Every time i see topic of Superman Vs Batman in Dark Knight Returns come up , fans always say Batman beat Superman but is why is that people forget that it was Green Arrow who really made the big difference?
The whole fight even when Superman was holding back , Batman was getting stomped , all his prep & plans didn't anything to put Superman down then and when army was about snipe Batman off it was Oliver who came and distracted them & fired the Kryptonite Arrow which actually put Superman down and Batman just throwed in few punches & claimed "I am the Man who beat you!" then ended up getting heart attack.
Why is that Batman fans always trying to take away Oliver's big credit in the fight when it was him who truly beat Superman . It should be Green Arrow & Batman beat Superman not just Batman who with his failed plans single handedly beat the Boyscout.
Why Green Arrow never gets credit for beating Superman?
fanboy logic: batmans plan = batman beat him. he can prep a win anywhere cuz he's the goddamn batman.
fanboy logic: batmans plan = batman beat him. he can prep a win anywhere cuz he's the goddamn batman.
fanboy logic: batmans plan = batman beat him. he can prep a win anywhere cuz he's the goddamn batman.
Well, if the plan was conceived by Batman and it did beat him, then it's true right?
@johnni_kun: Not really, no. Because if Green Arrow had just gone home that day, then Batman would have been taken into custody, right?
It was his plan, and he was actually right there facing Supes while Oliver was at a distance, I'm not saying he doesn't deserved credit but, saying he ''truly beat Superman'' is a bit much.
When a soldier kills a man, who do you credit? The man who fired the gun, or the bullet which actually kills the target?
Green Arrow may have delivered the final blow, but he only could have, he was only in that position where he was able to fire that shot because of Batman's plan. Batman prepared, aimed, and fired the bullet that was Green Arrow equipped with a kryptonite arrow. Green Arrow just did what he does as a clog in the Bat-plan machine.
@jonsmith: Except a bullet cant just up and leave on its own freewill. And a Bullet doesnt aim itself, but if Green Arrow had missed he, not Batman would have been responsible for it. Just like he is responsible for actually hitting Supes.
Every time i see topic of Superman Vs Batman in Dark Knight Returns come up , fans always say Batman beat Superman but is why is that people forget that it was Green Arrow who really made the big difference?
The whole fight even when Superman was holding back , Batman was getting stomped , all his prep & plans didn't anything to put Superman down then and when army was about snipe Batman off it was
Oliver who came and distracted them & fired the Kryptonite Arrow
which actually put Superman down and Batman just throwed in few punches & claimed "I am the Man who beat you!" then ended up getting heart attack.
Why is that Batman fans always trying to take away Oliver's big credit in the fight when it was him who truly beat Superman . It should be Green Arrow & Batman beat Superman not just Batman who with his failed plans single handedly beat the Boyscout.
Its because Bat fan boys are loud and any time you attempt to give GA due credit they scream and cry until you're fed up with their bs to the point where you become temporarily disgusted with yourself for liking any Batman stories because it means you have something in common with them so we just give up.
@johnni_kun: Not really, no. Because if Green Arrow had just gone home that day, then Batman would have been taken into custody, right?
But, he didn't and Batman plan was successful. If someone devises a plan that wins a war, doesn't he deserve credit? I not sure that it should be all. But, if he was the real reason for the win...... . his credit should be quite substantial.
I don't like the Batfanboy excuse, it's too lazy of a response.
@johnni_kun: But its the correct response. Batfanboys can only hype Batman, they cannot look at anything Batman related critically.
But anyway, this wasnt a war, and honestly, Batman didnt have a really complex plan, his plan was literally "Make myself as strong and durable as possible. Rely on Superman not just instantly KOing me. Have Green Arrow actually stop Superman, punch Superman a few times and deliver a one liner".
If his plan had all kinds of complex parts, it would be more debatable, but his plan was so basic, that we can easily dissect it and say, Bruce literally didnt need to be there at all. Because of Superman's portrayal in that book (stupid and a boyscout), they could have just had Green Arrow walk up to him with the K-Nite powder in his pocket, and then Bats could run up and kick him while he was down, and say "I Win!"
