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#1 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

SPOILERS

Superman defeated an army of Kryptonians on his own and completely destroyed Metropolis/Manhattan in a fight that lasted 45 minutes. So to justify a Justice League film, you need a threat MORE DANGEROUS than an army of Kryptonians...

Even if Batman were like this

there is no way that a guy like Batman could survive in an apocalyptic situation if Kryptonian-level-or-stronger bad guys are gunning for him. And if the army can't really hurt people like this, then Batman can't either. The only way I can see Batman being on a team like this if if the Justice League does not trust the government for support and if the team needs a tech guy.

Now I believe that in the MoS universe, Cyborg would make a much better tech guy because he has alien tech that allows him to connect with any kind of computer. This means that if you put the team in an Independence Day situation in which they need to hack alien computers, it would make more sense for Cyborg to do this than Batman. In addition, Cyborg is more durable than Batman is. BUT I am not crazy. There is no way the studios would choose Cyborg over Batman. And I know that putting Cyborg on the team completely takes away the purpose of Batman in this universe as the tech guy.

Some people may believe that all you need to do is make Batman the leader, but he'd still be too flimsy to be one who lives very long. At least Captain America could take a full on hit from Thor. Batman cannot take a full on hit from Superman. And I don't think anyone else on the team would think that following the orders of a guy in a Bat costume with no powers is a good idea--no matter how bad*** he is. I mean, Superman took down an entire invasion on his own. Does he really need to be bossed around?

Then there's the Flash... Superman and Faora were so fast that sometimes you couldn't seem them until they made contact with an enemy. I don't know how they could make Flash any faster while remaining somewhat visible. If they can't do this though than Flash looks pointless. It doesn't help that Quicksilver will be showing up in two different Marvel projects soon. It may be very difficult to make the Flash look impressive enough to be justified without being so overpowered that he doesn't need a team himself... Still Flash is too popular to not be in the movie, right?

Moving on to Green Lantern... Marvel is making a Richard Rider movie apparently... Richard Rider is a brown-haired test pilot who is inducted into the Nova Corps, an intergalactic peace keeping organization. Who does this remind you of? That's right--Hal Jordan. This fact and the fact that the Hal Jordan Green Lantern film was such a bomb make me think that we won't see Hal Jordan in the Justice League movie. In addition, without having a role for Cyborg since his role was given to Batman, there is a need for racial diversity on the team. Every major summer block buster (Transformers, Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Star Trek, Pacific Rim, etc.) has a black character to help expand the movie's demographic, which brings in more money for the studio. Expect to see John Stewart as the Green Lantern in the Justice League for these reasons.

Obviously Wonder Woman will be in it. And it seems like the studio wants Aquaman in it. But I don't see the roster being more than 6 characters in the first movie. Avengers only had 6 heroes and one of them was hardly even used...

There are a lot more problems for the Justice League project then I realize. I mean after Avengers and Man of Steel, people must be getting sick of alien invasions in these films. And there are only so many alien invasions a world can take... But there needs to be multiple bad guys for multiple heroes.

I say the studios should just use Aquaman, Ocean Master, and the Atlantians as the villains in the Justice League movie. Then have Aquaman switch sides at the end.

In sum, Justice League is going to be a hard movie to pull off after Man of Steel glorified in so much violence for so long. And I think that the most likely roster for the team we will see is at this point is:

I like it.

I don't see Martian Manhunter happening after seeing so many alien invasions and seeing how he might diminish how special Superman seems. He'd also increase the cost of the film by a lot... Obviously no roster can please everyone. But this is how I see things shaking out at the moment...

Let me see your agreements and disagreements below, but please be rational rather than just being a rabid fanboy. People will take you more seriously.

P.S. Sorry for so much stream-of consciousness writing.

#2 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

P.P.S. Yes I know there was a Wayne Industries Satellite and that Snyder and Goyer have said Batman is in this world... I just mean that its hard to see him fitting in a world where so many people have power levels like this. It really sticks out more than it does in the comics because this is supposed to take place with real people...

#3 Posted by joshmightbe (24599 posts) - - Show Bio

70 years of comics would beg to differ

#4 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: Did you even read the OP? Clearly not. I'm voicing concerns--not saying he absolutely cannot be in it. In fact, his popularity guarantees he will be in it. And what works on funny book pages doesn't always work on screen. For example, the last scene in MoS at the daily planet...

