Your Impressions/Ranking of Mainstream Shonen Anime/Manga?

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A lot of users on this site and otakus generally don't enjoy mainstream shounen anime due to being too long in episodes, containing too much filler, lacking consistency of quality (of both art & story) and/or for a lot more reasons. At the same time many fans do enjoy the drawn episodes and the anime's "shonen-istic" qualities that withhold action, adventure, friendship, romance and more elements.

What do you as a Viner think? Do you enjoy shounen anime or manga, likewise? If so or if not, why?

And I refer to the really popular mainstream shonen anime, like:

  • Naruto
  • One Piece
  • Bleach
  • Fairy Tail
  • Hunter X Hunter
  • Toriko

All these are one of the most if not the most popular (on-going) shonen anime worldwide.

How do you rank these anime from best to worst?

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ShenKuei

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#2  Edited By ShenKuei

@thechosenlolofgod: How do you rank these anime from best to worst?

  • Hunter X Hunter (best)
  • Naruto
  • One Piece
  • Bleach
  • Toriko
  • Fairy Tail (worst)

I must note that I've only seen like one episode each of Fairy Tale and Toriko so I can't judge them too well.

Do you enjoy shounen anime or manga, likewise? If so or if not, why?

Yeah I enjoy it, although I much prefer seinen type manga. I think I might be too old for shonen at this point. After many years of being a shonen fan I've come to realize that they really are aimed at teenagers. Most shonen wholeheartedly embraces the same painfully cliche themes they've been repeating ad nauseum for decades. On the plus side, the character interaction and development can be interesting. And there's usually a decent amount of humor. But overall the writing is notably shallower and weaker than seinen IMO.

I have no issue with the art style.

When it comes to "popular/mainstream" manga I think they tend to be better than your average shonen manga. I just wish seinen were more popular in the west. Even my second favorite on your list, Naruto, is no better than your average seinen manga IMO. When most people say that they hate anime or aren't into it, they are thinking of shonen. It always irritates me when I hear people say that because they are judging an entire medium based on probably having seen just a few episodes of Naruto or something, if even that that. You can't blame them though, because that's all anyone ever talks about. Shonen manga.

It may seem like I am hating on shonen but I'm not. I have greatly enjoyed them at times. But I just get really tired of people talking about them same half-dozen series non-stop, especially when they're not that good relative to some of the rest of what's out there.

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Fallschirmjager

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#3  Edited By Fallschirmjager

Shouen sucks. The whole genre can die afaic. There are RomCom anime that are better than those you just listed.

also this:

@shenkuei said:

When most people say that they hate anime or aren't into it, they are thinking of shonen. It always irritates me when I hear people say that because they are judging an entire medium based on probably having scene just a few episodes of Naruto or something, if even that that. You can't blame them though, because that's all anyone ever talks about. Shonen manga.

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Wolverine008

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#4  Edited By Wolverine008

I love shonen even with all the b#tching people give it. I've always found the complaints around it picky and honestly a little snobby. Most of the time to me shonen dislike just seems like the tendency people have to just dislike popular things because it's popular. I've just gotten the vibe shonen hate comes from people salty the seinin manga they enjoy just isn't popular.

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ShenKuei

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@fallschirmjager: Have you seen HxH? It's insanely good.

I love shonen even with all the b#tching people give it. I've always found the complaints around it picky and honestly a little snobby. Most of the time to me shonen dislike just seems like the tendency people have to just dislike popular things because it's popular.

I'm not disliking it because it's popular. But it get irritating when literally 99% of anime/manga-related posts are about Bleach/Naruto/One Piece.

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Wolverine008

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@shenkuei: I really don't see how that's much different than 99% of the comic related posts are Batman/Superman/Spider-Man/DC/Marvel oriented. People talk about popular things more. Shonen is popular, thus it shall be talked about more. Not the genre's fault.

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Fallschirmjager

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#7  Edited By Fallschirmjager
@wolverine08 said:

I love shonen even with all the b#tching people give it. I've always found the complaints around it picky and honestly a little snobby. Most of the time to me shonen dislike just seems like the tendency people have to just dislike popular things because it's popular. I've just gotten the vibe shonen hate comes from people salty the seinin manga they enjoy just isn't popular.

Oh please. Go watch something like Monster and then try to tell me shonen holds a candle to it from a story telling perspective. It doesn't even compare.

Has nothing to do with being popular. It has to do with shonen fans who think that its the epitome of manga/anime. Fine if you like it, but don't for a second think its better than what it is.

The stories are mediocre - even when good. The protagonist are all extremely similar and cliche, the comedy is not really the funny and extremely predictable. The genre itself is basically (and sorry its this insults you) for kids. The word shonen literally means young-boy. Its about teenagers and its usually targeted for teenagers.

And even the action - the one thing the genre has going for it - is not all that good. Especially in animation. Naruto in particular has some of the most infamous animation fails, its not even funny.

Fine if you like, I don't really care, everyone is allowed to like what they want and ultimately its all subjective. But don't insult people who've read/watched hundreds of manga/anime and know how they stack up. Its like watching Transformers and then saying people who don't like it because its a joke compared to Shawkshank Redemption are just hating on its cos its popular.

@shenkuei said:

@fallschirmjager: Have you seen HxH? It's insanely good.

