#1 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Disclaimer: I am a big Wonder Woman fan, and I do not want to change the Trinity or to start a flame war. I understand the importance of Wonder Woman in comics and other media as a feminine icon, and this article is not intended to be a slight against Wonder Woman. This is a forum for peaceful dialogue.

Something that I found interesting circa 2011 was all of the talk about how Green Lantern should replace Wonder Woman in DC's Trinity. I argued against it for a few reasons, mainly for the fact that Green Lantern was a science hero. You see, I believe that there are thee ways a hero can have power: genetics (Superman/Captain America), technology (Batman/Iron Man), and magic (Wonder Woman/Thor). Each of these should be represented in the trinity, so if you want GL to be in there, then he would have to replace Superman, which shouldn't happen since Superman is the first superhero. Also, which Green Lantern should replace Wonder Woman? None of them is as well known as she is. All of this replacement talk ended after the Green Lantern film flopped, so I feel like I was on the right side of history.

But now, I'm here to start it all up again! Except this time, I'm going to say that Aquaman could replace Wonder Woman symbolically in the Trinity. By symbolically, I mean he could be a better fit for the trichotomy needed for a legendary group like the trinity. You see, Wonder Woman is not the best symbolic fit in the group because there's not easy iconic way to describe her position. Superman is Light. Batman is Dark. And Wonder Woman is? Just right? In the middle? The toke female? The Amazon? None of those really juxtaposes against light or dark well.

On the other hand, there are several iconic abstracts that Superman/Batman/Aquaman could be broken into like Zeus/Hades/Poseidon or Sky/Underworld/Sea. There's also Greatness Thrust Upon (Superman), Greatness Achieved (Batman), and Greatness Born (Aquaman). You could break them down according to Max Weber's three types of authority: Charismatic/Superman, Rational/Batman, and Traditional/Aquaman. And if you look at their color schemes, you can see that they are more different than the current Trinity. Wonder Woman and Superman wear a lot of the same colors. On the other hand, Superman, Batman, and Aquaman have one color in common (Yellow), and two personal colors (Red/Blue, Black/Grey, and Orange/Green). Their names are alphabetical A (Arthur), B (Bruce), C (Clark). They have the three types of story telling found in pulp magazines and comics: Sci Fi/Mystery/Fantasy. They have the three power origins (genetics, technology, and magic). All three come from families with power (House of El, House of Wayne, and House of Atlan). All three date back to the golden age (1939/Superman, 1940/Batman, and 1941/Aquaman). These three heroes have had more sidekicks of both genders than any other hero. One grew up in a rural area (Superman), one grew up in a suburban area (Aquaman), and the other grew up in an urban area (Batman). All three have human archenemies (Lex, Joker, Manta). In my opinion, these three are as great as a symbolic trinity gets.

#2 Posted by Teerack (9602 posts) - - Show Bio

Brace your self.The fan boys are coming.

#3 Posted by JonSmith (4231 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm... You make good points. I agree. While trying to change the Trinity is a fools errand (they've been around too long unchanging to ever be truly changed in the minds of the fans) Aquaman does admittedly fit the space better than Wonder Woman. Hell, you can go a step further and give them the Navy S.E.A.L.S motto: "By land (Batman), sea, (Aquaman), or air (Superman)." They even have the obvious similarity in that each of them has a name ending with 'man'.

Then again, if you take Wonder Woman out of the Trinity, even if you leave her as a Leaguer, she just doesn't have much GOING for her. Sure she's an awesome Amazon with a ton of history, but I feel if you took her away from the Trinity, away from being front and center alongside Bats and Clark, she'll just end up being relegated to the background as a B or even C-List hero, like Marvel's own Hercules (COME AT ME, !)

#4 Edited by PowerHerc (86141 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Hm... You make good points. I agree. While trying to change the Trinity is a fools errand (they've been around too long unchanging to ever be truly changed in the minds of the fans) Aquaman does admittedly fit the space better than Wonder Woman. Hell, you can go a step further and give them the Navy S.E.A.L.S motto: "By land (Batman), sea, (Aquaman), or air (Superman)." They even have the obvious similarity in that each of them has a name ending with 'man'.

Those are fine points indeed. Quite rational, to be sure.

