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#101 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: jason cant be bothered redeeming himself, as he said in Batman and Robin "its too late for me". no i dont need proof, i know jason a lot, i have seen him at his best in under the hood, his attitude, his rage, his hatred towards bruce and everyone else. its pretty obvious that jason is putting on a false personality, even a blind person can see it, jason has always been the same since the under the hood storyline from pre 52 continuity, anyone who really knows jason will know he is putting it on, no evidence is needed, if you dont know Jason then you cant see it. I dont act like anything, I know Jason, I dont control the character, i never said i did, I going on the facts on what i have seen and what i know. I aint blind just look at under the hood, look at the angry expression jason has on his face when he confronts bruce. working together because of sentimentality does not make them allies. sentimentality isnt a negative or positive emotion, it is just thoughts of what happened in the past. jason works with people he hates for reasons that benefir him. Isabel is a person he didnt know, you know, proving he could meet people he doesnt know, he simply chooses not meet new people who are strangers to him. its obvious dick would be annoyed at jason, a blind person can see that too.

#102 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: jason cant be bothered redeeming himself, as he said in Batman and Robin "its too late for me". no i dont need proof, i know jason a lot, i have seen him at his best in under the hood, his attitude, his rage, his hatred towards bruce and everyone else. its pretty obvious that jason is putting on a false personality, even a blind person can see it, jason has always been the same since the under the hood storyline from pre 52 continuity, anyone who really knows jason will know he is putting it on, no evidence is needed, if you dont know Jason then you cant see it. I dont act like anything, I know Jason, I dont control the character, i never said i did, I going on the facts on what i have seen and what i know. I aint blind just look at under the hood, look at the angry expression jason has on his face when he confronts bruce. working together because of sentimentality does not make them allies. sentimentality isnt a negative or positive emotion, it is just thoughts of what happened in the past. jason works with people he hates for reasons that benefir him. Isabel is a person he didnt know, you know, proving he could meet people he doesnt know, he simply chooses not meet new people who are strangers to him. its obvious dick would be annoyed at jason, a blind person can see that too.

This entire post is some of the worst fanon i've ever seen. Also, amazingly arrogant.

#103 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@wessaari: The New 52 isnt any different to the pre 52, either than the fact he works with people who means nothing to him and works with batman for sentimental reasons. He is the same person, the former darker robin, the one bruce failed and the one determined to hate everyone. one moment with tim means nothing, he still hates tim for replacing him, even though tim is red robin now, Jason doesnt want to go home because he has no place there, he he hates the whole lot of them, bruce most of all.

I do not think this is true at all. Firstly, the New 52 has changed a lot of things, so it is very different than pre52. He also is not determined to hate everyone. Jason is still a good person, at least in my opinion. He just delivers a harsher form of justice than Bruce does. He saved Roy from certain death in Issue 1 of RHATO, a move that shows he is a good person, as he could easily have left him in the prison to rot.

Jason harbored a lot of anger towards the Bat-family when he first returned as Red Hood, a move that is understandable and logical. That arc has ended, however, and Jason has grown a lot as a hero and a character in the past year. I don't think that he harbors anger or resentment for Tim anymore, and their relationship has been retconned in extreme ways. Tim taking the moniker Red Robin, out of respect for Jason, may have caused the events of Under the Red Hood to have gone down drastically different than what we saw, particularly in regards to Tim and Jason's fight at the Titans Tower. Lobdell is writing both Jason and Tim's characters now, and I have a feeling that he will mold events to bring them closer together.

Jason went through a dark period in his history under Grant Morrison. While Grant is a great writer and has produced some amazing Batman stories, I do not think he understands Jason's character at all. He was molding him into one of Batman's villains, when in reality the whole constantly fighting Batman idea should have ended directly following Under the Red Hood. Jason is an anti-hero and certainly the darkest member of the Bat-family, but he is in no way a sociopathic loner that hates the world.

