#101 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#102 Edited by Teerack (5851 posts) - - Show Bio

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

#103 Edited by dngn4774 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio

@ellie_knightfall: I'm just saying that women in general should recognize that skimpy outfits can send the wrong signals to guys who are well for lack of a better word, a**holes. If you honestly think those people are going to go away with our without the no consent signs your being delusional. Our species will always be filled with filthy and disgusting creatures, a PSA isn't going to change that.

#104 Edited by dngn4774 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

I want to dress like a cop at the next con but get insulted when cosplay girls demand that I arrest gropers.

#106 Posted by dngn4774 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio
#107 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@judasnixon: well "everything possible" opens up a bunch of potentially unfortunate ideals

#108 Posted by judasnixon (6511 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: Male... No hate on this subject. I'll buy you a real real drink. Hope you are a rum drinker...... %$# a snow cone.....

#109 Posted by Akindoodle (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: are you some sort of mysoginist trying to cover up female issues by claiming such while poorly disguised as a female?

or does that just seem like rational and moral thinking to you?

@judasnixon: cheers?

I'm not a girl?!... I must have had the wrong bits for a long while now...

Haha. But really I am. I was actually about to come post a disclaimer after thinking about what I said

DISCLAIMER: My views do not represent HALF the population of the globe that is comprised of women of many different situations, backgrounds and upbringings. They're JUST MINE

I'm sorry if I offended you but never assume that one person speaks for an entire demographic. I'm a generally laid back person and again, my views are MINE (I know, despite the fact I used "we"). I really was only kidding and assumed my language indicated that (Note to Self: must be clearer when speaking to nerds or on nerd websites. They do not understand literary devices... there I go again. Sorry if you do. Not insulting anyone's intelligence) There needs to be a humour indicator or something on this site. I hate repetitive use of "LOL"

Yup, there goes my logical and intelligent streak of the day. What must I have been thinking?! I usually have my faculties about me when I'm not up doing economics homework at 5 a.m

#110 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

Why can't a woman wear whatever she wants to, or a man for that matter? If a man walked around in short shorts and a muscle tee is he worried about being molested? Raped? I doubt it. Yet if a woman wears a tank top and a skirt above her knees she is obviously asking for attention and if she gets groped it is obviously her fault and not the person who groped her, because she should have known better. Instead of telling f__king rapist that there is never an excuse to violate, molest or sexually assault a person.

Regardless of what a person wears they deserve respect.

#111 Edited by judasnixon (6511 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774: Look man I will not talk with you, please do not talk to me........

#112 Edited by dngn4774 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio

@blood1991: Dude perverts exists whether we like it or not. We can pretend like every ones going to treat each other with respect but that isn't always the case and we should prepare for when that happens and work our way from there.

#113 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: I don't know mate, your satire still suggests you hold the opiion that a man has to be ambitious with a lady, unless the ldady would not wish it so

#114 Posted by Teerack (5851 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

Why can't a woman wear whatever she wants to, or a man for that matter? If a man walked around in short shorts and a muscle tee is he worried about being molested? Raped? I doubt it. Yet if a woman wears a tank top and a skirt above her knees she is obviously asking for attention and if she gets groped it is obviously her fault and not the person who groped her, because she should have known better. Instead of telling f__king rapist that there is never an excuse to violate, molest or sexually assault a person.

Regardless of what a person wears they deserve respect.

That's a very after school special way of looking at it. Women AND Men are treated differently depending on how they present themselves. What you're suggesting could only really be possibly if our culture devolved a bit; it's just how humans have evolved as a civilization. I'm not saying discrimination should be allowed, but people will act differently towards you depending on how you present yourself it's imprinted in the way humans think.

I'm not pro rape by the way if that wasn't clear xD

#115 Edited by Ellie_Knightfall (4818 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774 said:

@ellie_knightfall: I'm just saying that women in general should recognize that skimpy outfits can send the wrong signals to guys who are well for lack of a better word, a**holes. If you honestly think those people are going to go away with our without the no consent signs your being delusional. Our species will always be filled with filthy and disgusting creatures, a PSA isn't going to change that.

The entire point of the PSA campaign is to shed light on what happens at Cons, which it has and get people talking about it, which again, it has. Nobody's saying that this is going to eradicate it, but it lets people know that first of all, it's something to look out for and second of all, it allows people the audience and platform to speak about their own experiences. It's better than staying silent, no? Nothing gets changed sitting back and doing nothing. If this changes just a modicum of the culture, or prevents just one sexual harassment, or gives one girl the courage to step up and report something that happened to her, then it's been successful, if only minutely.