Then again, if you take Wonder Woman out of the Trinity, even if you leave her as a Leaguer, she just doesn't have much GOING for her. Sure she's an awesome Amazon with a ton of history, but I feel if you took her away from the Trinity, away from being front and center alongside Bats and Clark, she'll just end up being relegated to the background as a B or even C-List hero, like Marvel's own Hercules (COME AT ME, !)

And this bit of humor is nice, too. Lol.

#5 Posted by 202122 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

I wont even bother explaining why you're wrong...so i leave it with this:

#6 Posted by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

The OP makes sense to me.

#7 Posted by Dark_Guyver (2577 posts) - - Show Bio

I could go for Supes/Bats/Aquaman as the Trinity.

#8 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

Kinda superficial, don't you think? I mean on one hand, Wonder Woman actually does fit some of the criteria you laid out for Aquaman (Magic, traditional, greatness born, etc). On the other, those criteria are meaningless because none of them actually help Arthur find himself in a trinity between Batman and Superman any better than Diana did. Light, Darkness and... Sea, doesn't have any better ring to it. And there's really nothing about what colors they wear, where they grew up, what families they're from, how many sidekicks they had (as a note, Superman doesn't have any. He has people using his name, not working with him), or what race their archenemies they are that makes them any better foils for each other. They're just meaningless coincidences.

Not that Green Lantern, or Flash, or Cyborg or Martian Manhunter or anyone else would work better. If you feel that Wonder Woman is shoehorned in, that's only because there is one glaring problem with DC's Trinity: It doesn't exist. What exists is a dichotomy between Superman and Batman which doesn't really allow for a third point of view. No other character can stand opposite both of them for it to be an actual trinity, he can only stand in the middle, mediating between the two. That's why it seems like Wonder Woman doesn't her own iconic description or juxtaposition. The setup between her peers won't allow it. She's not supposed to be the third corner of DC's triangle, she's supposed to be the middle point between two extreme views, the Kirk to their Spock and McCoy, if you will. In this sense being the token chick actually works for her because gender is one dichotomy Batman and Superman cannot cover on their own and which allows her to stand against both of them, something no other member of the JLA can do. Put Aquaman or Green Lantern in there and they'd just try to butt heads with both of them, and naturally they'd loose and be pushed out.

#9 Edited by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

Kinda superficial, don't you think? I mean on one hand, Wonder Woman actually does fit some of the criteria you laid out for Aquaman (Magic, traditional, greatness born, etc). On the other, those criteria are meaningless because none of them actually help Arthur find himself in a trinity between Batman and Superman any better than Diana did. Light, Darkness and... Sea, doesn't have any better ring to it. And there's really nothing about what colors they wear, where they grew up, what families they're from, how many sidekicks they had (as a note, Superman doesn't have any. He has people using his name, not working with him), or what race their archenemies they are that makes them any better foils for each other. They're just meaningless coincidences.

Not that Green Lantern, or Flash, or Cyborg or Martian Manhunter or anyone else would work better. If you feel that Wonder Woman is shoehorned in, that's only because there is one glaring problem with DC's Trinity: It doesn't exist. What exists is a dichotomy between Superman and Batman which doesn't really allow for a third point of view. No other character can stand opposite both of them for it to be an actual trinity, he can only stand in the middle, mediating between the two. That's why it seems like Wonder Woman doesn't her own iconic description or juxtaposition. The setup between her peers won't allow it. She's not supposed to be the third corner of DC's triangle, she's supposed to be the middle point between two extreme views, the Kirk to their Spock and McCoy, if you will. In this sense being the token chick actually works for her because gender is one dichotomy Batman and Superman cannot cover on their own and which allows her to stand against both of them, something no other member of the JLA can do. Put Aquaman or Green Lantern in there and they'd just try to butt heads with both of them, and naturally they'd loose and be pushed out.

What about the Zeus/Hades/Poseidon trichotomy or the Sky/Land/Sea trichotomy?

The fact that the three would be a triangle without a central mediation point adds drama and conflict to their interactions, which makes it remarkable when they work together. It's like the entire Earth coming down on an enemy.

#10 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: My point is that they can't be a triangle at all. Batman and Superman represent the two extremes of the Superhero world in every way. Aquaman can't make himself the third extreme, he can only locate himself somewhere along the Superman-Batman scale.

