Is Jason Todd better off alone, or is he better with a team/GF?

@avenging_x_bolt: Jason is still a Rogue, He still kills people like Susie Su, and he certainly has the same attitude doing it, and he has shown hatred towards the Batfamily. DC is actually expanding on his anti heroism as the Red Hood, seeing hoe far they can get Jason to go completely Rogue without becoming a complete Villain. The hug was Bruce attempting to comfort Jason after Jason had his face burned, it means nothing and doesnt change anything between him, he still hates Bruce and everyone else.

i disagree with the still hates Bruce part but dont remotely care enough about Jason to argue.

I doubt DC wants Tim to go Darkside, or whatever, because that will be lame, and we already got one ex Robin gone rogue, they wouldnt make another one as nobody wants a ex Robin copying another ex Robins path.

yup. because DC has never done things that their fans wouldnt want *sarcasm*

@wessaari: Then that means Jason himself is lying to himself, sometimes people who have gone rogue do that, lie to themselves because of their conflicting emotions, conflicting emotions makes that sort of thing happen. He only cried out and said he "loved" them because he still has use for them and they are the only two people he wants to use as he mostly isolates himself away from the other characters of the DC Universe. I beg to differ that people cant lie in their own mind, people can do that, and jason is capable of doing so because of conflicting emotions regarding his hatred towards everyone and thinking of trying to be a better person when he knows its too late for him.

Jason either lied again in his own mind or he is merely saying sorry to Bruce in his own mind for failing Bruce and not being the person Bruce wanted him to be and it doesnt change a thing as he didnt actually said those things to Bruce in person only in his mind and he will still return to being the rogue ex Robin when he leaves Gotham or possibly before leaving.

Yes, I am aware that Volume 1 is called Redemption, but it has nothing in it that suggests Jason is trying to redeem himself or change, its a misleading title, thats all. He wasnt talking about Kori when he mentioned Roamnce are basically the same kind of love, he was talking about them in general, not about any person at all. The writers can be misleading at times, it happens a lot in comic books you just have to get use to it.

I do know what Im talking about actually, I have read Under the Red Hood, seen the movie, read Red Hood the lost days, Jasons appearence in Hush, Teen Titans Life and Death,Countdown The Search For Ray Palmer, Battle for the Cowl, Batman and Robin and RHATO Volume 1 itself, so I know perfectly what Jasons character is like showing I know what Im talking about and you act like you read everything about Jason Todd, I get it you want Jason to redeem himself, but that will never happen, its best that you accept Jason is the rogue ex Robin and is going to be that for a long time, and nothing will change that unless they will create a story where he will finally make peace with himself, Bruce and the Batfamily, but that wont happen for a very LONG time. I never said I knew everything either, Im just getting the ideas the writers are trying to get across to audiences, its their intention to show that Jason hasnt changed. Roy and Starfire arent his friends either, if he says they are friends he actually means "friends" which means that they are not his friends and that he is merely using them.

@wessaari: I have no idea what you are talking about, me banned? I only just joined Comic Vine. I dont have ridiculous excuse, I am proving points that fits Jasons character, but your "so called" "evidence" doesnt support Jasons character at all, its like you dont even know Jason at all like you never even read anything with Jason at all. We can enjoy what Jason does and enjoy the fact hes still the guy that people love to hate, and enjoy that hes the only member (formerly) of the bat family to have gone rogue and separate himself completely from them.

@dngn4774: What I Want? I may want it, but its what DC is giving us as there is numerous evidence that shows Jason hasnt changed at all. This is what DC is writing Jason to be, people just have to accept it. Everything I said fits in what RHATO is showing us, everything you said about a redeeming Jason just completely contradicts RHATO altogether.

He is using them, maybe not after common criminals but bigger criminals that they can find that he will enjoy killing. Its actually logical that Jason is trying get rid of Starfire because everyone knows hes not a people person, and she is Dicks friend not Jasons. He didnt share the memory with his team, he gave it away to that guy that looks like a kid, when he did that he had a dark look on his face, that just screams, that hes trying to be more antihero and trying to control his conflicting emotions rather than your fictional thought of him redeeming himself.

Everything you are saying contradicts both Jason and RHATO completely wheras what im saying fits perfectly and fits what the writers are trying to get across.