I'm not 'delusional' I don't pull wool over my eyes, cover my ears and pretend there's not a problem - or that there are no apparent dangers, I'm painfully aware that there are and my point wasn't that there weren't.. But what I said was that I think it's ridiculous that the burden of blame is put on the victims. That's never okay. And a culture that perpetuates the line of thought that it was her fault, or she was asking for it because she was dressed a certain way is something that's incredibly problematic. It's even worse when they paint the rapist in a sympathetic light. THAT was my point.

#116 Posted by Akindoodle (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: I don't know mate, your satire still suggests you hold the opiion that a man has to be ambitious with a lady, unless the ldady would not wish it so

Hold on a sec. What? My brain's hyped up on coffee. I do not believe I understand your post

#117 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: sorry, I'm working with a really bad computer, and changing something afetr aI have already typed t i almost impossible

basically I'm saaying that under such a system of romantic trial and error, its almost impossible for a gentleman to knwo what is and is not desired by a lady

#118 Edited by dngn4774 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

@blood1991 said:

@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

Why can't a woman wear whatever she wants to, or a man for that matter? If a man walked around in short shorts and a muscle tee is he worried about being molested? Raped? I doubt it. Yet if a woman wears a tank top and a skirt above her knees she is obviously asking for attention and if she gets groped it is obviously her fault and not the person who groped her, because she should have known better. Instead of telling f__king rapist that there is never an excuse to violate, molest or sexually assault a person.

Regardless of what a person wears they deserve respect.

That's a very after school special way of looking at it. Women AND Men are treated differently depending on how they present themselves. What you're suggesting could only really be possibly if our culture devolved a bit; it's just how humans have evolved as a civilization. I'm not saying discrimination should be allowed, but people will act differently towards you depending on how you present yourself it's imprinted in the way humans think.

I'm not pro rape by the way if that wasn't clear xD

Sad but true.

#119 Edited by Akindoodle (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: Ah, I see. I don't want to get into the philosophy of it but isn't romance really trial and error though? I mean unless the guy is bloody flipping obvious about it, I couldn't really tell if he liked me or not from afar. One of us would have to suck it up and reach out. So in reality, it's not just the "gentleman" that doesn't know what the other wants. We are I am not a mind reader. You'd need to try to see if you'd fail... that sounded REALLY poetic (if I do say so myself)

#120 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: in your opinion, are ladies "allowed" in a social sense to be openly ambitious in their pursuit of a gentkeman?

and as a bit of a follow-up, should they be "allowed"

#121 Posted by Akindoodle (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: in your opinion, are ladies "allowed" in a social sense to be openly ambitious in their pursuit of a gentkeman?

and as a bit of a follow-up, should they be "allowed"

Some women will say that throwing yourself at a man is unladylike. Indecent. Depends on your definition of "throwing yourself". Stripping for him or actually physically lunging at him is stupid. Flirting with him in front of (or even behind) his girlfriend is just mean. But I'm part of this radically new group of girls who think it's okay to ask a guy you like out. I see nothing wrong with openly going after a guy. Hell, I have friends who call dibs on guys like some guys do on girls. So yes, they should be "allowed". Who would stop us, etiquette teachers?

I get this old-fashioned gent vibe from you for some reason

#122 Posted by dngn4774 (3021 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1 said:

@akindoodle: in your opinion, are ladies "allowed" in a social sense to be openly ambitious in their pursuit of a gentkeman?

and as a bit of a follow-up, should they be "allowed"

Some women will say that throwing yourself at a man is unladylike. Indecent. Depends on your definition of "throwing yourself". Stripping for him or actually physically lunging at him is stupid. Flirting with him in front of (or even behind) his girlfriend is just mean. But I'm part of this radically new group of girls who think it's okay to ask a guy you like out. I see nothing wrong with openly going after a guy. Hell, I have friends who call dibs on guys like some guys do on girls. So yes, they should be "allowed". Who would stop us, etiquette teachers?

I get this old-fashioned gent vibe from you for some reason

I don't see why anyone would have an issue with that if both parties are single consenting adults. IMO it seems like it saves a lot of time when the woman makes the first move.

