• 69 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by CYCLOPS_WAS_RIGHT (28 posts) - - Show Bio

But the scarlet witch is

scarlet witch commits genocide no one bats an eye

cyke gets possessed by a cosmic force everyone loses their mind

i mean seriously cap and the avengers are freaking hypocrite jerks, wanda never takes any blame or even shows remorse for what she did during house of m, and she even has a spot on the avengers waiting for her-she is not punished at all. yet everyone is so quick to pounce on cyclops for what he did during avx-it is very stupid

conclusion tldr: avengers are hypocritical jerks, the scarlet witch gets off free, cyclops is unfairly judged

#2 Posted by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

Because we all hate Cyclops.

#3 Posted by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Wanda did show remorse for what she did in Childrens Crusade. Because Cyclops hasn't. Because Wanda didn't commit genocide, some people died ofc with her taking away their powers, but she didn't kill them all. Cyke on the other hand seems to believe he's allowed a free pass because he's defending mutants. Besides, how much of the killing of Xavier was the Phoenix is debatable since Scott and Charles' relationship had been very strained for quite a while before this.

Anyways, if anyone should be blamed for House of M, then it's Quicksilver for setting her on that road. Lucky for him though, no one seems to remember his part in it all.

#4 Posted by lykopis (10746 posts) - - Show Bio

Because.

#5 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Scott killed him out of self-defense. They're after him because they need someone to blame.

#6 Posted by Dernman (15635 posts) - - Show Bio

This again let it rest?

Edit: You can't claim self defense when he was in no danger. He was so far beyond Xavier there was no real threat something he himself stated.

#7 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2215 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Wanda was on the hook for years until it was no longer to be on the hook for the plot. Now it's Cyclops' turn to be hated for a few years until something happens and he's mostly forgiven.

#8 Posted by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@outside_85: Scott killed him out of self-defense. They're after him because they need someone to blame.

Self-defense? Right. Pretty sure this translates accurately to a tank opening fire on a man threatening it with a wooden stick.

#9 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Xavier posed a legitimate threat and forced Scott to do what he did. There's no court that would or should find Scott guilty, regardless of whether or not Xavier was actually capable of killing or hurting him.

#10 Posted by Dernman (15635 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@outside_85: Xavier posed a legitimate threat and forced Scott to do what he did. There's no court that would or should find Scott guilty, regardless of whether or not Xavier was actually capable of killing or hurting him.

Xavier was in no way a legitimate threat nor was he forced to do so. Again the phoenix was so far above him.and Xavier as stated by Cyclops himself didn't understand the full scope of what he had become. The only threat. ONLY threat was Scarlet Witch and Hope.

#11 Posted by dbatdog (548 posts) - - Show Bio

wait for another 5 years and probably Scott will be forgiven...then someone will be blame for another big crossover event, my guess would be Wolverine or Hulk.

#12 Posted by sentryman555 (823 posts) - - Show Bio

Because according to wolverine, Cyclops killed the only guy that mattered. But I agree. Cyclops is getting too much hate.

#13 Edited by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: Xavier was having an affect on Scott. If you're suggesting that Scott should have just sat there while Xavier attempted to kill him, then you're wrong. Scott did nothing wrong while he had the Phoenix Force. The Avengers just didn't want to admit they were wrong.

#14 Posted by Dernman (15635 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbatdog said:

wait for another 5 years and probably Scott will be forgiven...then someone will be blame for another big crossover event, my guess would be Wolverine or Hulk.

Wolverine should have been blamed for breaking the time stream. Though that would be kinda hypocritical considering how many people have changed the past before.

#15 Posted by dbatdog (548 posts) - - Show Bio

Because according to wolverine, Cyclops killed the only guy that mattered. But I agree. Cyclops is getting too much hate.

didn't the X-men should have learn from now that nobody ever dies in comics? Can somebody tell me how many times Charles died and get resurrected - mind swapping included?