Watched the old one. Hated it.

No interest in the new one. I hate teenage protagonists. With a passion.

I'm pretty picky nowadays. Honestly I would not even watched AoT had the animation quality been so damn good.

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ShenKuei

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@shenkuei: I really don't see how that's much different than 99% of the comic related posts are Batman/Superman/Spider-Man/DC/Marvel oriented. People talk about popular things more. Shonen is popular, thus it shall be talked about more. Not the genre's fault.

I get tired of that too. I'm not blaming the genre, it's the fans. The genre is okay, I'm just not crazy about it.

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Wolverine008

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#9  Edited By Wolverine008

@fallschirmjager: Thank you for educating me about the complexities of quality good sir. Only your sophisticated tastes could teach me. You are the unknown critic the manga world needs. You tell me that the problem is shonen fans whom think that shonen is the epitome of anime/manga when the problem really lies with people like you whom stick their noses up at what they consider to be failing of quality in their eyes. How ironic. Thanks for confirming my hunch.

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ShenKuei

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@fallschirmjager: The anime version sucks. Both of them. I'm talking about the manga, which is far better.

I'm kind of picky myself to be honest. Just comes from having seen way too many anime/manga I think.

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WarDishy_

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#11  Edited By WarDishy_

I've never watched or read Hunter x Hunter, Toriko, or Fairy Tail.

Bleach, Naruto and One Piece are all anime/manga that I've enjoyed, although they all have their ups and downs. And the genre is certainly very... worn-out, I guess? I don't want to sound like I'm knocking it, because when I was at that age range (14) I loved Bleach etc. Hajime no Ippo was good too. And the humour in shonen can be okay.

My favourite manga not on this list:

- Death Note

- Bakuman

- Full Metal Alchemist

- Monster

- ...it's been a while, I'm drawing a blank. I did like Battle Angel Alita and Guyver too from what I can remember. It was a while ago.

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Billy Batson

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#12  Edited By Billy Batson

@wardishy:

Are you saying that Monster is shonen or are you just naming it?

BB

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@billy_batson: Just naming it to illustrate my tastes outside of core shonen battle manga like Naruto and Bleach. I know it's not shonen lol.

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Billy Batson

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@wardishy:

Okay, good. It would have weirded me out if you thought it was shonen, lol.

You should check out Urasawa's other works as well.

BB

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@wardishy:

20th Century Boys, Pluto and Billy Bat. I enjoyed the first two more than Monster and I've heard great things about Billy Bat.

BB

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@fallschirmjager: Not ball shone is bad. Craply shonen like Fairy Tail however is then definition of the badness though.

Immensely bland main character.

Illogical power ups .

Failing to follow up on villain hype.

Ignoring everyone but a few main heroes.

Episodic plot.

Etc.

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Fallschirmjager

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#18  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@wolverine08 said:

@fallschirmjager: Thank you for educating me about the complexities of quality good sir. Only your sophisticated tastes could teach me. You are the unknown critic the manga world needs. You tell me that the problem is shonen fans whom think that shonen is the epitome of anime/manga when the problem really lies with people like you whom stick their noses up at what they consider to be failing of quality in their eyes. How ironic. Thanks for confirming my hunch.

Actually you had the nerve to say I only hated on it cos its popular.

I then went on to tell you what is wrong with the genre as a whole, mediocre story telling, lackluster animation, lack of originality and so on and so forth. And I also said the fans who blatantly ignore this, act like the HST is named so because its the greatest manga every written and not because of popular and shove it in your face are extremely annoying.

So in essence, nothing you said was confirmed. Actually the entirety of my point was confirmed.

I also said its all subjective and you're free to enjoy what you want. But people who run around acting like shonen is such a great and fantastic genre of anime when they've literally read or watched NOTHING else, insults the genre as a whole and insults people who've actually spent time reading more than just that.

I couldn't care less if they are popular or not. I'm a fan of plenty of popular things. It has nothing to do with it. But trying to make a claim like "they're doing nothing but bitching because its popular" is extremely laughable, when I've not only read the source material in question, I've read others like it and I've read contrasting stories and found shonen extremely lacking.

The fact that you think such a criticism is "bitching because its popular" is not unlike shonen fans as well. Or fans of anything that's popular. Its against the rules to criticize it apparently. Because popularity = quality right?

Popularity has nothing to do with it. I don't post in HST threads and generally ignore them. The OP specifically asked for opinions. I offered some criticism and a opposing view and people get butthurt. How typical.

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deactivated-5d2b83d5a0d79

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I stopped enjoying modern/mainstream shonen years ago. Sh*t tier storytelling and sh*ttier characters with tired and overdone cliches and tropes. I can enjoy it for nostalgia value though and there are still some shonen series that are special to me, regardless of how sh*tty they are.

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Billy Batson

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Shonen isn't a genre, though. It's just a name to for the demographic.

BB

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Wolverine008

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#21  Edited By Wolverine008

@fallschirmjager said:

@wolverine08 said:

@fallschirmjager: Thank you for educating me about the complexities of quality good sir. Only your sophisticated tastes could teach me. You are the unknown critic the manga world needs. You tell me that the problem is shonen fans whom think that shonen is the epitome of anime/manga when the problem really lies with people like you whom stick their noses up at what they consider to be failing of quality in their eyes. How ironic. Thanks for confirming my hunch.

