Zeus and Odin. Let's compare them.

Zeus is Odin's equal. Confirmed by Marvel multiple times. Can he bust Galaxies like Odin did against Seth ?

A bit of raw material here :

Odin

Gallery

Zeus

Gallery

1) "Even then it may be possible for a God of equal power such as Odin [..]"

2) (scan 4) "Even then it may be possible for a God of equal power such as Odin [..]"

You can notice that Zeus seems to be a more powerful energy manipulator than Odin.

The point here is to compare two characters with similar powers to see if eventually Zeus can do the same things than Odin even he don't have the feats yet.

Zeus is a dirty old man.

I expected a post more substantial

Well if he's equal then he should be able to do everything Odin can

They're equals

Then if :

1. A has the same power-set and is more powerful than B
2. B can do X

THEN

A can do at least X.

shamefully..........no one will take notice of this

I guess.

They are around equal. It's been stated multiple times, and there hasn't been anything to say otherwise. I think people think they are of different levels because Odin usually fights his battles using his vast power and abilities (telepathy, energy manipulation, time manipulation, enchantments, ect), while Zeus mostliy relies on physical strength, and lightning bolts. Just by looking at that it would seem Odin is more impressive.

I agree.

Their powers are equal but they don't have exactly the same abilities.

Zeus is better in certain domains and Odin better in others.

If we apply the same logic to the Sentry whom as proved himself more powerful than Molecule Man can't we just mind that he can operate at the same scale ?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/if-sentry-is-cosmic-cube-tier-then-1695482/#23

@realitywarper said:

@heirtothekingdom said:

They are around equal. It's been stated multiple times, and there hasn't been anything to say otherwise. I think people think they are of different levels because Odin usually fights his battles using his vast power and abilities (telepathy, energy manipulation, time manipulation, enchantments, ect), while Zeus mostliy relies on physical strength, and lightning bolts. Just by looking at that it would seem Odin is more impressive.

I agree.

Their powers are equal but they don't have exactly the same abilities.

Zeus is better in certain domains and Odin better in others.

If we apply the same logic to the Sentry whom as proved himself more powerful than Molecule Man can't we just mind that he can operate at the same scale ?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/if-sentry-is-cosmic-cube-tier-then-1695482/#23

Eh I think the Sentry is an entirely different case. Though to be honest, I do agree with you that Sentry operates on a higher level of power than most people believe. Just not that high up.

How ?

He is the only one on the Marvel Earth to have beat Molecule Man so easily ,even he had no beliefs on his abilities and wasn't the crippled and crazy bald Molecule Man.

Besides beating the doo-doo out of the Hulk, Zeus has almost no feats.

Yeah but that's just one feat, and for me I usually have to see a character operate at such a level for it to be within his power to be of such status. In Sentry's case that was only feat of such a magnitude, and seeing how writers have characters do insane feats one time and never again, I believe this is the case with the Sentry. Though don't think wrongly of what I've said, Sentry in my opinion should still be more powerful than Thor, Hulk, Black Bolt, heck even Thanos in my opinion.

And Molecule Man has only beat The Beyonder once, and he struggled a lot more than Sentry when this one discovered that he could counter Molecule Man.

Odin destroyed some galaxies during his fight against Seth.

Do you think that he is incapable to do it again ?

i want zeus feats from marvel

@realitywarper:

And Molecule Man has only beat The Beyonder once, and he struggled a lot more than Sentry when this one discovered that he could counter Molecule Man.

That is true, but there was context to that if I remember correct, though I don't remember what it was. Also the difference is that Molecule Man was opperating at such a level in more than one appearance oppose to Sentry's one feat. The Molecule Man that the Beyonder fought was much, much, much more powerful than the one Sentry did. Comparing Sentry to Beyonder is like comparing Ego The Living Planet to an ant.

Odin destroyed some galaxies during his fight against Seth.

I don't think he destroyed galaxies on his own, I believe it was with the collision of both of their powers that did that. I personally don't believe he could accomplish that alone. A galaxy is extremely large, and houses billions of planets in a galaxy, so I don't think Odin could destroy all of those.

Do you think that he is incapable to do it again ?

Not at all seeing as how that was in the classic days, and Odin doesn't seem to be nearly as powerful. Not to mention the feat as I said above wasn't done by himself.

They should technically be able to do the same things,(although Zeus can do some. things better than Odin and vice versa)but it is really up to their personalities. I mean, thor can speedblitz, but how many times does thor do that? Unless he has to

That is true, but there was context to that if I remember correct, though I don't remember what it was. Also the difference is that Molecule Man was opperating at such a level in more than one appearance oppose to Sentry's one feat.

There is two points here :

1) The Molecule Man control over his powers is so good now that he don't do collateral damages anymore (why affecting the Multiverse when you have just a few molecules to control ?)

2) The writers don't shows multiversal feats everytimes for the characters already established as multiversal.