#104 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

As for whether or not Bruce cares about Jason, of course he does. I believe that he truly wants Jason to become a full fledged hero, however he knows that he has to let him find that path on his own. The facts that he does not take Jason down when he returns to Gotham, allows him to join Batman Inc, and vouches for him with Superman shows that he cares for him still.

#105 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Im not arrogant, what the hell is fanon. what the hell you are talking about?

@r3d_rob1n: I meant for Jason of the new 52 and pre 52 incarnations, his personality and character. Jason is still the angry person he always was, he is capable of heroics when he has reasons to do so. Jason is still an anti hero, the hero version of him stayed in his grave. He hates tim, he has no reason to like him, the very thought of tim makes him think bruce replaced him, like throwing the memory of him in the garbage. Tim stole the code name red robin plus the costume, i think to mock jason, why on earth would he respect jason after jason repeatedly nearly killed him? They will never be close, jasons hatred of tim is too strong, i dont believe the under the hodd story went differently, its still the same with little new bits added to it. Jason has no reason to like the world after being murdered.

#106 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: Im not arrogant, what the hell is fanon. what the hell you are talking about?

Fanon is shortened for fan canon, where a fan sees something he doesn't like so he rewrites the canon events in his head. And I say arrogant for acting like you know Jason better than everyone else, including the writers who are currently portraying him to have moved on from the events of his death and Under the Red Hood. You however wish to say everything is just an act on his part, which hasn't been hinted at in the slightest and therefore has nothing to back it up, yet you say because you know the character that that's what's obviously happening and everyone else is wrong and that he's always been the same since the events of Under the Red Hood. Arrogant fanon.

#107 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: The only thing i have to say is this.

Jason isnt the the little hate machine that it could.

#108 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6115 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

Batman gave up on Jason, he stopped trying to help him both in pre 52 and New 52, so I say bruce no longer cares for Jason.

#109 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: there is nothing i dont like about jasons history, i do not make up my own history of the character, thats ridiculous, i wouldnt be able to think of my own jason todd history. I said I know Jason, I didnt say i know more about jason than everyone else, you misinterpreted what i said. Its basic facts jason hasnt moved, its impossible for him to move one, how in the world is it possible to move on from being murdered? it isnt possible. look at past jason stories, look at his personality, now hes clearly hiding that personality under, the personality he made for the outlaws, because it would certainly not please roy and starfire if jason told them he hated them. He is the same from under the hood, no evidence to show otherwise, all the so called evidence are flawed, and and can be shot down by reason, logic and facts. so there im not arrogant or inventing fanon.

#110 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@r3d_rob1n: I meant for Jason of the new 52 and pre 52 incarnations, his personality and character. Jason is still the angry person he always was, he is capable of heroics when he has reasons to do so. Jason is still an anti hero, the hero version of him stayed in his grave. He hates tim, he has no reason to like him, the very thought of tim makes him think bruce replaced him, like throwing the memory of him in the garbage. Tim stole the code name red robin plus the costume, i think to mock jason, why on earth would he respect jason after jason repeatedly nearly killed him? They will never be close, jasons hatred of tim is too strong, i dont believe the under the hodd story went differently, its still the same with little new bits added to it. Jason has no reason to like the world after being murdered.

Absolutely not correct. Tim took the Red Robin identity because it had been tarnished in the eyes of the public and Tim was about to embark on a quest that would lead him to questionably legal circumstances. Due to this he did not want things to reflect poorly on Batman or the Batfamily, thus explaining why he chose that moniker. Tim respects Jason because he can empathize with the character and knows what he must be feeling inside. It was Tim that allowed Jason to escape prison.

Jason's feud and anger with being murdered has nothing to do with the world. It has to do with Bruce, and only Bruce. He harbors feelings of resentment and anger, yes, but he is learning to control those feelings and move on with his version of heroics. This is CHARACTER GROWTH. It makes Jason an interesting and constantly evolving character. He is not Batman, nor does he want to be Batman, but he is also not a villain and not a sociopath.

