#1 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

I've read the first story arc, not reading the second story arc because I sold off my issues before I had the chance, and also I didn't have the whole story arc and didn't want to leave myself half way hanging, so I've read the first 9 issues or so.

I'm probably not the first one to say it, but Red Hood And The Outlaws is NOT a good book, to me, its mediocre. Besides the over-sexual Starfire, the constantly angry Red Hood, and the stupidly carefree Arsenal, the book has a few things that has got me wondering, and they follow as:

a) When will Starfire and Nightwing meet up? Is there any news? I actually don't collect this series, but I would PAY to see how that goes down.

b) This.

How the hell is he alive after doing this?! and also, couldn't he power up his demonic swords with the blood of his enemy/ some random bypasser (since he's obviously displayed no intention to do good).

#2 Posted by BlackReaper (595 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, it's nothing like I expected when I started reading. Especially when they got the spaceship.

#3 Posted by daredevil21134 (11506 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess

#4 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

Red Hood and the Outlaws is my favorite New 52 Book. Starfire kicks all kind of butt, Roy is hilarious and endearing, and Jason has grown a lot over the last almost two years. Your assessments both underscore the fact that you stopped reading early and bring to question why you even made it as far as you did since you seem to really dislike the three protagonists.

A. Kori is intentionally avoiding Dick, and he seems to be avoiding her as well. We don't fully know why, but a chance for them to meet came after Death of the Family and they both chose not to.

B. Drawing blood is not the same as ripping himself apart...the blood might seem a little excessive but slight cuts would hardly be fatal.

#5 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

Kori and Dick have yet to officially meet up in the new 52, yet they have had a past together. In issue 17, they are literally 20 feet away from each other and dont see each other, because Kori was outside and Dick was inside, but i think the consensus was that they were avoiding each other.

As for the book itself, ya well it really isn't for everyone. It has drawn alot of criticism, but has grown a significant following. these past two issues have really stood out of the whole series, so i recommend those issues, especially if you followed the Joker crossover. I don't wanna preach about Kori, because I think that is already in plenty of forums, and been discussed at length enough times for any of use to count, but I see a lot more to Kori then her first appearance and there have been some explanantions given on her behavior. That is all I am gonna say, but to each his or her own

There might be a siginificant meet up with Dick and Jason/Kori in the future, but for now there is no definite news.

The nightwing title hasn't even referenced Kori once, but I see alot more cooperation with Higgins and Tynion, so I think a meet up is definitely possible.

#6 Posted by dngn4774 (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu: What makes you think Red Hood is so angry. Most comments about Lobdell's interpretation of Red Hood are that he's too mellow and not really bitter at all. Granted his new origin kind of sucks compared to his old one, it's still a compelling story and it's only gonna get better now that Tynion is picking it up.

#7 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774: I'm just saying he seems like a very bitter person, I mean with him renouncing his favourite memory? I don't know, personally, I don't like a whiny character, drags the book down IMO.

@akbogert: I'm not going to say I hate the three main characters, it's just how I label their personas. I'm a batman fanboy, and I was a massive, massive fan of the Teen Titans cartoon (hence, I was taken aback when I read this version of Starfire). I'll pick up the second trade sometime in the future, which is when I'll reassess the title. Also, artist depiction probably made the cuts look a lot more fatal than they should be.

@wessaari: So they haven't met up yet? Okay, well, thanks for the advice, I'll go pick up the latest two issues of Red Hood.

#8 Posted by dngn4774 (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu: He only brings that stuff up a couple of times in the early issues and crossovers, so maybe 5 or 6 issues out of 18 and it really doesn't hinder the plot at all.

#9 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774: Mmm, I guess my view is subjected to the fact I've only read the first story arc. I doubt the second story arc would have much Todd since it feels a more Starfire-orientated arc. I'll read the Death Of The Family arcs and get back to this.

#10 Posted by daredevil21134 (11506 posts) - - Show Bio

Overall I still enjoy the series.I just hate the Batman crossovers

#11 Posted by dngn4774 (3020 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu: I'd say now is the best time to pick up the book since Tynion is taking over. You could wait a couple of months for reviews just to be safe.

#12 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

@tomchu: The DotF stuff is probably not a good way to get back into it, actually, haha.

Basically there have been two major story arcs under Lobdell's hand: The first one, which was Jason, and the second, which was Kori. Crossovers like Court of Owls & DotF took up a considerable portion of the rest, and it sounds like Tynion will be picking up with more of a focus on Roy. I'd say the Starfire/Blackfire arc is necessary for anyone who was unhappy with the prior depiction of Starfire because if you finish that arc and still don't like her, then maybe this book really isn't for you.

But if you're going to read Tynion's run, pick up the most recent issue -- Lobdell's last -- because it is a great conclusion to Lobdell's run, and shows how he's come along since the beginning.