#16 Edited by Dernman (15635 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@dernman: Xavier was having an affect on Scott. If you're suggesting that Scott should have just sat there while Xavier attempted to kill him, then you're wrong. Scott did nothing wrong while he had the Phoenix Force. The Avengers just didn't want to admit they were wrong.

Xavier was not having an effect on Scott further than a very small portion of him and only because he was distracted. Scott had become something much more than what Xavier was touching. That's what Scott was talking about when he said Xavier didn't understand what he had become. He didn't have to just stand there because there wasn't anything Xavier could have legitimately done to him and if he wanted to do something anyway he could have easily done something non lethal because he was so far beyond Xavier. Even if Scott didn't have almost unlimited power Xavier is only human and wouldn't take much to knock him out. Whether the Avengers were wrong or not is an entirly different debate. (they weren't though) Even if they were he still killed a man he didn't need too. The only ONLY defense Scott has was that he was under the influence of the PF. That's it.

#17 Posted by dbatdog (548 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@dbatdog said:

wait for another 5 years and probably Scott will be forgiven...then someone will be blame for another big crossover event, my guess would be Wolverine or Hulk.

Wolverine should have been blamed for breaking the time stream. Though that would be kinda hypocritical considering how many people have changed the past before.

yeah I read the ultron story...i'm not sure they would blame him for that since that story arc suck :)

#18 Posted by Dernman (15635 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbatdog said:

@dernman said:

@dbatdog said:

wait for another 5 years and probably Scott will be forgiven...then someone will be blame for another big crossover event, my guess would be Wolverine or Hulk.

Wolverine should have been blamed for breaking the time stream. Though that would be kinda hypocritical considering how many people have changed the past before.

yeah I read the ultron story...i'm not sure they would blame him for that since that story arc suck :)

Tell me about it. Waited soo long for it and that's what they came up with. :p

#19 Posted by youmessinwithme (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

she also didn't really genocide mutants, many of them did die as a direct result of her spell. but she only depowered most of them.

That would be like if someone found away to suck out everyone's pigment, african american's would not be genocided by this. they would simply not have dark skin anymore.

a vast majority of the former mutants are still alive, they just don't have an active X-gene. hardly genocide.

plus Wanda tried to make up for it, and wasn't off the hook and got killed over it... so yeah..

#20 Posted by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@dernman: Xavier was having an affect on Scott. If you're suggesting that Scott should have just sat there while Xavier attempted to kill him, then you're wrong. Scott did nothing wrong while he had the Phoenix Force. The Avengers just didn't want to admit they were wrong.

The Avengers feared it would only be a matter of time that a docile and benevolent Phoenix would be replaced with the Dark Phoenix... and they didn't have to wait long before Phoenix-Namor killed thousands of Wakandian civilians to get to the Avengers, the hosts growing more and more irrational and finally a Dark Phoenix that nearly tore the planet apart while throwing a tantrum. Not to mention they practically took over the world an hour after becoming hosts.

#21 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman: So, I guess Jean is guilty for the Dark Phoenix Saga. PF is all the argument that is needed, however, Scott didn't have full control. The power was simply too much. It would be like you turning into the Hulk and then me blamimg you for breaking a glass cup you were holding because you don't know how to control your strength. Self-defense is justified when someone is attacked by someone with ill-intent which is exactly how it went down.

Also, the Avengers were wrong in every imaginable way possible.

#22 Posted by sentryman555 (823 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbatdog said:

@sentryman555 said:

Because according to wolverine, Cyclops killed the only guy that mattered. But I agree. Cyclops is getting too much hate.

didn't the X-men should have learn from now that nobody ever dies in comics? Can somebody tell me how many times Charles died and get resurrected - mind swapping included?

From what I can tell from some research. Actually being killed off and not just re-paralyzed, about 5 times now. and he faked his death once. Not sure if that counts. I was just pointing out how hypocritical Logan is with all the people he's killed. How can wolverine do no wrong now?