I suggest reading the New 52 stories, as they have done more to bring Jason back to a place of prominence in the DC Universe than would ever have been possible before.

#111 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: there is nothing i dont like about jasons history, i do not make up my own history of the character, thats ridiculous, i wouldnt be able to think of my own jason todd history. I said I know Jason, I didnt say i know more about jason than everyone else, you misinterpreted what i said. Its basic facts jason hasnt moved, its impossible for him to move one, how in the world is it possible to move on from being murdered? it isnt possible. look at past jason stories, look at his personality, now hes clearly hiding that personality under, the personality he made for the outlaws, because it would certainly not please roy and starfire if jason told them he hated them. He is the same from under the hood, no evidence to show otherwise, all the so called evidence are flawed, and and can be shot down by reason, logic and facts. so there im not arrogant or inventing fanon.

Have you actually read Red Hood and the Outlaws?

#112 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: yes jason has a hatred that is there forever, unless there is a good storyline that helps him become a hero again, which there isnt.

@r3d_rob1n: tim does not respect jason after what jason did to him, trying to kill him, he cant empathize with jason, because he never died, and he cant know what jason is feeling, he doesnt even know jason. helping jason escape prison, did change a thing as jason tryed to kill tim again in battle for the cowl. he hates the world, because there is nothing out there for him, he was forgotten, the memory of him thrown in the garbage, he was betrayed by his mother, so i say he hates the world, he said in batman and robin "...but this ugly dungheap of a world had other plans for me". He is not moving on, he is still dweling on the past. he is growing as he is probably figuring new plans to get vengeance on batman and the joker. hes an anti hero, always will be.

#113 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: there is nothing i dont like about jasons history, i do not make up my own history of the character, thats ridiculous, i wouldnt be able to think of my own jason todd history. I said I know Jason, I didnt say i know more about jason than everyone else, you misinterpreted what i said. Its basic facts jason hasnt moved, its impossible for him to move one, how in the world is it possible to move on from being murdered? it isnt possible. look at past jason stories, look at his personality, now hes clearly hiding that personality under, the personality he made for the outlaws, because it would certainly not please roy and starfire if jason told them he hated them. He is the same from under the hood, no evidence to show otherwise, all the so called evidence are flawed, and and can be shot down by reason, logic and facts. so there im not arrogant or inventing fanon.

Why don't you look at Jason's current stories to see you're wrong? It's impossible to move on from death? Too bad that numerous people have died in comics and all of them have moved on from it, including Jason.

All the evidence in the current comics you haven't read shows otherwise.

No you're not saying you know more about him than everyone else, you're just saying that Jason's clearly lying to everyone in the comics currently and presenting a false personality, and that you're the only one who knows him well enough to see it. Makes perfect sense.

Arrogant Fanon.

#114 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: no, but i have seen a couple of so scans of RHATO.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: RHATO isnt available in my country yet, so its impossible at the moment to read RHATO, which i really want to read. Jason is the one person that cant move on from his death, the others moved on, because they have people they care about while jason had no one. I never said i know him well enough, seems to me your the one who has arrogant fanon.

#115 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@DeathpooltheT1000: yes jason has a hatred that is there forever, unless there is a good storyline that helps him become a hero again, which there isnt.

@r3d_rob1n: tim does not respect jason after what jason did to him, trying to kill him, he cant empathize with jason, because he never died, and he cant know what jason is feeling, he doesnt even know jason. helping jason escape prison, did change a thing as jason tryed to kill tim again in battle for the cowl. he hates the world, because there is nothing out there for him, he was forgotten, the memory of him thrown in the garbage, he was betrayed by his mother, so i say he hates the world, he said in batman and robin "...but this ugly dungheap of a world had other plans for me". He is not moving on, he is still dweling on the past. he is growing as he is probably figuring new plans to get vengeance on batman and the joker. hes an anti hero, always will be.

Empathy is experiencing another persons emotions without feeling them yourself, thus Tim not ever having died is exactly how he can empathize.