#5 Edited by joshmightbe (24599 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: If you mean Nolan's Batman you're right he'd have no place in this world. If they did a take more in line with the comic then there are many ways he'd be useful even without fighting the main villain. For instance if they dealt with Darkseid he could fight parademons or commit sabotage to undermine the threat while the big guns deal with the actual fight.

#6 Edited by Kiltro95 (295 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering the direction that they are rumored to be going with facing Darkseid in the Justice League film he maybe a threat larger than an army of kryptonians, and I can imagine part of the film is trying to deal with how Batman may feel overwhelmed. But honestly when I look at the Justice League I see Batman as more of a Pragmatic member of the group using his Logic over how he may actually feel about a situation, which is part of why I think Batman would work better in a Justice League film if the plot was Starro has taken over large populations of people and the only way to get to Starro is by going through his army of innocents that are under his control using them as a shield. In the case of a Batman in the Darkseid level situation, I don't think he will survive and actually end up actually sacrificing himself.

EDIT: The Batman I was thinking of was Nolanverse

#7 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12501 posts) - - Show Bio

meh, i'll probably be more excited when the movie actually comes out.

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#8 Posted by Black_Claw (2886 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Bats could work perfectly in this type of world if done right.

#9 Edited by novi_homines (1330 posts) - - Show Bio

And this is the problem with DC trying to go with the whole "grounded/realistic" approach. DC characters are far more overpowered than marvel characters, yet marvel isn't constricting themselves with the whole grounded direction. Joss Whedon realized this way before hand, it doesn't work. Its a comic book movie, with people who have superpowers. Make them as super as possible.

With Batman they should simply not hold Batman back. Batman is the toughest to do, he's probably the most unrealistic human in comics and I see where you're coming from on this. He's a human, and in this world, I don't see a human who can learn 127 martial arts, while have time to gain PhDs in physics, chemistry, mathematics, etc., at around the ripe age of 25. But they should just roll with it.

On the kryptonians speed angle, I think Flash would be fine. Superman can keep up with flash if flash isn't really trying. And flash rarely tries to run as fast as possible. Just don't show superman using his speed much, and show the depth of flash's speed (phasing through objects, water running, etc.) and he'll be good and unique.

WW would work fine. On the strength scale, she's nearly up there with supes. So she fits.

They should approach GL steering clear of trying to make him another strength character, and focus on what makes him unique, the ring and its constructs. Make him shine through the power of the ring and it's creative nature.

#10 Edited by UltimateSMfan (1361 posts) - - Show Bio

I share your concerns,for bats to be relevant in a justice league movie based in this world,with ppl of such a power level he'd havta be like the tech and under cover guy. Unless they are facing guys as weak as the chitauri.

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#11 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade:

So to justify a Justice League film, you need a threat MORE DANGEROUS than an army of Kryptonians...

AMAZO, shaggy man, darkseid

Even if Batman were like this

batman will be the hawkeye/black widow of the movie

Now I believe that in the MoS universe, Cyborg would make a much better tech guy because he has alien tech that allows him to connect with any kind of computer.

Cyborg is more of the social outreach guy, since everybody except flash has their own problems. He can help the people evacuate and whatnot

Some people may believe that all you need to do is make Batman the leader, but he'd still be too flimsy to be one who lives very long.

Superman is the leader, or wonder woman (makes sense when you think about it, she is strong and experienced)

Then there's the Flash... Superman and Faora were so fast that sometimes you couldn't seem them until they made contact with an enemy. I don't know how they could make Flash any faster while remaining somewhat visible. If they can't do this though than Flash looks pointless.

They can do him in his POV, where everything is slowed down

Expect to see John Stewart as the Green Lantern in the Justice League for these reasons.

I want Strewart , no cyborg

people must be getting sick of alien invasions in these films. And there are only so many alien invasions a world can take... But there needs to be multiple bad guys for multiple heroes.

Magic introduction, interdimensional beings, crazytech from the future

writers are more creative than that

I don't see Martian Manhunter happening after seeing so many alien invasions and seeing how he might diminish how special Superman seems.

have him as a villain turned hero in the sequel, have him as the wise alien/mentor type rather than active member.