Actually you had the nerve to say I only hated on it cos its popular.

I then went on to tell you what is wrong with the genre as a whole, mediocre story telling, lackluster animation, lack of originality and so on and so forth. And I also said the fans who blatantly ignore this, act like the HST is named so because its the greatest manga every written and not because of popular and shove it in your face are extremely annoying.

So in essence, nothing you said was confirmed. Actually the entirety of my point was confirmed.

I also said its all subjective and you're free to enjoy what you want. But people who run around acting like shonen is such a great and fantastic genre of anime when they've literally read or watched NOTHING else, insults the genre as a whole and insults people who've actually spent time reading more than just that.

I couldn't care less if they are popular or not. I'm a fan of plenty of popular things. It has nothing to do with it. But trying to make a claim like "they're doing nothing but bitching because its popular" is extremely laughable, when I've not only read the source material in question, I've read others like it and I've read contrasting stories and found shonen extremely lacking.

The fact that you think such a criticism is "bitching because its popular" is not unlike shonen fans as well. Or fans of anything that's popular. Its against the rules to criticize it apparently. Because popularity = quality right?

Popularity has nothing to do with it. I don't post in HST threads and generally ignore them. The OP specifically asked for opinions. I offered some criticism and a opposing view and people get butthurt. How typical.

Y'know, I think I've identified the problem here. You're a weeeeeeeeee bit overtly sensitive boyo. When did I see that you dislike shonen because it was popular? Please tell where the words: "Fallschirmjager does not like shonen just because it is popular" appeared in my post. Did you actually take your time and readmy original post? I said that in my experience a lot of the hate from shonen comes from people whom seem to dislike just because it has achieved large amounts of popularity. All it would have taken for you to figure this out are basic reading comprehension skills. Do you represent the entirety of shonen dislikers now that a term like people would refer to you? Trust me, if I really wanted to call you out specifically, I would have. My nerve is that high. Why did my post touch such a personal string with you? If you didn't actually dislike shonen because of its popularity, you wouldn't have had any worries as you read my post, and would have just went about your business. But do you want to know why my comment struck such a personal accord with you? Psssstttt, I'll tell you the secret: It's because you actually do. People like you whom get all patronizing with other people because they enjoy things that you deem to be sub par quality wise are the problem. People like you get comic/manga fans stereotyped as being close minded. You're the one whom is insulting to the comic and manga fans whom are actually open minded. Why the hell do you have a problem if people with people feeling that shounen is the sauce? Ignore them. Ignore people like you whom are all butthurt about shounen. Go write a manga of the highest quality if you are the quality bearer. No one here is buthhurt but you amigo, but hey, like I said, why are you wasting your time on ComicVine and me? The world needs a new Roger Ebert, and it looks like you're gunning hard for that spot. Bless the world with your taste for quality.

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ShenKuei

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Wow...people are getting a little aggressive over this...

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Wolverine008

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@shenkuei said:

Wow...people are getting a little aggressive over this...

No Caption Provided

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Fallschirmjager

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#24  Edited By Fallschirmjager

@wolverine08 said:

@fallschirmjager said:

@wolverine08 said:

@fallschirmjager: Thank you for educating me about the complexities of quality good sir. Only your sophisticated tastes could teach me. You are the unknown critic the manga world needs. You tell me that the problem is shonen fans whom think that shonen is the epitome of anime/manga when the problem really lies with people like you whom stick their noses up at what they consider to be failing of quality in their eyes. How ironic. Thanks for confirming my hunch.

Actually you had the nerve to say I only hated on it cos its popular.

I then went on to tell you what is wrong with the genre as a whole, mediocre story telling, lackluster animation, lack of originality and so on and so forth. And I also said the fans who blatantly ignore this, act like the HST is named so because its the greatest manga every written and not because of popular and shove it in your face are extremely annoying.

So in essence, nothing you said was confirmed. Actually the entirety of my point was confirmed.

I also said its all subjective and you're free to enjoy what you want. But people who run around acting like shonen is such a great and fantastic genre of anime when they've literally read or watched NOTHING else, insults the genre as a whole and insults people who've actually spent time reading more than just that.

I couldn't care less if they are popular or not. I'm a fan of plenty of popular things. It has nothing to do with it. But trying to make a claim like "they're doing nothing but bitching because its popular" is extremely laughable, when I've not only read the source material in question, I've read others like it and I've read contrasting stories and found shonen extremely lacking.

The fact that you think such a criticism is "bitching because its popular" is not unlike shonen fans as well. Or fans of anything that's popular. Its against the rules to criticize it apparently. Because popularity = quality right?

Popularity has nothing to do with it. I don't post in HST threads and generally ignore them. The OP specifically asked for opinions. I offered some criticism and a opposing view and people get butthurt. How typical.

