#1 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio

Disclaimer: This thread is not about New 52 hate. So please do not say that the way to fix the film is by not telling it or by changing the characters. Etc. Etc. This is supposed to be a constructive discussion limited within the confines of what has been announced. So no complaints about Kevin Conroy either. This is about making the most with what we know.

Justice League: War is the next DC Animated film and is slated for release this Winter. It is based on the critically controversial Geoff Johns story Justice League Origin. But if Batman: Under The Red Hood has taught us anything, it's that a mediocre story can be turned into a great animated film if the right changes are made. So what changes should be made and why?

In my opinion, the film makers should:

1) Extend all of the fight scenes. Justice League: Origin is an action-packed story, not unlike the amazing Justice League Crisis on Two Earths. The book has a Batman/Parademon Chase, a Green Lantern/Batman escape, a Batman/Superman fight, a Batman/Superman/Green Lantern fight, and Superman/Flash fight, a Wonder Woman/Parademon flight, a Justice League/Parademon fight, a Cyborg/Parademon fight, a Justice League/Darkseid Fight, a Batman/Superman rescue, and another Darkseid/Justice League fight. I don't think the film makers should cut any of these. I think that they should be expanded upon and made as epic as the animation allows. And very fight should be better than the last one.

2) Cut out the Bat-hate. One or two observations about Batman's lack of powers is enough. We don't need to continuously disrespect the guy.

3) Develop a camaraderie among all of the characters. I want to see these people put aside their difference and come to like each other, which didn't really happen in the book. There is an opportunity for a lot of heart here. Action scenes are cool, but what makes a film great is the character moments.

4) Give each character a time to shine. They all deserve some spotlight to be sold to the fans and to have them appear to be on equal footing.

5) Make Wonder Woman smarter. The embodiment of heroic femininity shouldn't be an airhead. That said, don't make her too serious either.

6) Tell better jokes. Geoff Johns pumped the book with comedy--which is a good thing. It's just too bad that most of his humor isn't very funny and seems to always be at the expense of one of the heroes.

7) Introduce Darkseid earlier and develop his motivations more. Darkseid is one of the best, most interesting villains in comics. There is no reason he should be a monosyllabic brute. I say that the beginning of he movie should develop Darkseid and expand on why he is invading Earth. Show the audience why he is a really terrifying, powerful threat without using a fight scene. Show that while he is physically powerful, his greatest strength is his intellect.

8) Make the Flash funnier. In JL8, Barry and Hal are a great comedic duo, but that doesn't really come through in Justice League: Origin, in which Barry is nothing but Hal's straight-man. A million character have superspeed. What separates Flash from the rest is his humor.

9) Expand on Wonder Woman's relationship with Steve. These two are supposed to be super close. By developing their relationship, you open up more emotionally charged opportunities.

10) Expand on Cyborg's relationship with Silas. Cyborg's origin is a major subplot in the book, but his relationship with his father--the heart of the book--just falls flat and never feels fully resolved. This should be fixed. I would also like Cyborg to be a little older to be put on equal footing and confidence with his team mates. Don't just make him the timid kid, because no one finds that compelling. By making him older, you only really alter one scene anyway.

11) Expand on the Superman/Batman friendship. This is one of the most iconic friendships in comics. Why was it not a focus of the original story again? That was a mistake.

12) Make Hal MUCH, MUCH less of a dick please. 'Nuff said. Also, don't just let Batman take his **** or reveal his identity. And make Superman more of a leader and symbol of hope rather than a Wolverine rip-off.

13) Find a better way to introduce and use Aquaman or don't use him at all. In the original story, Aquaman was nothing more than a cameo and had no more than 5 lines. He had a cool feat, but contributed absolutely nothing to the plot or the story. Either fix this by having him do more or save him for a Throne of Atlantis film. I mean introduce him as organically as the others instead of shoe hornining him in at the end. There is no reason the King of the Seven Seas should not be treated with respect.

14) Get a punch up writer to fix the dialogue. A lot of it is just bad even though it's meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

15) Have the team spend more time with one another and get to know each other better. Basically don't forget to make this feel like a team story rather than a jumbled rag-tag mess. Fans want these heroes to like each other. It's depressing or pedantic to have them be at one another's throats 24/7. And have Cyborg get to know them better. Have them get to know him better, so that it feels like he belongs.


Anyway, I didn't realize my list would be this long. But with DC animation team behind this, I have faith that this can be a pretty good popcorn movie--maybe even as good as Red Hood or Crisis on Two Earths. It just depends on the director and screen writer.


Also, for those of you who haven't heard, the main cast for the film is:

-Jason O’Mara – Batman

-Alan Tudyk – Superman

-Michelle Monaghan – Wonder Woman

-Justin Kirk – Green Lantern

-Christopher Gorham – The Flash

-Shemar Moore – Cyborg



Further announcements should be made at San Diego Comic Con this week.

Post your constructive thoughts below.

#2 Edited by Black_Claw (3271 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Use Phil Bourassa's Cyborg Design for the film. And as you said, the film should expand upon Cyborg's relationship with his dad and his personality should be closer to what we saw in Teen Titans and Injustice. Being a sad sack isn't gonna cut it for me. Also, at some point, Cyborg should say "BOOYAH!".