Clearly your visions of the character are marred in fantasy and delusion. There is no arguing with you. As the great Mark Twain once said, "Do not argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

#116 Edited by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@r3d_rob1n: no, but i have seen a couple of so scans of RHATO.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: RHATO isnt available in my country yet, so its impossible at the moment to read RHATO, which i really want to read. Jason is the one person that cant move on from his death, the others moved on, because they have people they care about while jason had no one. I never said i know him well enough, seems to me your the one who has arrogant fanon.

Then you shouldn't talk about something you haven't read. It's not a hard concept to understand.

Too bad that in RHATO, which you haven't read, Jason's already moved on from his death and this has been shown in Batman Inc and Batman and Robin as well.

So you admit you don't know him well enough, yet still talk claim he's just acting, in a story you haven't read to see if that's actually true? Makes no sense.

@r3d_rob1n Well said sir!

#117 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: @Nathaniel_Christopher: @r3d_rob1n: JASON TODD IS THE LITTLE HATRED MACHINE THAT IT COULD!!!

WITH HIS HATERADE POWERS AND THE HATERSWORD FROM HATERLANDS!!!!

HE HAS SO MUCH HATE INSIDE OF HIMSELF HE CAN MAKE HATE GUNS AND SHOT HATE BULLET INTO EVERYBODY!!!

HIS RELIGIONS IS HATEISM, THE MESSIAH IS HATESUS HATERISS!!!

HATE FOR EVERYBODY!!!!

OK AND NOW A JOKE.

JASON TODD HATE LEVEL....

ITS OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAANDDDDD!!!!

#118 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: no the tim cant empathize, he wouldnt understand, anyway he hated jason for trying to kill him. tim cant empathize because he never died. seems your the one with the fantasy and delusions. and who the hell is mark twain?

@Nathaniel_Christopher: no jason will never move on from his death, nothing will change when i finally be able to read it. i have read under the hood, the lost days, teen titans #29, Battle for the cowl, a death in the family and batman and robin and i know him enougth to say he cant move on.

@DeathpooltheT1000: LOL, you are funny man.

#119 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: no jason will never move on from his death, nothing will change when i finally be able to read it. i have read under the hood, the lost days, teen titans #29, Battle for the cowl, a death in the family and batman and robin and i know him enougth to say he cant move on.

Too bad for you the writers have shown him to have moved on.

You know enough to predict how different writers will handle the characters in other stories, to say they'll never write him as having moved on? Ok bro.

Arrogant fanon.

#120 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys at this point, this thing is more fun to read you at this point that reply for how insane this thing is going.

#121 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@r3d_rob1n: no the tim cant empathize, he wouldnt understand, anyway he hated jason for trying to kill him. tim cant empathize because he never died. seems your the one with the fantasy and delusions. and who the hell is mark twain?

em·pa·thy

[em-puh-thee] Show IPA

noun1.the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

Also, in case you need it:

vi·car·i·ous

[vahy-kair-ee-uh s, vi-] Show IPAadjective

1.performed, exercised, received, or suffered in place of another:vicarious punishment.

2.taking the place of another person or thing; acting or serving as a substitute.

3.felt or enjoyed through imagined participation in the experienceof others: a vicarious thrill.

As for Mark Twain, I am amazed. I had always heard that foreign schools are better than ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Twain

#122 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: no, the writers have not written him to have moved, i have read nothing on any site about the outlaws that says hes moved one, so he hasnt. would you move on if you were jason? no i didnt think so. and stop making your own arrogant fanon.

#123 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: 1) yea the new 52 and pre new 52, are impeccably different. 2) You havent read the stories so you have no real grounds to make a case that Jason hates everyone. The proof is within the stories my friend, and the fact that you cant accept that is driving alot of people off the wall. Jason has shown he cares for those people, no matter what you say the sotry shows, the inner dialogue shows, his motivations show, his actions show, that Jason isnt the same hateful person he was.

