#1 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

There are opinions on this movie. We all know what went wrong, so I decided to think, and write about what went right. Please, bear with me, I digress a little. Also SPOILERS!!!!!!

I personally think that anyone who can honestly say that this isn't the best Iron Man movie, are simply letting the whole mandarin issue get the better of them. Iron Man 3, in my opinion had the best action of any of the 3. It delved deepest into Tony Stark's emotion and sanity of the 3. And it did the best job of portraying Tony Stark's detective skills, as well as engineering skills of the 3 movies. I don't understand how anyone could honestly say that this isn't the best Iron Man movie. Iron Man fans should be angry about the mandarin situation, but they should be much more happy with the way they handled TONY STARK.

I'm baffled by all of this. I left the theater respecting tony in an even greater way than I had before. When he broke down the scene of the crime, I was truly SHOCKED. No one ever talks about him as a detective, but he is a genius, and he shows just how brilliant he is. And when he was forced to use his brain to get out of jams, that's when I understood what makes Tony Stark unique. Remember when he was in an encounter with that extremis girl? Get this, he won that matchup against a SUPERHUMAN while he was without his armor, and while he was handcuffed!!! He beat her simply with his BRAIN! Badass! That's more than batman ever did in the ENTIRE Nolan Trilogy!!! And Batman is king of the tacticians/detectives! Think about that. Yet the Nolan trilogy gets claims of "doing it right". Lastly, he took out the entire outer security of the mansion with tasers, projectiles, and mini grenades made out of christmas ornaments. All things that he built using his brain from items he bought from a hardware store! How are Iron Man fans not pleased by all of this?!?! I follow comics, and even I was shocked to how well they showed what makes Tony unique. They nailed stark perfectly. I mean what more could you want.

And when comparing it to Nolan's trilogy, this was much better in showing what makes the character special. Iron Man fans are lucky. No where in the dark knight trilogy were batman's detective skills shown, or his awesome hand to hand combat, or his tactician skills. He let's joker outsmart him, killing the one he loves. He lets catwoman lure him into a trap, which ends up breaking his back. And instead of finding a way to disarm the nuclear bomb scientifically, or using his brain like the real batman would, he instead just carries it to the ocean. -_- yeah, exactly how batman would do it. Thats The Dark Knight Trilogy folks. Comic book fans got so caught up with the theatrics of that trilogy, that they didn't even realize that batman the character was being butchered right before their very eyes. This movie did Tony Stark much better justice.

And J.A.R.V.I.S? OH MAN!!! I am so surprised of how fantastic of a performance a computer ai could have in a movie. He saved Tony Stark, who was drowning underwater, by using his own right armor hand to help him up! So cool. And he also lead the entire Iron Man army. He was basically Tony Stark's sidekick, as well as his best friend, and man was he a good one! I never once even thought about how important J.A.R.V.I.S is to tony, prior to this movie. The same way I was shocked with Tony Stark the engineer, and Tony Stark the detective. This movie took it to another level. In some ways, all of these things add up to make tony stark more badass and much more interesting than he currently is in the comics. Does he have conversations with Jarvis like he does in the movie? If not, he should do more of that! That relationship between the two would be fantastic if it were an ongoing thing in his comics.

And I didn't even talk about the airplane scene. Oh man, I almost had a heart attack. Such an awesome hero moment. The best one I can recall in comic book movies. Better than Spiderman 2's train scene. In all seriousness, I think people are letting the mandarin ruin what was a PHENOMENAL movie. It was clearly head and shoulders above any of the other 2 movies. I think once people get over the mandarin situation, they'll realize how good of a movie this was. And appreciate all of the great things within this movie.

#2 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

everybody is butthurt that the mandarin is not the villain in the movie. only the figure piece. big whoop. and the comparisons to the dark knight rises..... well tdkr sucked and this didnt.

#3 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer said:

everybody is butthurt that the mandarin is not the villain in the movie. only the figure piece. big whoop. and the comparisons to the dark knight rises..... well tdkr sucked and this didnt.

Its an understandable butthurt, but that shouldn't automatically negate everything it did good. This movie was fantastic.

#4 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: understandable to a point. it was predictable after the 2nd video of the mandarin that he was fake. and most people will listen to the uproar of the butthurt 'fans' (i think it's BS the mandarin never had a considerable fanbase) and not see it or they'll be spoiled.