The land/sea/air division isn't interesting because it's meaningless. It would be great if they actually were Zeus, Hades and Poseidon, but they're not. They're not kings protecting their realms (Well, Aquaman is, but that's rather meaningless on its own), they're superheroes protecting the innocent. To divide them along those lines would add absolutely nothing to their characters and would just be shoehorning them into roles they aren't meant to play.

Moreover, there really is no land/air distinction between Batman and Superman. Just because Superman can fly and Batman's base is under ground doesn't make them kings of the elements.

#11 Edited by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Captain13: My point is that they can't be a triangle at all. Batman and Superman represent the two extremes of the Superhero world in every way. Aquaman can't make himself the third extreme, he can only locate himself somewhere along the Superman-Batman scale.

The land/sea/air division isn't interesting because it's meaningless. It would be great if they actually were Zeus, Hades and Poseidon, but they're not. They're not kings protecting their realms (Well, Aquaman is, but that's rather meaningless on its own), they're superheroes protecting the innocent. To divide them along those lines would add absolutely nothing to their characters and would just be shoehorning them into roles they aren't meant to play.

Moreover, there really is no land/air distinction between Batman and Superman. Just because Superman can fly and Batman's base is under ground doesn't make them kings of the elements.

But Batman and Superman aren't at extremes. It's not like Batman kills. At the end of the day, they do the same thing. They are just comparative abstracts, so a triangle does work. And if they were written as a triangle, the three kings thing could be interesting. For example, if New Krypton were done today, Superman could take the side of New Krypton, Batman could take the side of Earth, and Aquaman could take the side of Atlantis. Or they could have leaderhsip disputes on the JLA that represent their realms. Superman can fly over borders, so he wants the JLA to be involved in the entire world. Batman is grounded. He prefers to work locally and in the shadows if given the option. Aquaman has his own borders, so he wants the JLA to help more with seas and coasts, but he doesn't go as far as Superman. There's a lot you can do with this--especially if you create paralells between the JLA and Greek mythology.

#12 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

But Batman and Superman aren't at extremes. It's not like Batman kills. At the end of the day, they do the same thing. They are just comparative abstracts, so a triangle does work.

That's because they're both idealistic extremes. Just like all the other DC heroes are.

Let's make a simple a thought exercise. Imagine a scenario where the trinity (Batman, Superman and whoever else) will disagree on principle, with each member having their own distinct opinion that isn't a middle ground between the other two. I guarantee it's harder than it sounds.

I'll respond to tomorrow, heading to bed now.

#13 Edited by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Captain13 said:

But Batman and Superman aren't at extremes. It's not like Batman kills. At the end of the day, they do the same thing. They are just comparative abstracts, so a triangle does work.

That's because they're both idealistic extremes. Just like all the other DC heroes are.

Let's make a simple a thought exercise. Imagine a scenario where the trinity (Batman, Superman and whoever else) will disagree on principle, with each member having their own distinct opinion that isn't a middle ground between the other two. I guarantee it's harder than it sounds.

I'll respond to tomorrow, heading to bed now.

Here's one such scenario: a terrorist attacks a city. Superman wants to do his job in a way that will get people to trust him and to feel hope, so that they can find a remedy to social ills like terrorism. Batman wants to do his job in a way that will get terrorists to fear him, so that there will be a fear of doing terrorist attacks. Aquaman just wants to do his job. He isn't out to inspire people because he knows that dramatic examples only stir people for short periods. He doesn't use fear because he knows that it doesn't really deter crime since criminals don't expect to get caught. So he just does his job, and he tries to lead. Batman and Superman are about influencing hearts/minds. Aquaman is not. He's used to being in charge and taking action without thinking of ideology. He does. That's your three way divide.

Also, Superman forgives. Batman seeks legal justice. Aquaman can be angered into committing outright murder. Comic fans wonder why Batman and Superman don't just kill people like Joker and Lex. It's because the are idealistic to the extreme. Aquaman is not. He's willing to put an end to those who threaten life.

Good night.

P.S.

As for families:

Super Family

Bat Family

Aqua Family

These three are pretty expansive.