#123 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@akindoodle: old-fashioned gent? I can tell you that I use termsterms like "lady" or "gentleman" becasue essentially no one gets offended by them beleive me, I like the idea of a romantically ambitious lady, and I think its a small tragedy if blindly obeying gender roles stops a romance from taking place.

#124 Edited by Akindoodle (1015 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774: It saves a HUGE amount of time. All the guys I know dilly-dallied (yes, it's a real word that I use in conversation) for months, even years without asking me and by the time they did, I'd raised my standards. I now know you can't really go wrong with an invite to coffee (unless of course, the person in question is allergic to caffeine. Is that even possible?). Though to be honest I'm barely an adult. Hell, I'm a kid. So not much experience on this, still coming into my own people. But I like to think I'm getting there

@betatesthighlander1: True that and it's a very safe route to take in referring to people (must take notes on that). Ambitious women FTW!

#125 Posted by Tacos_Kickass (844 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think girls should walk around like that in a place full with tons of creepy dudes, but even though they choose to do that it doesn't mean they deserve to get harassed.

Come on guys this isn't India, respect the women folk and you might gain a friend and not get slapped.

#126 Edited by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio

@jorgevy said:

wow awesome! this is really cool, and more people should be aware to be careful with cosplayers, it's not an excuse for stuff...

but on another note

Yelling I'd bang you is not a compliment? wooow..... This is awkward

If girls yelled that at me I'd be okay with that :P

#127 Posted by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio
#128 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft:

I'm sorry?

your welcome?

thank you?

how dare you?

#129 Posted by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio
#130 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft: Well I'll say you shackleworthy simpelton, I've never been so offended in the entirety ofmy immortals soul's existence whithin this particular sphere of creation.

#131 Posted by Leon_Dissada (4389 posts) - - Show Bio

why does it matter? its like dress up for nerds...

#132 Posted by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774 said:

@blood1991: Dude perverts exists whether we like it or not. We can pretend like every ones going to treat each other with respect but that isn't always the case and we should prepare for when that happens and work our way from there.

Agreed, guys can't help being perverts, but most know to keep there keeps to themselves.

I think if a girls cosplay is too revealing, they should be escorted out. You can't just go to places half dressed, they want the attention. Heck when I go jogging I take off my shirt to get attention, not to cool off.

Flirting is one thing, but touching a girl that isn't interested? I don't see nerds doing this often at conventions.

#133 Posted by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio
#134 Edited by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774 said:

@blood1991: Dude perverts exists whether we like it or not. We can pretend like every ones going to treat each other with respect but that isn't always the case and we should prepare for when that happens and work our way from there.

It isn't about pretending these people exist of course they exist, but slut shamming a woman or scaring her into wearing a freaking chastity belt isn't how we solve this problem. Instead of telling women what to wear maybe, just maybe we should emphasize NOT sexually assaulting people. When I was in High School it was never even discussed and I know men today who think it is f__king ok to have sex with a woman who is black out drunk. They don't consider that rape. Why aren't we teaching kids what sexual assault, rape, molestation and other sexual misconduct imply and we as a society need to make the consequences of these actions more severe.

@teerack said:

@blood1991 said:

@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

Why can't a woman wear whatever she wants to, or a man for that matter? If a man walked around in short shorts and a muscle tee is he worried about being molested? Raped? I doubt it. Yet if a woman wears a tank top and a skirt above her knees she is obviously asking for attention and if she gets groped it is obviously her fault and not the person who groped her, because she should have known better. Instead of telling f__king rapist that there is never an excuse to violate, molest or sexually assault a person.

Regardless of what a person wears they deserve respect.

That's a very after school special way of looking at it. Women AND Men are treated differently depending on how they present themselves. What you're suggesting could only really be possibly if our culture devolved a bit; it's just how humans have evolved as a civilization. I'm not saying discrimination should be allowed, but people will act differently towards you depending on how you present yourself it's imprinted in the way humans think.

I'm not pro rape by the way if that wasn't clear xD

How are we supposed to develop when we aren't even trying too? Saying "that's just the way it is" is just accepting it, and we shouldn't accept it. When something is wrong you address that it is wrong. Calling the Starfire cosplayer a slut who has to take responsibility for if she gets groped is wrong and that takes all personal responsibly from any and all persons who feel that they have the right to sexually assault her. What words like slut and whore do is dehumanize women. It somehow makes what they are doing ok, because she is no longer a person.