#124 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: 1. not for jason much, his story remains mostly the same. 2. its obvious to people with the right minds that jason hates everyone. jason doesnt care for anyone, he has no reason to, no one cared when he died, so he cares for no one. Jason is the same person he is in the under the hood story.

#125 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: no, the writers have not written him to have moved, i have read nothing on any site about the outlaws that says hes moved one, so he hasnt. would you move on if you were jason? no i didnt think so. and stop making your own arrogant fanon.

You haven't read it, but you're qualified to judge what's happened in it?

That question makes no sense, as if I were Jason i'd be dead.

Arrogant fanon.

#126 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: have you read his origin story, have you read any of Red Hood and the Outlaws. If not than you have no proof of that claim. The writer could ahve changd him dtramatically, and you wouldnt have known. He has shown he cares for his friends, he has said he has cared for his friends, his inner thoughts have siad he cares for his friends, his inner thoughts says he likes the girl that he is seeing, and he has just told Joker that if his girl dies, than Joker will die. Honestly, if you are just going to blindly believe what you believe without the proof, than i cant change that. we present the evidence and it shows Jason in a different light, if you cant accept that than i suggest you dont read RHTO

#127 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: yes, he tried to steal the tires of the batmobile, then the joker claimed he manipulated jasons life to becoming robin, but knowing the joker he was lying. no i havent read RHATO. therefore, his origin is the same and most of his life is the same. he doesnt have any friedns, kory and roy certainly, hes using them for his own purposes, he is constantly thinking what life would be like if he had friends, his thoughts made him think is it possible to like someone like that girl, he wont let the joker kill someone hes using to wonder how much life would be if he was different, and he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate. none of you have defining undeniable evidence that says otherwise. I am a Jason Todd fan, i read anything with him in it, i am going to read RHATO and you cant stop me and i like to see you try. Jason is forever the dark ex robin, who turned his bac on bruce and became an anti hero.

#128 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9526 posts) - - Show Bio

GUY YOU HAVE THIS THING GOING OVER 20 PAGES.

I mean, does you have to keep this one going on too in the girlfriend one?

#129 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: well im going to be the immature one and say i didnt start it, even though its true i didnt start the arguement in the first place.

#130 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@wessaari: yes, he tried to steal the tires of the batmobile, then the joker claimed he manipulated jasons life to becoming robin, but knowing the joker he was lying. no i havent read RHATO. therefore, his origin is the same and most of his life is the same. he doesnt have any friedns, kory and roy certainly, hes using them for his own purposes, he is constantly thinking what life would be like if he had friends, his thoughts made him think is it possible to like someone like that girl, he wont let the joker kill someone hes using to wonder how much life would be if he was different, and he doesnt want anyone else suffering his fate. none of you have defining undeniable evidence that says otherwise. I am a Jason Todd fan, i read anything with him in it, i am going to read RHATO and you cant stop me and i like to see you try. Jason is forever the dark ex robin, who turned his bac on bruce and became an anti hero.

in the new origin, he didnt steal the batmobile's in the new continuity. He was caught stealing drugs out of Leslie Thompkins hospital. What you are saying makes no sense, because it applies to the old Jason not the new Jason. Also i said if you thought this way i wouldnt recommend it to you, i didnt say i wont let you read it. You can read whatever you want, but when you see it you will be disappointed because you are wrong, or you will blindly believe what you believe no matter what. Your a Todd fan, I am too, but characters change and honestly its not bad in this case. I really hope you stop ignoring the facts and actually accept the truth, so if you want to read to read it go ahead.

#131 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

it was the joker telling the origin telling the origin of "the new jason" and the joker is mainly a liar, so why you believe what hes saying is beyond me. when i read it i most likely be proven right, i know the truth of jason, to me jason is the tragic failure of batman who hates everyone and is determined to get vengeance, characters like jason dont change, why? Because its impossible to write a story where Jason can change, you would have to think of the characters personality and everything and redemption is not apart of those traits and its impossible to coincide his redemption with who he is. I cant even think of a scenario that would help or make jason into a hero again.