#23 Posted by dbatdog (548 posts) - - Show Bio

@dbatdog said:

@sentryman555 said:

Because according to wolverine, Cyclops killed the only guy that mattered. But I agree. Cyclops is getting too much hate.

didn't the X-men should have learn from now that nobody ever dies in comics? Can somebody tell me how many times Charles died and get resurrected - mind swapping included?

From what I can tell from some research. Actually being killed off and not just re-paralyzed, about 5 times now. and he faked his death once. Not sure if that counts. I was just pointing out how hypocritical Logan is with all the people he's killed. How can wolverine do no wrong now?

He's Marvel cash cow that's why :)

#24 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: And instead of reasoning with Scott they decide to attack him. Attack a guy who brought peace, food, water, and energy to the world. Would Scott have become corrupt? Possibly. However, the Avengers had already walked passed that line.

#25 Posted by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@outside_85: And instead of reasoning with Scott they decide to attack him. Attack a guy who brought peace, food, water, and energy to the world. Would Scott have become corrupt? Possibly. However, the Avengers had already walked passed that line.

And since when in that whole sorry affair was Scott a reasonable person? He was practically doing a Dr. Doom; 'you can have peace, food, light and water, as long as you bow down to me.'

#26 Posted by movieartman (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

THE BIGGEST AND MOST IMPORTANT REASONs

1.) Wanda went insane and committed crimes, there was nothing she choose to do at beforehand that lead to such, there is nothing she could have done to prevent it while still in her sane state.

2.) cyclops on the other hand caused everything that lead to him becoming possessed by the pheonix force.

He knew deep down the firebird was too dangerous to let come near earth, he knew hope wasn't ready mentally and especially emotionally to control it, but he still had to fight the avengers when they came to take her UNHARMED in to protective custody and off world so that when the firebird did eventually get to her and she looses control it wouldn't happen on earth. All so he could stick it to the man, all so he could say man can't control the mutant race EVEN THO YOUR LIVING IN OUR WORLD and in our country, you are still suppose to follow are laws.

But noooooooooooooooooo

F--k Cyclops

#27 Edited by Dernman (15635 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: So, I guess Jean is guilty for the Dark Phoenix Saga. PF is all the argument that is needed, however, Scott didn't have full control.

I already answered that when I said this.

The only ONLY defense Scott has was that he was under the influence of the PF

Also there is much more going on with why people are angry with Scott. Like what was going on before and after he was possessed that takes away from the consideration people would have given him for being possessed. EDIT: Which is why most of the hate is being save for Scott and not the others

The power was simply too much. It would be like you turning into the Hulk and then me blamimg you for breaking a glass cup you were holding because you don't know how to control your strength.

and yet you can't just let that power run free now can you. You have to do something about it but unlike the Hulk Scott would not have returned to normal if you just left him alone. You're also not totally blameless because like they said over and over the PF only heightened what was already there. Like someone under the influence.

Self-defense is justified when someone is attacked by someone with ill-intent which is exactly how it went down.

Self defense is not justified when there is no threat to the person which there wan't and even then the action of how far you needed to go in self defense is always in question and he didn't need to go that far.

Also, the Avengers were wrong in every imaginable way possible.

No they were not. With the information they had in the beginning they took the only sane conclusion. Unlike Scott who was acting like a religious fanatic with not much basses to base his belief on and by the time they failed and the 5 were possessed they needed to fix that problem. Scott took a dump and got lucky that the PF was there to do what he thought and technically it didn't. Not everyone got their powers back, and as writers stated these mutants are different then the previous though that might have been dropped by them.

#28 Edited by THEBlaqueBasterd (383 posts) - - Show Bio

The social engineering experiment/morbidly pointless character assassination that's been Cyclops "development" over the last yrs ever since he started running utopia was almost clandestine

How dare a minority (fictional minority though it may be) character display the strengths of both his protagonist iv/antagonistic predecessors with none of their weaknesses whilst becoming a force to be reckoned with in the marvel universe...