So instead of saying society need to progress I choose to progress and in the near future I hope society catches up.

#135 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@dngn4774 said:

@blood1991: Dude perverts exists whether we like it or not. We can pretend like every ones going to treat each other with respect but that isn't always the case and we should prepare for when that happens and work our way from there.

Agreed, guys can't help being perverts, but most know to keep there keeps to themselves.

I think if a girls cosplay is too revealing, they should be escorted out. You can't just go to places half dressed, they want the attention. Heck when I go jogging I take off my shirt to get attention, not to cool off.

Flirting is one thing, but touching a girl that isn't interested? I don't see nerds doing this often at conventions.

Guys can't help being perverted?! So a naked woman is standing in front of a man and well he's a guy so of course he's going to touch. He's a man after all he has needs, oh she doesn't want to consent? Than why is this whore naked in front of me? She must be teasing,. No means yes after all. See where I'm going with this?

Instead of making her leave maybe oggles and mr. touchy should be escorted out instead.

Need another example. Lets say you take off your shirt and another jogger grabs you and says he likes what he sees. Guess you got your attention huh and I mean he's a guy he can't control himself so shame on you for tempting him like that.

#136 Posted by RumbleMan_Exe (1543 posts) - - Show Bio

Let them dress the way they want, since I don't want this sh!t to carry over to the comics where they have to tone down the fanservice. Think of the fictional women!!!

#137 Posted by Teerack (5851 posts) - - Show Bio

@dngn4774 said:

@blood1991: Dude perverts exists whether we like it or not. We can pretend like every ones going to treat each other with respect but that isn't always the case and we should prepare for when that happens and work our way from there.

It isn't about pretending these people exist of course they exist, but slut shamming a woman or scaring her into wearing a freaking chastity belt isn't how we solve this problem. Instead of telling women what to wear maybe, just maybe we should emphasize NOT sexually assaulting people. When I was in High School it was never even discussed and I know men today who think it is f__king ok to have sex with a woman who is black out drunk. They don't consider that rape. Why aren't we teaching kids what sexual assault, rape, molestation and other sexual misconduct imply and we as a society need to make the consequences of these actions more severe.

@teerack said:

@blood1991 said:

@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

Why can't a woman wear whatever she wants to, or a man for that matter? If a man walked around in short shorts and a muscle tee is he worried about being molested? Raped? I doubt it. Yet if a woman wears a tank top and a skirt above her knees she is obviously asking for attention and if she gets groped it is obviously her fault and not the person who groped her, because she should have known better. Instead of telling f__king rapist that there is never an excuse to violate, molest or sexually assault a person.

Regardless of what a person wears they deserve respect.

That's a very after school special way of looking at it. Women AND Men are treated differently depending on how they present themselves. What you're suggesting could only really be possibly if our culture devolved a bit; it's just how humans have evolved as a civilization. I'm not saying discrimination should be allowed, but people will act differently towards you depending on how you present yourself it's imprinted in the way humans think.

I'm not pro rape by the way if that wasn't clear xD

How are we supposed to develop when we aren't even trying too? Saying "that's just the way it is" is just accepting it, and we shouldn't accept it. When something is wrong you address that it is wrong. Calling the Starfire cosplayer a slut who has to take responsibility for if she gets groped is wrong and that takes all personal responsibly from any and all persons who feel that they have the right to sexually assault her. What words like slut and whore do is dehumanize women. It somehow makes what they are doing ok, because she is no longer a person.

So instead of saying society need to progress I choose to progress and in the near future I hope society catches up.

Fictional characters that dress slutty dress slutty because... wait for it.....they aren't people. They're fictional characters, and if you like a character that dresses slutty, and you want to dress like her then guess what? It comes down to how much you respect your body and what you consider to be modest. If you're someone who is going to dress like this.

And then get upset about being objectified? The girls that dress slutty are the ones putting themselves out there, and objectifying themselves for everyone. Taking the same logic applying from what you're saying, a person should be able to walk down the street dressed as Hitler and people shouldn't treat him differently or get offended by it, and before you say these girls aren't hurting anyone I know a lot of women that would get offended by some of the trashy outfits girls wear to cosplay, maybe a few guys, but that's besides the point.