Y'know, I think I've identified the problem here. You're a weeeeeeeeee bit overtly sensitive boyo. When did I see that you dislike shonen because it was popular? Please tell where the words: "Fallschirmjager does not like shonen just because it is popular" appeared in my post. Did you actually take your time and readmy original post? I said that in my experience a lot of the hate from shonen comes from people whom seem to dislike just because it has achieved large amounts of popularity. All it would have taken for you to figure this out are basic reading comprehension skills. Do you represent the entirety of shonen dislikers now that a term like people would refer to you? Trust me, if I really wanted to call you out specifically, I would have. My nerve is that high. Why did my post touch such a personal string with you? If you didn't actually dislike shonen because of its popularity, you wouldn't have had any worries as you read my post, and would have just went about your business. But do you want to know why my comment struck such a personal accord with you? Psssstttt, I'll tell you the secret: It's because you actually do. People like you whom get all patronizing with other people because they enjoy things that you deem to be sub par quality wise are the problem. People like you get comic/manga fans stereotyped as being close minded. You're the one whom is insulting to the comic and manga fans whom are actually open minded. Why the hell do you have a problem if people with people feeling that shounen is the sauce? Ignore them. Ignore people like you whom are all butthurt about shounen. Go write a manga of the highest quality if you are the quality bearer. No one here is buthhurt but you amigo, but hey, like I said, why are you wasting your time on ComicVine and me? The world needs a new Roger Ebert, and it looks like you're gunning hard for that spot. Bless the world with your taste for quality.

Oh please. Don't play the naive and cute card. People do this all the time, reply in the thread with a snippy comment without specifically tagging.

We ourselves have done it before, no less.

I was only pointing out the blatantly hypocrisy in your not-so-clever post. The only one basing his arguments on popularity is you. Probably because its the only argument you have.

It struck a cord with me because I'm passionate about Manga and I have a problem with people who act like shonen is the greatest thing since sliced bread despite the fact they've never read anything else. Yeah, real open minded. Come back when you've actually read something else and tell me of how awesome is.

I don't have a problem if you think its awesome, I said so multiple times in my posts (funny you mentioned reading comprehension). But you having a problem with people criticizing - people who've not only read it in huge amounts, but also every other type of manga and then trying some pathetic argument like "oh you only don't like it cos its popular" is the issue I have.

Rest assured, if you woke up tomorrow and realized it was bad, I wouldn't change my opinion. It has nothing to do with popularity.

But you're clearly the all-knowing and clever one here. Its why you are trying to insert levity into the situation. Mission accomplished, your wit is unending. Never mind the fact that half of what you said specifically applies to you as well.

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Wolverine008

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#25  Edited By Wolverine008

@fallschirmjager:

Oh please. Don't play the naive and cute card. People do this all the time, reply in the thread with a snippy comment without specifically tagging.

You keep saying "Oh please". You don't have to ask for my permission to speak to me, I enjoy this. Hey, guess what? I'm not those people you're referring to. If I want to direct something at someone, you know what I'll do? I'll direct it. There isn't anything special about you that I'd be worried about directing a comment at you. Like I said, don''t be so touchy.

It struck a cord with me because I'm passionate about Manga and I have a problem with people who act like shonen is the greatest thing since sliced bread despite the fact they've never read anything else. Yeah, real open minded. Come back when you've actually read something else and tell me of how awesome is.

I don't have a problem if you think its awesome, I said so multiple times in my posts (funny you mentioned reading comprehension). But you having a problem with people criticizing - people who've not only read it in huge amounts, but also every other type of manga and then trying some pathetic argument like "oh you only don't like it cos its popular" is the issue I have.

Yes, the people whom think shonen is the greatest thing since slice bread have all not read anything but shonen. You should know this because you've talked to every shonen enjoyer. Correct? Hey, did the idea that maybe does people whom think shonen is the greatest thing since sliced bread just simply enjoy shonen more than other genres of manga? *Shocked gasp comes from Fallschirmjager* I know, I know. Such a hard idea to wrap one's head around, but it does happen. No need to be so bitter about people enjoying something you don't enjoy boyo. I don't have a problem with people criticizing it, I just pointed out the pattern with people I've seen that criticize it, and I'm glad you flew right into my assumption. Always great to find people whom are willing to confirm personal experiences.

But you're clearly the all-knowing and clever one here.

Why thank you! I have the wit of a trickster!

Mission accomplished, your wit is unending.

Indeed.

Never mind the fact that half of what you said specifically applies to you as well.

I'm not the one whom got personal about a post that didn't even mention me even though I don't allegedly fit the idea that post insinuated. Think about that for a good long time. Maybe you'll learn something new.

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the_stegman

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#26  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

Naruto is the only one I care about.

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Fallschirmjager

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@wolverine08: Once again, you're trying to play the ignorance/innocence card. That's fine with me, you clearly think highly of yourself.

If you don't want to be called out, don't post.

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Wolverine008

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@wolverine08: Once again, you're trying to play the ignorance/innocence card. That's fine with me, you clearly think highly of yourself.

If you don't want to be called out, don't post.

LOL. Yes, I shall not post as to not offend dear Fallschirmjager.

Get your head out of the clouds boyo.

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First off, I’d like to thank everyone who replied/posted on this thread. I feel honored that my first thread has achieved so much attention already.

@shenkuei said:

@thechosenlolofgod: How do you rank these anime from best to worst?

  • Hunter X Hunter (best)
  • Naruto
  • One Piece
  • Bleach
  • Toriko
  • Fairy Tail (worst)

I must note that I've only seen like one episode each of Fairy Tale and Toriko so I can't judge them too well.

Do you enjoy shounen anime or manga, likewise? If so or if not, why?