#12 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: Good points! My biggest concern is that after destroying a city, the diector will try to up the scale by using global-level combat that requires intense speed. Batman is sneaky, but a fast enough opponent should be able to find him and snap his neck. He's going to be difficult to write IMO. Thanks for your well thought out response!

#13 Edited by ULTRAstarkiller (5861 posts) - - Show Bio

This Superman was just like Nolan Batman weak. In Begins he couldn't lift a log off himself. Comic Batman could of thrown that pretty easily. In Man of Steel he could barely hold a. Oil Tanker up for more than 30 seconds before passing out. Comic Superman could of thrown that tanker into space.

#14 Edited by Black_Claw (2886 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: I'd love to see John Stewart in this cinematic universe, but I think they're gonna use Hal. This is because the last name of the female soldier that said Superman was hot is "Ferris" (Hal's girlfriend). You can see it on her name tag if you look closely.

#15 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_claw:Who says hal' can't be a black man?

also Cybo sucks

@outlawrenegade:

  • Batman can pay the bills, to repair after battles
  • Batman can be at places where the other cant (supes can't be everywhere at once, he is only one person who can be overwhelmed by strong foes in one location)
  • Batman can actually tell superman to better use his skills and tell his team to use their powers more effectively

#16 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@ultrastarkiller: He was still fast enough to not be seen and to quickly travel the globe. And he was still strong enough to decimate everything in his way. His power grew as the film went along. Plus, no dc hero will ever be as powerful as in the comics because they will look over powered. It would be dumb to see Supes move the planet for instance. He'll likely only be as strong as his animated version.

@nerx: I'd love to see John Stewart in this cinematic universe, but I think they're gonna use Hal. This is because the last name of the female soldier that said Superman was hot is "Ferris" (Hal's girlfriend). You can see it on her name tag if you look closely.

Yeah, but that was a very tiny easter egg. Richard Rider having a popular film in theaters beforehand could undermine that. With Han Solo returning to the big screen along with his son, the public can only see so many cocky space pilots at once =)

#17 Posted by Black_Claw (2886 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: Well let's hope filmmakers can see the potential in John just like the makers of the DCAU did all those years ago.

@nerx: I actually like Cyborg, but I think it's best if he's used for a teen titans movie.

#18 Posted by ULTRAstarkiller (5861 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: His powers grew I thought all he did was learn to fly? That's dumb seeing as he was on Earth for 33 years.

#19 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade:

no dc hero will ever be as powerful as in the comics because they will look over powered

Dr manhattan

@black_claw: he is teen titans, not JLA

#20 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Cyborg could work in a solo movie if done right, but I don't see him being on a team with Batman. Cyborg could be a cross between robocop, iron man, and captain america that explore alternate dimensions and fights for america after his tragic accident. Maybe Dr. Light could be his villain. It would be cool to see Cyborg and Shazam team up after their solo films. Mehcad Brooks for Cyborg and Armie Hammer for Shazam? Just spit-balling.

#21 Posted by Black_Claw (2886 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: he's JLA in the new 52. Too bad he hasn't done anything significant other than being a bus for the league.

#22 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by FlashKnight (448 posts) - - Show Bio

He barely destroyed a quarter of the city. And Zod was responsible for most of the destruction. Batman can definitely fit in this universe. Two words: PREP TIME

#24 Edited by Jack Donaghy (901 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America never took a hit from Thor, his SHIELD took a hit from Thor's hammer. Plus Batman and Captain America are pretty much even physically even though Cap's a little stronger. None of the Avengers with powers seemed to have a problem taking Cap seriously. I wouldn't worry about Batman not having powers, that didn't stop Cap, Black Widow and Hawkeye from being Avengers did you have a problem accepting them in the movie? Black Widow who is weaker than Batman took a hit from the Hulk, Batman doesn't need powers to be useful. If it's that much of an issue they could just give him a Batman Beyond like power suit, it's in line with the character since he's used them in the comics, cartoons and video games. Problem solved.

#25 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@jack_donaghy:Black Widow who is weaker than Batman took a hit from the Hulk

when did this happen?

@flashknight: prep lube and his written will to robin

#26 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should be introduced in the JL movie like they introduced Hulk. No solo movies for him before the JL movie. Don't let him appear much in the first half but let him steal the show in the 2nd half. I don't want Nolan Batman in a JL movie, I want Morrison Bat-God.

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#27 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

but let him steal the show in the 2nd half.

I want Morrison Bat-God.