#5 Posted by TheCannon (18737 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't know what to think of this movie. On the one hand I thought the acting was excellent and the action was the best of the trilogy. On the other, some of the plot (mainly Mandarin, but there was some other stuff) p*ssed me off so much I wanted to walk out (which I have NEVER wanted to do in theaters).

Part of me wants to rank this one of the top 5 greatest comic films of all time, while the other part wants to say it's worse than Superman IV. Okay, maybe not that bad, but still down there.

#6 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@thetimestreamer: Lol yeah I never knew the mandarin had so many fans. Some are legitimately mad, but I believe there are many that are simply hating this movie just to hate it. Lol

Also, how'd you like Jarvis in this movie? I can't overestimate how well they handled him. I loved him in this movie. Him and tony fit together amazingly. I wonder if he has that big of a role in the comics. If not, he definitely should.

#7 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly don't know what to think of this movie. On the one hand I thought the acting was excellent and the action was the best of the trilogy. On the other, some of the plot (mainly Mandarin, but there was some other stuff) p*ssed me off so much I wanted to walk out (which I have NEVER wanted to do in theaters).

Part of me wants to rank this one of the top 5 greatest comic films of all time, while the other part wants to say it's worse than Superman IV. Okay, maybe not that bad, but still down there.

Understandable. I had about a 3 min anger period as well, but like thetimestreamer said, that second video was just goofy. I was beginning to simply laugh. I mean think back. When he broke the fortune cookies and gave a "fun fact" on them. It was HILARIOUS! lol

#8 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it was the best Iron Man movie. Here's the thing - the Mandarin cop-out was weird, but it didn't really bug me. I don't care much for the character, so the twist didn't come off that strongly to me. What does, in my opinion, prevent it from being a good Iron Man movie was that it didn't really feel like a superhero one.

The tone was more straight-up action, rather than the more high-tech superhero nature of the earlier two. I did like seeing Tony without the armor, and I guess it nailed the point of the movie (that Tony, even without the armor, is Iron Man) - but I still feel like it wasn't Iron Man-ish. The first two movies dealt with Stark's legacy as a weapons-designer, him dealing with technological crises (developing the Mark III, his chest poisoning), and fighting villains who were a result of his tech. It showed a Tony who was true to the comics. This movie had a different approach - which wasn't bad - but I felt deviated a little from its prequels.

And the script missed the entire point of Extremis. Extremis is not just regeneration and fire-breathing hitmen. Extremis was supposed to be about hacking the body's operating system in order to rewrite the genetic code to be able to accomplish anything. It was transhumanism - literally improving the human condition via technology. The whole point of Extremis was that it was the natural evolution for Tony - from a man wearing a suit to literally becoming a suit. The fact that Tony himself never even used Extremis, and that the entire concept was basically just a plot device irritated me.

Now don't get me wrong. My opinion is still that I thought it was a well-made movie and I enjoyed it. It's not a bad movie. I just prefer the first two.

Also, you kind of completely missed the point of the Dark Knight Trilogy. You can't compare Nolan's Batman to the comic-book Batman, simply because that wasn't the portrayal he was aiming for. They were going for a more grounded Batman, a Batman that wasn't the near-superhuman master of 127 martial arts genius inventor holds PhDs in 1000 subjects master of prep time Batman of the DC Universe. He wasn't meant to be an invincible tactician or detective - it was simply a different take on the character, and still valid.

#9 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: I understand what you are saying pertaining the trilogy. But if they can have Tony Stark build devices that eliminates about 12 guards. And if he can escape a superhuman while being handcuffed, by releasing a creating a chemical explosion, and it comes off as believable, batman could do something to show off even a little of his skills. And I hardly mentioned his scientific/tech skills. He simply got outsmarted by the joker and catwoman of all people. Lol. If you're not going to give him his skills, you can at least not let those two outsmart him.

#10 Edited by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: i like their interractions. in the comics he's the avengers butler. i havent seen him in a long time (last time was with the OMD where he was picking up may medical bills. i hate they didnt do the coupling of him and aunt may they were hinting at).

#11 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: i like their interractions. in the comics he's the avengers butler. i havent seen him in a long time (last time was with the OMD where he was picking up may medical bills. i hate they didnt do the coupling of him and aunt may they were hinting at).

they were hinting at that? hm. Interesting.