@thejman250: when he said none of that matters any more, he means in that moment, of fighting the untitled, because it was the only thing that will enable him to defeat this untitled, and means he will goback to hating everyone after he kills the untitled, is it really that hard to undersatnd? He said that in that particular moment not because he actually meant it or is going to stick with it after defeating it, its in that moment only thats all.

Actually he hasnt moved on, he still kills people, looks like you are ignorant.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

It's not really funny anymore it's just tedious. We've spent so much time arguing with him that no one is even talking about the whether the current outlaws are better than a solo title for Red Hood. Users like him are a cancer to the forum that drain away any of the original intellect that started within these topics.

- Oh look your interpretation. Prove that it means he will go back to hating Bruce, i'm waiting.

- However, the reason that you most likely can't is because, in the english language, saying something like that means that you are over it.

- Prove that he actually didn't mean it. Tell me why Jason's own words were wrong or a lie. I'm waiting kid.

- Your ignorant word means little to nothing to me. Additionally, you apparently don't understand the english language or you're just in severe denial.

- Actually he has moved on kid. Him killing people that aren't in the bat family, doesn't mean he still hates the bat family. Try again fanboy.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

- You have to be one of the best trolls on this site.

- I don't care how "bright" you claim to be, when you speak about something as if you know about it and you admit you haven't read it, you probably deserve to be insulted for such ignorance.

- You clearly haven't studied the character, as you haven't read the recent issues.

- You haven't read the series. You admitted such. Summaries on Wikipedia do not constitute for reading the actual book.

- Additionally, please link me to these "summaries" as i'm curious as to what you think makes you knowledgeable of the series without reading it.

- You wouldn't know what type of character he is, because you haven't read the recent issues.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

- Prove that there isn't any wrong information there. Oh wait, you can't because you haven't read it. Understood.

- Prove that it's in that moment only. Bruce only tells his sons that he loves them in certain moments. Does he only love them in those moments, and hate them in every other moment? No? That's what i thought. Try again.

- You are in denial because you can't prove a damned thing as you haven't read the series. Try again.

- The stereotype is of you, not jason. However, i doubt you can even comprehend what i'm speaking about.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Actually, they contradict everything you've said.

- Prove that he hates everyone else. I'm waiting.

- While you're at it, define "hate" and also note why the definition you choose is more viable than a different definition.

- If you're going to twist scans so that they fit your misguided and ignorant opinion, there is no point in speaking with you.

- He didn't say he hated them in any scan. I'm waiting kid.

- Prove it.

- Prove that he's lying to himself.

- You saying that "you know then Jason is lying" doesn't' mean a damned thing to me as you're just some misguided reader who hasn't even read the whole series thus far.

- You have yet to prove that the writer's stories support you without making baseless claims that "Jason still hates all of them", and "jason was lying to himself" without any evidence to prove it besides your word.

- The only thing you seem to be capable of doing is denying whatever evidence someone gives you to prove something you don't want to happen, and simply attempting to repeat words and phrases i've used in my posts towards me. I don't know how "bright" you could possibly be.

- When you actually have evidence other than your word, feel free try again.

- In the meantime, please don't quote me with your fanboy/fanon drivel as i'd rather my time not be wasted by ignorance and idiocy.

@jasontodd11: dude, you are the only one here saying that he is lying to himself, and most people have the same idea/conviction as the people talking to you. You just started reading RHTO, and have a ways to go before you can tell me what is going on. But I really dont care anymore, because it is funny at this point. Let me guess, you aren't trying to be funny and whatnot. Keep on with your either self-diluted or conscious obstruction of Jason Todd's character, its nice to see what some people will come up with nowadays :)

It's not really funny anymore it's just tedious. We've spent so much time arguing with him that no one is even talking about the whether the current outlaws are better than a solo title for Red Hood. Users like him are a cancer to the forum that drain away any of the original intellect that started within these topics.

- Oh look your interpretation. Prove that it means he will go back to hating Bruce, i'm waiting.

- However, the reason that you most likely can't is because, in the english language, saying something like that means that you are over it.

- Prove that he actually didn't mean it. Tell me why Jason's own words were wrong or a lie. I'm waiting kid.

- Your ignorant word means little to nothing to me. Additionally, you apparently don't understand the english language or you're just in severe denial.

- Actually he has moved on kid. Him killing people that aren't in the bat family, doesn't mean he still hates the bat family. Try again fanboy.

Everyone including me knows who fault it is, and insulting me will get you banned, Im actually bright you know and I know im right when it comes to Jason as I have studied his character through his comic appearences.