Yeah I enjoy it, although I much prefer seinen type manga. I think I might be too old for shonen at this point. After many years of being a shonen fan I've come to realize that they really are aimed at teenagers. Most shonen wholeheartedly embraces the same painfully cliche themes they've been repeating ad nauseum for decades. On the plus side, the character interaction and development can be interesting. And there's usually a decent amount of humor. But overall the writing is notably shallower and weaker than seinen IMO.

I have no issue with the art style.

When it comes to "popular/mainstream" manga I think they tend to be better than your average shonen manga. I just wish seinen were more popular in the west. Even my second favorite on your list, Naruto, is no better than your average seinen manga IMO. When most people say that they hate anime or aren't into it, they are thinking of shonen. It always irritates me when I hear people say that because they are judging an entire medium based on probably having seen just a few episodes of Naruto or something, if even that that. You can't blame them though, because that's all anyone ever talks about. Shonen manga.

It may seem like I am hating on shonen but I'm not. I have greatly enjoyed them at times. But I just get really tired of people talking about them same half-dozen series non-stop, especially when they're not that good relative to some of the rest of what's out there.

@fallschirmjager said:

Shouen sucks. The whole genre can die afaic. There are RomCom anime that are better than those you just listed.

also this:

@shenkuei said:

When most people say that they hate anime or aren't into it, they are thinking of shonen. It always irritates me when I hear people say that because they are judging an entire medium based on probably having scene just a few episodes of Naruto or something, if even that that. You can't blame them though, because that's all anyone ever talks about. Shonen manga.

I full-heatedly agree with both you guys. I don’t think it completely sucks @Falls but I get your point, there are much more quality manga/anime that can be cherished instead of wasting time on such lengthy pieces of mediocre works just like you and @shenkuei state. (I lol'd at the RomCom part~ ;D)

@wolverine08 said:

I love shonen even with all the b#tching people give it. I've always found the complaints around it picky and honestly a little snobby. Most of the time to me shonen dislike just seems like the tendency people have to just dislike popular things because it's popular. I've just gotten the vibe shonen hate comes from people salty the seinin manga they enjoy just isn't popular.

I understand where you come from Logan, hardcore shonen fans shouldn't be judged for liking what they like!

@fallschirmjager said:

Go watch something like Monster and then try to tell me shonen holds a candle to it from a story telling perspective. It doesn't even compare.

Has nothing to do with being popular. It has to do with shonen fans who think that its the epitome of manga/anime. Fine if you like it, but don't for a second think its better than what it is.

The stories are mediocre - even when good. The protagonist are all extremely similar and cliche, the comedy is not really the funny and extremely predictable. The genre itself is basically (and sorry its this insults you) for kids. The word shonen literally means young-boy. Its about teenagers and its usually targeted for teenagers.

And even the action - the one thing the genre has going for it - is not all that good. Especially in animation. Naruto in particular has some of the most infamous animation fails, its not even funny.

@shenkuei said:

@fallschirmjager: Have you seen HxH?

No interest in the new one. I hate teenage protagonists. With a passion.

I'm pretty picky nowadays. Honestly I would not even watched AoT had the animation quality been so damn good.

And yet again, I agree with everything (-- I didn't like HxH either, the story line and adolescent characters were annoying.)

Although I actually enjoyed the Pain vs. Naruto chunky animations as they proved to be effective for the "heat-of-the-moment" scenes.

Fine if you like, I don't really care, everyone is allowed to like what they want and ultimately its all subjective. But don't insult people who've read/watched hundreds of manga/anime and know how they stack up. Its like watching Transformers and then saying people who don't like it because its a joke compared to Shawkshank Redemption are just hating on its cos its popular.

Well said Falls. :D

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@wardishy said:

I've never watched or read Hunter x Hunter, Toriko, or Fairy Tail.

Bleach, Naruto and One Piece are all anime/manga that I've enjoyed, although they all have their ups and downs. And the genre is certainly very... worn-out, I guess? I don't want to sound like I'm knocking it, because when I was at that age range (14) I loved Bleach etc. Hajime no Ippo was good too. And the humour in shonen can be okay.

My favourite manga not on this list:

- Death Note

- Bakuman

- Full Metal Alchemist

- Monster

- ...it's been a while, I'm drawing a blank. I did like Battle Angel Alita and Guyver too from what I can remember. It was a while ago.

OMG, those are all my favorite anime as well and I read Bakuman, the Death Note creators truly create gems and masterpieces through realistic fiction (not that the Death Note is realistic but it definitely portrays what people would do if they got their hands on high-power).

And shonen is very worn-out, agreed.

@blackwind said:

@fallschirmjager: Not ball shone is bad. Craply shonen like Fairy Tail however is then definition of the badness though.

Immensely bland main character.

Illogical power ups .

Failing to follow up on villain hype.

Ignoring everyone but a few main heroes.

Episodic plot.

Etc.

So very true! :O

@farkam said:

I stopped enjoying modern/mainstream shonen years ago. Sh*t tier storytelling and sh*ttier characters with tired and overdone cliches and tropes. I can enjoy it for nostalgia value though and there are still some shonen series that are special to me, regardless of how sh*tty they are.

Super True! And the nostalgic-special one for me is DBZ.

@shenkuei said:

Wow...people are getting a little aggressive over this...

