Why is the Punisher so underrated

Being a fan of the punisher I've been following him since his early inception. I always liked him because he was a normal human who uses his wits, strategy, and weapons to fight his war on crime, and the occasional super hero. While he has been outclassed by DD, Spider-Man, moon knight, etc. he has on numerous occasions won. The man has escaped SHIELD, captain america, us agent, black widow, and even tricked the avengers. You can't be an idiot to do what he's been doing for 30 years. What makes him different from other heroes is the fact he kills. Almost all heroes believe the villian can redeem themselves, and have this never ending battle of good & evil. Punisher knows someone will take their place, and that the war is never over. When I see the forum battles people say things like it wasn't a fair fight, or he tricked them. Once again when fighting Spider-Man he is at a disadvantage due to the augmented strength, and abilities. Your not going to win without a equalizer. When going up against the hulk which not a lot of heroes can go blow to blow with beat him by being smart (having Bruce eat a c4stew). He has beaten rhino with guns, and tech. It's called strategy. He studies the people he fights as well as other heroes to find flaws to exploit. Yet with all his accomplishments over the years all we hear is he's a stupid brawler. He'd get his ass handed in dc. He is a joke. Yet in batmans world it's called prep. What's the deal? Why is it if batman uses tech to fight superman it's strategy, and punisher using c4 to stop the hulk isn't. You can say franks been ko'd by regular guys. So has batman. Harvey dent is a human, and did it. Is Harvey's h2h better than batman... No. It shows us though that batman can make mistakes he is only human after all. I understand if you don't like punisher, and don't read his books. However for those of us that do don't insult our intelligence. What's your opinion?

He's not.

The guy with 3 movies is underrated?

He's not underrated he makes a GREAT villain.

He's not underrated

Punisher's never been a villain..He's always been an anti-hero. It's his attitude towards crime that makes him seem bad because he's willing to shoot the good guys just as much as he is the bad

He's been a villain many times. He shot and killed people for jaywalking, gone after spiderman and so and so forth. He makes a great villain.

PS You might want to look up the history of the characters before actually posting.

None of that makes him a villain though. Wolverine's killed just as many people if not more and gone after heroes as well. At the core of Castle's character, he' s a crimefighter. That's his whole identity.

he's thrown a grenade on a bridge full of civilians just to get one bad guy LOL. He is a bad guy who thinks he's doing good, and I am fine with that. He just doesn't care. I'm shocked he didn't just blow up oscorp and kingpins tower yet

That's totally bad writing then, at one point Frank was on the verge of committing suicide because he killed an undercover cop

The difference between Wolverine and Punisher as of right now. Wolverine is trying not to be that person. Marvel has been steadily pushing him away from the killer type. Unlike punisher. That there is the difference. If you would of said this 10 years ago. Yeah I would agree with you.

Not really that always been how his characters has been. He jumps the line between good and bad. Which is the part that makes him a bad guy.

I want to see scans of 616 Punisher killing innocents (no sarcasm :))

What's happening right now is irrelevant, especially considering his current run is not reflective of his past years AT ALL. And he's not the only example. Deadpool is another character who's constantly teetering on the edge of "good" and "bad". He's killed innocents for no reason at all and fought heroes just like Frank has, but he's also fought villians and tried to save lives on many occasions. That's the definition of an anti-hero. That's what Frank is. His purpose in life is to fight crime by whatever means necessary. He doesn't take joy in killing heroes nor does he do it often, but he will if he has to.

Anti-Hero doesn't mean going back and forth from good and bad. Anti hero definition is a hero who lacks SOME qualities a normal hero has. Thats the reason why Deadpool and Punisher will never be a Hero or even a Anti Hero because they are always a villain.

Punisher is a MAX or Parental Advisory so it's harder for a broad range of people to buy the books. my theory. same with Deadpool.

@manchine said:

The Punisher is one of the most popular Marvel characters out there, he's not underrated.

@wwpd: First off, learn to write. Paragraphs guy. I didn't really read that because it was painful.

Moving on.

@manchine: @gambit474: @jonny_anonymous@gunswordfist_@juicebok@w0nd

You're one to talk. Punisher has NEVER been a villain and if you think he has then you obviously know nothing about him nor the meaning of an anti-hero. LOL Punisher has always been a villain..Man you've got to be the most full of shit person on here. Frank's NEVER killed anyone just for the heck of it..Every time he's attacked anyone,even for the smallest reasons,had to do with the law being broken. I'm seriously laughing right now because people actually think he's a bad guy..Lol gone after spider-man makes him bad. The only times Frank has ever gone after heroes is if he thought they had done something wrong or killed someone..Go look how he threatened SpOck in their encounter. If going after a hero makes someone a villain then I could butcher your logic so badly with bringing up Marvel's Civil war when Cap and his gang were standing up to Iron Man. I always love watching people try to talk about characters when everything they spout is falsities and lies

Speaking of Frank and innocents..Old conversation on this very site concerning such a matter ;)

Has Frank shot innocents before?

Killing someone for jaywalking definitely makes you a villain. I don't follow Punisher closely enough to know what issue manchine is talking about, but if that's true then Punisher is/was unquestionably a villain.

@moonchilde: Hes not a villain even though he most likely did that

What does one have to do then to be considered a villain in your mind then? Cause honestly, killing jaywalkers is far more heinous then what 90% of comic book villains have done. About half of Spider-Man's villains are just petty theives with animal themed powers, guess none of them are villains either.

It just means you have skewed view of justice. Honestly, I've never seen him do that so I don't even know if that's true. If it is, it's not something he does often. The majority of his time is spent fighting underground crime lords and actual criminals. The occasional vigilante that gets in his way, but usually crime.