How dare he indeed like many a great revolutionary he had to be taken down a few hundred gradual and methodical pegs

And boy did they lower his pedestal

#29 Posted by sentryman555 (823 posts) - - Show Bio

THE BIGGEST AND MOST IMPORTANT REASONs

1.) Wanda went insane and committed crimes, there was nothing she choose to do at beforehand that lead to such, there is nothing she could have done to prevent it while still in her sane state.

2.) cyclops on the other hand caused everything that lead to him becoming possessed by the pheonix force.

He knew deep down the firebird was too dangerous to let come near earth, he knew hope wasn't ready mentally and especially emotionally to control it, but he still had to fight the avengers when they came to take her UNHARMED in to protective custody and off world so that when the firebird did eventually get to her and she looses control it wouldn't happen on earth. All so he could stick it to the man, all so he could say man can't control the mutant race EVEN THO YOUR LIVING IN OUR WORLD and in our country, you are still suppose to follow are laws.

But noooooooooooooooooo

F--k Cyclops

Whether it was arrogance or actual belief I don't think scott knew deep down the firebird was too dangerous. He trusted Hope and was training her to get ready to control it. Because Scott has faith in the mutants. Claiming the avengers came to take her UNHARMED is kind of bull. That's what they said they're intention was but Captain America clearly wanted to do everything his way and didn't care about what Cyclops had to say. If Cap really intended to bring her unharmed he wouldn't have brought a plane full of avengers with him. (I don't blame cap for this, I blame bad writing). Technically he made Utopia so mutants wouldn't have to follow their laws. Really after the way mutants have been treated why should they? And that's the big problem. Captain America acted like his word was law. The avengers really were like its OUR world, not yours.

#31 Posted by Strider92 (16823 posts) - - Show Bio

Cuz Cyclops was wrong.

#32 Posted by Prototypehydra (66 posts) - - Show Bio

Because no one really likes Cyclops, especially in recent times.

#33 Posted by Wolverine08 (45538 posts) - - Show Bio

Jimmies rustled.

#34 Edited by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: Scott is a reasonable person. It's hard to be reasonable when someone walks onto your doorstep and demands a young mutant who's under your care for who the hell knows what. Also, when did Scott ever say anything of the sort?

@dernman: and I'm saying that the PF's influence is the only defense he needs. Again, Xavier tried killing Scott and Scott took him out. How do you know he intended on killing him? Regarding the Avengers. Rather than talking to Scott about the PF and Hope and discussing their plan, they just decide to go to Scott's home and demand Hope, a mutant, with no explanation of what they plan on doing. When the Phoenix Five is born, rather than reasoning with them, the Avengers just decide to attack them. Fact is that Captain America doesn't like to talk. He prefers to make demands and give ultimatums.

#35 Edited by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@outside_85: Scott is a reasonable person. It's hard to be reasonable when someone walks onto your doorstep and demands a young mutant who's under your care for who the hell knows what. Also, when did Scott ever say anything of the sort?

When he and the others declared war illegal, superseded the authority of everyone in the UN and branded the Avengers as outlaws.

And really, out of all the people in Marvel, Scott Summers, who has seen the Phoenix go bad up close and personal, he of all people should have known the Phoenix coming back would only lead to death and disaster. But apparently the death of Jean wasn't enough to teach him that.

But no, Scott is not a reasonable person any more, and looking at the old Claremont comics, I doubt he ever was.

#36 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34910 posts) - - Show Bio

@youmessinwithme: she still wiped out most of a race regardless if she killed them or not.

#37 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: He never declared himself the leader of the world though. With war and world hunger no longer existent, the UN no longer has a reason to exist. The Avengers aimlessly attacked Scott for no reason. He could have ended them. Scott thought the Phoenix could be controlled. Perhaps the Avengers thought the same thing, except to serve their own interests.

#38 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34910 posts) - - Show Bio

Anyway it's all Iron Man's fault

#39 Posted by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: He did when he set himself up as the ultimate authority, he was going to decide if people were allowed to disagree with each other to the point of them wanting to fight. And of Scott really thought that, then Scott is not a very bright individual, especially if he thought he could do better than an omega-level telepath predestined to be the host.

