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#1 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

You know how almost every Alternate Reality and Elsworld Superman turns evil like Injustice, Earth 2, Earth Prime and to some extent Kingdom Come and Red Son. Well why hasn't there been any about Batman going rogue and manipulating world events from behind the scenes or something?

#2 Edited by jwalser3 (5279 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Batman is that small resistance symbol. The David vs. Goliath kind of thing. At least that's how I see it.

#3 Posted by youknowwhattodo (1544 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the main reason would be that he wouldn't be seen as much of a threat as an evil Superman or other super-powered characters. Let's be honest, if he were to turn evil and the rest of the JL didn't follow him.....the story would be really short because he would get stopped very quickly unless the writers give him plot devices to give him the upper hand. To be honest, I wouldn't want to read about it because I have a feeling it would be like Tower of Babel but replace Ra's with Batman and I'm really not interested in reading that.

I do think that a rogue Batman story where the Batfamily has to stop him would be a great read though.

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#4 Posted by w0nd (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Closest thing I can think of...superman/batman 53-56, but you're right he hasn't really become a dictator or anything. Never noticed

#5 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: But he's been portrayed as that for soooooooo long now there needs to be a different take on him some time

I think the main reason would be that he wouldn't be seen as much of a threat as an evil Superman or other super-powered characters. Let's be honest, if he were to turn evil and the rest of the JL didn't follow him.....the story would be really short because he would get stopped very quickly unless the writers give him plot devices to give him the upper hand. To be honest, I wouldn't want to read about it because I have a feeling it would be like Tower of Babel but replace Ra's with Batman and I'm really not interested in reading that.

I do think that a rogue Batman story where the Batfamily has to stop him would be a great read though.

Your thinking about it wrong, a rogue Batman wouldn't take on the heroes like Superman always ends up doing he'd manipulate them into fighting each other or by turning the government against them. I think a story where you don't actually know Batman was the bad guy up until the very end when it turns out he was the man playing puppet master the whole time.

#6 Posted by Strongarm (5857 posts) - - Show Bio

Read Nemesis

#7 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by RustyRoy (13825 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwalser3: But he's been portrayed as that for soooooooo long now there needs to be a different take on him some time

Your thinking about it wrong, a rogue Batman wouldn't take on the heroes like Superman always ends up doing he'd manipulate them into fighting each other or by turning the government against them. I think a story where you don't actually know Batman was the bad guy up until the very end when it turns out he was the man playing puppet master the whole time.

I completely agree. Its time for a new take.

When I imagine a evil Batman I think him as a more dangerous version of Ozymandias. If someone writes it like you explained then it could be a good and believable story. And maybe that's why nobody has written him as a bad guy, if he becomes evil then evil wins lol.

#9 Edited by MaccyD (5108 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

@maccyd: That shouldn't matter though

#11 Posted by Deadgod (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman have been evil in Earth 10, Earth 43 , All-Star Batman (yes you can also count it), Red Son , Batman Chronicles 11 & my personal favorite Evil Batman is in Red Rain & its later sequels where he turns into a vampire & goes around killing Dracula, Scarecrow, Joker, Poison Ivy, Riddler, Penguin, Black Mask & every single villain in his rogue gallery & cleans entire Gotham & also kills many of Arkham inmates just for being criminal in a awesome way until he's finally killed by the vampire hunting team of Alfred,Jim Gordon ,Two-Face & Killer Croc.

#12 Posted by War Killer (20285 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Owlman an alternate version of Batman? He's evil and a criminal mastermind.

#13 Posted by The_Deathstroker (8023 posts) - - Show Bio

Owlman

#14 Posted by ColaNicole (611 posts) - - Show Bio

Isn't Owlman an alternate version of Batman? He's evil and a criminal mastermind.

But Owlman couldn't run things on his own. Not with Ultraman at least.

#15 Posted by Thitiki (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

Owlman is pretty much it. If Batman goes rogue he isn't going to be dominating the whole world and defeating every hero that would just be ridiculous he isn't that great. If he is evil he'll need a team to back him up.

#16 Edited by Deadgod (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahh just remembered Batman also turned evil in Superman/Batman 53-56 where Superman due to a magic amulet gets his powers switched with Batman where Supes turns into a mere human & Bats turns into super insane & starts to get into dictator mode on criminals, beats Nightwing to near death , takes down entire Justice League by himself until he finally gets taken down by powerless Superman & Zatanna

#17 Posted by SuperStar_sketcher (1558 posts) - - Show Bio

Cause hes the Goddamn batman!