#14 Posted by SC (15020 posts) - - Show Bio

Great blog and ideas. For myself, I think however a smart, intelligent considerate person could rationally elaborate a number of different trinity combinations and justify it by virtue of metaphor, parallels, symbolism and so on. Hence this combination lays no claims on exclusivity in that sense, and perfect equilibrium isn't really the goal either, , you could say the inconsistency is what helps cause friction, tension and excitement, then again to me as well if Superman is Light and Batman is Dark, then Wonder Woman would be the Balance, as far as that particular break down. I mean alternatively sure we can dismiss Batman as the.. (Gimp?) between the Female/Woman and the Male/Man which is a balance thus Batman should be replaced with a character with no gender or sex but uh... to me the title is telling, since the word "may" is easy like that. Some characters may be better fits, replacing any of the characters in the trinity, so asking who could and why is fun, but it feels a bit artificial. Sort of like arguing that a DC Octagon would make much more sense, and adding a bunch of other characters in that can speak of metaphors, allegories, balance and so on (Superman is the Dove, Batman is the Bat, Wonder Woman is the Eagle, Aquaman is the Seagull, Flash is the Hummingbird, Green Lantern is the... Dodo? etc) hence why the Octagon may be a better fit than the Trinity... except it didn't really just rise as organically as the Trinity.

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#15 Posted by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC: Good points.

#16 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (14776 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

Great blog and ideas. For myself, I think however a smart, intelligent considerate person could rationally elaborate a number of different trinity combinations and justify it by virtue of metaphor, parallels, symbolism and so on. Hence this combination lays no claims on exclusivity in that sense, and perfect equilibrium isn't really the goal either, , you could say the inconsistency is what helps cause friction, tension and excitement, then again to me as well if Superman is Light and Batman is Dark, then Wonder Woman would be the Balance, as far as that particular break down. I mean alternatively sure we can dismiss Batman as the.. (Gimp?) between the Female/Woman and the Male/Man which is a balance thus Batman should be replaced with a character with no gender or sex but uh... to me the title is telling, since the word "may" is easy like that. Some characters may be better fits, replacing any of the characters in the trinity, so asking who could and why is fun, but it feels a bit artificial. Sort of like arguing that a DC Octagon would make much more sense, and adding a bunch of other characters in that can speak of metaphors, allegories, balance and so on (Superman is the Dove, Batman is the Bat, Wonder Woman is the Eagle, Aquaman is the Seagull, Flash is the Hummingbird, Green Lantern is the... Dodo? etc) hence why the Octagon may be a better fit than the Trinity... except it didn't really just rise as organically as the Trinity.

you're a dodo *pouty face*

anyway, i guess the op makes sense, i still prefer Wonder Woman

#17 Posted by sethysquare (3965 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

I wont even bother explaining why you're wrong...so i leave it with this:

you should read the current Aquaman run

#18 Posted by darkman61288 (891 posts) - - Show Bio

My thing about the trinity is that should be made up of the three most popular characters. No one character deserves to be in the trinity. Not Batman, Not Superman Not Wonder Woman or Not Aquaman. If Cockroachman, the Big Breasted Beauty and Duperman are the most popular characters than they are the trinity.

Also Really Wonder Woman part of the Super family. No NO NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

#19 Posted by entropy_aegis (16063 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: Um Wonder Woman is part of the Superman family now?@AtPhantom said:

Kinda superficial, don't you think? I mean on one hand, Wonder Woman actually does fit some of the criteria you laid out for Aquaman (Magic, traditional, greatness born, etc). On the other, those criteria are meaningless because none of them actually help Arthur find himself in a trinity between Batman and Superman any better than Diana did. Light, Darkness and... Sea, doesn't have any better ring to it. And there's really nothing about what colors they wear, where they grew up, what families they're from, how many sidekicks they had (as a note, Superman doesn't have any. He has people using his name, not working with him), or what race their archenemies they are that makes them any better foils for each other. They're just meaningless coincidences.

Not that Green Lantern, or Flash, or Cyborg or Martian Manhunter or anyone else would work better. If you feel that Wonder Woman is shoehorned in, that's only because there is one glaring problem with DC's Trinity: It doesn't exist. What exists is a dichotomy between Superman and Batman which doesn't really allow for a third point of view. No other character can stand opposite both of them for it to be an actual trinity, he can only stand in the middle, mediating between the two. That's why it seems like Wonder Woman doesn't her own iconic description or juxtaposition. The setup between her peers won't allow it. She's not supposed to be the third corner of DC's triangle, she's supposed to be the middle point between two extreme views, the Kirk to their Spock and McCoy, if you will. In this sense being the token chick actually works for her because gender is one dichotomy Batman and Superman cannot cover on their own and which allows her to stand against both of them, something no other member of the JLA can do. Put Aquaman or Green Lantern in there and they'd just try to butt heads with both of them, and naturally they'd loose and be pushed out.