And no, the Avengers didn't, they wanted the Phoenix away from Earth.

#40 Posted by movieartman (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@sentryman555:

1.) He intended to bring HER in unharmed he brought avengers to face the mutants that want to try and stop them and possibly cause the world to be destroyed out of there selfishness. The firebird was consuming planets killing billions of living beings on its way here, who gives a f--k what cyclops thinks.

2.) if he wanted utopia to be exempt from American laws her should have taken it the f--k out of San fransisco harbor and in to international waters at the very least. That be like having a home in the middle of Texas and declaring it ungorverned by the law

3.) who gives him the f--King right to make themselves expempt from the law anyway?

IT DOESN'T BLOODY MATTER HOW THEY HAVE BEEN TREATED THEY ARE STILL ACOUNTABLE FOR THERE ACTIONS AND STI CAN NOT BE ALLOWED TO HARM OTHERS.

What do you thinks black people shouldn't go to jail when they commit murder or manslaughter just cus they used to be slaves?

Who is going to check up on them?

Who is going to make sure there not doing anything that Could harm the planet and humanity

WHO IS GOING TO KEEP THEM FROM SUMMONING A FIRE BIRD OF COSMIC DEATH?

4.) caps word is law, the president and shield have him full jurisdiction and athority to do his damn job

#41 Posted by movieartman (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous:

Yeeeaaaah cus loosing there powers and being human is worse than death (roles eyes)

#42 Posted by ImpurestCheese (6021 posts) - - Show Bio

History is written by the victor. As the Avengers 'won' the enemy leader (Cyclops) would be in dire crud simply because he was the enemy. Look through history and you'll see example be it Boudica blamed for casualties of the Roman crackdown in Ancient Briton, the Aztecs barbarity and savagery as described by the victorious Conquistadors or Kaiser Wilhelm and Germany being blamed for the First World War. The fact is Cyclops no matter what his intent, actions and morality suggest lost A vs X and now ,as a human being bound by law, he has to pay for it.

#43 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: He intended on having the Phoenix possess Hope, but he also wanted to use it to rebuild mutant-kind. If the Avengers rocketed Hope into space, what makes them think the PF won't just destroy the Earth on its way to Hope? You have your opinion and I have mine. Maybe you're right and maybe I am, but this is getting tiring. Let's agree to disagree. This can go on forever.

#44 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34910 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous:

Yeeeaaaah cus loosing there powers and being human is worse than death (roles eyes)

Wow douche much? I didn't even say that.

#45 Posted by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: Then let me close with this question: Did Scott ever ask Hope if she wanted to be possessed by this thing? And if not, what right does he have to decided what she should or shouldn't risk?

#46 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: There's nothing that could stop the Phoenix Force from possessing her. Whether she wanted to or not was irrelevant. What happens after she gets possessed is what matters.

#47 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

Because the story needs narrative tension and in the never-ending serial format with rotating writers you sometimes have to retread old ground or reset character arcs.

#48 Posted by w0nd (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

@movieartman said:

@jonny_anonymous:

Yeeeaaaah cus loosing there powers and being human is worse than death (roles eyes)

Wow douche much? I didn't even say that.

how many of them lost their powers mid flight or under water lol... I am sure a large scale lost their powers, while doing something with them that ended up lethal. Blob didnt become skinny he became silly putty. Some of these mutants didnt end up better off...

#49 Edited by Outside_85 (10233 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@outside_85: There's nothing that could stop the Phoenix Force from possessing her. Whether she wanted to or not was irrelevant. What happens after she gets possessed is what matters.

It does matter that Scott more or less was going to offer her to it.

#50 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: And the Avengers planned on shooting her into space. This isn't a matter of who's right and wrong. No one is right. Then again, this started from an argument as to whether Scott is innocent or guilty.