#18 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadgod: Killing =/= evil

Isn't Owlman an alternate version of Batman? He's evil and a criminal mastermind.

Owlman

@war_killer said:

Isn't Owlman an alternate version of Batman? He's evil and a criminal mastermind.

But Owlman couldn't run things on his own. Not with Ultraman at least.

@thitiki said:

Owlman is pretty much it. If Batman goes rogue he isn't going to be dominating the whole world and defeating every hero that would just be ridiculous he isn't that great. If he is evil he'll need a team to back him up.

Owlman isn't a rogue Batman, he started out evil and everybody from that earth is evil anyway.

#19 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13612 posts) - - Show Bio

Do Jason, azbats, and Titans tommorow Tim Drake count

#20 Posted by Thitiki (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: I know just pointing it out. If Batman went rogue it's not like he is going to end up like Injustice Superman and rule the nation.

#21 Posted by War Killer (20285 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Point taken on Owlman, but what about Justice Lord Batman from the DCAU? He and the Justice League from his world were just like the DCAU versions, until the Flash was killed which caused them to become the Justice Lords. He, along with the other Justice Lords, became dictators who ruled the world with an iron fist and Batman even manged to clean up Gotham of all crime by enforcing crazy-strict laws, such as arresting people simply for complaining about the bill for their meals.

Would that count as a "Rogue Batman?"

Justice Lord Batman

#22 Edited by Black_Claw (3073 posts) - - Show Bio

OP have you even read All Star Batman and Robin?

#23 Posted by Kairan1979 (16926 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Edited by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

@war_killer: Hmm I suppose it would also that Batsuit is baller.

@thitiki said:

@jonny_anonymous: I know just pointing it out. If Batman went rogue it's not like he is going to end up like Injustice Superman and rule the nation.

Yea but like I said before Batman wouldn't openly take on the heroes, he'd manipulate from behind the scenes and turn them against each other or manipulate the govermeant into doing it for them.

#25 Edited by Thitiki (4325 posts) - - Show Bio
#26 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Posted by Thitiki (4325 posts) - - Show Bio

@thitiki: enforcing what?

You said above manipulating the government and heroes but Ican't see him keeping that rule.

#28 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like a 'rogue' Batman would be one that takes Ra's Al Ghul's place as head of the Assassins

#29 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (12580 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman of Earth 51 was kind of rogue. He went around killing all of the villains to create a perfect world.

#30 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio

@arturocalakayvee: Yea but I don't see that as rogue because he's still doing "good"

#31 Posted by Jayc1324 (13374 posts) - - Show Bio

Well batman doesn't need a team behind him to control everybody. He just need to plan it all out and stay behind the scenes. And that would make a great story. Seeing all the heroes and maybe even some villians flustered at what's going on and then eventually having batman makes them all fight and then take over. But not in new 52, in an elseworlds or alternate timeline story

#32 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12580 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Edited by ccraft (5559 posts) - - Show Bio

I have contemplated a rogue Batman for a long time, I think it would be a cool story.

1. Batman needs a goal, it can't be just power or money he's after, revenge really suits him. Besides he already has money and influence.

2. Batman will need some strong heroes or villains with him, as his "muscle".

3...

It would be cool to see Batman secretly take over LoA, and have to convince the world the JL aren't good guys anymore.

I gtg I'll be back to post more.

#34 Posted by Onemoreposter (4099 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Superman/Batman: Absolute Power. Both Superman and Batman become world dictators. It's a really fun story by Jeph Loeb.

#35 Posted by ZhuRong (4728 posts) - - Show Bio

If he goes rogue then everyone around him and in his path will be dead

#36 Edited by deaditegonzo (3690 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wank. Basically Batfanboys are writing Batman Fan Fiction and selling it as official stories these days.

#37 Edited by ccraft (5559 posts) - - Show Bio

@deaditegonzo: Next 20 years when Batmanfanboys become writers these stories will be canon lol, then what?

#38 Posted by deaditegonzo (3690 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

@deaditegonzo: Next 20 years when Batmanfanboys become writers these stories will be canon lol, then what?

Oh, Batman power creep will continue to get worse and worse, unless like every "Most Popular hero" before him, he loses his throne.

#39 Edited by ccraft (5559 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1308 posts) - - Show Bio

You know how almost every Alternate Reality and Elsworld Superman turns evil like Injustice, Earth 2, Earth Prime and to some extent Kingdom Come and Red Son. Well why hasn't there been any about Batman going rogue and manipulating world events from behind the scenes or something?