Yeah. You and Falls made some really great points in this thread, I'm glad I feel the same way about the mainstream aniem genre as you guys. I'm at a stage where I'm old for the mainstream genre, too old in fact.

@the_stegman said:

Naruto is the only one I care about.

Naruto, I would say is the best of all the long-drawn shonen anime out there (not including Gintama, although that's getting old as well..).

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lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

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#32  Edited By BlackWind

I can't believe people are still reading Naruro. Kishimoto's Uchiha faboyism got out of control a while ago with his retcons and doing whatever possible to justify Saucefail's actions like we don't still think he is a villain.

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#33  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@thatguywithheadphones said:

lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

This.

Shonen is awesome if you're reading the right ones. Yeah, yeah, I said it: sue me.

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@thatguywithheadphones said:

lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

This.

Shonen is awesome is you're reading the right ones. Yeah, yeah, I said it: sue me.

It's even more funny, because these people act as if Seinen is the epitome of quality, hell most of the worst mangas I've ever read have been seinen.

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#35  Edited By Wolverine008

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@thatguywithheadphones said:

lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

This.

Shonen is awesome if you're reading the right ones. Yeah, yeah, I said it: sue me.

Felt like I was crazy on here. Lol.

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Sucks,

non mainstream and dark = equals good

ALL THE TIME !!!

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@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@thatguywithheadphones said:

lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

This.

Shonen is awesome is you're reading the right ones. Yeah, yeah, I said it: sue me.

It's even more funny, because these people act as if Seinen is the epitome of quality, hell most of the worst mangas I've ever read have been seinen.

Exactly. I'm not even going to name the amount of sh!tty Seinen I've read in my time. Holy Knight, Freezing, Blush-DC,etc,etc. I could keep naming, but I'm just going to stop there.

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#38  Edited By Pharoh_Atem

@wolverine08 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@thatguywithheadphones said:

lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

This.

Shonen is awesome if you're reading the right ones. Yeah, yeah, I said it: sue me.

Felt like I wad crazy on here. Lol.

LOL.

I can't stand with people are so dogmatic about their opinions and wave it around like it's fact.

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I love shonen even with all the b#tching people give it. I've always found the complaints around it picky and honestly a little snobby. Most of the time to me shonen dislike just seems like the tendency people have to just dislike popular things because it's popular. I've just gotten the vibe shonen hate comes from people salty the seinin manga they enjoy just isn't popular.

Still this.

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A good shonen is Rave Master.

A terrible shonen is Bleach.

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@thatguywithheadphones said:

lol people hating on shonen, last one they read came out 10-15 years ago.

And the mainstream, hardcore shonen take over sales and industry today.

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

Shonen is awesome if you're reading the right ones.

Agreed.

Me too!

@darling_luna said:

Sucks,

non mainstream and dark = equals good

ALL THE TIME !!!

Eh, not all the time for me. Darker Than Black had too many plot holes and lacked action scenes over all and elaborated more on drama so it bored a lot of people to death.

@blackwind said:

A good shonen is Rave Master.

A terrible shonen is Bleach.

Can't agree more. Rave Master was awesome and had potential to surpass what Fairy Tail is today.

@wolverine08 said:

@wolverine08 said:

I love shonen even with all the b#tching people give it. I've always found the complaints around it picky and honestly a little snobby. Most of the time to me shonen dislike just seems like the tendency people have to just dislike popular things because it's popular. I've just gotten the vibe shonen hate comes from people salty the seinin manga they enjoy just isn't popular.

Still this.

There are shonen gems out there Logan, but the ones I listed are more specifically to do with the mainstream-type with 300 + episodes that just plain lack in story/writing due to franchise milking.

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  • Bleach
  • Hunter x Hunter
  • Naruto
  • One Piece
  • Fairy Tail
  • Toriko (I have never actually read it)
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@thechosenlolofgod: Here's the thing

At least 100 million copies[edit]

Manga seriesAuthorPublisherNo. of collected
volumes
SerializedApproximate sales
One PieceEiichiro OdaShueisha731997–present345 million†[1]
Dragon BallAkira ToriyamaShueisha421984–1995230 million[2]
Golgo 13Takao SaitoShogakukan1711969–present200 million[3]
Black JackOsamu TezukaAkita Shoten171973–1983176 million†[4]
Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Kōen-mae HashutsujoOsamu AkimotoShueisha1881976–present155.3 million†[4]
Detective ConanGosho AoyamaShogakukan811994–present140 million[5]
NarutoMasashi KishimotoShueisha671999–present135 million†[4]
OishinboTetsu Kariya and Akira HanasakiShogakukan1101983–present130 million[6]
Slam DunkTakehiko InoueShueisha311990–1996120 million[7]
Astro BoyOsamu TezukaKobunsha/Kodansha231952–1968100 million[8]
DoraemonFujiko FujioShogakukan451969–1996100 million[9]
Hokuto no KenBuronson and Tetsuo HaraShueisha271983–1988100 million[10]
TouchMitsuru AdachiShogakukan261981–1986100 million[11]

Of the most series ever sold, only about 2 of those main stream manga's you've mentions. Hell the 3rd most sold manga is a seinen. Hell Bleach and Vagabond share about the same amount of sale. So it ins't as one sided as you think.