#12 Posted by theTimeStreamer (2841 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: back when peter was living in avengers tower. here are a few pics i found on the net.

#13 Posted by wolverine1610 (250 posts) - - Show Bio

While i didn't like the mandarin in the movie i like to think it was just some guy they made with the same name coincidentally and the real mandarin is waiting around the corner to blast everybody with his rings lol, i also didn't like that he blew up all his armors at the end. Other than that the movie was fantastic, not better than the first but the action scenes were way better than the other two. the comedy in the movie was superb too, i liked the part where after he saved the people from the plan he is immediately hit by a truck and the armor falls apart lol i was like omg he's dead....o wait its hollow

#14 Posted by Loki9876 (3049 posts) - - Show Bio

you are right
the mandarin issue is bothering me

#15 Posted by Loki9876 (3049 posts) - - Show Bio

While i didn't like the mandarin in the movie i like to think it was just some guy they made with the same name coincidentally and the real mandarin is waiting around the corner to blast everybody with his rings lol, i also didn't like that he blew up all his armors at the end. Other than that the movie was fantastic, not better than the first but the action scenes were way better than the other two. the comedy in the movie was superb too, i liked the part where after he saved the people from the plan he is immediately hit by a truck and the armor falls apart lol i was like omg he's dead....o wait its hollow

I hope they used e real terrorist to base his mandarin from, there was an organization called the ten rings and it was a real terrorist organization who needs a real leader.

#16 Posted by Saren (25678 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll never understand why you people feel compelled to compare everything to the Nolan trilogy. I realize Batman is the golden standard of all things, but have you never heard of judging something on its merits?

Moderator
#17 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

I'll never understand why you people feel compelled to compare everything to the Nolan trilogy. I realize Batman is the golden standard of all things, but have you never heard of judging something on its merits?

its often regarded as the only trilogy to have 3 at least good movies. So by default it is going to be compared to.

#18 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: I understand what you are saying pertaining the trilogy. But if they can have Tony Stark build devices that eliminates about 12 guards. And if he can escape a superhuman while being handcuffed, by releasing a creating a chemical explosion, and it comes off as believable, batman could do something to show off even a little of his skills. And I hardly mentioned his scientific/tech skills. He simply got outsmarted by the joker and catwoman of all people. Lol. If you're not going to give him his skills, you can at least not let those two outsmart him.

I think some context needs to be served for the Joker situation - it wasn't so much outsmart as it was 'in the heat of the moment'. Batman was desperate to save Rachel, so he never considered that the Joker had switched the addresses. Plus, this isn't really the Batman of the comics - who knows the Joker so well that he knows how he thinks. This is Batman's first encounter with an enemy of this nature (remember Alfred saying 'a man who just wants to watch the world burn'). As for the Catwoman one, again, it wasn't really outsmart. He put too much faith in her, and had an overconfidence that he could take Bane, so it was more of Batman's hubris than anything.

And Batman has shown a fair bit of detective and technical acumen throughout the trilogy. He came up with the concept of amplifying Fox's sonar technology to create the 'Bat-Computer'. He fixed the autopilot for the Bat. He does some tweaking with his suit - figuring that the headpiece was too brittle, as well as inserting a listening device into the cowl. He's shown doing detective work with the marked bills, Joker's gunshot, and running analyses on his handprint. And he played along with Gordon's death to capture Joker. It's not 'incredible' on the level of Iron Man 3, but considering the feasible nature of the Nolan trilogy, I think it's a not-too-shabby depiction of a grounded Bats.

But enough about Batman, I've already derailed your thread enough :P

#19 Posted by Saren (25678 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

I'll never understand why you people feel compelled to compare everything to the Nolan trilogy. I realize Batman is the golden standard of all things, but have you never heard of judging something on its merits?

its often regarded as the only trilogy to do have 3 at least good movies. So by default it is going to be compared to.

Peter Jackson would roll in his grave if he weren't still alive. Although I suppose you meant comic book movies.

Moderator
#20 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines said:

@citizenbane said:

I'll never understand why you people feel compelled to compare everything to the Nolan trilogy. I realize Batman is the golden standard of all things, but have you never heard of judging something on its merits?

its often regarded as the only trilogy to do have 3 at least good movies. So by default it is going to be compared to.