Geoff Johns hates you.

#20 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3296 posts) - - Show Bio

That's..makes sense..

#21 Posted by Veshark (9326 posts) - - Show Bio

Personally, I wouldn't want to replace Wonder Woman as a member of the so-called Trinity. Although her real-life popularity and role as the 'token female' are regrettable, her place in the Trinity just feels iconic. When you think of the Big Three, you view them as the leaders of the entire superhero community and I think Diana's a big part of that.

That being said, this blog post (and posts mentioned by others) make a surprisingly convincing argument for Aquaman. Much of it is largely symbolic (The Zeus-Hades-Poseidon comparison, the power origins bit, the land-sea-air thing) and arguably superficial, but there are some pretty rational opinions here too. makes a very interesting juxtaposition between the three characters' modus operandis and their personalities.

I don't really have anything else to add to the conversation, but I'd definitely like to see some rebuttals in Wonder Woman's favor. Just wanted to say this thread makes for some interesting food for thought. Looking forward to where this goes.

#22 Posted by guttridgeb (4881 posts) - - Show Bio

It does make sense, not that I approve though :P

#23 Posted by lilben42 (2700 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veshark: Agreed. WW, Supes, and Batman are all leaders and all are the best at what they do. They are the people other B-listers and C- lister heroes go to when they need help or something. While Aquaman could work I don't think it would work out in the long run.

#24 Posted by AtPhantom (14434 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

For example, if New Krypton were done today, Superman could take the side of New Krypton, Batman could take the side of Earth, and Aquaman could take the side of Atlantis.

The problem with this, which ties into the "They're not kings" issue (besides the fact that Atlantis is on Earth thus pointlessly dividing when fighting other planets) is that unlike Aquaman, Superman and Batman don't speak for their "realms". Aquaman is the king of the seas and thus has a political obligation to it. Superman and Batman do not. he entire land/sea/air distinction is simply not a natural one for them. It's telling that the first idea that comes to your mind would have to introduce an entire new setting into the mix and radically, fundamentally alter Superman's story in order for the triangle to become viable. Even then, it's not perfect match because there would be no reason for Superman to choose New Krypton over Earth (And indeed, he spent much of the NK arc not siding, but trying to balance between the two world and his own natures. You'd have him tip the scales to one end which is great for trinity, but sucks for Superman).

and is an attempt to conform Superman and Batman to Aquaman's situation. Hence the problems with your further points:

Superman can fly over borders, so he wants the JLA to be involved in the entire world.

Except when he can't, because we've seen countries try to keep him. There was even the example (Stupid as it was) of him renouncing his citizenship because of all the political flak he's picked up doing so.

@Captain13 said:

Batman is grounded. He prefers to work locally and in the shadows if given the option.

Except he really isn't, he's shown time and time again he doesn't give a damn about borders in pursuit of his prey. Just recently we've had the Batman inc. storyline which had him set up Batmen all over the world.

Moreover, it would be a debate in which Batman and Aquaman don't have a leg to stand on because once again they're supposed to be world's greatest superheroes and to in any way limit themselves to a single region is to deny people the help anywhere in the world even when you have the ability to do so is something none of them would stand for. To divide them along those lines is not a character or philosophical distinction, it's a political one, and one that allows for very little useful drama before it turns completely stale.

@Captain13 said:

Here's one such scenario: a terrorist attacks a city. Superman wants to do his job in a way that will get people to trust him and to feel hope, so that they can find a remedy to social ills like terrorism. Batman wants to do his job in a way that will get terrorists to fear him, so that there will be a fear of doing terrorist attacks. Aquaman just wants to do his job. He isn't out to inspire people because he knows that dramatic examples only stir people for short periods. He doesn't use fear because he knows that it doesn't really deter crime since criminals don't expect to get caught. So he just does his job, and he tries to lead. Batman and Superman are about influencing hearts/minds. Aquaman is not. He's used to being in charge and taking action without thinking of ideology. He does. That's your three way divide.