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#44  Edited By BlackWind

Most casual fans are so stuck on DBZ, Nardo, Chlorox and Fairy Tail they have no idea what else is out there. Even excluding the better shonens.

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@thatguywithheadphones: I never said it was one-sided, just saying. Not only that but there are other mainstream shonen apart from my list like Slam Dunk, Dragon Ball, even Astro Boy and more of which I haven't watched. The fact remains that more otakus are attracted to mainstream shonen because it appeals to a largeraudience. And if you extend the list more, more from my list and other mainstreams will pop up. No surprise there of course.

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@thechosenlolofgod: I dig shounen. It has its faults and its detractors but its like any other comic, outside of the younger starting age of most of the protagonist.

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@jphu8414 said:

  • Bleach
  • Hunter x Hunter
  • Naruto
  • One Piece
  • Fairy Tail
  • Toriko (I have never actually read it)

That's a first!

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@boschepg said:

@thechosenlolofgod: I dig shounen. It has its faults and its detractors but its like any other comic, outside of the younger starting age of most of the protagonist.

That's fair, I'd probably say that's kinda' how I feel about it too.

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I've never seen/ready any of them. And I don't really plan on it.

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@thatguywithheadphones: I never said it was one-sided, just saying. Not only that but there are other mainstream shonen apart from my list like Slam Dunk, Dragon Ball, even Astro Boy and more of which I haven't watched. The fact remains that more otakus are attracted to mainstream shonen because it appeals to a large audience. And if you extend the list more, more from my list and other mainstreams will pop up.

Yeah, but they'll still be precedded by other non mainstream manga.

Between 50 million and 100 million copies[edit]

Manga seriesAuthorPublisherNo. of collected
volumes
SerializedApproximate sales
Hajime no IppoGeorge MorikawaKodansha1051989–present94 million[12]
Kindaichi Case FilesYōzaburō Kanari, Seimaru Amagi andFumiya SatōKodansha641992–present90 million[13]
Sazae-sanMachiko HasegawaKodansha451946–197486 million[14]
BleachTite KuboShueisha612001–present82 million[7]
VagabondTakehiko InoueKodansha361998–present82 million[15]
Captain TsubasaYōichi TakahashiShueisha901981–present80 million[note 1][16][17]
JoJo's Bizarre AdventureHirohiko ArakiShueisha1101986–present80 million[18]
Rurouni KenshinNobuhiro WatsukiShueisha281994–199970 million†[4]
SangokushiMitsuteru YokoyamaUshio Shuppansha601971–198670 million[19]
KinnikumanYudetamagoShueisha451979–present66 million[20]
Hunter × HunterYoshihiro TogashiShueisha321998–present65 million[7]
Fullmetal AlchemistHiromu ArakawaEnix/Square Enix272001–201061 million[21]
Hana Yori DangoYoko KamioShueisha371992–200360 million[22]
Rokudenashi BluesMasanori MoritaShueisha421988–199760 million[23]
Shoot!Tsukasa OoshimaKodansha331990–200360 million[22]
Bad BoysHiroshi TanakaShōnen Gahōsha221988–199655 million†[24]
H2Mitsuru AdachiShogakukan341992–199955 million[22]
Minami no TeiōDai Tennōji and Rikiya GōNihon Bungeisha1231992–present53 million[25]
The Prince of TennisTakeshi KonomiShueisha421999–200851 million[26]
Dragon Quest: Dai no DaibōkenRiku Sanjo, Yuji Horii and Koji InadaShueisha371989–199650 million[22]
Glass MaskSuzue MiuchiHakusensha491976–present50 million[27]
Grappler BakiKeisuke ItagakiAkita Shoten1101991–201250 million[note 2][28]
Great Teacher OnizukaTooru FujisawaKodansha251997–200250 million[29]
MajorTakuya MitsudaShogakukan781994–201050 million[30]
Ranma ½Rumiko TakahashiShogakukan381987–199650 million[31]
RookiesMasanori MoritaShueisha241998–200350 million[32]
YuYu HakushoYoshihiro TogashiShueisha191990–199450 million[7]

Between 30 million and 50 million copies[edit]

Manga seriesAuthorPublisherNo. of collected
volumes
SerializedApproximate sales
DokabenShinji MizushimaAkita Shoten1811972–198148 million†[24]
Initial DShuichi ShigenoKodansha481995–201348 million[33]
CrowsHiroshi TakahashiAkita Shoten261990–199846 million[34]
InuYashaRumiko TakahashiShogakukan561998–200845 million[35]
GintamaHideaki SorachiShueisha512003–present44 million[36]
Shizukanaru DonTatsuo NittaJitsugyo no Nihon Sha1081988–201344 million[15]
NanaAi YazawaShueisha212000–2009 (on hiatus)43 million[37]
Crayon Shin-chanYoshito UsuiFutabasha501990–201043 million[22]
Be-Bop High SchoolKazuhiro KiuchiKodansha481983–200340 million[38]
City HunterTsukasa HojoShueisha351985–199140 million[39]
Kachō Kōsaku ShimaKenshi HirokaneKodansha721983–present40 million[note 3][40]
Kyō Kara Ore Wa!!Hiroyuki NishimoriShogakukan381988–199740 million[41]
Tsurikichi SanpeiTakao YaguchiKodansha651973–198340 million[42]
Yu-Gi-Oh!Kazuki TakahashiShueisha361996–200440 million†[24]
Shingeki no KyojinHajime IsayamaKodansha132009–present38.3 million†[43]
20th Century BoysNaoki UrasawaShogakukan221999–200636 million†[24]
Ōke no MonshōChieko HosokawaAkita Shoten581976–present36 million[22]
Dr. SlumpAkira ToriyamaShueisha181980–198435 million†[44]
Nodame CantabileTomoko NinomiyaKodansha232001–200932 million[45]
BerserkKentaro MiuraHakusensha371990–present31 million[46]
Chibi Maruko-chanMomoko SakuraShueisha161986–200931 million†[47]
Bastard‼Kazushi HagiwaraShueisha271988–present30 million†[44]
ChameleonAtsushi KaseKodansha471990–199930 million[48]
CobraBuichi TerasawaShueisha181978–198430 million[49]
Gaki DekaTatsuhiko YamagamiAkita Shoten261974–198030 million[50]
Salaryman KintarōHiroshi MotomiyaShueisha301994–200230 million[51]
Urusei YatsuraRumiko TakahashiShogakukan341978–198730 million†[24]