2. As you said, they should really tone down Hal's Jerkassery. Seriously, most of the crap that came out of Hal's mouth during origins is what I would expect from Guy Gardener. Sure it's in his nature to be a bit cocky but it should never get to the point where he comes off as an asshole.

3. Make Superman's personality closer to the one we're familiar with.

4. Give Darkseid more lines. He barely spoke in the comic book storyline.

5. Make Flash funny.

#3 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6513 posts) - - Show Bio

Great list.

#4 Posted by Veshark (9285 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, agree with most of this.

#5 Posted by SandMan_ (4581 posts) - - Show Bio

Most of those stuff won't happen.

#6 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by SandMan_ (4581 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: Probably like half...Couldn't they just start with the first arc of Action Comics?

#8 Posted by batmannflash (6272 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good list! But don't take Aquaman out of the entire story. I agree that they should probably introduce him earlier instead of a late-story cameo.

And another thing, don't have the same horrible designs of Flashpoint Paradox. And don't make it over violent.

#9 Posted by Justthatkid (5901 posts) - - Show Bio

The story should be kept the same or around it, I like Batman but I think it would be best if Hal mentions him being powerless and not trying to ironically keep the entire movie on him it could actually give another character a chance to shine for once. If they take out Aquaman I won't get it... I was ticked about them taking a character out of the Flashpoint one. I do agree however that he should be introduced properly his appearance was random and not that explained. What they should do though is keep the humor necessary for the situation and give some tease to the next film in production, I'm confused how they will start the 52 after watching Flashpoint.

#10 Posted by Black_Claw (3271 posts) - - Show Bio

Very good list! But don't take Aquaman out of the entire story. I agree that they should probably introduce him earlier instead of a late-story cameo.

And another thing, don't have the same horrible designs of Flashpoint Paradox. And don't make it over violent.

What about the Cyborg design I posted earlier? That IMO was one of Cyborg's best designs before Flash screwed up the timeline.

#11 Posted by batmannflash (6272 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_claw: yeah i like that Cyborg design. But Superman, and Aquaman...*shudders*

#12 Edited by Black_Claw (3271 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_claw: yeah i like that Cyborg design. But Superman, and Aquaman...*shudders*

Well I think it's more than likely The other leaguers won't have their Flashpoint designs but I'm praying Cyborg keeps his. The Jim Lee design is just awful.

#13 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6513 posts) - - Show Bio

@batmannflash: Are you talking about the alternate universe designs or the normal universe designs?

I thought the normal ones were mostly okay. Aquaman and Superman were just too large and broad. Batman looked pretty good, though.

#15 Edited by batmannflash (6272 posts) - - Show Bio

@rulerofthisuniverse: both. the alternate designs were very ugly but it's okay because we won't see those again. But the normal ones were...okay. Superman and Aquaman looked extremely ugly. Batman was alright but the lips were kind of weird. Flash's new 52 design at the end looks awesome in the comics but looks awkward in the movie. However, I can live with the designs as long as I like the storyline. I loved the Flashpoint comic so I forgot about the design

#16 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (14283 posts) - - Show Bio

this sounds about right.

#17 Edited by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2366 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with this list, don't forget to go more along the lines of YJ animation then JL Flashpoint Paradox animation.

#18 Posted by MartianManhunterIsBetterThanCyborg (2366 posts) - - Show Bio

Flash's New 52 suit doesn't translate well to animation.

#19 Posted by JLDoom (2358 posts) - - Show Bio

@sandman_ said:

Most of those stuff won't happen.

Sadly, I have to agree with this. Don't get me wrong, I really like your ideas and agree with all of them it's just that I don't see them fitting all of this into a 75 minute film.

Also, someone I know who watched JL War's sneak peek in the upcoming Flashpoint movie said that according to the storyboards the moment where Batman reveals his identity to Hal Jordan is in the movie.

#20 Posted by noj (1260 posts) - - Show Bio

Awesome list! Only problem is that adding everything you want would make the movie like 95 minutes which would be amazing but as weve seen DC animated movies are limited to around 70 minutes.

#21 Posted by Lvenger (23135 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with most of your changes. This would make Justice League: War bearable. Especially making Darkseid more of a threat this time. It's a shame that a lot of it isn't going to happen like SandMan said.

#22 Posted by Oscars94 (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

@justthatkid: Aquaman was in the Flashpoint Movie... He had a massive part in it actually!

#23 Posted by Justthatkid (5901 posts) - - Show Bio

@oscars94: I watched it I know, I thought I would see Geo-Force, but they had to replace him for a character that will get and has had media views.

#24 Posted by matchesmalone21 (9878 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

Yeah, agree with most of this.

#25 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio


#26 Posted by Black_Claw (3271 posts) - - Show Bio

So when is this movie supposed to come out again?

#27 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23390 posts) - - Show Bio

Base it on Kingdom Come instead.

/End thread

#28 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1394 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by ViperKing (424 posts) - - Show Bio

Your list is absolutely great. I agree with everything you've said in this post. My main problem with Justice League: Origin was that they failed to establish Darkseid as the greater threat. They failed to show him as the genius, tactician, and mastermind he was in the pre-Flashpoint timeline.

#30 Posted by TheCannon (20234 posts) - - Show Bio

Good list overall. I wouldn't say take Aquaman out of the story, but I agree that he should be more than a last minute cameo.

Also, they use the same awful animation from Flashpoint Paradox. Something similar to Young Justice animation would be good.