#132 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: I do not understand why you think that Jason hates the world. Even in Under the Hood, which you claim as your main source for Jason, he is shown to be battling against the Black Mask. He refuses to let any dealers sell drugs to children, even going so far as to blow up a meth factory to prove this point. Jason may not be as noble or moral as Batman, but that is the point of an anti-hero. Jason has not let his death mold him into a villain or a person who hates the world, rather it has left him as a man who believes that violent people should meet violent ends. His disappointment about his death is not so much the outcome, one that all heroes or sidekicks should accept based on their line of work, but rather the fact that Bruce did not avenge him. He was further angered by what he believed to be Bruce not caring about him during the Hush storyline. What Jason could not know, however, was that Batman had already deduced that the doppelganger could not be Jason, and therefore he showed no emotion to his reappearance.

His hatred for Bruce has been dulled over time, as time truly does heal all wounds. His hatred for Nightwing isn't so much hatred, as it is a dislike for what he believes is a blind following for Batman's teachings. He also feels that Bruce cares more for Dick than he does Jason, and feels betrayed by the thought that Bruce would have avenged Dick's death.

You may be a self-appointed Jason fan, but your blind following for the delusion of the character you believe exists is painful to read. I truly believe you will gain a higher respect for the character if you open your mind and see that Jason HAS moved on from his death. It makes him a better character, a better hero, and a more resilient person than one who dwells on the past and lets it corrupt their entire existence. Should you choose to read RHATO, which I believe you should, then please try to enter into it with an open mind. You just might find that this new Jason is truly a better, more complex, Jason.

#133 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: please dont get this argument wrong. I dont want Jason to be a hero again, he is an antihero, he should stay that way. i disagree with what Batman Inc is doing, but the point we are making is that Jason is changing. It is possible to write a story where Jason is changing because it is being written in the pages of RHTO. As for Joker, the back up was told in Jokers perspective, and alot of people dont know if he is telling the truth, you are right in that department. But the first part of that issue was told from Jason. It dealt with his childhood, his mother's overdose, and Batman taking him in. Then it talks about Jason's behavior as RObin, him being reduced to monitor duty for his behavior and finding his mother on the Bat-computer. His death is pretty much identical from there. But his rebirth is still a little hazy, it looks like Jason was brought back straight from the Lazarus Pit. SUperboy prime doesnt exist, so that universe altering punch never happened. Now back to the point at hand, you say you know the character but you have to understnad; you have not read the new 52 rhto, you dont know this Jason. His anger HAS subsided to a great degree, is he still angry at Bats, yes, does he hate him, maybe. But he is making steps to not be so hot headed and trying to find a life again while still being the Red Hood. HE will still be an anti hero no matter what nonsense Morrison does with him. But Jason is changin, he has a girl he likes, he has friends he cares for, and if you havent read the stories then you cant make the points you are trying to make

#134 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

The bottom line is that we don't write the comics. We read them. Writers can make the characters act however they want. And they've currently made Jason Todd into a different character than he was Pre-Flashpoint.

#135 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@r3d_rob1n: I think Jason hates the world, because he is alone, he had a bad life, he has no one to care about, hes basically got nothing, his life got better a little when Bruce took him in, but it went sour when he came back from the dead, the one person who is suppose to care about him never avenged him, i suppose in a way, he basically blamed the world as he said "...but this ugly dungheap of a world had other plans for me", and all he had was basically the bad experiences of life, he feels no one cared, that the world didnt care when he died, so what else there is to hate? Despite hating the world, he does have some morality left in him like stopping drug dealers from selling to kids. Him hating the world in my opinion resulted in his new found thinking that criminals need violent ends, he feels since he had a bad ending that criminals deserve the same, bad endings. Also Jason deduced when talking to bruce after revealing himself as the Red Hood that Bruce had a feeling that he had faced the real jason todd (him) in the graveyard. Time cannot heal all wounds, Jasons wound is unhealable, not because i think it cant, but because Jason refuses to be helped, he feels its too late for him, that it always been too late for him ever since his death. I believe he hates Dick though its not Dicks fault at all, hates him because he thought he could never be as good as him, probably jealously perhaps, but hates him none the less. self appointed? I am a fan not be self appointment, i have the under the red hood on blue ray and DVD, Under the hood comic, the lost days and teen titans #29 where he came and beat tim in the teen titan tower. Jason will never moved on from his death, and I like that fact, hes someone who is basically determined to stay in the dark. by the way, hes not a hero anymore, that part of him stayed dead, hes an antihero, from the moment he killed a criminal for the first time after his resurrection. I do respect the character, and I like the fact that he hates everyone.