#13 Posted by tomchu (522 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert: @dngn4774:

I borrowed a friend's copy of his Red Hood (considering he reads my Saga, we're even). I realized that the DotF and Court Of Owls crossover is surprisingly wordy, but what caught me off was how Jason Todd and a Talon literally talk it out (because that's what Jason Todd excels at. Talking). Teen Titans #16 was surprisingly good, Red Hood + Red Robin Team Up vs Joker.

What actually caught my eye, was #17 and #18, which were both really good. Almost wished Nightwing and Starfire actually met each other without avoiding one another. They were both really good issues (especially Arsenal's interaction with Damian. I'm a sucker for Damian.) #18 was great because it broke Red Hood down to his core, playing off well with #17. And who doesn't love some good-old-fashioned deconstructionism? I think I'm going to pick up #17 and #18, and wait for a few Tynion issues to run before jumping on or not.

#14 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, I specifically meant the actual DotF crossover books. The fallout books were good, but I thought issue 16 was awful.

#15 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

Starfire isn't nearly as sexually focused as her first appearance implied. There's more to the character than that and she's grown through the series, as have Jason and Roy for that matter. I wouldn't describe Jason as whiny by any means. Pre-Flashpoint he was whiny. Here he's basically made peace with what happened to him and decided to move on. He doesn't constantly gripe about the fact he died and such lol in fact it's almost always other people that bring it up. He was a little bitter at the start, but I think that was to be expected as while he'd moved forward he did still die and had a plethora of other issues as well. Lately it's all come full circle with him making peace with Bruce and after this whole memory debacle is over we'll see where the character goes from there.

#16 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

@nathaniel_christopher: I think it's fair to say that some progress has been made in this thread in terms of clarifying that the book gets better.

Of course to be fair in the most recent issue Starfire has the most egregious outfit I've seen on her to date, but that's a new matter entirely...

#17 Posted by BatWatch (2610 posts) - - Show Bio

(laughs scornfully) I'd forgotten about that scene. I read the first nine issues quickly before I started BatWatch, and I was not picking them apart nearly as much, but yeah, that is pretty ridiculous. I think at the time I read it, I thought, "That makes no sense," but that thought was quickly replaced by, "This is really cool looking!" It's the twelve year old boy in me. I suppose we never grow out of it on some level.

To try to make some sense out of the apparent nonsense, we could say that these blades being inherently magical might not do significant damage to Jason beyond bleeding, but in reality, all of this really needs to be explained. By his own admission, Scott Lobdell is not a writer who really plans anything, so I doubt there was a fully formed justification for any of this...also notice Jason's twenty foot vertical jump which seems even more conspicuous to me.

To be fair though, your criticism that Jason could stab a passing stranger does not hold water. Jason has never, in the DCNU, shown any hostility for innocents, and also, I don't think there were any passing strangers.

As for the book overall, I actually generally enjoyed it under Lobdell. It was stupid at times, and the characters were not fully fleshed out, but they are also not as one dimensional as you say, and their banter and adventures were usually a lot of fun. However, I can understand it not being everyone's cup of tea.

Oh, and no, Starfire and NW have not yet met though they were both at Wayne Manor in issue 17.

@tomchu said:

@akbogert: @dngn4774:

I borrowed a friend's copy of his Red Hood (considering he reads my Saga, we're even). I realized that the DotF and Court Of Owls crossover is surprisingly wordy, but what caught me off was how Jason Todd and a Talon literally talk it out (because that's what Jason Todd excels at. Talking). Teen Titans #16 was surprisingly good, Red Hood + Red Robin Team Up vs Joker.

What actually caught my eye, was #17 and #18, which were both really good. Almost wished Nightwing and Starfire actually met each other without avoiding one another. They were both really good issues (especially Arsenal's interaction with Damian. I'm a sucker for Damian.) #18 was great because it broke Red Hood down to his core, playing off well with #17. And who doesn't love some good-old-fashioned deconstructionism? I think I'm going to pick up #17 and #18, and wait for a few Tynion issues to run before jumping on or not.

I'm with you on everything. Teen Titans #16 was great because of the chemistry between Red Hood and Red Robin. There were still some real flaws, but it was so much better than most of Lobdell's handling of Red Robin by a mile. I also thought 17 was amazing though 18 bugged me for the extended dream sequence. I am a big fan of Tynion, but RHATO 19 was not a good start for him. It's probably a good move to sit on the sidelines for awhile.

@akbogert said:

Oh, I specifically meant the actual DotF crossover books. The fallout books were good, but I thought issue 16 was awful.

I thought it was pretty good except for the stupid Joker doll switcheroo at the end.

For more news, reviews, and commentary for the entire Bat Family, check out BatWatch.net.

#18 Posted by akbogert (3218 posts) - - Show Bio

@batwatch: You're thinking of Issue 15, which I agree was fantastic. Issue 16 was Kori, Roy, and the Titans.

#19 Posted by BatWatch (2610 posts) - - Show Bio

@akbogert said:

@batwatch: You're thinking of Issue 15, which I agree was fantastic. Issue 16 was Kori, Roy, and the Titans.

I was thinking of Teen Titans #16 actually. I think I lost track of the conversation at some point. RHATO 16 was very meh.