For exemple the Ivory Kings :

Gallery

In short : We already know that The Molecule Man is far far far above the other Cosmic Cube beings and as he don't have beliefs on his abilities (that's the only thing that limitate his powers) he operated at his best against The Sentry.

The Molecule Man that the Beyonder fought was much, much, much more powerful than the one Sentry did.

Not really.

It's more the contrary :

Gallery

After this, Owen met Doc Samson to manage his mental issues and the "bald molecule man less powerful than the real Owen in control" didn't surface during Dark Avengers.

That's another proof that Owen was way more sane than usual.

Moreover Kubik said the sane Owen is more more more powerful than the bald one (whom is already above the other Cosmic Cube beings and multiversal in power).

Moreover (and I posted that several times) Owen had NO beliefs on his abilities and that means that he was at full power.

Tom Brevoort confirmed it.

Comparing Sentry to Beyonder is like comparing Ego The Living Planet to an ant.

If we use logic it's more the Beyonder whom is an ant compared to The Sentry as Molecule Man roflstomped The Beyonder and Sentry roflstomped Molecule Man.

I don't think he destroyed galaxies on his own, I believe it was with the collision of both of their powers that did that. I personally don't believe he could accomplish that alone. A galaxy is extremely large, and houses billions of planets in a galaxy, so I don't think Odin could destroy all of those.

Why ? They destroyed multiple galaxies (just look at the scans in the OP).

Even if it's a shared feat that means that they are at least able to destroy one galaxy on their own.

Not at all seeing as how that was in the classic days, and Odin doesn't seem to be nearly as powerful.

Or he don't use his power like in the old days.

I don't remember Marvel officialy weakening him.

Not to mention the feat as I said above wasn't done by himself.

I answered to this point already.

I don't recall Zeus having any decent tp feats and he doesn't have rune magic. His power is similar but Odin's power comes from the OF which is not the same thing Zeus is powered by. Could it be similar? yes but while they are on a similar level of power Odin has shown more ways he can use his power and has more powerful feats. Its similar to saying Thor and Hercules are equals. In terms of sheer strength and melee fighting ability they are. Thor has more powers at his disposal though and better high end feats using them.

@realitywarper:

There is two points here :

1) The Molecule Man control over his powers is so good now that he don't do collateral damages anymore (why affecting the Multiverse when you have just a few molecules to control ?)

2) The writers don't shows multiversal feats everytimes for the characters already established as multiversal.:

1) because he has more control over his powers, doesn't mean he's nearly as powerful. There isn't anything to show that Molecule Man is of the same level he was when he fought Beyonder. In fact it's quite the opposite as shown when he fought the Sentry and lost.

2) The writers would at least show something that would indicate that a character is still as powerful as they used to be. Take The Living Tribunal for example, he is constantly shown at the level he's supposed to be at, while Owen isn't exactly shown the level of power his pasts self did.

For exemple the Ivory Kings

In short : We already know that The Molecule Man is far far far above the other Cosmic Cube beings and as he don't have beliefs on his abilities (that's the only thing that limitate his powers) he operated at his best against The Sentry.

Nothing to say he was operating at his best, especially seeing the stuff he's been pulling of recently.

Not really.

It's more the contrary :

Okay you may be right here.

If we use logic it's more the Beyonder whom is an ant compared to The Sentry as Molecule Man roflstomped The Beyonder and Sentry roflstomped Molecule Man.

I don't remember Beyonder getting stomped, but if you're saying that Beyonder is much weaker than the Sentry, then there isn't much for me to say here as it's entirely wrong. You call Sentry "Cosmic Cube Tier", but than try to put him on a level much higher than that. What's your reasoning?

Why ? They destroyed multiple galaxies (just look at the scans in the OP).

Even if it's a shared feat that means that they are at least able to destroy one galaxy on their own.

I think they meant over the course of the battle they destroyed many galaxies, not that many in one blast.

Or he don't use his power like in the old days.

I don't remember Marvel officialy weakening him.

They haven't, but it's pretty apparent he's not as powerful. Kind of like with many Marvel characters like Thor, Wonder Man, Count Nefaria, ect.

1) because he has more control over his powers, doesn't mean he's nearly as powerful. There isn't anything to show that Molecule Man is of the same level he was when he fought Beyonder. In fact it's quite the opposite as shown when he fought the Sentry and lost.

He wasn't depowered in any way and only the beliefs on his abilities are susceptible to prevent him to use his powers to their full potential. I'm not inventing it : it's in all of his bios and it's said the same way in all of his appearences.

2) The writers would at least show something that would indicate that a character is still as powerful as they used to be. Take The Living Tribunal for example, he is constantly shown at the level he's supposed to be at, while Owen isn't exactly shown the level of power his pasts self did.