I don't think any smart person is going to claim that "oh a girl dressing slutty is a get out of jail free card when it comes to rape." and it's not okay to grope anyone, but actually trying to claim that the girl isn't at any fault for this is despicably irresponsible for social reasons. If society didn't frown a pone girl's dressing themselves up as sex objects then everyone would do it, and I don't know about you but the thought of that would is actually very vulgar and disgusting to me. What you're suggesting is the exact opposite of progression.

#138 Edited by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio


@ccraft

Agreed, guys can't help being perverts, but most know to keep there keeps to themselves.

I think if a girls cosplay is too revealing, they should be escorted out. You can't just go to places half dressed, they want the attention. Heck when I go jogging I take off my shirt to get attention, not to cool off.

Flirting is one thing, but touching a girl that isn't interested? I don't see nerds doing this often at conventions.

Guys can't help being perverted?! So a naked woman is standing in front of a man and well he's a guy so of course he's going to touch. He's a man after all he has needs, oh she doesn't want to consent? Than why is this whore naked in front of me? She must be teasing,. No means yes after all. See where I'm going with this?

Instead of making her leave maybe oggles and mr. touchy should be escorted out instead.

Need another example. Lets say you take off your shirt and another jogger grabs you and says he likes what he sees. Guess you got your attention huh and I mean he's a guy he can't control himself so shame on you for tempting him like that.

lol and you got all that to say from one sentence. "Agreed, guys can't help being perverts, but most know to keep there hands to themselves."

I'm just stating the obvious no more than your are stating ignorant random scenarios. I made my point though, no need to go more in depth.

#139 Edited by ccraft (5209 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:

Fictional characters that dress slutty dress slutty because... wait for it.....they aren't people. They're fictional characters, and if you like a character that dresses slutty, and you want to dress like her then guess what? It comes down to how much you respect your body and what you consider to be modest. If you're someone who is going to dress like this.

And then get upset about being objectified? The girls that dress slutty are the ones putting themselves out there, and objectifying themselves for everyone. Taking the same logic applying from what you're saying, a person should be able to walk down the street dressed as Hitler and people shouldn't treat him differently or get offended by it, and before you say these girls aren't hurting anyone I know a lot of women that would get offended by some of the trashy outfits girls wear to cosplay, maybe a few guys, but that's besides the point.

I don't think any smart person is going to claim that "oh a girl dressing slutty is a get out of jail free card when it comes to rape." and it's not okay to grope anyone, but actually trying to claim that the girl isn't at any fault for this is despicably irresponsible for social reasons. If society didn't frown a pone girl's dressing themselves up as sex objects then everyone would do it, and I don't know about you but the thought of that would is actually very vulgar and disgusting to me. What you're suggesting is the exact opposite of progression.

I mean come on shes pretty much wearing a bra and a skirt, shes not a fan of Pikachu, shes a fan of attention. So I agree with you! And her skirt is pulled down super low! Geez, I'm guessing no underwear!

#140 Edited by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84678 posts) - - Show Bio
@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

I wanna act like a troll but then get upset when I get banned like one. #troll logic

Moderator
#141 Posted by Teerack (5851 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler said:
@teerack said:

I want to dress like a slut, but get offended when i'm treated like a slut. #women's logic.

I wanna act like a troll but then get upset when I get banned like one. #troll logic

Not trolling.

#142 Posted by SC (12977 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay so what we have here are arguments from ignorance and personal incredulity. I don't go to cons, and if I did it wouldn't be all of them, by virtue of that I don't know the extent of how prevalent sexual or physical harassment at cons are, maybe there is merit to an argument that an awareness campaign on the subject may "overestimating" the extent of the problem, but as a reference point I am aware of how prevalent sexual and physical harassment and violence are in reality and most western countries, but there we do know that statistically people tend to underestimate how much it occurs and by people I mean a large majority, the extent of which even those who think that the topic of sexual violence and incident is underrepresented and underestimated are still underestimating how much it happens. So as far as awareness campaigns and resources for education and prevention? Probably not a bad thing if people are overestimating as opposed to underestimating.

