#1 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio
All-New X-Men #7

I mean what is her motive? I get Magneto, he actually has good motives, just bad methods.

But Mystique does not make much sense...does she just wanna be top dawg or what?

I mean she treats her own kind REALLY bad to say the least. She makes even Emma Frost look good, and she is no angel either. The difference between them has to do with an exceedingly large body count on Mystiques part, or at least attempted. Mystique I would bet has had more partners than the famed Emma Frost by far. But the fact that she can shapeshift should...if anything, make her more accepting of others rather than being intolerant.

Just saying, psychologically, given what she can do, her character makes little sense to me.

Powers do have a psychological effect on you, or should, because of what the allow you to do. What your able to do has a lot to do with what your like and what you become. Since she can BE anything literally, what on Earth causes her to be such a jerk on a regular basis? No one forces her to be, she just is.

Maybe it's just WIS (writer induced stupidity).

Everybody needs a villain, but villains should make sense, and Mystique does not, given what she can do and her long life span.

#2 Posted by SC (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

She could shape shift to be anything right? So you don't think she can experience first hand the worst kinds of discrimination first hand by every type of person there is? It could make a person more empathetic and tolerant, but I think its a mistake to believe it couldn't make a person more jaded and cynical, especially given the period she grew up in. I actually think Mystique makes a lot of sense. She's basically like all the anonymous jerks online who can use that anonymity as an illusion of power. That also being said Mystique has had many nice moments as well.

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#3 Posted by infonation (1665 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe she was experimented on by APOCALYPSE! So her potential for being a mutant was late blooming, but VERY effective once it was around long enough, if it hadn't been for HIM, she might never had been a mutant at all! But there's was a CATCH... For all her power she became cold, bitter and obsessed with self-preservation! Not just from side-effects of the process but from her own inevitable megalomania, she still retains a tiny spark of her humanity but just to the point where she's not a bloodthisty monster or a power mad world-conquerer!

Would THAT make her a more sympathetic character?

#4 Edited by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

Perhaps it's BECAUSE of her long life span that she's so despicable: She's seen the worst humanity has to offer. Magneto may have been in a death camp for a few years, but Mystique has been watching humans do crap like that for a quite a bit longer. Yeah, she can change into anyone, but she can never be TRULY her without getting attacked. Think about it this way: You can buy as much clothing as you want, but you have to be completely covered all the time, so no one can see you. Show so much as an inch of what you really look like, and you're attacked, maybe even killed. Now picture having to do that, all the time, for over a hundred years. I trust you can imagine being a bit bitter about it by that point, huh?

Hell, she had to THROW HER OWN NEWBORN CHILD over a WATERFALL, because he inherited her looks. She wants to survive, to live, and unlike the X-Men, she's been alone all that time. She has no offensive powers. Nothing to protect herself except her own skills. She's had NOWHERE to run all that time, but she's ran all the same. And at some point, she had to choose between her life and someone else. She'd seen what people like this had done to their OWN kind, much less her. She did what she had to. She chose her life over theirs. The next time she slipped, she had to make the choice again, and she did the same thing. Each time she'd be more careful, but each time there'd be something to force her into making that choice. Someone would get leverage on her, or merely try to blackmail her, somehow, she'd be forced to do bad things to survive.

And eventually, she became a bad person. Because only a bad person could do the things she's had to do to survive and still be anything resembling sane.

So now we're left with this Mystique. A survivor by nature, evil by nurture. Condemned for being what the world made her.

#5 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is she so evil?  Hmmmm.
 
1: She's female... and females are the root of all evil...
 
2: um..
Actually, do I need any more reasons?

#6 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

Why is she so evil? Hmmmm. 1: She's female... and females are the root of all evil... 2: um.. Actually, do I need any more reasons?

Let's not insult females here. In truth, we have a choice. We all do. Mystique is just an example of repeated evil choices.

I don't see how self preservation is such a big deal unless she can't hold her disguise indefinitely. In that case I could understand why she has to hide so much. That could make her quite dangerous if fighting for her life.

But if she wanted to take it easy, just move to some primitive tribe where they think she is a goddess. They would treat her like a queen. So long she didn't treat them bad. Given her great regenerative abilities, she should be able to dish out anything tribesmen can throw at her anyway.