@wessaari: I never said i wanted him to be a hero again, i just said it was impossible to make him a hero again and i agree with you he should stay an antihero. Jason hasnt changed, point blank, hes the same as ever. it might be possible that jasons memories in the new 52 might have been messed up from the moment the DC universe changed, thats why his so called story is similar to the jokers. lazarus pit resurrection lame, a pit of liquid cant return a living soul to a human body, the pit isnt magical. I dont think hes looking for a life, he is still legally dead, and theres nothing in life for Jason, virtually nothing, his life ended when the joker killed him, he has only life as the Red Hood, and as the Red Hood he is focused on killing criminals, yes he can hang out with his "work colleagues", but that isnt really life, that girl isabel, hes just using her, he doesnt know her, so he cant like her, hes using her to find out what would happen if his life was different, if he was able to date women. he hasnt got any friends, those work colleagues in the outlaws dont count because they arent his friends.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: No, i havent made Jason into anything, that is how he was written in both pre and post flashpoint.

#136 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@Nathaniel_Christopher: No, i havent made Jason into anything, that is how he was written in both pre and post flashpoint.

I didn't say you'd done anything. Go re-read my post. I was talking about the writers.

#137 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nathaniel_Christopher: ah, must be the wrong the person, i commented to, someone said i made jason into my own interpretation which i didnt, who was that?

#138 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@r3d_rob1n: I think Jason hates the world, because he is alone, he had a bad life, he has no one to care about, hes basically got nothing, his life got better a little when Bruce took him in, but it went sour when he came back from the dead, the one person who is suppose to care about him never avenged him, i suppose in a way, he basically blamed the world as he said "...but this ugly dungheap of a world had other plans for me", and all he had was basically the bad experiences of life, he feels no one cared, that the world didnt care when he died, so what else there is to hate? Despite hating the world, he does have some morality left in him like stopping drug dealers from selling to kids. Him hating the world in my opinion resulted in his new found thinking that criminals need violent ends, he feels since he had a bad ending that criminals deserve the same, bad endings. Also Jason deduced when talking to bruce after revealing himself as the Red Hood that Bruce had a feeling that he had faced the real jason todd (him) in the graveyard. Time cannot heal all wounds, Jasons wound is unhealable, not because i think it cant, but because Jason refuses to be helped, he feels its too late for him, that it always been too late for him ever since his death. I believe he hates Dick though its not Dicks fault at all, hates him because he thought he could never be as good as him, probably jealously perhaps, but hates him none the less. self appointed? I am a fan not be self appointment, i have the under the red hood on blue ray and DVD, Under the hood comic, the lost days and teen titans #29 where he came and beat tim in the teen titan tower. Jason will never moved on from his death, and I like that fact, hes someone who is basically determined to stay in the dark. by the way, hes not a hero anymore, that part of him stayed dead, hes an antihero, from the moment he killed a criminal for the first time after his resurrection. I do respect the character, and I like the fact that he hates everyone.