Arguing the status quo? Yeah thats great and easy, woman and men should no better should they? They should be aware should they? Men are just like that aren't they? Perverts? Helpless to staring and touching round things like basketballs and breasts? Can't have life without some ahole or a flock of aholes running around huh? Odin's beard what stunning revelations coupled with cynical idiosyncratic understandings of fellow persons. The ability to identify a persons arguments points is a pretty great thing, so as someone who is already aware that that people don't exist in a vacuum and a persons actions inherently play a part in what can happen to them, its quite strange to hear when people try to claim that "woman" should be aware of how they address to avoid certain situations. Reality is a bit more complicated than that because people have rights and those rights should be safeguarded and enforced as best as possible. Its akin to telling people whose family and friends get injured in car crashes that we know there are bad drivers and there are accidents with cars that cause death, and that maybe drivers should be more aware of... seriously? One in three woman in the United States will be a victim of some type of sexual assault in her life time, if anyone knows what "could" happen its woman, since experience is one of the best ways for people to you know? Know stuff. So as good intentioned as telling dem sluts not to dress like sluts are, its not helpful, its not funny, its not ironically hip, its stupid. Even telling them that dressing a certain way may invite danger because of common sense, even if well intentioned, can be a headache because common sense is common stupid. Sexual assault and rape for example are two very very different things, both deal with the perpetrators impulse control, but rape is about power and we know factually things like clothes or setting have little to no factor at all, majority of rapes occur in homes, by people who know the victim and the rapists find it hard to actually remember clothing, but still your going to find plenty of misinformed people who think its the way people dress that plays a large role in rape.

Similarly there are probably similar factors involved with inappropriate actions, gestures and behavior going on at comic cons. Peer pressure, impulse control, the psychology of power, you end up having people who think they are entitled and have the right to treat other people in disgusting and stupid ways and gender definitely plays a role. It plays a role in multiple ways that make victims out of men and woman, because it suggests that all males are perverts with no self control, and that woman are dressing a certain way for attention and that even if they are dressing a certain way for attention, that is invitation for more. Based on? Based on the subjective understandings and experiences on people which many strange and weird things will be going on within but stand to reason should not be a deterrent to people living life. We don't all just stay home even though it would help prevent car accidents, work place accidents. We don't stop drawing money out of a bank because we might get robbed or shot in a bank robbery. Hell homes are dangerous too, we don't nor should we spend time in our panic room because of what could happen, or because there might be creepy guys and creepy girls at a comic con. Their are risks, a lot of people have a good idea of these risks, and yes above I made a should argument so that is to say I know what should isn't actually in play right now.

Which means that people are trying to change the status quo so the should is in play, and ironically enough, we actually do know how change occurs, and awareness and education is a big step for fixing and bettering the behavior in multiple contexts. So again this idea that people should just accept what is is what is, is kind of naive. Its actually relatively easy to help people learn better impulse control, if you can actually identify the causes behind, and everyone could benefit by better education and awareness. The main problems are usually more to do with willingness and ego. The ego involved with overestimation/underestimation and attributing causes and reasons behind actions and incidents inaccurately, which these kinds of threads seem to just enforce. Don't be common with your sense, be science! Okay rant over. This post was brought to you by Science for Pres!

Moderator
#143 Edited by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84678 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack: That comment surely was.

I also like how you took a picture of a "professional Cosplay girl" who gets paid to dress provocatively in order to pad your argument. I would suggest actually going to 16 Bit Siren.com and reading the actual article. It has nothing to do with women thinking they can run around in what amounts to a bra and panties without garnering attention. Well written ignorance is still ignorance.

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#144 Edited by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio

@ellie_knightfall: @sc: @blood1991: I agree with all three of you. And frankly, what you said should be common sense that even the biggest simpleton should understand. And it still amazes me, though not surprise unfortunately, that so many people can't grasp this simple concept. I guess it goes to show how much educating there is still left to do in the world.

#145 Posted by SC (12977 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@teerack said:

Fictional characters that dress slutty dress slutty because... wait for it.....they aren't people. They're fictional characters, and if you like a character that dresses slutty, and you want to dress like her then guess what? It comes down to how much you respect your body and what you consider to be modest. If you're someone who is going to dress like this.

And then get upset about being objectified? The girls that dress slutty are the ones putting themselves out there, and objectifying themselves for everyone. Taking the same logic applying from what you're saying, a person should be able to walk down the street dressed as Hitler and people shouldn't treat him differently or get offended by it, and before you say these girls aren't hurting anyone I know a lot of women that would get offended by some of the trashy outfits girls wear to cosplay, maybe a few guys, but that's besides the point.