Peter Jackson would roll in his grave if he weren't still alive. Although I suppose you meant comic book movies.

LOL! yes, of course I meant comic book movies.

#21 Posted by CptPanda29 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

It's funny, as where people are praising the biggest risk they took - The Mandarin - it's really the biggest chicken move of the film, after it's been teased since the first movie.

This movie has Stark suffer from anxiety attacks - it's hardly post traumatic stress as he shrugs it off when it's convenient. It should have tackled how Stark feels exposed without his armour against a force he can't understand - magic / cosmic energy. It's why the trick with the Mandarin was a real bummer, because he would have been perfect for a way for Stark to relate this threat to something he can handle. As Iron Man's armour is a box of tricks, so are the Mandarins ten rings.

The Iron Man movies have had the same villain 3 times now. Stane, Hammer and Killian all wanted the controlling interest in warfare playing to both sides for money. In all the trailers you're led to believe that Mandarin is going to attack Stark due to his western symbolism of money being power, which a religious (cause they can't just call them Al Qaeda) terrorist cell like the Ten Rings would use their "blessed" and "supernatural" powers to defeat him.

Yes I'm telling professionals how to write their movies - it's called criticism.

#22 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark:

In this first paragraph, I see alot of excuses. Lol, but thats fine, I guess its just up to interpretation.

I would agree that the sonar, autopilot and the gunshot were batman like. But with everything else you seemed to be reaching for something that isn't there. Spiderman, Iron man, and every other superhero tweaks their suit, thats just expected an normal. I don't know how the marked bill means much considering it was done by the police and he simply checked if they were marked. I don't see how playing along with Gordon'd death is relevant either. I get the idea of being grounded. But Batman's greatest qualities are grounded. To say he can't be the detective/tactician he is in the comics because it is a grounded trilogy, isn't really an excuse. Its not like he's flying or anything, lol there are many movies/tv shows that have brilliant detectives. See Sherlock Holmes (movie) and Sherlock (tv). There's nothing fantastical about being a detective or a tactician.

But it is all opinion and interpretation. I understand and respect your opinion even though I disagree. I still think TDK is the best comic book movie storyline. =P

#23 Posted by Teerack (6337 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how the movie was more about Tony Stark then Iron Man, and the mandarin thing was one of the best movie twist in a really long time. I can honesty say this is the first time in like 8 years I was this surprised during a movie.

#24 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@cptpanda29: I understand your opinion, but Hammer never wanted to play both sides, he simply wanted to be the better company that made the better weapons. Stane wanted to turn tony's technology into a weapon to sell to everyone. Only Killian had a plan that would enable him to control both sides. Granted they are all obsessed with war and weapons, but at the end of the day, that's how Stark villains operate. The same way Bane, Joker, and Ra's al ghul all ended up aiming to destroy gotham in some way shape or form. They were all still good.

#25 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by CptPanda29 (211 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: Might have made my point badly there.

Stane, Hammer and Killian all wanted money as their endgame - screwing over Stark was a bonus for all of them along the way. The Golden Boy / Bitter Rivals / Jilted Partner are the only differences between them, but even that's a minor difference in the source of their grudge as their goals are the same.

To use your Dark Knight Trilogy analogy yes Ra's was aiming to destroy Gotham City - but it was nothing personal to Wayne as it was his plan for a long time (as seen by him recruiting Wayne from prison in the first place).

Joker wanted to destroy the people of Gotham, by taking away their symbols (Dent primarily and Batman if he could), and maybe make Wayne see the people of Gotham aren't worth saving. This Joker was fascinated by other people losing their sanity - it's why he once he saw what he had done to Dent he didn't care that he was still alive, he'd done far more damage that he'd hoped and was captivated by how Dent had lost it. It's made more obvious when he doesn't care if he lives or dies in that very room with the gun to his head as he'd broken one symbol that even disheartened Wayne (seen in his speech with the Gordon's hostage).

Then Bane wasn't even the villain of Rises, Talia wanted to hurt Wayne by taking away what was most precious to him to avenge her father - and wanted to be close enough to see it in the whites of his eyes as she did it. Destroying Gotham was a means to an end for her, and again she could have died happy knowing Wayne himself suffered.

