Hal also admits during the beginning of Blackest Night that despite their arguments they were still friends.

#40 Edited by TheAuroraChild (85 posts) - - Show Bio

Who gave Geoff Johns so much power in the first place? I want a word with his boss.

#41 Posted by Lvenger (17906 posts) - - Show Bio

@martianmanhunterisbetterthancy: I agree as well. I prefer Hal to Wonder Woman but Wonder Woman compliments the trinity far better than Hal does.

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

To be honest, I don't think this is it.

I think he's trying to make himself more popular, since the majority of Bat fans have turned on him for his obvious Batman-hatred. By pairing Batman up with his pet character (who has stopped being his pet character in many ways, he's moved onto Aquaman, Cyborg and Sinestro now), he's saying "hey look, Batman fans, I'm cool, I think Batman and Hal would be friends!"

Another pearl of wisdom from you Fade. It's funny how well you know the workings of a writer you despise greatly :P

@fadetoblackbolt said:

@lvenger said:

He's trying to use Batman as a springboard for making Hal more popular. Nothing new there in Johns' lack of understanding for Batman.

To be honest, I don't think this is it.

I think he's trying to make himself more popular, since the majority of Bat fans have turned on him for his obvious Batman-hatred. By pairing Batman up with his pet character (who has stopped being his pet character in many ways, he's moved onto Aquaman, Cyborg and Sinestro now), he's saying "hey look, Batman fans, I'm cool, I think Batman and Hal would be friends!"

i wouldn't be surprised if this is it. then again, how do we even know they'll be on the same team.

Johns has confirmed that Hal will be back in Justice League soon enough during Forever Evil. But apparently OA and the GLC won't care about Forever Evil. Of course I could be wrong and some GLs might show up.

#42 Posted by RustyRoy (10717 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope after Trinity Wars Batman quits the Justice League and forms his own team separate from Superman, WW and Hal.

#43 Posted by sinestro_GL (3030 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

I hope after Trinity Wars Batman quits the Justice League and forms his own team separate from Superman, WW and Hal.

Been there, read that.

Batman and the Outsiders

#44 Posted by RustyRoy (10717 posts) - - Show Bio

@sinestro_gl: Everything what Johns has done so far has been done before and Batman in a JL team has been done before too, with a new team I think they can make it different from the Outsiders .

#45 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8289 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: This is no exaggeration, the fact is, almost all are writers, wrote the two that way making it an important part of their relationship. . Remember if the Justice League: Cry for Justice that he admitted to the Green Arrow, he did not like Batman, but still respected

almost all the writers? seriously? you are aware that the two characters have existed for over half a decade? Bruce and Hal got along fine until the post-Parallax stuff. Bruce made Hal leader of the JLI in the early 90's even. Hal also admits during the beginning of Blackest Night that despite their arguments they were still friends.

Again responding without considering anything, tyou give yourself some time to think about it or have answers right away? After Green Lantern: Rebirth how the two writers wrote as if they were like amost hate relationship? Is not because they don't bear each other, doesn't mean they can't be friends or can't respect each other, friendship has all these moments and how times many Batman and Superman were like this.

I'm aware of it,don't treat me like as if I had never read comics in my life, do not need that kind of foolish lessons

#46 Posted by matchesmalone21 (8289 posts) - - Show Bio

@matchesmalone21 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: This is no exaggeration, the fact is, almost all are writers, wrote the two that way making it an important part of their relationship. . Remember if the Justice League: Cry for Justice that he admitted to the Green Arrow, he did not like Batman, but still respected

almost all the writers? seriously? you are aware that the two characters have existed for over half a decade? Bruce and Hal got along fine until the post-Parallax stuff. Bruce made Hal leader of the JLI in the early 90's even. Hal also admits during the beginning of Blackest Night that despite their arguments they were still friends.

Again responding without considering anything, tyou give yourself some time to think about it or have answers right away? After Green Lantern: Rebirth how the two writers wrote as if they were like amost hate relationship? Is not because they don't bear each other, doesn't mean they can't be friends or can't respect each other, friendship has all these moments and how times many Batman and Superman were like this.

I'm aware of it,don't treat me like as if I had never read comics in my life, do not need that kind of foolish lessons

#47 Edited by sinestro_GL (3030 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy said:

@sinestro_gl: Everything what Johns has done so far has been done before and Batman in a JL team has been done before too, with a new team I think they can make it different from the Outsiders .

I assume you're just talking about JL, right?

#48 Posted by RustyRoy (10717 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by Reignmaker (2226 posts) - - Show Bio

When is Geoff Johns going to go away? I would really like to see Justice League handled by someone else.

#50 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12420 posts) - - Show Bio

@avenging_x_bolt said:

@matchesmalone21 said:

@avenging_x_bolt: This is no exaggeration, the fact is, almost all are writers, wrote the two that way making it an important part of their relationship. . Remember if the Justice League: Cry for Justice that he admitted to the Green Arrow, he did not like Batman, but still respected

almost all the writers? seriously? you are aware that the two characters have existed for over half a decade? Bruce and Hal got along fine until the post-Parallax stuff. Bruce made Hal leader of the JLI in the early 90's even. Hal also admits during the beginning of Blackest Night that despite their arguments they were still friends.

Again responding without considering anything, tyou give yourself some time to think about it or have answers right away?

true but then again, most of my time is spent trying to decipher what you've written

After Green Lantern: Rebirth how the two writers wrote as if they were like almost hate relationship?

is this a statement? a question? i have no idea what this is.

Is not because they don't bear each other, doesn't mean they can't be friends or can't respect each other, friendship has all these moments and how times many Batman and Superman were like this.u

I understand this. i actually kind blatantly stated it in my comment. i have no idea why you're repeating it. whatever, im done with this conversation my initial point was obviously missed by you and i have no idea how to explain to you without coming off as an ass.

I'm aware of it,don't treat me like as if I had never read comics in my life, do not need that kind of foolish lessons