I don't think any smart person is going to claim that "oh a girl dressing slutty is a get out of jail free card when it comes to rape." and it's not okay to grope anyone, but actually trying to claim that the girl isn't at any fault for this is despicably irresponsible for social reasons. If society didn't frown a pone girl's dressing themselves up as sex objects then everyone would do it, and I don't know about you but the thought of that would is actually very vulgar and disgusting to me. What you're suggesting is the exact opposite of progression.

I mean come on shes pretty much wearing a bra and a skirt, shes not a fan of Pikachu, shes a fan of attention. So I agree with you! And her skirt is pulled down super low! Geez, I'm guessing no underwear!

Fan of attention =/= fan of being treated as less than human.

Okay with being stared at and being stared at in real life even when wearing jeans and a loose fitting top because people (guys and girls, and yes girls, its statistically proven, and no not to do with lesbianism) =/= okay at having 3 or 4 guys follow you around from a distance taking photos at you, from various angles and then hugging you for the lulz.

Okay with being sexy and perceived as sexy =/= being sexually groped.

Its these small little things you know? I am not saying that you are saying the bad angles above are okay, I am saying that there are differences between the two and you and me may be able to spot them some people actually can't and need to be educated and made aware of this.

The word "slutty" is also a really objective word, so using it to convey a point seems systematic of a person who is unaware of a life outside their own experiences because its such a watery and vague word, and sort of reminds me of the point I made about with people who think that rape victims dress slutty and so the best way to avoid rape is to dress in plain clothes. If slutty is being used as synonymous with sexy then there isn't anything wrong with dressing sexy because sexy and inappropriate and sexy and revealing and revealing and inappropriate are all different words and concepts. The only valid word here is inappropriate as far as how people should be treated negatively and or with consequences and those are enforced by laws and convention rules.

The offense card and irresponsible social reasons arguments lack merit because they too can be applied from a persons own subjective standard, which could make black people, gay people, white people, cross dressers, transgender, transexual, lesbians, all "offensive" and there have been many "social reasons" advocating intolerance to aforementioned groups but they have all been chipped away. Progression is about standards presented meeting good reasons versus bad reasons and a persons sense of sexuality and sluttiness and vulgarity is not a good indication of what a society as a whole should do, unless they actually have really good, considerate, intelligent objective arguments and reasons.

Plus that Star Wars looking guy in the background with a brown cape and outfit is of course free balling sans underwear, who cares? Maybe it makes him better at using the Force? Underwear that one has not wearing they are not! =p

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#146 Posted by Oluf_Von_Host_Museum (84678 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: Still dropping knowledge I see. Nice post.

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#147 Edited by SC (12977 posts) - - Show Bio

@aiden_cross said:

I agree with all three of you. And frankly, what you said should be common sense that even the biggest simpleton should understand. And it still amazes me, though not surprise unfortunately, that so many people can't grasp this simple concept. I guess it goes to show how much educating there is still left to do in the world.

Thanks, and yeah, and hey, I remember when I was younger, I personally use to think that what a woman would wear and do (go out to nightclubs and get drunk) would affect her chances of being raped, and going out alone to strange new places to get drunk alone is kind of a bad idea for other reasons, I remember feeling kind of stupid when I learned that stuff like clothing isn't actually a big factor in rape. Young teenage SC figured that rape was about sex because it involved sex, but young SC was wrong. Then again young SC also valued being educated and honest more than being "right and wrong in arguments" so young SC went and actually spend a long time learning about rape, studies and statistics, testimonies of victims, attackers and so on and so my understanding expanded. New studies and research comes out on such topics all the time. What I find a common problem as far as societies views on such crimes is their ability/inability to understand why other people do things. If rape happened because girls wore short skirts, and men lacked self control as far as sexiness - but its a lot more complicated than that and usually involves power and individuals who have psychological problems that need to be addressed regarding power fantasies and outlets for those vent up feelings.

People are naturally inclined to believe some pretty silly things, but one thing that all people should want to be educated and experts on, are human behavior and attitudes to violent crimes that occur around and to do with murder and rape, because all the misconceptions build up and foster an apologist society where the victim is blamed and penalized and the offended is pardoned and goes on to offend more and more. In-between the victims and offenders you have people shouting at others that they are overestimating the problem, or trying to come to grips with the reality that every 2 mins someone in the USA (I know you and me are not from there but their stats are a good reference point) is sexually assaulted. That means in the I have spent writing my two replies something like 40 people have been sexually assaulted.