I have read the series, i got RHATO volume 1 and read the sumaries on the issues after that so it looks like you are ignorant as you are just someone who desperately want Jason to redeem himself, when in reality hes the same character he always was since his return in 2005.

- You have to be one of the best trolls on this site.

- I don't care how "bright" you claim to be, when you speak about something as if you know about it and you admit you haven't read it, you probably deserve to be insulted for such ignorance.

- You clearly haven't studied the character, as you haven't read the recent issues.

- You haven't read the series. You admitted such. Summaries on Wikipedia do not constitute for reading the actual book.

- Additionally, please link me to these "summaries" as i'm curious as to what you think makes you knowledgeable of the series without reading it.

- You wouldn't know what type of character he is, because you haven't read the recent issues.

Those summaries were from wikia, where the editors monitor the editing of pages, so there is no wrong information there.

Im actually right, I told you its in that moment only, he doesnt say that after killing the untitled if you even noticed.

I mean the scene where Jason puts aside his thoughts temporaily aside so he can defeat this untitled.

Im not in denial, what i said matches Jasons character and is what the writers are trying to get across, you seem in denial because you REALLY want Jason to change when he hasnt at all and hes shown disdain at seeing Nightwings costumes therefore spells he still hates the batfamily.

There is no steriotype, its just what Jason is.

- Prove that there isn't any wrong information there. Oh wait, you can't because you haven't read it. Understood.

- Prove that it's in that moment only. Bruce only tells his sons that he loves them in certain moments. Does he only love them in those moments, and hate them in every other moment? No? That's what i thought. Try again.

- You are in denial because you can't prove a damned thing as you haven't read the series. Try again.

- The stereotype is of you, not jason. However, i doubt you can even comprehend what i'm speaking about.

Your scans just prove even more of my points, there is only person that Jason doesnt hate and thats alfred, everyone else he hates. Yes he does hate Dick as he was living in Dicks shadow as Robin and hasnt gone away since. He does hate Damian, he did shot Damian in Battle for the Cowl and he merely gives Damian advice not to get killed like he did at Jokers hands as he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate, no scans you provided shows he cares at all. Bruce vouched for Jason because he still wants to help/save Jason despite Jason not wanting his help and hating him. And as you know Jason refuses to go home as he still hates Bruce and the batfamily (except alfred). And those scans show Jason as being emotional noting that he still hates them, as emotional scenes has him thinking about his hatred towards the batfamily.

People lie to themselves, in real life it happens as well, like people getting beat up by their spouses, they lie to themselves that everything is going to be okay. So i dont what idea you got that nobody lies to themselves, when they can lie to themselves. I know when Jason is lying when he says someone thats out of his character or that he is trying to trick someone.

The writers stories supports what Im providing, everything in those stories shows Jason as what im trying to point out to you, but you are in hardcase denial.

- Actually, they contradict everything you've said.

- Prove that he hates everyone else. I'm waiting.

- While you're at it, define "hate" and also note why the definition you choose is more viable than a different definition.

- If you're going to twist scans so that they fit your misguided and ignorant opinion, there is no point in speaking with you.

- He didn't say he hated them in any scan. I'm waiting kid.

- Prove it.

- Prove that he's lying to himself.

- You saying that "you know then Jason is lying" doesn't' mean a damned thing to me as you're just some misguided reader who hasn't even read the whole series thus far.

- You have yet to prove that the writer's stories support you without making baseless claims that "Jason still hates all of them", and "jason was lying to himself" without any evidence to prove it besides your word.

- The only thing you seem to be capable of doing is denying whatever evidence someone gives you to prove something you don't want to happen, and simply attempting to repeat words and phrases i've used in my posts towards me. I don't know how "bright" you could possibly be.

- When you actually have evidence other than your word, feel free try again.

- In the meantime, please don't quote me with your fanboy/fanon drivel as i'd rather my time not be wasted by ignorance and idiocy.

@thejman250: well you know, I dont think it is really over with. i think for the most part, Jason has let go a lot of his anger, and during his time within his mind, he realizes that he had a lot to do with his current predicament. I don't like the idea that Jason needs to be Wingman, or that it is only with Bruce that he can be redeemed. I love that they had that moment together, and to know that Jason doesn't necessarily hate Bruce anymore offers new stories to tell which I think will be great, but Bruce isn't perfect, and i dont see Jason stopping what he is doing. I see him more enlightened, and more aware that the Bat-family isn't an enemy. I would love to see more interaction between him and Tim, and maybe some conflict with Dick in the future, but for the most part he really isn't an integral part of the Bat-fam. I think he might be considered an ally, as he has helped out in a long list of occasions, but he does still kill, he does things his own way, and for Jason to be an Outlaw is the best thing he can be. I would like to see a real Red Hood and Batman team up, which we might see in B&R numba 20 that is coming in May.

