Do you view Hulk and Banner as the same character?

Do you view Banner and the myriad of different Hulks as the same character or by this point in time different characters? Unlike She-Hulk who retains her memories and always considered herself the same person in either form, despite some different personality aspects and viewpoints on things, Banner and Hulk to my knowledge have never viewed themselves the same way. Instead, they often come across more as two or more completely independent people that inhabit the same body or space. Sort of like the times Rick Jones was merged with Captain Mar-vell or his son Genis. Only one could exist in a universe at the same time, but they were completely separate beings.

I think a strong case can be made for the Hulk(s) and Banner being separate beings by this point. From a physical and intellectual standpoint the different personalities are very different. Some of the personalities themselves like Fixit act very different from others. Yeah, all of the Hulks started as parts of Banner, but they were not the dominant aspects which defined who Banner was to other people. People tend to fall in love with or befriend one and not necessarily the other though they may accept the other as part of the package. Would Caiera have fallen in love with Banner if he was just Banner? How many times have Hulk and Banner talked to each other like they were separate people? One can argue Banner is just talking to himself and that it is proof of his insanity, but for the most part Banner has never struck me as being out of touch with reality. I suppose the best argument is that Doom was able to separate the two completely.

I admit at first Hulk was probably underdeveloped enough to be considered a rogue part of Banner. However, with the emergence of sometimes radically different personalities, physical differences, and how the different Hulk have developed relationships separate from those of Banner while Banner himself is still a fully functional individual I think one can rightly consider the different Hulks by this point in time to be separate characters. Heck, one post I read once claimed Banner is the sickness. He "died" in the gamma explosion that gave birth to the Hulk. I think that is going to far, but I think it is right that the Hulk was born with the gamma explosion.

thoughts?

Nope, I don't.

They are 2 different sides of the same coin. I view them as 2 different personalities of the same being.

@seekquaze: wasn't there one arc where banner had his hulk strength as bruce? that was around the same time as the other spiderman run. what happened to that?

Parker and Spider-Man retain the same physical features, memories, intellect, etc. Parker can "turn on/off" Spider-Man. None of the same is true for Banner and the Hulk.

I don't know. I have not read that many Hulk stories compared to other people on these boards.

Hulk and Banner are the same.They are the same person after all.

Over the years I have read several articles where the question of personal identity is raised and at what point does one change enough to be considered a "different" person. Both psychological and philosophical viewpoints were reviewed. Wolverine and Hulk were both examples used. In both cases, depending on what definition/measure you use every answer is correct. Some methods for determining identity say they are the same, others different, and others "sort of." I think a large part of it is personal opinion.

Take a look at Thor. Originally, Donald Blake was not considered "real." He was a construct created by Odin with false memories. Thor retained Blake's false memories, but was unquestionably the "real" one and had no problem getting rid of Blake. Over time, Blake developed enough on his own both memories, personality, and relationships that he became "real" to a point where even Thor began to recognize it.

I take a similar view of the Hulk. He started out as an aspect of Banner's inner thoughts and feelings, but overtime has developed enough to be considered his own person. As far as I know Dr. Doom was able to perfectly separate them so each could have independent existence. Banner still possessed all of his own memories, intellect, repressed feelings etc. Banner was messed up because with or without the Hulk Banner has issues. Hulk was getting along fine without him.

I suppose another way to look at it is...at what point would you stop considering Hulk an aspect of Banner and instead consider the Hulk his own person?

that is really not the same thing. peter parker is spiderman. he just puts on a mask and cracks jokes to hide his fears and distract his enemies. the hulk turns into a whole other green creature.

Kinda sorta.

yes Banner is the character. Hulk is Banners the expression of his life long suppressed rage.

Doom cut out everything that was purely Banner and put it in a cloned body. Doom considered the two separate beings. Hulk considered themselves two separate beings at this point. Heck, even Banner did or at least seemed to switch between view points. So how can you unequivically say that "Hulk is Banner." At what point does Hulk stop being an aspect of Banner and be his own person?

So at what point would you consider the Hulk to have become a separate individual? Ignoring for a moment whether or not you think the arc was terrible and going with the initial idea of Hulk and Banner being perfectly separated in different bodies at what point do you consider the Hulk to be his own being and not a part of Banner any more with Banner at best being his "father" but not part of the Hulk anymore than any other parent is part of their child?

' Plus the arc you just mention is generally beyond terrible.'

are u talking to me? i was asking about the arc where banner had the hulk strength even though he was still bruce. i loved the hulk then. i kind of took a hiatus after OMD so i missed a lot. i just started reading them about a year back. i still don't know what happened to that story line.

Par

A children's personality is heavily molded by their parent yet they are still considered a separate person. If Hulk is an individual then how can you say that he is Banner? I admit Banner and Hulk have a connection that one can say prevents either one of them from being a complete individual separate from the other when they are connected as one. At the same time, I think it is much to say that they are the same character/person.

He is talking to me and Jason Aaron's run on the Hulk. Aaron had Doom completely separate Banner and Hulk in a way that was not detrimental to them like in past attempts. Without the Hulk to focus him or take on his traumas all of Banner's "issues" came to a fore making him a mad scientist. On several Hulk boards at least the run was not well received.

@christianrapper: @seekquaze: That was Zen Banner

Yes

Two sides of the same coin. So, yes and no at the same time.

Bruce is the wimpy scientist and Hulk is Dr. Bruce Banner's super-powered angry side.

Well, for me, Bruce's personality is parted in many pieces. Each of them manifest various transformations(with different power levels). For example: World breaker - Banner's angriest, most wrathful side; Savage hulk: his most childish and brutish side.

No, I get that part. What I am asking you is at what (if any) point would you start considering any personality of the Hulk to be more than that?

Let me put it another way. On one Star Trek: TNG episode a transporter accident created a duplicate of Commander Riker with the same genetics, personalities and memories. By pretty much all measures they could be considered the same person. Yet, life experiences caused changes in their personalities that the two considered themselves different persons.

With the Hulk, the different incarnations started out as fragments of Banner's emotions and personalities. Yet overtime some of them have had experience and developed relationships that Banner himself would never had or at least in different ways from Banner. We have seen that the two can be separated into different physical bodies. To you is there any point or circumstances where they would be considered separate entities with Banner more or less being the "parent" or to you is the Hulk, no matter the incarnation, going to be a fragment of Banner?

So in your viewpoint the major Hulk incarnations have developed enough to where they were originally shaped by Banner's personality, but since each one thinks individually and has formed relationships on their own each major Hulk personality has developed enough to be considered an individual?

Depends who is writing it.

Exactly.

It is all one man