First of all, I don't think that's a good scenario. Such philosophy comes into play when people's lives aren't at risk. In this instance, all three of them would agree that the first task is to stop the terrorists with a moments notice. Taking action is something all three would do without much thought for how it should play out until it's done.

Second, taking action without thinking of ideology is the middle ground. To be a triangle would require him to have his own ideology and be able to get into a shouting match with the other two. By refusing ideology you're selecting a neutral ground between two polarized opinions. Essentially you're just refusing and backing down before the other two.

Third, Aquaman is a king. If being a king doesn't require you to inspire hope in your people, inspire fear in the criminals and play with politics and ideologies I don't know what does. :P

@Captain13 said:

Also, Superman forgives. Batman seeks legal justice. Aquaman can be angered into committing outright murder. Comic fans wonder why Batman and Superman don't just kill people like Joker and Lex. It's because the are idealistic to the extreme. Aquaman is not. He's willing to put an end to those who threaten life.

Well, first of all Wonder Woman too, as of late fulfills that niche (I don't agree with it but there it is) so Aquaman isn't any better off in that regard.

Second, that's a pretty terrible distinction. Seriously, if your only claim to fame is that you kill people, why are you in the group that the entire superhero community looks up to? You can't claim part of what is perhaps the most influential and inspirational gathering in DC and simultaneously commit acts that would make literally every single mainstream DC hero go "What the hell, man?" Do you think Superman and Batman would let him do that to someone in their presence? They would kick his ass up and down the Pacific for it. Killing does not make you Trinity material.

@entropy_aegis said:

Geoff Johns hates you.

Well I kinda hate him too these days so it evens out. :)

#25 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (41167 posts) - - Show Bio
@sethysquare said:

@202122 said:

I wont even bother explaining why you're wrong...so i leave it with this:

you should read the current Aquaman run

Or any Aquaman run. 
 
@OutlawRenegade: I was with you until you put Jackson as Aquaman's Dick Grayson. Jackson is his Robin, Garth/Tempest is his Nightwing.
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#26 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23390 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@sethysquare said:

@202122 said:

I wont even bother explaining why you're wrong...so i leave it with this:

you should read the current Aquaman run

Or any Aquaman run.

Heh, this.

As for the OP. I respect the fact you've put thought into this, but come on.

#27 Posted by TDK_1997 (15983 posts) - - Show Bio

Not a bad idea but Wonder Woman is just a better fit in the team.She has the right character and there should always be a girl in every friend circle.

#28 Edited by colonyofcells (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

Trinity is just based on popularity. Supes, Bats and Wonder Woman first became the trinity bec. all the others got cancelled ending the golden age : Flash Jay Garrick axed, Green Lantern Alan Scott axed, etc. In the golden age, Hawkman, Aquaman, Green Arrow, did not have solo comics. Aquaman and Green Arrow only survived bec they were the back up features to the trinity. Creation of Barry Allen and Hal Jordan marked the beginning of the silver age. During the silver age, Aquaman and Hawkman finally got solo titles. During the silver age, Green Arrow never had a solo title and Hawkman faltered. During the bronze age, Green Lantern faltered and was just a backup in Flash for a while, Aquaman also faltered. For much of the bronze age, Aquaman was just a backup feature. During the bronze age, Wonder Woman cemented her place in the trinity with her popular live action tv show joining Supes and Bats as the only icons with a strong showing in other media. Flash, GL, Aquaman, green arrow and Hawkman did appear in the kids cartoons usually as part of groups. Towards the end of the bronze age, Green Arrow finally got a 4 issue mini series where he fought Vertigo and Hawkman finally got a regular series again bec of the success of the Shadow War Hawkman mini series. COIE was great for the icons bec. most of them got solo titles post coie. Unfortunately, in this long period, the Flash was Wally rather than the iconic Barry, and Kyle was also Green Lantern for a long time instead of the iconic Hal. In this long period the most memorable JLA was the JLA with Wally and Kyle. Post-coie, Green Arrow finally got a solo series. Aquaman series faltered often so most of the time, there was no solo Aquaman comic. Hawman series also faltered most of the time. Towards the end of this period, Geoff Johns made Green Lantern Hal more popular than Wonder Woman and brought back Barry Allen. Post-flashpoint, Green Lantern is still more popular than Wonder Woman and Green Lantern already got a movie and solo cartoon. Post flashpoint, the new trinity is Batman, Green Lantern Hal and Superman. Popularity of Flash Barry, Aquaman and Wonder Woman are far behind. Green Arrow and Hawkman were at the very bottom of the New 52. Hopefully, the new creative team can save Green Arrow and the cancelled Hawkman can come back in a solo series soon if JLA can promote Hawkman. Green Arrow got his first tv show altho Barry Allen had one earlier. During the time of Smallville tv show, the Aquaman pilot was not picked up unfortunately.