#7 Posted by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

Some people are just pricks, sounds over simplified but its true. I've known several people who literally had no justifiable reason to be assholes yet they were some of the most genuinely terrible people I've ever met. For instance I have a cousin who has great parents, never hit him or talked down to him or anything like that, he lived in a good middle class suburb never had to worry too much about money or any of the things that are considered to be the reasons for being a prick, but the dude was a pompous ass and a bully whose currently in prison for beating the crap out of some tiny dude in a bar for as he put it "Looking at him weird."

#8 Posted by SC (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

Why should a person have to move to a primitive tribe to be who they are? Thats akin to saying to any minority not happy with the status quo to just go away if you don't like it. I could imagine that Mystique would actually rather pissed that she doesn't get to be who she really is as far as being treated fairly. So its about considering how people are and think as opposed to what one might do themselves.

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#9 Posted by Timandm (3374 posts) - - Show Bio
@lorbo said:

@Timandm said:

Why is she so evil? Hmmmm. 1: She's female... and females are the root of all evil... 2: um.. Actually, do I need any more reasons?

Let's not insult females here. In truth, we have a choice. We all do. Mystique is just an example of repeated evil choices.

I don't see how self preservation is such a big deal unless she can't hold her disguise indefinitely. In that case I could understand why she has to hide so much. That could make her quite dangerous if fighting for her life.

But if she wanted to take it easy, just move to some primitive tribe where they think she is a goddess. They would treat her like a queen. So long she didn't treat them bad. Given her great regenerative abilities, she should be able to dish out anything tribesmen can throw at her anyway.

So...  I just HAVE to ask.  You HONESTLY believe, I was being serious...  Is that correct?
#10 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorbo said:

I don't see how self preservation is such a big deal unless she can't hold her disguise indefinitely. In that case I could understand why she has to hide so much. That could make her quite dangerous if fighting for her life.

But if she wanted to take it easy, just move to some primitive tribe where they think she is a goddess. They would treat her like a queen. So long she didn't treat them bad. Given her great regenerative abilities, she should be able to dish out anything tribesmen can throw at her anyway.

She can hold her disguises indefinitely, unless distracted or injured. To carry through on my previous metaphor: it's like if you chose to wear a hood, and it was yanked down for some reason beyond your control. Boom, everyone attacks you. Same basic principle.

As for the primitive tribe: While most society's have some form of trickster god who shapeshifts into various animals, they're typically portrayed as evil. Loki got 'em all a bad rap. So chances are if she tried that, she'd be called the resident trickster god and driven out.

#11 Posted by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

You could actually turn the OP's logic about power affecting personality to ask why is Superman so good? Given that he could conquer the world in about an hour and what we know about Kryptonian society he should by all rights be an Iron fisted tyrant. And don't give me that upbringing argument since it pretty much negates your theory that power affects personality.

#12 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

@Timandm said:

@lorbo said:

@Timandm said:

Why is she so evil? Hmmmm. 1: She's female... and females are the root of all evil... 2: um.. Actually, do I need any more reasons?

Let's not insult females here. In truth, we have a choice. We all do. Mystique is just an example of repeated evil choices.

I don't see how self preservation is such a big deal unless she can't hold her disguise indefinitely. In that case I could understand why she has to hide so much. That could make her quite dangerous if fighting for her life.

But if she wanted to take it easy, just move to some primitive tribe where they think she is a goddess. They would treat her like a queen. So long she didn't treat them bad. Given her great regenerative abilities, she should be able to dish out anything tribesmen can throw at her anyway.

So... I just HAVE to ask. You HONESTLY believe, I was being serious... Is that correct?

Never sure to be precise...in every exaggeration there is a hint of truth LOL.

@joshmightbe said:

Some people are just pricks, sounds over simplified but its true. I've known several people who literally had no justifiable reason to be assholes yet they were some of the most genuinely terrible people I've ever met. For instance I have a cousin who has great parents, never hit him or talked down to him or anything like that, he lived in a good middle class suburb never had to worry too much about money or any of the things that are considered to be the reasons for being a prick, but the dude was a pompous ass and a bully whose currently in prison for beating the crap out of some tiny dude in a bar for as he put it "Looking at him weird."

That is a classic villain. The one who thinks too much of him/herself. That is the only motive one can have for doing what you described. When one thinks that way they presume and also treat others badly just because they think THEY are better.