Basically, the only part of that fight that made any difference was Green Arrow's arrow.
@johnni_kun: I will agree that Batman deserves most of the credit in this instance, the arguments I was referring to are the instances where the fan boys freak out if you give GA any credit at all. Like Batman was doing him a favor just allowing him to be there. They all forget that he still managed to evade capture and fire off an incredible bow shot literally one handed. (He only had one arm in TDKR) Sure it wasn't the whole plan but it was a pretty damn important part of it and if he hadn't been there maybe it goes down the same or maybe it doesn't we can't know but the point is GA deserves some of the credit.
Let ignore the fact that green arrow asked Batman to throw the kryptonite arrow to Superman and the fact that Batman had an helicopter smart enough to auto shoot were it would distract the enemies and the fact that the same helicopter that can become invisible.
@deaditegonzo: Lol nice mental image of a bullet just leaving after fired from a gun. Bullet- "Lol nope!"
You know how the Generals come up with "plans" to win a certain fight, and when they win they get the "credit" instead of those hundreds of soldiers the general used? It's a whole lot like that, the mastermind gets all the credit, so stop bitching about Batman, we've heard it a hundred times. If anything Green Arrow deserves some credit, but he's not the one who beat Superman.
Just to throw this in, it's a poem of some sorts that I learned in English, so please take some time and read this. It kinda relates.
Holy War by Hugh Hodge
Here is the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here are the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here are the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Just Law enacted
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Government,
That enacted the Just Law,
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the President,
Who headed the Government,
That enacted the Just Law,
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Rational Policy,
That informed the President,
Who headed the Government,
That enacted the Just Law,
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Holy War,
Stoked by Rational Policy,
That informed the President,
Who headed the Government,
That enacted the Just Law,
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the True Belief,
That ignited Holy War,
Stoked by Rational Policy,
That informed the President,
Who headed the Government,
That enacted the Just Law,
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the Faith,
That kindled True Belief,
That ignited Holy War,
Stoked by Rational Policy,
That informed the President,
Who headed the Government,
That enacted the Just Law,
On behalf of the Citizens,
Who paid the Taxes,
That provided the Money,
That built the Army,
Led by the General,
Who commanded the Colonel,
Who trained the Lieutenant,
Who ordered the Sergeant,
Who pulled the Trigger,
That fired the Bullet,
That killed the Father,
Who loved the Mother,
Who bore the Son,
Strong and Tall.
Here is the God who wept.
Batman is more marketable.
because neither of them beat him, Batman kicked him in the chin and then faked his own death before Superman could rip him apart.
It was all Batman's plan. Green Arrow might not even have been needed.
This. If I recall Green Arrow begged to be apart of it lol.
It was all Batman's plan. Green Arrow might not even have been needed.
This. If I recall Green Arrow begged to be apart of it lol.
Yeah, 'cause Superman tore his arm off or something. Batman felt bad and wanted to let GA have some revenge. Ollie should get some credit for helping IMO, but that's the reasoning.
Although I agree with someone above that together they didn't "beat" Superman.
????
Well mostly because Green Arrow, was only there because Green Arrow asked Batman to be there. Batman was already prepping to fight Superman to fight Green Arrow, but Ollie also wanted a piece of Superman because of some reason. Batman let him join the plan as a favor not because he needed him. It would be different if Batman went out to look for Ollie like Luthor did to Batman in Red Son.
It was all Batman's plan. Green Arrow might not even have been needed.
This. If I recall Green Arrow begged to be apart of it lol.
Yeah, 'cause Superman tore his arm off or something. Batman felt bad and wanted to let GA have some revenge. Ollie should get some credit for helping IMO, but that's the reasoning.
Although I agree with someone above that together they didn't "beat" Superman.
????
About beating Superman? Well... probably wrong thread.
Lol Ya....but Batman destroyed him and GA helped :P
@ultrastarkiller: *huffs angrily*
FINE! But just because I don't want to derail the thread!
*Victory Dance*
I understand.
Because all he did was shoot an arrow. He wasn't even nessecary.
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