It's the case when Owen is specifically shown unable to do something but then it is specified by Owen himself or by the narrator. In his case, Bendis let a few assessments in his bio in the Dark Reign Files to indicate that he had an early belief as he tought that he was unable to manipulate the genetic material but he told to Osborn that he could manipulate it during Dark Avengers, or that he was unimaginative but he used his powers to manipulate Osborn's memories or to get rid of the Dark Avengers all in a personalised way so... The point of Bendis was to show a Molecule Man without any beliefs on his abilities and that means that he was at full power. No limitations = No limits.

Nothing to say he was operating at his best, especially seeing the stuff he's been pulling of recently.

Hum... Why not ?

Bendis compared Sentry's reality altering powers to House Of M Scarlet Witch years before his encounter with Molecule Man. He obviously wanted to show that Sentry had the potential to beat Owen : Wanda affected the Multiverse with her powers, that put her in the same weight-class than Owen.

Okay you may be right here.

I hope so.

I don't remember Beyonder getting stomped, but if you're saying that Beyonder is much weaker than the Sentry, then there isn't much for me to say here as it's entirely wrong.

Owen literally pulled off Beyonder's life-force out of Kosmos to put it inside old Beyonder's body so they can both fight at their best.

Even with that he was unable to kill the Sentry 3 times. Bob can manipulate his own lifeforce, he can even separate it like putting one part in The Sentry and another one in The Void.

Bob had zero training of his reality altering powers, and once he get that he could manipulate it (even he thinked that was molecular manipulation), he was able to subdue and seemingly slain Owen easily.

As I remember that never happened before in Marvel's history.

You call Sentry "Cosmic Cube Tier", but than try to put him on a level much higher than that. What's your reasoning?

Owen is a Cosmic Cube being and other CC beings, like Kubik, put him far far above their own level of power.

So I see Owen at the top of the Cosmic Cube tier but below the abstracts.

Sentry showed to be more powerful than Owen so I put him just above Owen and below the abstracts.

I think they meant over the course of the battle they destroyed many galaxies, not that many in one blast.

I agree.

Or he don't use his power like in the old days.

Except if Marvel gave informations about Odin being depowered that sounds the most logical conclusion to me too.

They haven't, but it's pretty apparent he's not as powerful.

Maybe.

I don't have the answer yet.

Kind of like with many Marvel characters like Thor, Wonder Man, Count Nefaria, ect.

Do you think ?

@realitywarper: since you used Tom to your aid. Did you get the time he stated Odin was NOT a galaxy buster.

He also said sentry is hyped up

I wasn't aware of that.

Do you have the scan ?

It's strange because the fight against Seth shows them destroying Galaxies.

@realitywarper: I just spunt 30 min looking for it. I'll try another

He didn't say that Sentry is hyped up.

Where did you get that ?

Brevoort told me 2 times that he don't want to be involved in battleboard question, including the fight between Sentry & Molecule Man.

Gallery

Brevoort just said that we can't use ABC logic for comic book characters even that's not true in some cases :

Exemple 1 :

Wolverine can lift 800 lbs.

Hulk is stronger than Wolverine then Hulk can at least lift 800 lbs like Wolverine.

Exemple 2:

Molecule Man can warp the reality on a multiversal scale.

Sentry reality warping power is more powerful than Molecule Man's reality altering powers therefore Sentry can at least alter the reality at the same scale than Molecule Man.

I used exactly the same logic in both cases and that's true in both cases.

Moreover Bendis said years ago that Sentry had the raw power to do it :

@realitywarper: nah it was something along the lines of Sentry being overhyped because he defeated MM. TB said "so did FF and others, are they multiverse?"

That's along the lines of a child going "dad I did my chores yesterday can go outside" and the dad saying "so did your siblings, are they outside?"

Implying otherwise

They have been stated as equals multiple times but they've never fought seriously.

nah it was something along the lines of Sentry being overhyped because he defeated MM. TB said "so did FF and others, are they multiverse?"

Yep. In totally different circumstances.

If a Boxer A defeats a Boxer B in a boxing contest you will aknowledge than one is harder / better / faster / stronger than the other.

That's along the lines of a child going "dad I did my chores yesterday can go outside" and the dad saying "so did your siblings, are they outside?"

Hum.

Implying otherwise

@realitywarper:

Hey don't tell me dat. Tell TB, you used him and I used him. That was the circumstance.

I already posted the two scans about Sentry Vs Molecule Man where TB say that he don't want to be involved in battleboard questions and especially this one.

That would be enough.

Sentry is street level

@realitywarper: that was after what he already got across

What ? oO

I think Zeus has more raw strength (physical) but Odin has a larger variety of ability

That logic makes no sense. You can have more feats and still suck more than someone who doesn't have as much.

Odin's feats are better though

Obviously. Zeus is near featless. The point that "more feats = better" doesn't make sense through.

@dcandmarvelcomicfan: I'm not reading a RT without citations.

Even that can be wrong. Characters can be carried above using hype and scaling rather than pure feats.