@SC said:

Why should a person have to move to a primitive tribe to be who they are? Thats akin to saying to any minority not happy with the status quo to just go away if you don't like it. I could imagine that Mystique would actually rather pissed that she doesn't get to be who she really is as far as being treated fairly. So its about considering how people are and think as opposed to what one might do themselves.

I was only presenting the only possible solution that might make her life more peaceful. Whether she agrees with or not is another story. As it is, all she seems to do is harm others anyway.

#13 Posted by joshmightbe (24598 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorbo: I always just assumed he was at least a border line sociopath

#14 Posted by SC (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorbo said:

@SC said:

Why should a person have to move to a primitive tribe to be who they are? Thats akin to saying to any minority not happy with the status quo to just go away if you don't like it. I could imagine that Mystique would actually rather pissed that she doesn't get to be who she really is as far as being treated fairly. So its about considering how people are and think as opposed to what one might do themselves.

I was only presenting the only possible solution that might make her life more peaceful. Whether she agrees with or not is another story. As it is, all she seems to do is harm others anyway.

I think its a good solution ^_^ - also I could think of lots of solutions for Mystique, that would make her life more peaceful, but people generally (if we are looking at Mystique as being a real person for the while) generally don't like being told what to do by other people, and you can guess based on her personality that she wouldn't agree with you right? Is it okay for me to assume you are not over 100? For Mystique she would probably roll her eyes at you for making such a suggestion. It would be like a 3 year old trying to give you life advice. Mystique justifies her actions and attitude a number of ways, and so maybe the priority in her life isn't peace. Maybe she is angry and bitter and resentful and wants to hurt and break down other people as she sees fit.

I do understand your point I think, but its sort of like imagining going into a prison and telling all of them to start being nice. If they listened, it probably would benefit a lot of them, but most of them will probably want to live their life their own way and have strong reasons and ideas to justify their actions and behaviors.

Mystique has done some good mind you, have you read her sole series? Its pretty well written and gives some good insight into her motivations and attitudes.

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#15 Edited by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

You could actually turn the OP's logic about power affecting personality to ask why is Superman so good? Given that he could conquer the world in about an hour and what we know about Kryptonian society he should by all rights be an Iron fisted tyrant. And don't give me that upbringing argument since it pretty much negates your theory that power affects personality.

Let's be clear...power shows what you are...to a greater degree.

When you have more power, you do what you already do, just to a greater degree. Ya get me? That is the ONLY effect.

As for Mystique she is definitely a villain by choice.

#16 Posted by JonSmith (3988 posts) - - Show Bio

@lorbo said:

@joshmightbe said:

You could actually turn the OP's logic about power affecting personality to ask why is Superman so good? Given that he could conquer the world in about an hour and what we know about Kryptonian society he should by all rights be an Iron fisted tyrant. And don't give me that upbringing argument since it pretty much negates your theory that power affects personality.

Let's be clear...power shows what you are...to a greater degree.

When you have more power, you do what you already do, just to a greater degree. Ya get me? That is the ONLY effect.

I'm afraid Lincoln put it more eloquently than you, Lorbo. He once said, "Nearly all men can handle adversity. But to truly test a man's character, give him power."

#17 Posted by lorbo (1541 posts) - - Show Bio

Where do ya think I got the idea from LOL.

I just didn't feel like quoting word for word LOL.

#18 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i think she's evil because she know she can get away with and its fun. she likes to maniuplate others to show them the worst humanity has to offers. 
 
i think because being good means you have to have some responsiblity for your actions.  ex. spider-man
evil - i can do whatever i want and not care about the consquences as long as they don't affect me. ex. the joker

#19 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

She's a survivalist. She's not evil, she's just exclusively interested in self-preservation. Though occasionally that sense of protection extends to her loved ones.

#20 Posted by save.me.now (207 posts) - - Show Bio

Actually I'm kinda leaning towards WIS (Writer induced Supervillainy). I've been reading every X title since a bit before Schism and it seemed that Mystique was actually starting to mellow out in her old age kinda like Logan and then she suddenly "dies" then reappears worse than ever. If it's not a clone/brainwashing/another shapeshifter It just looks like writers aren't sure what to do with her character.

#21 Posted by Yung ANcient One (4601 posts) - - Show Bio

I think everyone agrees that she's Old, and has seen the worse in humans. Now she's bitter, only cares about her survival, and she's a woman.

XP

"Hell have no fury like a woman scorned"

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