@wessaari: I never said i wanted him to be a hero again, i just said it was impossible to make him a hero again and i agree with you he should stay an antihero. Jason hasnt changed, point blank, hes the same as ever. it might be possible that jasons memories in the new 52 might have been messed up from the moment the DC universe changed, thats why his so called story is similar to the jokers. lazarus pit resurrection lame, a pit of liquid cant return a living soul to a human body, the pit isnt magical. I dont think hes looking for a life, he is still legally dead, and theres nothing in life for Jason, virtually nothing, his life ended when the joker killed him, he has only life as the Red Hood, and as the Red Hood he is focused on killing criminals, yes he can hang out with his "work colleagues", but that isnt really life, that girl isabel, hes just using her, he doesnt know her, so he cant like her, hes using her to find out what would happen if his life was different, if he was able to date women. he hasnt got any friends, those work colleagues in the outlaws dont count because they arent his friends.

@Nathaniel_Christopher: No, i havent made Jason into anything, that is how he was written in both pre and post flashpoint.

you dont know this because you havent read the freaking series dude!!! How do you know if you havent even read it!!!!! You havent read new 52 jason but claim to be an expert on him, this sounds like im talking to a freaking child

#139 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: did i say i was an expert? no! Its pretty obvious that Jason remains the same, because his character cant change.

#140 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@wessaari: did i say i was an expert? no! Its pretty obvious that Jason remains the same, because his character cant change.

dude, writers change characters all the time. Jason was blond before the first reboot in the 80s, turned brunette. Jason was suppose to stay dead. Writers changed him to bring him back to life. That is an incredibly ignorant statement that hinders charcter development. Dude, characters change and will change all the time, the sooner you accept that the easier it will be for you actually read new stories. You havent read the new stories that have changed Jason. His new origin is different from the previous two he has had, hell the way he came back has changed, so yes his character can change

#141 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: i was talking about the pre 52 and the new 52, not about pre crisis and post crisis. Jason turned from blond to black hari, not brunette. i was also talking about jason trying to be better person, thats the change, that hasnt happen and wont happen.

#142 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@wessaari: i was talking about the pre 52 and the new 52, not about pre crisis and post crisis. Jason turned from blond to black hari, not brunette. i was also talking about jason trying to be better person, thats the change, that hasnt happen and wont happen.

you dont know that if you havent read the freaking story dude

#143 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: Jason is one character that doesnt really change in the new 52, its obvious even to people like me who havent read RHATO.

#144 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13 said:

@wessaari: Jason is one character that doesnt really change in the new 52, its obvious even to people like me who havent read RHATO.

dude, that is just igorance. you havent read the story so you dont know. thats the last ill say in the matter, because you are just way too head strong and ingorant to understand. not trying to be mean, but theres no other way to explain that

#145 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: I have read about it on wikipedia and other sites, nothing there suggests hes changed, hes the same old jason.

#146 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

@JasonTodd13: wiki isnt the comic itself, it only tells you the overally story, ir isnt the same as reading the actual comics,trust me i have every single one of them, if you are trying to understand RHTO, you have to actually read it instead of reading wiki

#147 Posted by JasonTodd13 (423 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari: i am well aware of that, but it does give a summarised version of what happens in the actual comics. I still have to wait a long time before RHATO is available in my country.

#148 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

Now that the craziness has past lets get back to the discussion at hand!!!

#149 Posted by redhoodnet (153 posts) - - Show Bio

I do not think that he works with people because he does not care about them. In fact it has been shown more than once that he cares for Roy as a friend. Why else would he run off to save him? It benefits him in no way at all. Jason has become a more rounded character and that is why he is one of the best of the N52.

#150 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes Bruce still cares about Jason Todd like any father would. Hell, that was evident during Under the Hood where he told Jason to let him (Bruce) help him (Jason), apologized for having failed him, and then kept searching for him after Joker blew up that building they were in, along with the conversations between him and Alfred. It's always been evident that Bruce still cared about Jason, as he's never once forgotten about him. He's now let Jason into Batman Inc, despite the murders and crimes Jason has committed, despite the fact he broke into Titans Tower and beat the shit out of Tim Drake, despite the fact he's fought Nightwing numerous times, Bruce is still giving Jason a chance to redeem himself. (And this isn't even a second chance. It's more like a 10th.)