#29 Posted by Stormbox (2053 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

I wont even bother explaining why you're wrong...so i leave it with this:

Noob

#30 Posted by BlackWind (8882 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

I wont even bother explaining why you're wrong...so i leave it with this:

Lol, how typical.

#31 Posted by drgnx (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

To be continued in: Why This Article May Be A Better Fit In The Aquaman Forum Than The JLA Forum!

#32 Posted by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: The topic fits in this forum since it discusses 4 Justice League members: Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Superman. It also belongs in this forum because in the Aquaman forum, the responses would be more biased toward Aquaman.

#33 Edited by drgnx (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@drgnx: The topic fits in this forum since it discusses 4 Justice League members: Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Batman, and Superman. It also belongs in this forum because in the Aquaman forum, the responses would be more biased toward Aquaman.

I honestly wasn't dead serious, but If you're seriously going to try to rationalize the relevance to this thread...

The trinity and argument really have a minimal relationship with the JL other than coincidence. In fact, there have been times when these characters where not even on the JL, reasons which similarly would have little bearing to imply they should be removed from, or not be allowed to join, the trinity. There is nothing to prevent anyone from making similar arguments to characters outside the JL. If the OP was directed to the which 3 should should have a more dominant role within the JL, I would agree, but as the Trinity he speaks of is the relationship separate from the JL, I am inclined to disagree.

#34 Posted by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: That's kind of silly since the Trinity is often considered the leadership head of the Justice League, and the Justice League's nickname is "Trinity and Friends." For further evidence I point to the Justice League Unlimited opening that ended my centering on the Trinity and numerous Justice League runs. Also, Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben are not always in the fantastic four, but they are so tied to the team that you could have a thread titled "Why Black Panther is a better fit in FF than Reed" that centers on the five Marvek heroes I just mentioned and have it pertain to the FF or Fantastic Four thread. Your logic doesn't make sense.

#35 Edited by drgnx (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@drgnx: That's kind of silly since the Trinity is often considered the leadership head of the Justice League, and the Justice League's nickname is "Trinity and Friends."

As you said "often considered", but in no way necessarily. There have been comics outside of the JLA that have had references to just those 3 as well as comics where they have not been the leader of the JL. Do you know what coincidence means?

For further evidence I point to the Justice League Unlimited opening that ended my centering on the Trinity and numerous Justice League runs. Also, Reed, Sue, Johnny, and Ben are not always in the fantastic four, but they are so tied to the team that you could have a thread titled"Why Black Panther is a better fit in FF than Reed" that centers on the five Marvek heroes I just mentioned and have it pertain to the FF or Fantastic Four thread.

In what way does this counter my point? I'm pointing out that the trinity and JL concepts are not synonymous. How does pointing out the fact that characters, no longer on the team, are still often associated with it because of traditional/historical associations change the fact that being part of one group is not a requisite for another group.

Your logic doesn't make sense.

With the reasoning I've seen you use, I'm not surprised.

#36 Posted by JamesKM716 (2018 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dark_Guyver said:

I could go for Supes/Bats/Aquaman as the Trinity.
#37 Posted by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx said:

With the reasoning I've seen you use, I'm not surprised.

“Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.”

Eric Hoffer

#38 Edited by drgnx (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@drgnx said:

With the reasoning I've seen you use, I'm not surprised.

“Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.”

Eric Hoffer

@Captain13 said:

@drgnx: Your logic doesn't make sense.

"People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

George Herbert

#39 Posted by Captain13 (4347 posts) - - Show Bio

@drgnx: I don't get how I was rude. I didn't understand your logic. Period. You insulted my intelligence. There is a difference.