Its due to the fact that in Cannon Batman has already endured a ridicules amount of tragedy and has still managed to retain his moral compass. Else worlds are largely based on "what if" scenarios and the fact that Batman has already endured so much in cannon and avoided going bad prevents the writers from creating believable scenarios where he crosses the line in elseworlds. Superman on the other hand has not experienced too much tragedy in cannon, this gives writers the opportunity to speculate as to how he would react to great loss. A good example of this is in Injustice.

On a side note, seeing Batman assume an Ozymandias type role would be pretty cool.

Batman wank. Basically Batfanboys are writing Batman Fan Fiction and selling it as official stories these days.

You sound a tad upset.

#41 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34908 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by Mediocregeist (681 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it's generally the fact that Superman is basically the Shining Knight/Boy Scout archetype of fiction, so stories where he becomes evil provide much more contrast.

#43 Posted by JetiiMitra (8870 posts) - - Show Bio

He's infallible.

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#44 Edited by THEOCITYLEGEND (1308 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by dagmar_merrill (10238 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Superman/Batman: Absolute Power. Both Superman and Batman become world dictators. It's a really fun story by Jeph Loeb.

People don't get to say that a lot. :P

#46 Posted by Onemoreposter (4099 posts) - - Show Bio

@onemoreposter said:

@jonny_anonymous: Superman/Batman: Absolute Power. Both Superman and Batman become world dictators. It's a really fun story by Jeph Loeb.

People don't get to say that a lot. :P

I do. Superman/Batman 1-26. Long Halloween. Dark Victory. His run on Superman. Superman for All Seasons. Emperor Joker. Hell, in retrospect, I even really enjoy Ultimatum. ( special mention to the his series of "Superhero: Color" mini-series' he did for Marvel with Tim Sale. They weren't great, but they were good if you enjoy Sale)

Jeph Loeb get's dogged on this site, but coupled with McGuiness or Sale the man is a power house. On any day of the week he's a good comic book writer.

#47 Posted by RustyRoy (13825 posts) - - Show Bio

@dagmar_merrill said:

@onemoreposter said:

@jonny_anonymous: Superman/Batman: Absolute Power. Both Superman and Batman become world dictators. It's a really fun story by Jeph Loeb.

People don't get to say that a lot. :P

I do. Superman/Batman 1-26. Long Halloween. Dark Victory. His run on Superman. Superman for All Seasons. Emperor Joker. Hell, in retrospect, I even really enjoy Ultimatum. ( special mention to the his series of "Superhero: Color" mini-series' he did for Marvel with Tim Sale. They weren't great, but they were good if you enjoy Sale)

Jeph Loeb get's dogged on this site, but coupled with McGuiness or Sale the man is a power house. On any day of the week he's a good comic book writer.

Me too. And Hush too, I think most people will agree that Hush was pretty good, it even won the favorite Batman story in CV.

@jonny_anonymous said:

You know how almost every Alternate Reality and Elsworld Superman turns evil like Injustice, Earth 2, Earth Prime and to some extent Kingdom Come and Red Son. Well why hasn't there been any about Batman going rogue and manipulating world events from behind the scenes or something?

Its due to the fact that in Cannon Batman has already endured a ridicules amount of tragedy and has still managed to retain his moral compass. Else worlds are largely based on "what if" scenarios and the fact that Batman has already endured so much in cannon and avoided going bad prevents the writers from creating believable scenarios where he crosses the line in elseworlds. Superman on the other hand has not experienced too much tragedy in cannon, this gives writers the opportunity to speculate as to how he would react to great loss. A good example of this is in Injustice.

On a side note, seeing Batman assume an Ozymandias type role would be pretty cool.

That is a good point.

Batman wank. Basically Batfanboys are writing Batman Fan Fiction and selling it as official stories these days.

Superman got his fair share of Superfanboy writers writing Superman fanfiction selling it as official stories.

#48 Posted by Onemoreposter (4099 posts) - - Show Bio

@rustyroy: Forgot about Hush. Yeah that was great. The story did get a bit convoluted at times. Loeb gave us a bit much to swallow at the end when he tied everything together at the end. His characterizations were great though. I think that's where he really excels and I think that's also why he upsets alot of people. Loeb might sometimes use characters in ways the fans don't feel that character should be used, but within the confines of the story itself the interactions feel completely organic. Also, the book was hands down (IMO) some of the best artwork Lee ever has done or ever will do.

#49 Posted by PapiNacho (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

Because he doesn't like Captain Cold.

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#50 Edited by RustyRoy (13825 posts) - - Show Bio

@onemoreposter: Yeah, his characterization and character interactions are better than his plots.