Between 20 million and 30 million copies[edit]

Manga seriesAuthorPublisherNo. of collected
volumes
SerializedApproximate sales
Hayate Densetsu Tokkō no TakuHiroto Saki and Jūzō TokoroKodansha271991–199729 million†[24]
Tokimeki TonightKoi IkenoShueisha301982–199428 million†[24]
WorstHiroshi TakahashiAkita Shoten312002–201328 million[52]
Itazura na KissKaoru TadaShueisha231990–199927 million†[24]
Kuroko no BasukeTadatoshi FujimakiShueisha262008–present27 million†[53]
Yūkan ClubYukari IchijoShueisha191982–200227 million[22]
Asari-chanMayumi MuroyamaShogakukan991978–present26.5 million†[47]
Death NoteTsugumi Ohba and Takeshi ObataShueisha122003–200626.5 million†[44]
Katekyō Hitman Reborn!Akira AmanoShueisha422004–201226.5 million[54]
Ushio and ToraKazuhiro FujitaShogakukan331990–199626.4 million†[24]
Baribari LegendShuichi ShigenoKodansha381983–199126 million†[24]
Sakigake!! OtokojukuAkira MiyashitaShueisha341985–199126 million†[44]
Shaman KingHiroyuki TakeiShueisha321998–200426 million[55]
Saint SeiyaMasami KurumadaShueisha281986–199025.3 million†[24]
Boys Be...Masahiro Itabashi and Hiroyuki TamakoshiKodansha321991–199725 million†[24]
Fairy TailHiro MashimaKodansha402006–present25 million[56]
Hikaru no GoYumi Hotta and Takeshi ObataShueisha231998–200325 million[57]
Maison IkkokuRumiko TakahashiShogakukan151980–198725 million[58]
MiyukiMitsuru AdachiShogakukan121980–198425 million[59]
Seito Shokun!Yoko ShojiKodansha341977–present25 million[note 4][60]
Tsuribaka NisshiJūzō Yamasaki and Kenichi KitamiShogakukan881979–present25 million[61]
Futari EcchiKatsu AkiHakusensha601997–present24 million[62]
Cooking PapaTochi UeyamaKodansha1251985–present23 million[63]
Abu-sanShinji MizushimaShogakukan1041973–present22 million[64]
Patalliro!Mineo MayaHakusensha911979–present22 million†[47]
Konjiki no Gash!!Makoto RaikuShogakukan332001–200722 million[65]
Dōbutsu no Oisha-sanNoriko SasakiHakusensha121987–199321.6 million†[24]
Eyeshield 21Riichiro Inagaki and Yusuke MurataShueisha372002–200921.6 million[24]
Aa! Megami-samaKōsuke FujishimaKodansha461988–present20 million[66]
Ashita no JoeIkki Kajiwara and Tetsuya ChibaKodansha201968–197320 million[67]
GantzHiroya OkuShueisha372000–201320 million[68]
Ginga Legend WeedYoshihiro TakahashiNihon Bungeisha851999–present20 million[note 5][69]
Jigoku Sensei NūbēShō Makura and Takeshi OkanoShueisha311993–199920 million†[44]
Kimagure Orange RoadIzumi MatsumotoShueisha181984–198720 million†[44]
Kimi ni TodokeKaruho ShiinaShueisha192005–present20 million†[70]
Magical Teacher Negima!Ken AkamatsuKodansha382003–201220 million[71]
MonsterNaoki UrasawaShogakukan181994–201120 million[72]
The Rose of VersaillesRiyoko IkedaShueisha101972–197320 million[22]
Shura no MonMasatoshi KawaharaKodansha311987–199620 million[73]
Sukeban DekaShinji WadaHakusensha221976–198220 million[74]
Tobaku Mokushiroku KaijiNobuyuki FukumotoKodansha491996–200920 million[note 6][75]
Tokyo Daigaku MonogatariTatsuya EgawaShogakukan341992–200120 million[76]
Tsubasa: Reservoir ChronicleClampKodansha282003–200920 million[77]

This also brings up a question. What do you define as "mainstream"? I mean FT on your list but 20 Century Boys has made double that. Is it mainstream?