#40 Posted by drgnx (3601 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@drgnx: I don't get how I was rude. I didn't understand your logic. Period. You insulted my intelligence. There is a difference.

You referenced my logic, I referenced your reasoning, since the quality of reasoning is based directly on logic, I don't see the difference.

#41 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (10581 posts) - - Show Bio

But WE need a WOman in there somewhere you know.....

#42 Posted by Clark_EL (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Hm... You make good points. I agree. While trying to change the Trinity is a fools errand (they've been around too long unchanging to ever be truly changed in the minds of the fans) Aquaman does admittedly fit the space better than Wonder Woman. Hell, you can go a step further and give them the Navy S.E.A.L.S motto: "By land (Batman), sea, (Aquaman), or air (Superman)." They even have the obvious similarity in that each of them has a name ending with 'man'.

Then again, if you take Wonder Woman out of the Trinity, even if you leave her as a Leaguer, she just doesn't have much GOING for her. Sure she's an awesome Amazon with a ton of history, but I feel if you took her away from the Trinity, away from being front and center alongside Bats and Clark, she'll just end up being relegated to the background as a B or even C-List hero, like Marvel's own Hercules (COME AT ME, !)

I'm pretty sure that's the marines motto, but still good point.

#43 Posted by 202122 (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jonny_Anonymous: @BlackWind: @Stormbox: I know it's a bit of a mainstream view on Aquaman and i agree his current run has been home to some of the best writing in the New 52 but seriously...he's still a freaky fish guy

#44 Posted by Decoy Elite (30159 posts) - - Show Bio

@202122 said:

@Jonny_Anonymous: @BlackWind: @Stormbox: I know it's a bit of a mainstream view on Aquaman and i agree his current run has been home to some of the best writing in the New 52 but seriously...he's still a freaky fish guy

Aquaman once easily soloed a White Martian with telepathy.

He is a freaky fish BADASS.

#45 Posted by JonSmith (4231 posts) - - Show Bio

@Clark_EL said:

I'm pretty sure that's the marines motto, but still good point.

Eh, I knew it was the motto of one of the military organizations, so I did a quick Google Search and Navy S.E.A.L's popped up. Turns out 'S.E.A.L.'s stands for 'SEa, Air, and Land.' Toss it around, boom.

Though it's still entirely possible I was wrong. I got that information off Wikipedia, after all.

#46 Posted by Clark_EL (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: Actually technically you're right, but in the marines song/motto I think it says land, air, and sea. Also the marines have plane/Helicopters (air), Infantry/Tanks (land), and they work with the Navy and do amphibious operations (sea).

#47 Posted by Farwind (77 posts) - - Show Bio

The argument for Aquaman is more convincing than I'd like to admit.

Here's another way of thinking about it though, rather than the air/earth/sea division: We have Superman, the charismatic figurehead and leader; Wonder Woman, the military commander; and Batman for special ops. with that sort of division, rather than the Greek mythology division, the current trinity makes more sense (also, Aquaman still has a way to go PR wise before he could be accepted as a member of the trinity).

#48 Posted by Clark_EL (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll stick with Wonder Woman even though I like big A.

#49 Posted by ccraft (10894 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith:

Wonder Wo'man' unvalid point lol

@JonSmith said:

Hm... You make good points. I agree. While trying to change the Trinity is a fools errand (they've been around too long unchanging to ever be truly changed in the minds of the fans) Aquaman does admittedly fit the space better than Wonder Woman. Hell, you can go a step further and give them the Navy S.E.A.L.S motto: "By land (Batman), sea, (Aquaman), or air (Superman)." They even have the obvious similarity in that each of them has a name ending with 'man'.

Then again, if you take Wonder Woman out of the Trinity, even if you leave her as a Leaguer, she just doesn't have much GOING for her. Sure she's an awesome Amazon with a ton of history, but I feel if you took her away from the Trinity, away from being front and center alongside Bats and Clark, she'll just end up being relegated to the background as a B or even C-List hero, like Marvel's own Hercules (COME AT ME, !)

#50 Posted by flashpass (25 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought this would be a dumb article...but you actually completely won me over. Wow just give aquaman's trident magic lightning like his brother uses in the new 52 and I'm fine with him in the trinity. Just because Wonder Woman is iconic in the role doesn't mean she's a better fit.