With the CGI madness that is very unlikely

#28 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: There are more than one way he can steal the show. He did in during White Martian Invasion, Supergirl from Krypton, DCAU JL/JLU.

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#29 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: Having jobber aura works, have him beat darkseid with a porta potty and see how that affects the films ratings

The movie should be directed by a neutral who gives them all equal time

Bruce is the planner behind the scenes dude, not an in the field man

#30 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: Ratings doesn't equal box office. MoS is the best example of that. Batman and Superman should be the biggest focus of the movie like CA and Iron Man was in the Avengers. If they let Batman take the backseat to other heroes then the movie will fail.

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#31 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

Batman and Superman should be the biggest focus of the movie like CA and Iron Man was in the Avengers. If they let Batman take the backseat to other heroes then the movie will fail.

We don't know, after avengers people began to love hawkeye and widow who didn't even register amongst casual moviegoers. Both characters who've had a stronger presence than cap in the Chitauri fight, sometimes interaction is more important than the characters themselves.

#32 Posted by Mucklefluga (2510 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: Yeah and everyone wants to see Batman and Superman interact with each other. And Cap had stronger presence then Hawkeye and Widow, it was all about him and Tony interacting for the majority of the 1st half. Peple are waiting to see a Batman/Superman for so many years that I'm sure that World's Finest movie will be just as successful as a JL movie.

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#34 Edited by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

  • I see batman more as a coach and motivational speaker for the movie.
  • Everyone already knows those two, they will be more curious than the rest
  • Cap got shot and got bombed out to fall on the hood on a car
  • Hulk and Thor got more magnetism
#35 Posted by Ciriel (410 posts) - - Show Bio

I completely agree with the OP. I also feel like if they make the villain challenging for Superman (an army of Kryptonians? Wow!) the others might be underplayed.

#36 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx:

  • I don't see him as coach, that's MM's job, motivational speaker, that's Superman's job.
  • That's why everyone will like to see them more than others, no one would want to see Avengers if Iron man and Cap are ignored.
  • He saved the girl and everybody cheered for him.
  • Sorry Thor got the least attention even compared to Agent Coulson and Fury.

That's how I imagine each character's role,

Main Lead characters : Superman and Batman like Cap and Iron Man in Avengers.

Second Lead Character : Wonder Woman like Hulk and Widow was on the movie.

Supporting Characters : Green Lantern = Thor and Flash = Hawkeye.

Cameos : Martian Manhunter = Nick Fury.

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#37 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

  • I'd switch lantern with flash on roles
  • Batman is the cap though
#38 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: It depends really, Superman has always been the inspirational one like Cap and Batman has always been the problem solver like Iron Man. If you're going strength wise then Superman is more comparable to Hulk or Thor.

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#39 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

If Aquaman and Ocean Master invade in the 1st half, then Aquaman could get Loki-level screen time. Batman and Superman could get Iron Man and Cap level screen time. Wonder Woman would be used as much as Hulk. Barry and John would get as much screen time as Widow and Thor.

#40 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: I see batman standing up for superman or at least bruce's lawyers, since he is the one who deals with the PR and whatnot. How society looks on the heroes is burdened on batman, and he is the only one who can do that.

#41 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: I don't think they would show these things in the first movie and at the end of the MoS everyone started to trust Superman, MoS 2 will come out before JL movie so by then I think everyone will trust Superman.

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#42 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

  • At the end of MoS someone needs to rebuild metropolis , or at least help and batman has the money
  • They need to show batman's money as his superpower
#43 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx:

  • I'm sure Lex will be the one to rebuild Metropolis.
  • Money won't save you from world conquerers. Although he can probably build a more durable armor using money.
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#44 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

  • Lex can be business partner of batman
  • Money can be used to get more resources in prep time, money can be used to buy hookers
#45 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx:

  • I doubt Bruce will ever want be Luthor's partner but the idea isn't bad. Maybe he'll be seen in the sequel helping Metropolis' citizens with money, food and shelter or maybe get a mention.

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#46 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy:

  • both rich men, both close to superman in one way or another, both seemingly single.
#47 Edited by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: Right now they have no connection to Superman in the movieverse.

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#48 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by RustyRoy (10841 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx: lol but seriously I hope the new Lex doesn't wear wigs, he's confidant and smart not shy.

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#50 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: he might lose his hair on the movie