So that's why I say Iron Man 1, 2 and Three have the same villain. The only exception (and why I genuinely think IM2 is the best of all 3 by a tiny fraction) is Vanko. He wanted to hurt Stark and didn't care how he did it. He would have rotted in that cell smiling thinking he'd humiliated Stark (make god bleed / stop believing yadda yadda) and exposing his plagiarized tech without Hammer busting him out just for him to help take out a corporate rival.

Three adds nothing to the table, and people saying Stark used "detective work" have been watching far too much CSI and taken Deus Ex Machina to the ridiculous extreme for an incredibly applicable science of deduction.

#27 Posted by longbowhunter (7093 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked seeing Pepper take a more active role. Killian was a great villain. Thought the whole Extremis thing was handled quite well. The big multi armor fight scene at the end was great. Didn't mind getting a whole movie of Tony outta the suit. Liked seeing him handle himself without his tech. Mandarin not actually being the Mandarin didn't even bother me. Him being a homeless whino with IBS did. Far from the best Iron Man movie. Considering the first one was near perfection on par with Batman Begins.

#28 Posted by Yasiiii4 (150 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: I agree with you 100%
But I was kind of upset when he took his arc reactor out and threw it away

#29 Edited by xybernauts (858 posts) - - Show Bio
  • I think Cheadles portrayal of Rhodey was a real improvement. I loved his action scenes. Wish he had more both in and out of armor. (Technically he had no real in armor action scenes).
  • Love the remote armor concept. And I agree, JARVIS was portrayed well.
  • I also enjoyed the romance between Stark and Pepper. And I liked seeing Pepper in armor. She should have her own custom armor.
  • I also enjoyed Stark's Avenger's induced PTSD.
@novi_homines said:

@thetimestreamer: Lol yeah I never knew the mandarin had so many fans. Some are legitimately mad, but I believe there are many that are simply hating this movie just to hate it. Lol

Also, how'd you like Jarvis in this movie? I can't overestimate how well they handled him. I loved him in this movie. Him and tony fit together amazingly. I wonder if he has that big of a role in the comics. If not, he definitely should.

I think it's less of an actual fan base and more of an expectation. Basically people expect the Mandarin to be Iron Man's arch enemy. If anything he's supposed to be Iron Man's Magneto or his Joker. People don't hate movies just to hate them, people just have different tastes. They have different expectations. I for one was expecting Stark's greatest nemesis. Plus the fact that the trailer was misleading didn't help. The movie was touted as being Stark's greatest battle, but instead it was a dud. Plus the story lacked focus. It felt like the movie was going some where significant, but it didn't really. It had a lackluster end.

Before the twist, the terrorist Mandarin actually seemed like a really good idea. Ben Kingsley's performance was really good. For along time now Marvel has been experimenting with different aspects of his character. I really liked this extremist direction, but really wish they kept his character serious in a Magneto-ish sort of way. Basically I hated the twist.

Also, after the Avenger's I was expecting to see magic introduced into the Iron Man world. The fact that it wasn't was a big disappointment.

The movie was shit, but it had some good elements.

#30 Posted by THORSON (2397 posts) - - Show Bio

i'll be waiting for this to go out on blu-ray, to witness the crap of iron man 3.

#31 Posted by THORSON (2397 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll never understand why you people feel compelled to compare everything to the Nolan trilogy. I realize Batman is the golden standard of all things, but have you never heard of judging something on its merits?

take your head out of the sand.

#32 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

What the film did right:

1. Jarvis

2. Tony's PTSD to a degree.

3. Tony Stark as a character to a degree.

4. The Mandarin until the already mentioned cop out.

5. Extremis for about the first 5 minutes of the film.

6. Rhodey out of the suit.

As you can see, even the things that were done right weren't done fully right lol the only perfect thing about the movie was, as has been the case with the past two films, Jarvis. I need to rewatch Iron Man 2 to make the best possible decision, but Iron Man 1 was certainly better than the 3rd. In general, I think a lot of supporters of the film are the ones who make a big deal about the Mandarin thing, automatically assuming that that twist is the only problem critics can possibly have with the film, which certainly isn't the case. What probably screwed this movie more than anything else was something that happened before it was even released. The trailers. This film was marketed in completely the wrong way for what it is. Therefore, of course people are disappointed with it, because it's not what they expected, and what it is isn't enough to make up for that failure. It's a decent movie on its own true, but that's all it is. I don't personally understand how anyone can say its better than the first one, or the Avengers for that matter.