Oh and a pretty interesting theory/idea that has been tested a bit about why people try to undermine instances of sexual assault and crime and blame the victim is to actually create distance between what the victim did and does and the people they care about. Its sort of like psychological protection you know? I mean we both have plenty of female friends, I have a little sister, and most people in this thread care about and have females in their life, but for some there is this weird psychological trick to create distance between victims and the people they care about so they can better avoid confronting the possibility that the person they care about could potentially be raped or sexually assaulted. Oh and another sad statistic is that because of the abundance of sexual assaults and crimes many apologists are actually just harboring self guilt from their own experiences, and either can not cope the idea of being a victim, or blame themselves for what happened to them, they also blame the victims in other situations - but its really still more about blaming themselves which is incredibly tragic. Especially because again statistically a lot of sexual assaults and crimes go unreported, especially by males, and given the nature of such attacks, not just physically, but psychologically and mentally, everyone deserves a helping hand and friends and help to deal with and process and cope with all those ugly emotions and feelings. No one should feel shame about their gender or sexuality, or about how they choose to express it.

Short version, education, especially openminded education and a deeper desire to learn rather than affirm preconceived notions and already held views. That and awareness, very poignant and power tools for social change and personal happiness.

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#148 Edited by Teerack (5851 posts) - - Show Bio

@gambler said:

@teerack: That comment surely was.

I also like how you took a picture of a "professional Cosplay girl" who gets paid to dress provocatively in order to pad your argument. I would suggest actually going to 16 Bit Siren.com and reading the actual article. It has nothing to do with women thinking they can run around in what amounts to a bra and panties without garnering attention. Well written ignorance is still ignorance.

I just took the first image on google when i searched cosplay girl, and that's a remarkably shallow point because I could easily post over a 100 girls in in this thread in similar outfits that are not professionals with literally zero effort. Everyone knows who Jessica Nigri is lol. Just didn't care that the picture was her because it was so irrelevant. You should know that this thread is about the way girls are treated because of the kind of costumes they wear, because I guess you got confused...

This should help illustrate the lack of a point you have

@sc: I'm to tired to read and reply to that now. I'll do it tomorrow.

#149 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc:

so, if rape has nothing to do with sex, would that mean that any instance motivated by sex wouldn't be rape?

I'm also not very sure how accurate the "every two minutes" statistic is

the whole mental deffense mechanism thing sounds interesting, could you link me to some more information about that one?

#150 Posted by SC (12977 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1 said:

@sc: so, if rape has nothing to do with sex, would that mean that any instance motivated by sex wouldn't be rape? I'm also not very sure how accurate the "every two minutes" statistic is, the whole mental deffense mechanism thing sounds interesting, could you link me to some more information about that one?

Usually I find its best to define things by what they are, not what they aren't so your question confuses me a bit, hence my answer will sort of go in a different direction, if that is okay with you? Its not that rape has nothing do with sex, everything has to do with everything. With rape sex isn't usually a motivating factor as much as power and control and power and control issues. Sexual intercourse is a factor because its the method utilized to assert power and control. So approaching rape as a sex thing instead of a power and control thing isn't really that useful as far as fixing, addressing the problem. Hence the strong reaction to pointing out rape not being about sex but more about power and control (note the more part isn't meant to infer that rape has absolutely nothing to do with sex naturally)

Skeptical of the statistic that every two minutes someone is raped in the United States of America? Thats great, I think skepticism is great and should be encouraged especially as it pertains to spending money on resources, and especially especially as far as a persons own self and views are concerned and I am a bit skeptical of that number myself, given that I only spent about 5 minutes looking up a few various websites that I know are relatively reliable and have not had time to look at/verify the sources of info and double check and so on, and because a few of these websites gave out slightly different figures, one was 2 mins, another was 90 seconds, and a few of them were just applying the number as an average hence possibly more accurate to say that instead of a rape every 2 mins, there are XYZ number of rates a day because the likelihood that certain times experience more rape than others is probable. Based on what knowledge I have from the past on the subject the number isn't that unreliable.

It is pretty interesting, but I apologize, I am just too lazy to try and find and filter good sources, but Google is your friend and a few days/weeks of looking around various sites and following the trail of links that the good sites usually provide and some skepticism and critical thinking should do you alright. Its half of what I did, but I had to sift through a lot of nonsense as well. Oh and government websites as well don't have much by way of psychology papers, studies research but as far as above they are a potential resource. Hope that helps.

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