So I have a skewed view of justice because I don't agree with Punisher's view on justice?

Right, keep telling yourself that.

Its old issue. Its from one of the first times Punisher was around. I think it was a spiderman comic but it was a very long time ago.... late 70's early 80's. During this time he did lots and lots of questionable things.

@moonchilde: Most of spidey's villains have done far worse also its not normal for the punisher to do that

He is an anti-hero. Yes he goes extreme on all crime. Doesn't make him a villian. What I meant by underrated. If you look at the vs battles people say if he was u. Dc he'd get curb stomped by even the lowest street leveler.

If he uses a weapon on a super power he is cheating, but when it's batman it's prep. I'll be the first to agree punisher couldn't beat batman, but to say it's an absolute curb stomp is stupid. He isn't a lumbering brawler with no skills as mentioned in the battles.

I also was called an idiot for saying marvel would never allow capt America, or Spider-Man to lose to deathstroke in a cross over

SOME of spidey's villains have done far worse, certainly not most, and normal or not for Punisher to do that, the fact that he has shows that he has certainly crossed the line beyond anti-hero and into out-right villain.

..forgive me if it sounded like the first sentence was directed to you. It wasn't. I was actually referring to Punisher or whoever that specific act would apply to.

@moonchilde: When exactly did that happen then ?

Not a fan of Punisher at all, he's not a hero, he's not even an anti hero, he's a psychopath with a gun going around shooting people he deems worthy of death.

Fair enough. I apologize for mis-understanding what you were trying to say.

I don't know, I was just refering to what @manchine claimed, though it kind-of doesn't matter as @risingbean posted several scans above of Punisher shooting at people for littering and running a red light; thus clearly supporting the claim that Punisher crossed into psychopathic territory beyond what a mere anti-hero would do and well into behavior normally reserved for villains.

Frank suffers from bad writing and overexposure just like every other Marvel money making A-lister out there.

He's lost his marbles a few times and gone over the edge.

Heck, he was even turned into some kind of perverted Frankenstein monster mishap after Daken carved him up (why Marvel lets some of their writers run with that crap is beyond me).

Is he low balled? Hell no. Any peak human who can hold his own against antagonists Frank has done himself proud against is definitely being portrayed as top tier.

You want to have as your very own personal bestest hero out there, the daddy who can beat up all other daddies, then begin a bromance with Thor or Superman and their ilk. Castle's not about having the biggest bicep out there. Nor is he top of the street level roost. That's not his allure anyway.

And he sure as heck is not underrated. Overexposed, at times misused, yeah, name an A-lister who hasn't suffered through atrocious writing (clones, going feral and growing canines etc. etc.). Underrated? Nah.

@wwpd: because he's fighting amped beings at best and while his morals are loose, it really won't help him in a fight against those kind of enemies especially with his kind of strategy. i don't even remember a prep feat of punisher that would equal to that of batman.

@moonchilde: Those arent even recent

punisher is the definition of an anti-hero , his stories are great (when u take the superhero element out), and he does what he does best : take out the bad guys

I like Punisher...But I HATE his writers. Why? His writers usually hate regular superheros and so they make those superheros look extremely bad against Frank. Ex Punisher vs Wolverine.

It seems the Punisher lives in his own universe within the Marvel universe and the writers seems to be always isolated from other characters and big events, but when he's not you get this...

Gallery

When other characters enter his universe, they're always victims to extreme PIS. Thats one thing I dislike about the Punisher character. But I do like him, but he's not on my top 10.

Punisher kept Bruce banner on a c4 stew knowing he was the hulk. Even pushed him to changing, and while others are fighting he blows him up from the inside.

Another prep moment was fighting daredevil. He said he couldn't hang so he used a sonic emitter to scramble his sense. Tied him up, and made him question his morals by taping a gun to his hand, and making him choose to kill frank or not. He used prep to sneak Rachael alves out of prison stole a iron man suit, and fought the avengers. While yes these feats aren't nothing to batman it doesn't mean that frank would get curb stomped that's ridiculous.

@manchine said:

Hello. This is unnecessary. Its unnecessary because its patronizing. Its more than okay to disagree with other posters but please refrain from implying they don't know what they are talking about or need to read more about a character thanks.

Along the same lines this is an inappropriate response as well. Even if you feel justified by their tone or implication, you should really avoid making personal remarks about other posters, especially direct and plain insults as well. Totally unnecessary. Please refrain from this sort of retaliation.

Its okay to disagree but both of you try and be a bit nicer and polite in future thanks. Take care and happy holidays. ^_^

@theacidskull said:

Oh have you read any of the Ennis Punisher Max series? The Punisher 2004 series? It has some great stories in it that give a more nuanced and sympathetic Frank. That and some great stories that cover some real life atrocities in ways a lot of comics don't usually cover. Some stories really capture grief and loss well as well as well as purpose and will.

@moonchilde: The scans were from Spectacular Spidey Issue number 82. It came out in Sept 1983.

Punisher is underrated because people are always thinking of Batman. There's too much comparing. It's annoying.

The Slavers story from the MAX series is hands down my pick for the greatest Punisher story ever. Period.

tldr

You know, I was just thinking about why the Punisher was so overrated.

loljk

@savagedragon said:

Great choice, that was definitely a great Punisher story, probably my favorite as well just thinking about it. I also liked Girls in White Dresses from that same series too. Even if one doesn't like the character, they are just great stories as far as plots and insight into horrible things that happen and its toll on everyone in such situations.