I feel that the Outlaws are going to have a mindset like; ok we had that little side step, now it is time to go back to work. And that may be where Jason's past will come back, as the solicits show that he had a history with the League of Assassins. So the future looks to be very interesting.

Ya, I feel that Dick held Jason to a really high standard, and when he came back with a vengeance, Dick really wasn't sympathetic, and neither was Babs or Damian. I really don't see the Babs Jason friendship anytime in the future, and even though Damian is dead, they did share some adventures together as Wingman and Redbird, which I didn't particularly care for, but still happened. With Dick going to Chicago, Damian dead, and Babs really in her own world ( I think that DOTF really hit her hard, and her trust with Bruce) the family really is too broken to judge Jason at the moment as a whole. On an individual level, I don't think Dick will like it that much if Jason teamed up with Bruce as Red Hood, Babs really wouldn't like it, but I think Tim would be supportive, though he is off with the Titans, and rarely hangs with the Bat-Clan ( which bums me out). So it really is up in the air as to how the whole family will feel, as the family is pretty broken at this point in time.

I read the DC Presents, and truly felt that the writer didn't necessarily grasp the new 52 Roy. I mean he seemed so cold, and Jason seemed so much like Roy. I felt they were really switched, and I just couldn't get into the plot. I am glad that Roy finally got a spotlight but it wasn't my taste.

@thejman250: well you know, I dont think it is really over with. i think for the most part, Jason has let go a lot of his anger, and during his time within his mind, he realizes that he had a lot to do with his current predicament. I don't like the idea that Jason needs to be Wingman, or that it is only with Bruce that he can be redeemed. I love that they had that moment together, and to know that Jason doesn't necessarily hate Bruce anymore offers new stories to tell which I think will be great, but Bruce isn't perfect, and i dont see Jason stopping what he is doing. I see him more enlightened, and more aware that the Bat-family isn't an enemy. I would love to see more interaction between him and Tim, and maybe some conflict with Dick in the future, but for the most part he really isn't an integral part of the Bat-fam. I think he might be considered an ally, as he has helped out in a long list of occasions, but he does still kill, he does things his own way, and for Jason to be an Outlaw is the best thing he can be. I would like to see a real Red Hood and Batman team up, which we might see in B&R numba 20 that is coming in May.

I feel that the Outlaws are going to have a mindset like; ok we had that little side step, now it is time to go back to work. And that may be where Jason's past will come back, as the solicits show that he had a history with the League of Assassins. So the future looks to be very interesting.

Ya, I feel that Dick held Jason to a really high standard, and when he came back with a vengeance, Dick really wasn't sympathetic, and neither was Babs or Damian. I really don't see the Babs Jason friendship anytime in the future, and even though Damian is dead, they did share some adventures together as Wingman and Redbird, which I didn't particularly care for, but still happened. With Dick going to Chicago, Damian dead, and Babs really in her own world ( I think that DOTF really hit her hard, and her trust with Bruce) the family really is too broken to judge Jason at the moment as a whole. On an individual level, I don't think Dick will like it that much if Jason teamed up with Bruce as Red Hood, Babs really wouldn't like it, but I think Tim would be supportive, though he is off with the Titans, and rarely hangs with the Bat-Clan ( which bums me out). So it really is up in the air as to how the whole family will feel, as the family is pretty broken at this point in time.

I read the DC Presents, and truly felt that the writer didn't necessarily grasp the new 52 Roy. I mean he seemed so cold, and Jason seemed so much like Roy. I felt they were really switched, and I just couldn't get into the plot. I am glad that Roy finally got a spotlight but it wasn't my taste.

so you wouldnt call aiding the Bat-family on multiple occasions (including joining Batman Inc as Wingman), aiding Starfire and Arsenal in their pursuits redemption, as opposed to not acting like a whiny prick and trying to kill them every other day? yeah, why would anyone see that as redemption

@the_tree: There needs to be a way to block him with his URL, that way he can't sign in on his computer. I am not much of a computer person, but I really think that its possible